Home made antenna question??
 

I want to build a home made omni for use on tower.

I want to feed it with coax and have lot of wire, copper pipe, tubing, basic
parts.

I have a pretty good tuner and will use the tuner to tune. Can anyone make a
recommendation as to how to make a not so complicated omni directional
antenna that practical?

I am thinking something about 6 to 10 foot in height only, I can make gnd
planes, but something I can tune to get most bands and simply omni function.
I want to get all bands and I run barefoot and just want to get on the air
with simplest, least complicated, easiest to build omni. I don't need a
electronics lesson in engineering design, just a website or two explaining
the simple build of the magical omni fed with coax that is the best I can
get for my situation.

Thanks

73s

Home made antenna question??
 

On 9/24/2012 7:20 AM, Tom wrote:
I want to build a home made omni for use on tower.

I want to feed it with coax and have lot of wire, copper pipe, tubing,
basic parts.

I have a pretty good tuner and will use the tuner to tune. Can anyone
make a recommendation as to how to make a not so complicated omni
directional antenna that practical?

I am thinking something about 6 to 10 foot in height only, I can make
gnd planes, but something I can tune to get most bands and simply omni
function. I want to get all bands and I run barefoot and just want to
get on the air with simplest, least complicated, easiest to build omni.
I don't need a electronics lesson in engineering design, just a website
or two explaining the simple build of the magical omni fed with coax
that is the best I can get for my situation.

Thanks

73s


Use the tower!

KD7HB

You have set yourself up for quite a challenge! Limiting yourself to a length of "6 to 10 feet" is going to be a problem. At ten feet you'll be more-or-less resonant on 10 and 12 meters, and will be able to use the tuner for 15m and (maybe) 20.

Even much longer antennas don't work all bands, although some use coils to improve coverage.

In short, a shorty antenna will not work well on all bands. If you have room, you'd be better off with separate verticals for each of the bands you want to use.

Home made antenna question??
 

I thought of that but there are a bunch of other things on there like TV
antennas, dishes, clothes lines, back yard lights, etc etc. Stunt it, just
wanted to throw up a crazy idea, I know it is a very broad question. What is
the smallest thing I could use with a pretty good tuner? On top the utility
tower?



"Paul Drahn" wrote in message
...
On 9/24/2012 7:20 AM, Tom wrote:
I want to build a home made omni for use on tower.

I want to feed it with coax and have lot of wire, copper pipe, tubing,
basic parts.

I have a pretty good tuner and will use the tuner to tune. Can anyone
make a recommendation as to how to make a not so complicated omni
directional antenna that practical?

I am thinking something about 6 to 10 foot in height only, I can make
gnd planes, but something I can tune to get most bands and simply omni
function. I want to get all bands and I run barefoot and just want to
get on the air with simplest, least complicated, easiest to build omni.
I don't need a electronics lesson in engineering design, just a website
or two explaining the simple build of the magical omni fed with coax
that is the best I can get for my situation.

Thanks

73s


Use the tower!

KD7HB

Home made antenna question??
 

I thought of that but there are a bunch of other things on there like TV
antennas, dishes, clothes lines, back yard lights, etc etc. Stunt it, just
wanted to throw up a crazy idea, I know it is a very broad question. What is
the smallest thing I could use with a pretty good tuner? On top the utility
tower?

How about a car/truck "screwdriver" antenna?

I have a pretty good tuner and will use the tuner to tune.

The combination of a short vertical, a tuner in the shack, and a coax
feed, is not a particularly happy one.

You *may* be able to tune it, in the sense of presenting a load to
your transceiver which won't cause its output section to complain or
leak blue smoke. However, the losses in the tuner, and (particularly)
in the coax feedline, are likely to be very high... you won't get
much signal out, and you may end up with high enough voltages on some
sections of your coaxial feedline to cause arcing (even at "barefoot"
power levels!)

So, the two approaches I can think of which might work would be:

(1) A "screwdriver" antenna or equivalent... a vertical whip (longer
is better) and a remotely-adjustable loading coil.

(2) A vertical whip, and a remote-controlled (or self-controlled)
antenna tuner / transmatch mounted right at the base of the whip.

In either case, you'll probably need to use the tower itself as the
"ground" (counterpoise) for the tuned antenna... plan on running some
heavy, low-impedance braid from the tuner to the antenna mount point.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Home made antenna question??
 

"Tom" wrote in message ...

# I thought of that but there are a bunch of other things on there like TV
# antennas, dishes, clothes lines, back yard lights, etc etc. Stunt it, just
# wanted to throw up a crazy idea, I know it is a very broad question. What
is
# the smallest thing I could use with a pretty good tuner? On top the
utility
# tower?

With an antenna that short, you will need a ground for it to work against.
If you can manage that with guy wires etc., let me relate my recent
experience.

