|
Thank You / Thank You / Thank YOU VERY MUCH!
I can make a loop out of some copper tube and I can use a old piece of RG 8 for the stub match and I have enough aluminum tube from another Ringo to make the mast 18' long..... All I need to do now is take down what I have and modify it and put it back up. THANK YOU! Dummy ME! - I could have bought a used antenna analyzer at a hamfest today for $50.00 - MFJ that had no digital display and no UHF and NO POWER SUPPLY and no instructions. I was told that I could have used it with a transceiver, turn the knob until it zero beats the frequency of the receiver and then use it to tune the antenna. I probably messed up! Then again - if it was $50.00 and didn't work and could not be repaired - it would have been $50.00 that could have been applied towards another antenna. This is what happens when you try to help someone and when you try to give something away to a friend.. It always happens that something is not right and that when it does not work as intended - even if several years later - I end up being the bad guy. In fact - the Ringo listens real well - it just doesn't transmit - because the impedance / reactance is wrong. I could have bought a good antenna analyzer last year for $85.00 and did not because a friend of mine wanted it and bought it for $65.00 I'm learning that amateur radio is a lot like stock car racing. The only friends you have is the ones you brought to the track with you! Once the Green flag falls - all agreements are off and it is a free for all. |
Ringo Ranger Problems
On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:03:05 PM UTC-4, Channel Jumper wrote:
Ok, so a friend of mine died, and at his SK auction, I picked up about 6 antenna's for about $10 each. Some were good and some were not so good... I have a real friend who repairs my computer for free and he is into the CB radio. I cannot get him to study and get his amateur radio license and I wanted to get him involved in some type of radio - with the hopes that when he see's how much the CB radio sucks - he would want to study and take the test and get his license and quit fooling around with the CB radio... His best friend drives truck for the DOT and is a garbage man on the side. They had boxes of old CB radios, and I found a couple that still put out about 3 watts AM with good modulation. The person my friend bought his computer shop from was an Amateur Radio Operator. He gave the guy a 48' piece of RG-8 coax and 30' of tower. The tower was bent and no one wanted it - even though it was not rusted or damaged in any other way. So to help him out, I gave him the Ringo Ranger so he would at least have an outdoors antenna to play with. I know a Ringo Ranger is a dummy load - no one has to explain it to me. But at my house with 120' of Belden 9913F7 - up about 28' off the ground, with ground radials, I was able to compare it to my Solorcon A99 - which is tuned for 10 meters. The Ringo was about 1 or 2 S units less noisy and I was able to talk on 10 meters to a fellow in the Neatherlands with no problems. So I gave him the antenna, told him to wait until I got there to help put it together and tune it. When I got there, he already had it on top of the tower and was playing with it. The VSWR read 5:1 on channel 19 We tried changing the strap match on the ring and it got down to about 3:1 after we changed the match and the length a couple of times. So after a hearty supper - 4 hours after starting this fiasco, we took it down, put it on a piece of pipe out in the yard. Took a second Ringo Ranger and combined the two - to make it 11'6 long. Origionally it was around 9' I got the match down flat to about 2:1 everywhere from channel 1 to 40! That is as low as it would go. I checked the coax and there was no shorts and I used a coax calculator and even with a .66 velocity factor - the brand and type is unknown - and I didn't have a working computer at the site - the length for a piece of coax in multiples of half wavelengths would only be somewhere in the neighborhood of being 2 feet less then what the coax is. Which isn't a big deal, except that he plans on adding another 20' of tower, sometime in the future. I could give him my old Solorcon A99 and put up my new Solorcon A99 - but I am afraid that if I give away my good antenna, I might have some problems with the Solorcon... I do not have an antenna analyzer - but I could borrow one.. Yesterday was an exception - because it was a holiday and no one was around to ask if I could borrow theirs. I know the Ringo needs ground radials and I am working on doing that for him also. But I am wondering - if there might be another solution to the problem... I think 11'6 is somewhere around .33 of one wavelength on channel 19.... I usually don't ask these kinds of questions - because usually I have the answer... If a person had more then 3 watts - loosing half of it between the coax and the antenna mis match wouldn't be a problem... As it is - he doesn't have a working home phone and I can't call him and he doesn't have internet so I can't email him and there is a hill between his place and my place - about 7 miles away - max and I can't hear him.... His mobile also has a 3:1 mismatch and he put a 104 inch whip on it and is able to talk about half way between his house and my house with his mobile - on the side of a jeep about 3' off the ground... I have a legal 4 watt CB radio - which normally talks about 12 miles in all directions. I am looking for idea's on how to make the Ringo better - if that is possible. Maybe possible lengths to try - only I am afraid that if it gets too long - it will fall apart. The base is already wobbly from taking it up and down the tower 25 times last night. I don't know if there is a way to tighten the base to the first section of antenna. I would be willing to try to make it 18' long if that would be an improvement. Any idea's? -- Channel Jumper Hey OM. These antennas are pretty simple, The instructions are on the web. Check the instructions against what you have and you should be able to get them to work by putting them together or making repairs. One is as easy as the other. Jimmie |
Ringo Ranger Problems
On 9/9/2012 7:36 PM, Channel Jumper wrote:
I could have bought a good antenna analyzer last year for $85.00 and did not because a friend of mine wanted it and bought it for $65.00 I think they are overrated.. I've never needed or owned one so far.. |
Ringo Ranger Problems
In article , NM5K wrote:
