In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 1/11/2014 3:44 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes



The best (and the ones we use) compress the entire base of the
connector evenly, creating a smooth crimp. The end of the coax is
evenly covered by the connector.

In the CATV industry, for F-connectors, isn't Snap-n-Seal now de the norm?


Maybe for cable companies who are trying to be cheap. But the
professional integrators around here all use crimp-on. Not much more
expensive and saving one callback pays for a lot of connectors.

Snap-n-Seal certainly isn't trying to be cheap.
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=snap+and+seal
They enable an essentially watertight seal to be obtained without
distorting (or even scratching) the connector, and therefore have little
measurable effect on the impedance.
--
Ian

On 1/11/2014 10:25 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 1/11/2014 3:44 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes



The best (and the ones we use) compress the entire base of the
connector evenly, creating a smooth crimp. The end of the coax is
evenly covered by the connector.

In the CATV industry, for F-connectors, isn't Snap-n-Seal now de the
norm?


Maybe for cable companies who are trying to be cheap. But the
professional integrators around here all use crimp-on. Not much more
expensive and saving one callback pays for a lot of connectors.

Snap-n-Seal certainly isn't trying to be cheap.
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=snap+and+seal
They enable an essentially watertight seal to be obtained without
distorting (or even scratching) the connector, and therefore have little
measurable effect on the impedance.

That's their claim, anyway.

As I said - none of the professional integrators around here use it.
The distributors don't even carry it.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.

==================

In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 1/11/2014 10:25 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 1/11/2014 3:44 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes



The best (and the ones we use) compress the entire base of the
connector evenly, creating a smooth crimp. The end of the coax is
evenly covered by the connector.

In the CATV industry, for F-connectors, isn't Snap-n-Seal now de the
norm?


Maybe for cable companies who are trying to be cheap. But the
professional integrators around here all use crimp-on. Not much more
expensive and saving one callback pays for a lot of connectors.

Snap-n-Seal certainly isn't trying to be cheap.
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=snap+and+seal
They enable an essentially watertight seal to be obtained without
distorting (or even scratching) the connector, and therefore have little
measurable effect on the impedance.

That's their claim, anyway.

And they are true!

As I said - none of the professional integrators around here use it

"Professional integrators" covers a multitude of sins. Professional in
what field?

. The distributors don't even carry it.

I suppose it depends which distributors you use. Such connectors are
hardly unknown in the USA.
www.tnb.com/pubint/docs/snapnseal.pdf

In the UK cable TV industry, for most applications, it would be a
hanging offence not to use an approved Snap-N-Seal connector.
--
Ian

On 1/11/2014 11:08 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 1/11/2014 10:25 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 1/11/2014 3:44 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes



The best (and the ones we use) compress the entire base of the
connector evenly, creating a smooth crimp. The end of the coax is
evenly covered by the connector.

In the CATV industry, for F-connectors, isn't Snap-n-Seal now de the
norm?


Maybe for cable companies who are trying to be cheap. But the
professional integrators around here all use crimp-on. Not much more
expensive and saving one callback pays for a lot of connectors.

Snap-n-Seal certainly isn't trying to be cheap.
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=snap+and+seal
They enable an essentially watertight seal to be obtained without
distorting (or even scratching) the connector, and therefore have little
measurable effect on the impedance.

That's their claim, anyway.

And they are true!

That is their claim, anyway.


As I said - none of the professional integrators around here use it

"Professional integrators" covers a multitude of sins. Professional in
what field?


No, there is only one field of "Professional Integration". It covers
everything from CCTV to security to automation systems to theaters (home
and commercial). Residential, commercial, and anything in between.

. The distributors don't even carry it.

I suppose it depends which distributors you use. Such connectors are
hardly unknown in the USA.
www.tnb.com/pubint/docs/snapnseal.pdf

In the UK cable TV industry, for most applications, it would be a
hanging offence not to use an approved Snap-N-Seal connector.

I didn't say they were unknown. Just that professional integrators
(including us) use better quality connectors.

And BTW, I checked with a couple of other integrator friends today.
They've never seen the cable companies around here use them, either. In
fact, the only place they've seen them used is by hobbyists and other
consumers. No professionals.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 19:41:20 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
wrote:

I didn't say they were unknown. Just that professional integrators
(including us) use better quality connectors.

Could I trouble you for a photo or part number for the crimp type F
connectors that you are using? I want to see what I'm missing.

Incidentally, SCTE IPS-TP-401 specifies that F connectors should
survive a 40 lb pull test.
http://www.sbcatest.com/SBCA%20connector%20recommended%20practices.pdf
I once built a fixture for testing this. Many of the cheap connectors
that I randomly purchased on eBay failed the test. You might want to
try it with your crimp connectors.

And BTW, I checked with a couple of other integrator friends today.
They've never seen the cable companies around here use them, either. In
fact, the only place they've seen them used is by hobbyists and other
consumers. No professionals.