I use a vertical mounted above a metal patio cover, which is about 15x30
feet, roughly 10 feet off the ground. The feedline is 15 feet of RG8 to a
tuner.

Initially, I installed a 9 foot CB whip antenna. It worked quite well on 12
and 10 meters. 17 and 15 meters were hard to match, and marginal contacts
were made on 20 meters.

I replaced that whip with a 14 foot whip. It worked quite well on 20 meters
through 10 meters. I was quite happy with it, but got the bug to experiment
some more.

lastly, I replaced the whip with a 17 foot whip. It works well on 30 meters
through 15 meters, and can be brute force loaded on 40 meters through 10
meters. I don't have much performance info, since the bands have been
stinko for a while.

Both the 9 foot whip and the 14 foot whip did a credible job during the last
set of DX contests, with the 14 foot clearly being better.

In summary, if the antenna is 8-10 feet, I wouldn't count on getting much
performance other than on the higher bands, say 15-10.

Home made antenna question??
 

On 9/24/2012 9:20 AM, Tom wrote:
I want to build a home made omni for use on tower.

I want to feed it with coax and have lot of wire, copper pipe, tubing,
basic parts.

I have a pretty good tuner and will use the tuner to tune. Can anyone
make a recommendation as to how to make a not so complicated omni
directional antenna that practical?

I am thinking something about 6 to 10 foot in height only, I can make
gnd planes, but something I can tune to get most bands and simply omni
function. I want to get all bands and I run barefoot and just want to
get on the air with simplest, least complicated, easiest to build omni.
I don't need a electronics lesson in engineering design, just a website
or two explaining the simple build of the magical omni fed with coax
that is the best I can get for my situation.

Thanks

73s

Have you chosen a frequency you might want to use? That's kind of
important.

tom
K0TAR

Home made antenna question??
 

On Monday, September 24, 2012 8:34:09 PM UTC-5, tom wrote:
Have you chosen a frequency you might want to use? That's kind of
important.

:) I was wondering the same thing. There's a lot of difference between antennas for 4 MHz and 440 MHz.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Home made antenna question??
 

Hi
Thanks for all the info and advice and ideas.

I have the 102 foot dipole up there now, my problem is I just put a TV
antenna HD (two 8 bay bow tie Channelmaster) antennas right above the
dipole's center point (about 1 meter away) and now I am having difficulty
tuning that dipole for anyband. In fact if I try too long the old 1970
transceiver shuts off automatically and scares me that I may have some of
that blue smoke you talked about. So I wanted to get something above it,
omni that would work as well as the dipole did work. Something simple, and
easy becuase nothing up there on the top now.

I think as you folks mentioned the omni fed with coax at short lengths will
be difficult unless it is long enough and with gnd planes, but first wind
storm will bring it down.

I will focus back onto the dipole. Do you think it is too close to the new
TV antennas? Would that cause the innability to tune it where I was able to
before through the manual tuner?

What would be a suitable distance from the center point of that dipole to be
away from anything that would cause such innability to tune. Right now I am
thinking one of the legs of the dipole are fractured and that is the
problem. I don't have a way to test each leg of the dipole, it is about 50
feet of ladder line and then each leg but how do you test from the shack if
there is a fracture without the fancy scopes that you guys have? Other than
bringing each leg down and using ohm meter from one end to the other.

Any comments about having those channel master HD antennas too close to the
center feed point of a dipole? And the havok it can do to an old transceiver
and tuner?

Thanks

73s












"W5DXP" wrote in message
...
On Monday, September 24, 2012 8:34:09 PM UTC-5, tom wrote:
Have you chosen a frequency you might want to use? That's kind of
important.

:) I was wondering the same thing. There's a lot of difference between
antennas for 4 MHz and 440 MHz.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Home made antenna question??
 

I doubt the TV antenna is affecting the dipole. You may have broken the
dipole or feed line when you put up the TV antenna.

Also check to see that you did not put the TV feedline too close to the
dipole feedline. It should be atleast a foot or more from it..


"Tom" wrote in message
...
Hi
Thanks for all the info and advice and ideas.

I have the 102 foot dipole up there now, my problem is I just put a TV
antenna HD (two 8 bay bow tie Channelmaster) antennas right above the
dipole's center point (about 1 meter away) and now I am having difficulty
tuning that dipole for anyband. In fact if I try too long the old 1970
transceiver shuts off automatically and scares me that I may have some of
that blue smoke you talked about. So I wanted to get something above it,
omni that would work as well as the dipole did work. Something simple, and
easy becuase nothing up there on the top now.

I think as you folks mentioned the omni fed with coax at short lengths
will be difficult unless it is long enough and with gnd planes, but first
wind storm will bring it down.

I will focus back onto the dipole. Do you think it is too close to the new
TV antennas? Would that cause the innability to tune it where I was able
to before through the manual tuner?

