Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .


"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


On Friday, April 26, 2013 12:38:06 PM UTC-5, Irv Finkleman wrote:
snip

Maybe SB can explain the difference between a monopole with a single
ungrounded radial, and a dipole.

Each radial, grounded or not (but connected to the shield of the coax),
is the ground.
The Earth, the Moon, a satelite and each piece of conductor is ground
for antennas. Radial is one of them.
Ground must be adequate to kW.

What if the single ungrounded quarter wave radial is in line with the
quarter wave radiator?
Is it still a monopole?

# Of course.

Wow...you gave a lot to digest.

Just to understand the discussion, let's address the monopole with one
radial.

Assuming the monopole is 1/4 wave long, and has a 1/4 wave long radial.
The radial is in line with the monopole. Everything is ungrounded.

# The radial connected with the shield of the coax is the ground.


How does that configuration of a monopole with one radial differ from a
dipole?

The true horizontal dipole (electrically symmetric) radiate in one direction
only. A monopole in all directions.

So a half wave wire broken at the center is a monopole with a single
radial if it is fed directly with coax?

# Yes. The one leg is the radiator and the second is a ground (like a
# satellite chassis).

So with direct coax connection, one leg radiates and the other leg is
ground?

Would you be willing to touch the end of the "ground"/"radial" wire while
transmitting?

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

U¿ytkownik napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


"Marconi, who discovered if he attached one terminal of his transmitter
to a
wire suspended in the air and the other to the Earth, he could transmit
for
longer distances".

This has nothing to do with the question asked.



As you know are many version of ground because the soil is not the best.
The sleeve, the braid of the coax and so on are only the better ground.

Utter nonsense.

Dipole must be electrically symmetric.
If one leg is connected to the any version of ground such "dipole"
radiate
as monopole.

More babble.

You truely are an idiot.

You know only the EM waves. They "were made" by Heaviside in 1884, years
before Marconi and Tesla.
Take a glance on the Marconi Nobel lecture from 1909.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...ni-lecture.pdf
There (in references) no EM waves. No Heaviside. No Maxwell
Marconi wrote: "In my opinion many facts connected with the transmission of
electric
waves over great distances still await a satisfactory explanation".

Electric waves are radiated. EM is an induction.

About ground Marconi wrote:

"The necessity or utility of the earth connection has been sometimes
questioned,

but in my opinion no practical system of wireless telegraphy exists

where the instruments are not connected to earth.

By "connected to earth" I do not necessarily mean an ordinary metallic

connection as used for ordinary wire telegraphs.

The earth wire may have a condenser in series with it, or it may be
connected

to what is really equivalent, a capacity area placed close to the surface

of the ground (Fig. 4).

It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does not

prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in these
cases

the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

Was Marconi an idiot?

S*

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does not

prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in these
cases

the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

It is also well known that a conductor, when long enough, presents
itself as an inductor and does not allow passage of high frequency
oscillations.

Is Szczepan an idiot?

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


# The radial connected with the shield of the coax is the ground.


How does that configuration of a monopole with one radial differ from a
dipole?

The true horizontal dipole (electrically symmetric) radiate in one
direction
only. A monopole in all directions.

So a half wave wire broken at the center is a monopole with a single
radial if it is fed directly with coax?

# Yes. The one leg is the radiator and the second is a ground (like a
# satellite chassis).

So with direct coax connection, one leg radiates and the other leg is
ground?

Yes.

Would you be willing to touch the end of the "ground"/"radial" wire while
transmitting?

The electron density changes periodically in the both legs (while
transmitting).
Are the voltages equal in the both legs?

If you are really interested in electric waves look at Maconi Nobel lectu
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...ni-lecture.pdf
S*

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does
not


Is Szczepan an idiot?

I think the ones answering him are...

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .


"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


# The radial connected with the shield of the coax is the ground.


How does that configuration of a monopole with one radial differ from a
dipole?

The true horizontal dipole (electrically symmetric) radiate in one
direction
only. A monopole in all directions.

So a half wave wire broken at the center is a monopole with a single
radial if it is fed directly with coax?