Once a year, CED Magazine[1] provides an F-connector cross reference
wall chart. Here's the one for 2011. I don't recall seeing one in
the past 2 years probably because the incompatibility problems have
finally stabilized:
http://www.cedmagazine.com/wallcharts/2011/10/f-connector-cross-reference-chart-2011
http://www.cedmagazine.com/sites/cedmagazine.com/files/Wall_Charts/1111_F-Cconnector-WC.pdf
If you inspect the chart, you'll see the various SNS Snap-n-Seal part
numbers. The advertisement in the lower right is for Belden/T&B SNS
connectors.

What I guess(tm) happened was prior to Belden purchasing Thomas and
Betts in 2010, T&B had no interest in producing a connector that would
work with all RG-6/u type cables. Having many different types means
everyone has to carry a larger inventory. I'm too lazy to check, but
my bin contains at least 4 different F plugs for various manufacturers
cables and shield types of RG-6/u. I use the above chart to make sure
I don't create a mismatch. The most common connector is the SNS1P6
LRC series, color coded "blue", which fits double shielded RG-6/u.
http://www.tnb.com/pubint/docs/snapnseal.pdf (11 MBytes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBZAHhH4wCo (2 min)
Immediately after the acquisition, Belden introduced the "red"
connector, which is a universal replacement for most of the others and
will fit double, triple, and quad shielded RG-6/u. My experience with
this connector hase been quite good. However, I continue to use the
"blue" for double shielded RG-6/u because I have about a years
inventory of connectors left. When I reorder, it will probably be the
universal (or ultimate) "red" type in cool looking nickel-tin plating.

Locally, Comcast and Charter both use various types of T&B
Snap-and-Seal connectors. I had Comcast install cable internet in our
office building. That's all that I saw in use. In older
installations, they use Augat LRC connectors, which are the
predecessor of the current Belden/T&B connectors.

You also mentioned compression and stripping tools. I have about 5 of
them, ranging from cheap eBay junk to the T&B IT1000 which sells for
about $100:
http://www.mjsales.net/itemsearch.asp?FamilyID=202
The IT1000 seems to work best, although some odd extra long
compression connectors, or the BNC or Phono compression connectors,
require a different tool. I also stupidly bought a compression tool
that only fits one manufacturers connectors, and none other. Most of
my ham antennas use a compression BNC connector and/or F-connector to
UHF or BNC adapter. My IT1000 is marked Augat LRC, which should give
a clue as to its age.

You also mentioned that you're using RG-59/u. Please note that
RG-59/u lacks the foil shield(s) of RG-6/u which means that it leaks
more and suffers from possible ingres problems. RG-59/u has higher
attenuation:
RG-59 RG-6
50 MHz 2.4 dB 1.5 dB
100 MHz 3.4 dB 2.0 dB
400 MHz 7.0 dB 4.3 dB
900 MHz 11.1 dB 6.8 dB
1000 MHz 12.0 dB 7.0 dB
I've purged RG-59/u from my life many years ago. Are you sure you
want to continue using the stuff.

Not all RG-6/u cables are equal. Here's some junk:
http://sewelldirect.com/RG6-Bulk-Cable-Black-60-Braided-1000ft-Spool.asp
RG-6/u with no foil shield and only 60% coverage.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/11/2014 11:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 19:41:20 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
wrote:

I didn't say they were unknown. Just that professional integrators
(including us) use better quality connectors.

Could I trouble you for a photo or part number for the crimp type F
connectors that you are using? I want to see what I'm missing.


I can't post an image to the list, and distributors websites require
logins. It won't do you any good anyway - you won't find them on ebay
and the link. Sale is restricted by the manufacturers to professionals.

Incidentally, SCTE IPS-TP-401 specifies that F connectors should
survive a 40 lb pull test.
http://www.sbcatest.com/SBCA%20connector%20recommended%20practices.pdf
I once built a fixture for testing this. Many of the cheap connectors
that I randomly purchased on eBay failed the test. You might want to
try it with your crimp connectors.


They meet all requirements. These are not cheap connectors you find on
ebay.


And BTW, I checked with a couple of other integrator friends today.
They've never seen the cable companies around here use them, either. In
fact, the only place they've seen them used is by hobbyists and other
consumers. No professionals.

Once a year, CED Magazine[1] provides an F-connector cross reference
wall chart. Here's the one for 2011. I don't recall seeing one in
the past 2 years probably because the incompatibility problems have
finally stabilized:
http://www.cedmagazine.com/wallcharts/2011/10/f-connector-cross-reference-chart-2011
http://www.cedmagazine.com/sites/cedmagazine.com/files/Wall_Charts/1111_F-Cconnector-WC.pdf
If you inspect the chart, you'll see the various SNS Snap-n-Seal part
numbers. The advertisement in the lower right is for Belden/T&B SNS
connectors.


None of them are used by professionals over here.