What would be a suitable distance from the center point of that dipole to
be away from anything that would cause such innability to tune. Right now
I am thinking one of the legs of the dipole are fractured and that is the
problem. I don't have a way to test each leg of the dipole, it is about 50
feet of ladder line and then each leg but how do you test from the shack
if there is a fracture without the fancy scopes that you guys have? Other
than bringing each leg down and using ohm meter from one end to the other.

Any comments about having those channel master HD antennas too close to
the center feed point of a dipole? And the havok it can do to an old
transceiver and tuner?

Thanks

73s

Home made antenna question??
 

I think you are right in your statement of breaking the dipole or feedline
upon installing the tv antenna.

The tv antenna feedline is no where near the ladder line, about 4 feet
distance.

I suppose my next move is to pull down the dipole, check, and either fix or
eliminate that as my problem. I was hoping I didn't have to do that. But if
that copper solid wire, both in ladder line and dipole had fractured, I
would think it would be visible from gnd (about 35 feet height). All worked
before the tv antenna installation, and yes there was a lot of banging and
jamming and bumping of that dipole while installing the TV antenna but
nothing is visuably broken, maybe a hairline fracture. Looks like a climb is
in order. That is not one of my most favorite things, climbing 50 feet above
the ground on a self supporting tower. I hate climbing but do it every time.
I will let you know how I make out, probably climb today or tomorrow, looks
like rain.

Thanks and 73s





"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...
I doubt the TV antenna is affecting the dipole. You may have broken the
dipole or feed line when you put up the TV antenna.

Also check to see that you did not put the TV feedline too close to the
dipole feedline. It should be atleast a foot or more from it..


"Tom" wrote in message
...
Hi
Thanks for all the info and advice and ideas.

I have the 102 foot dipole up there now, my problem is I just put a TV
antenna HD (two 8 bay bow tie Channelmaster) antennas right above the
dipole's center point (about 1 meter away) and now I am having difficulty
tuning that dipole for anyband. In fact if I try too long the old 1970
transceiver shuts off automatically and scares me that I may have some of
that blue smoke you talked about. So I wanted to get something above it,
omni that would work as well as the dipole did work. Something simple,
and easy becuase nothing up there on the top now.

I think as you folks mentioned the omni fed with coax at short lengths
will be difficult unless it is long enough and with gnd planes, but first
wind storm will bring it down.

I will focus back onto the dipole. Do you think it is too close to the
new TV antennas? Would that cause the innability to tune it where I was
able to before through the manual tuner?

What would be a suitable distance from the center point of that dipole to
be away from anything that would cause such innability to tune. Right now
I am thinking one of the legs of the dipole are fractured and that is the
problem. I don't have a way to test each leg of the dipole, it is about
50 feet of ladder line and then each leg but how do you test from the
shack if there is a fracture without the fancy scopes that you guys have?
Other than bringing each leg down and using ohm meter from one end to the
other.

Any comments about having those channel master HD antennas too close to
the center feed point of a dipole? And the havok it can do to an old
transceiver and tuner?

Thanks

73s

Home made antenna question??
 

"Tom" wrote in message
...
I think you are right in your statement of breaking the dipole or feedline
upon installing the tv antenna.

The tv antenna feedline is no where near the ladder line, about 4 feet
distance.

I suppose my next move is to pull down the dipole, check, and either fix
or eliminate that as my problem. I was hoping I didn't have to do that.
But if that copper solid wire, both in ladder line and dipole had
fractured, I would think it would be visible from gnd (about 35 feet
height). All worked before the tv antenna installation, and yes there was
a lot of banging and jamming and bumping of that dipole while installing
the TV antenna but nothing is visuably broken, maybe a hairline fracture.
Looks like a climb is in order. That is not one of my most favorite
things, climbing 50 feet above the ground on a self supporting tower. I
hate climbing but do it every time. I will let you know how I make out,
probably climb today or tomorrow, looks like rain.

Thanks and 73s



While you are up there you may want to extend a pieceof pipe off the tower
and put a pulely on it. Then put a loop of small rope that goes to the
pulley and back to the ground. That way you will not have to climb the
tower as often.

Home made antenna question??
 

That is great idea. I have a piece of plastic pipe extending out about 6 ft
from the tower, about 45ft from the gnd, it is 2" ABS plastic pipe with a
hole in the end so just need to run the cord through there without the
pulley idea. I ran the ladder line straight up, the pipe holds the entire
weight of the dipole, ladder line which I spun a few times for wind
resistence. I have always had luck with that dipole, and really wondering
why it failed. It shouldn't have as it is only about 2 years old. I must
have damaged it when doing other things. That is my goal today to bring that
down and find the damage and repair it.