On 9/9/2012 7:36 PM, Channel Jumper wrote: I could have bought a good antenna analyzer last year for $85.00 and did not because a friend of mine wanted it and bought it for $65.00 I think they are overrated.. I've never needed or owned one so far.. I had a plain Two Meter Ringo back in the 70s, before they came out with the "Ranger" versions. It worked well, but gain claimed was probably DBi rather than DBd. I also have three generations of MFJ antenna analyzers. I don't know if they are overrated, but they are very handy. They save a lot of time compared to using a transmitter and SWR bridge to set up an antenna. As I understand it, they work just like the typical "reflectometer" SWR bridge where you set forward power to full scale and read reflected power on an SWR scale. Their VFO has its output held constant over the frequency range, calibrated for the equivalent of the SWR bridge's full scale setting. The early version Channel Jumper mentioned, probably had a frequency scale printed on the face. For critical settings, either a counter or a calibrated receiver would be needed. Later versions have a counter built-in, and the latest also displays antenna data on the LCD display. Fred K4DII |
Quote:
With a digital display it is as simple as putting the antenna together on the ground, sticking it on a pole someplace, using a feed line that is as short as possible - less then 1/4 wavelength is desireable when possible - I know at higher frequencies this is hard to do. Turning on the Analyzer and reading the input. Using a old style analyzer isn't as simple when you do not know the exact frequency you are tuning to... So in the long run - I probably saved myself $40 - $50.00 A stub match question I forgot to ask is - should the end of the stub match at 1' 8 inches long be shorted on the end or open... The web calculator I used said the Stub would be short if it was shorted and would be long if it was not - but that if it was not shorted you run the risk of the stub trying to radiate the power applied... http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Impedance_...e_Matching.pdf |
Another broadband matching approach may use a tapered line transformer with continuously varying
characteristic impedance along its length (characteristic impedance varies continuously in a smooth fashion). In this case, the design obtains reflection coefficients lower than a specified tolerance at frequencies exceeding a minimum value. · The required length of the taper section should be about 0.5 to 1.5 of wavelength. A different narrow-band approach involves the insertion of a shunt imaginary admittance on the line. Often, the admittance is realized with a section (or stub) of transmission line and the technique is commonly known as stub matching. The end of the stub line is short-circuited or open-circuited, in order to realize an imaginary admittance. A second narrow-band example involves the insertion of series impedance (stub) along the line. |
Ringo Ranger Problems
On 9/10/2012 1:46 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:
In article , NM5K wrote: On 9/9/2012 7:36 PM, Channel Jumper wrote: I could have bought a good antenna analyzer last year for $85.00 and did not because a friend of mine wanted it and bought it for $65.00 I think they are overrated.. I've never needed or owned one so far.. I had a plain Two Meter Ringo back in the 70s, before they came out with the "Ranger" versions. It worked well, but gain claimed was probably DBi rather than DBd. If they rated a ringo using dbd, it would be zero.. Which doesn't look too good in the ad's.. :| So they use dbi to make for manlier gain figures.. I also have three generations of MFJ antenna analyzers. I don't know if they are overrated, but they are very handy. They save a lot of time compared to using a transmitter and SWR bridge to set up an antenna. Dunno, I'm pretty danged fast using just an SWR meter. But I already know what to expect, how to quickly know if I'm long or short, etc.. All the analyzers do for me is verify what I already know from looking at the SWR meter, which in my case is built into the radio, assuming I'm on the Icom. :/ I like not having to carry extra gadgets.. |
Ringo Ranger Problems
On 9/10/2012 3:06 PM, Channel Jumper wrote:
A stub match question I forgot to ask is - should the end of the stub match at 1' 8 inches long be shorted on the end or open... Open. It's being used purely as a capacitor. |
Being Long or Short is not the problem - if it was simple vertical with a ground plane with no loading coil - like a whip on a automobile - yes - you would be right.
But when dealing with a Ringo - which uses a ring to adjust the capacitive / inductive and also uses a tuning stub match - each part of the antenna works against each other.. Even now, the antenna on the VSWR Bridge shows a 2:1 match! But I figure the Ring is probably 9 inches too shot - if the ring is 7.5 inches in diameter and needs to be 10 and the stub is too short - if it needs to be 18 inches long and is only 6.... The Antenna Analyzer would tell me the Resistive / Reactive components and all I would have to do is match them and it would work on any one frequency. This is the problem with the Ringo - why it is not broad banded. The main use where I live was by people who were installers of LMRS equipment that sold them along with a radio to fire companies and ambulances.... |
Ringo Ranger Problems
"NM5K" wrote in message ... If they rated a ringo using dbd, it would be zero.. Which doesn't look too good in the ad's.. :| So they use dbi to make for manlier gain figures.. I think CC just pulled numbers out of the air. Especially in the eairly days. Just looking at an old ad from 1974. They rate the 2 meter Ringo at 3.75 db gain. No refferance as to what. Also the 11 element was rated at 13.2 db of gain. The only antenna that does make sense is the 4 bay dipole with up to 9 db of gain. Atleast if you put all the dipoles on one side, it could have almost 9 db of gain over a dipole. I did compair two differant 220 mhz 11 element beams to an 8 element quagi I built from plans in the ARRL Handbook. The quagi was much beter than either of the 11 element CC antennas. The antennas were put on a 30 foot push up pole so it was easy to change and compair them. Most of the testing was to a repeater about 40 miles away, but the results were the same on other signals. Common joke was the CC stuff was compaired to the Heathkit Cantenna in terms of db gain. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:02 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com