# Yes. The one leg is the radiator and the second is a ground (like a
# satellite chassis).

So with direct coax connection, one leg radiates and the other leg is
ground?

# Yes.

Would you be willing to touch the end of the "ground"/"radial" wire while
transmitting?

# The electron density changes periodically in the both legs (while
# transmitting).
# Are the voltages equal in the both legs?

But the question was: if the half of the antenna connected to the coax is
ground, would you be willing to touch the end of that half while RF power is
supplied to the center conductor connected half of the antenna?

That would be a good way of verifying your theory.

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

U?ytkownik napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


"Marconi, who discovered if he attached one terminal of his transmitter
to a
wire suspended in the air and the other to the Earth, he could transmit
for
longer distances".

This has nothing to do with the question asked.



As you know are many version of ground because the soil is not the best.
The sleeve, the braid of the coax and so on are only the better ground.

Utter nonsense.

Dipole must be electrically symmetric.
If one leg is connected to the any version of ground such "dipole"
radiate
as monopole.

More babble.

You truely are an idiot.

You know only the EM waves. They "were made" by Heaviside in 1884, years
before Marconi and Tesla.

Babble.

Take a glance on the Marconi Nobel lecture from 1909.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...ni-lecture.pdf
There (in references) no EM waves. No Heaviside. No Maxwell

More babble.

Marconi wrote: "In my opinion many facts connected with the transmission of
electric
waves over great distances still await a satisfactory explanation".

Over 100 years old; EM radiation is now well understood by just about
everyone but you.

Electric waves are radiated. EM is an induction.

Yet more babble.

About ground Marconi wrote:

"The necessity or utility of the earth connection has been sometimes
questioned,

but in my opinion no practical system of wireless telegraphy exists

where the instruments are not connected to earth.

By "connected to earth" I do not necessarily mean an ordinary metallic

connection as used for ordinary wire telegraphs.

The earth wire may have a condenser in series with it, or it may be
connected

to what is really equivalent, a capacity area placed close to the surface

of the ground (Fig. 4).

It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does not

prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in these
cases

the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

Was Marconi an idiot?

No, Marconi was simply proven wrong about the ground requirement many
decades ago.

The majority of antennas that exist today were invented after Marconi died.

You, however, are a babbling idiot.



--
Jim Pennino

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

Rob wrote:
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does not

prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in these
cases

the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

It is also well known that a conductor, when long enough, presents
itself as an inductor and does not allow passage of high frequency
oscillations.

Is Szczepan an idiot?

Yes, Szczepan is a babbling idiot.



--
Jim Pennino

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

snip


The electron density changes periodically in the both legs (while
transmitting).
Are the voltages equal in the both legs?

If you actually knew anything about antennas you would realize that is
an immensely stupid question.

If you are really interested in electric waves look at Maconi Nobel lectu
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...ni-lecture.pdf

Most of the knowledge of electromagnetic waves, not "electric waves", was
obtained after 1909.

Your are not only and idiot, you are an idiot 100 years out of date.



--
Jim Pennino

Anyone know where I can find plans for an artificial ground?
 

On 4/30/2013 3:17 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"tom" napisal w wiadomosci
. ..
On 4/29/2013 10:20 PM, tom wrote:
On 4/29/2013 3:50 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
Assuming the monopole is 1/4 wave long, and has a 1/4 wave long radial.
The radial is in line with the monopole. Everything is ungrounded.

The radial connected with the shield of the coax is the ground.

So what would happen if I connected my transmitter, which has a 50 ohm
{ostensibly) output with the hot lead of the coax connected to the
"radial" instead of the "monopole" and similarly with the braid?

Think long about this.


Just to clearly understand where you are on how this really works.

I am not sure if I understand you.

If you have the mechanically symmetric dipole than one leg with the coax
braid works as the radiator and the second as the ground.
If you change the terminals than your radial will be the radiator.

Do not you have any possibility to check which leg is active?
S*



How does the "leg" know if it is connected to the braid versus the
center conductor?

tom
K0TAR