Now here is my querry ,,, I have a omni antenna I purchased at ham fest
years ago. I had it up on the tower for SWL for longest time and worked well
and also worked well when in transmit.

i used the big tunner to keep what I thought was safe levels of returned
power. I want to put this back up and use with big tuner and 1970
transceiver.

http://www.intelgold.com/vk4uq/manua...KR%20-%203.pdf

http://www.intelgold.com/vk4uq/manua...KR%20-%202.pdf

Now I can fabricate some aluminum gnd planes to go with this, this should be
on the ground but I want it in the air. While the traps and entire antenna
looks good shape, how can I tell if those traps are in working shape before
spending all the time cleaning it up, erecting it, etc etc, only to find it
is dead? The traps are completely sealed in there, the antenna looks about
as old as the transceiver, if not older. I am on a shoe string budget of
course so I cannot buy one of those fancy all band omni antennas, I have to
build.

Please comment on this antenna and my ideas about getting it working 50 feet
above the gnd.

Thanks

73s





"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"Tom" wrote in message
...
I think you are right in your statement of breaking the dipole or feedline
upon installing the tv antenna.

The tv antenna feedline is no where near the ladder line, about 4 feet
distance.

I suppose my next move is to pull down the dipole, check, and either fix
or eliminate that as my problem. I was hoping I didn't have to do that.
But if that copper solid wire, both in ladder line and dipole had
fractured, I would think it would be visible from gnd (about 35 feet
height). All worked before the tv antenna installation, and yes there was
a lot of banging and jamming and bumping of that dipole while installing
the TV antenna but nothing is visuably broken, maybe a hairline fracture.
Looks like a climb is in order. That is not one of my most favorite
things, climbing 50 feet above the ground on a self supporting tower. I
hate climbing but do it every time. I will let you know how I make out,
probably climb today or tomorrow, looks like rain.

Thanks and 73s



While you are up there you may want to extend a pieceof pipe off the
tower and put a pulely on it. Then put a loop of small rope that goes to
the pulley and back to the ground. That way you will not have to climb
the tower as often.

Home made antenna question??
 

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Now here is my querry ,,, I have a omni antenna I purchased at ham fest
years ago. I had it up on the tower for SWL for longest time and worked
well and also worked well when in transmit.

i used the big tunner to keep what I thought was safe levels of returned
power. I want to put this back up and use with big tuner and 1970
transceiver.

http://www.intelgold.com/vk4uq/manua...KR%20-%203.pdf

http://www.intelgold.com/vk4uq/manua...KR%20-%202.pdf

Now I can fabricate some aluminum gnd planes to go with this, this should
be on the ground but I want it in the air. While the traps and entire
antenna looks good shape, how can I tell if those traps are in working
shape before spending all the time cleaning it up, erecting it, etc etc,
only to find it is dead? The traps are completely sealed in there, the
antenna looks about as old as the transceiver, if not older. I am on a
shoe string budget of course so I cannot buy one of those fancy all band
omni antennas, I have to build.

Please comment on this antenna and my ideas about getting it working 50
feet above the gnd.


To check the vertical without any special equipment, you may have to install
it at ground level and see how the SWR is.

I do not think I would try to put it on the tower. If you look at the
instructions, you will need atleast 3 or more radials for each band and some
of them will be about 60 to 130 feet long.

Home made antenna question??
 

I was thinking of 4 radials about 8ft length.

Now I think because of height and present elevation and the big tuner it
will function safely, what would be the reasons why not to use this? I am
sure there are loses at the tuner, loses at the coax, loses becuase of poor
gnd planes lengths and numbers, but there has to be some gains. It works
would be a big gain.

Would there be mass interferrence on anything?



"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Now here is my querry ,,, I have a omni antenna I purchased at ham fest
years ago. I had it up on the tower for SWL for longest time and worked
well and also worked well when in transmit.

i used the big tunner to keep what I thought was safe levels of returned
power. I want to put this back up and use with big tuner and 1970
transceiver.

http://www.intelgold.com/vk4uq/manua...KR%20-%203.pdf

http://www.intelgold.com/vk4uq/manua...KR%20-%202.pdf

Now I can fabricate some aluminum gnd planes to go with this, this should
be on the ground but I want it in the air. While the traps and entire
antenna looks good shape, how can I tell if those traps are in working
shape before spending all the time cleaning it up, erecting it, etc etc,
only to find it is dead? The traps are completely sealed in there, the
antenna looks about as old as the transceiver, if not older. I am on a
shoe string budget of course so I cannot buy one of those fancy all band
omni antennas, I have to build.

Please comment on this antenna and my ideas about getting it working 50
feet above the gnd.


To check the vertical without any special equipment, you may have to
install it at ground level and see how the SWR is.

I do not think I would try to put it on the tower. If you look at the
instructions, you will need atleast 3 or more radials for each band and
some of them will be about 60 to 130 feet long.