What I guess(tm) happened was prior to Belden purchasing Thomas and
Betts in 2010, T&B had no interest in producing a connector that would
work with all RG-6/u type cables. Having many different types means
everyone has to carry a larger inventory. I'm too lazy to check, but
my bin contains at least 4 different F plugs for various manufacturers
cables and shield types of RG-6/u. I use the above chart to make sure
I don't create a mismatch. The most common connector is the SNS1P6
LRC series, color coded "blue", which fits double shielded RG-6/u.
http://www.tnb.com/pubint/docs/snapnseal.pdf (11 MBytes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBZAHhH4wCo (2 min)
Immediately after the acquisition, Belden introduced the "red"
connector, which is a universal replacement for most of the others and
will fit double, triple, and quad shielded RG-6/u. My experience with
this connector hase been quite good. However, I continue to use the
"blue" for double shielded RG-6/u because I have about a years
inventory of connectors left. When I reorder, it will probably be the
universal (or ultimate) "red" type in cool looking nickel-tin plating.


Belden makes great cables, but as a whole the industry has not embraced
them. The major distributors don't even carry the connectors (my guess
would be due to lack of sales).

And you can't use one connector for different sizes of coax without
causing an impedance bump and/or having mechanical issues. The
connectors we use are all for RG-6 quad (we do not use less).

Locally, Comcast and Charter both use various types of T&B
Snap-and-Seal connectors. I had Comcast install cable internet in our
office building. That's all that I saw in use. In older
installations, they use Augat LRC connectors, which are the
predecessor of the current Belden/T&B connectors.


I haven't seen Comcast recently, but the last I looked they didn't use
Snap & Seal connectors.

I haven't seen it recently because people around here don't let Comcast
wire their buildings. They hire companies like ours to do it.

You also mentioned compression and stripping tools. I have about 5 of
them, ranging from cheap eBay junk to the T&B IT1000 which sells for
about $100:
http://www.mjsales.net/itemsearch.asp?FamilyID=202
The IT1000 seems to work best, although some odd extra long
compression connectors, or the BNC or Phono compression connectors,
require a different tool. I also stupidly bought a compression tool
that only fits one manufacturers connectors, and none other. Most of
my ham antennas use a compression BNC connector and/or F-connector to
UHF or BNC adapter. My IT1000 is marked Augat LRC, which should give
a clue as to its age.

You also mentioned that you're using RG-59/u. Please note that
RG-59/u lacks the foil shield(s) of RG-6/u which means that it leaks
more and suffers from possible ingres problems. RG-59/u has higher
attenuation:
RG-59 RG-6
50 MHz 2.4 dB 1.5 dB
100 MHz 3.4 dB 2.0 dB
400 MHz 7.0 dB 4.3 dB
900 MHz 11.1 dB 6.8 dB
1000 MHz 12.0 dB 7.0 dB
I've purged RG-59/u from my life many years ago. Are you sure you
want to continue using the stuff.


We know what we're doing. You don't know anything about our
installations, our customers or our needs. Don't try to tell someone
who has done this professionally for years what they should be using.

And you're trying to tell EVERY professional in the United States
they're doing their job wrong. We all use RG-59 at times. RG-6 is NOT
appropriate for everything.

Not all RG-6/u cables are equal. Here's some junk:
http://sewelldirect.com/RG6-Bulk-Cable-Black-60-Braided-1000ft-Spool.asp
RG-6/u with no foil shield and only 60% coverage.


We know what is good and what is not. You don't need to tell us our job.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 11:31:23 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
wrote:

On 1/11/2014 11:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 19:41:20 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
wrote:

I didn't say they were unknown. Just that professional integrators
(including us) use better quality connectors.

Could I trouble you for a photo or part number for the crimp type F
connectors that you are using? I want to see what I'm missing.

I can't post an image to the list, and distributors websites require
logins. It won't do you any good anyway - you won't find them on ebay
and the link. Sale is restricted by the manufacturers to professionals.

Ah, secret sauce. A secret connector manufacturer and model number
obtainable only from a secret distributor. No doubt made exclusively
for professionals. The secret manufacturer probably made you sign an
NDA before he would sell you the connectors. He can't have
unprofessional hams using his secret connectors. The unobtainium
plating probably makes it difficult for you to take a photograph and
post it.

We know what is good and what is not. You don't need to tell us our job.

That's the problem. You haven't said anything about what you do, what
type of systems you work on, how you do it, what connectors you use,
what tools you use, where you obtain them, and the relative merits of
your system to those in use by Comcast and Charter. You offer nothing
that can be used, except that everything that I've been doing is
wrong, that every connector that I use is junk, and that everyone in
your area uses secret connectors and has magic cutters that last
nearly forever.

You might know what is good for "professionals", but I have no clue
what that might be. For me, questioning authority, trying something
different, and testing assumptions is a learning experience. I'm
doing a 10 year running experiment on the effectiveness of using 1"
PTFE wrap over commodity RF connectors for waterproofing. I'm testing
75 ohm coax where 50 ohms is standard. I use F connectors in a ham
radio environment for which they were never intended. I've designed
and build some rather odd antennas. I question and verify
conventional wisdom, claims, standards, test results, and
specifications. I've made both big and small mistakes, irritated the
experts, and occasionally inspired vendors into modifying their data
sheets and claims. I look for new ideas that I can use (or steal) and
had hoped that perhpas your secret F connector was in some way better
than the common Snap-n-Seal connector. I'm disappointed.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558