6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio
cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

So, any ideas for something better?

Wayne
W5GIE

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

On 6/27/2013 12:05 PM, Wayne wrote:
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal
patio cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

So, any ideas for something better?

Wayne
W5GIE
I built a 6 meter cubical quad for the June VHF contest. Wood frame with
real bamboo spreaders. Rotate with a TV antenna rotator. Worked great
till the rains started. Wires are resting directly on the bamboo. SWR
when wet is 4.9:1. Dry way 1.1:1. Weather getting hot and dry again, so
hope it returns to what it was.

Also fabricating parts for a 6 meter Moxon antenna.

Either antenna can be vertically or horizontally polarized. I prefer
horizontal for SSB.

Paul, KD7HB

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

"Paul Drahn" wrote in message ...

On 6/27/2013 12:05 PM, Wayne wrote:
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal
patio cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

So, any ideas for something better?

Wayne
W5GIE

# I built a 6 meter cubical quad for the June VHF contest. Wood frame with
# real bamboo spreaders. Rotate with a TV antenna rotator. Worked great
# till the rains started. Wires are resting directly on the bamboo. SWR
# when wet is 4.9:1. Dry way 1.1:1. Weather getting hot and dry again, so
# hope it returns to what it was.

# Also fabricating parts for a 6 meter Moxon antenna.

# Either antenna can be vertically or horizontally polarized. I prefer
# horizontal for SSB.

# Paul, KD7HB

Hadn't thought about the Moxon.

I hesitate to mention this, but some years ago a group regular was touting a
10 meter cubical quad using fractal elements. A 6 meter version might
almost fit in the attic.

You may have surmised by now that my possibilities for a decent antenna are
severely limited.

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

On 6/27/2013 12:43 PM, Wayne wrote:


"Paul Drahn" wrote in message ...

On 6/27/2013 12:05 PM, Wayne wrote:
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal
patio cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

So, any ideas for something better?

Wayne
W5GIE

# I built a 6 meter cubical quad for the June VHF contest. Wood frame with
# real bamboo spreaders. Rotate with a TV antenna rotator. Worked great
# till the rains started. Wires are resting directly on the bamboo. SWR
# when wet is 4.9:1. Dry way 1.1:1. Weather getting hot and dry again, so
# hope it returns to what it was.

# Also fabricating parts for a 6 meter Moxon antenna.

# Either antenna can be vertically or horizontally polarized. I prefer
# horizontal for SSB.

# Paul, KD7HB

Hadn't thought about the Moxon.

I hesitate to mention this, but some years ago a group regular was
touting a 10 meter cubical quad using fractal elements. A 6 meter
version might almost fit in the attic.

You may have surmised by now that my possibilities for a decent antenna
are severely limited.
Yeah, I kind of figured that. I was using a 160 meter horizontal loop
for 6 meters before the quad.

Google for "KG4JJH 6 moxon" and you will find a lot of references,
including a PDF of an April 2004 QST article.

KD7HB

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

Wayne wrote:
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio
cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

So, any ideas for something better?

Wayne
W5GIE

It depends on what you mean by "better".

A bowtie should fit in the attic, will have roughly the same gain as a
dipole, but will have a better SWR across the band.

A diamond loop would be about 6 feet tall, a square loop would be about
5 feet tall, and a hex loop a bit over 6 feet tall and all would have
a bit more gain than a dipole. My attic isn't that tall but yours may
be.

A HEN at 6M would have even more gain, but at about 10 feet tall would
likely have to go over the patio cover. The vertical pattern would depend
on how high above the patio cover you can mount it. EZNEC can easily
model that.

And of course there is always a 5/8 vertical directly on top of the
patio cover, which serves as the ground plane.



--
Jim Pennino

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

What do you want to do with it? If it is just for local nets and such
the vertical magmount should do the trick. For things like Dx you
will, of course,. want something more.

Irv VE6BP

"Wayne" wrote in message
...
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio
cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

So, any ideas for something better?

Wayne
W5GIE

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

"Irv Finkleman" wrote in message
...

# What do you want to do with it? If it is just for local nets and such
#the vertical magmount should do the trick. For things like Dx you
# will, of course,. want something more.

# Irv VE6BP

I don't know of any local nets, and the only stations I've worked are local
hams on a very occasional basis.

So the goal is an occasional non-local contact.

During the recent 6 meter test, I heard just a few weak stations, and got to
switch between the two antennas. The attic dipole was slightly better.
And, after digging for stations in the mud for about 30 minutes, I gave up
on the contest.

I've only been able to receive one beacon (about 60 miles away), but it went
off the air in a forest fire a while back.

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

"Wayne" wrote in message
...
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio
cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

So, any ideas for something better?

Wayne
W5GIE

What do you plan on doing with it ? Working repeaters, working locals on
ssb, doing dx work ? Doing it all ?

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:05:51 -0700, "Wayne"
wrote:

Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio
cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

Are you doing CW and SSB at the bottom of the 6 meter band?
Or are you doing FM and repeaters in the middle of the band?
Or perhaps you are doing radio control at the top of the band?
Antennas for these purposes are quite different. For example, CW and
SSB is usually done with horizontal polarization, while FM and radio
control are done with vertical. I'll guess(tm) FM and vertical.

The most successful 6M FM antenna I've built was a simple center fed
vertical 1/2 wave dipole, with a balun at the feed point. Two egg
insulators at the ends. Cantilever supports projecting from a tower,
side of building, or tree to give some clearance. Coax run
perpendicular to the antenna wire. Distance from tower has a big
effect on the pattern, so I made the attachment point adjustable.

At about 9 ft in length, your attic might not be tall enough for a 1/2
wave dipole. You can bend the corners over and still have a usable
antenna. Loading coils will also shorten the antenna, but if you go
that route, do it symmetrically, with identical loading coils on both
wires of the dipole. If not, run it down the roof line at an angle.

The nice thing about this antenna is that it's very easy to build, and
then rebuild after you discover your calculations are not quite
accurate. Have a grid dip meter or antennal analyzer handy.

If you have the room in your attic, and you're always working
repeaters in one particular direction, you can build a "wire" yagi in
the same manner as the dipole. The driven element will look much like
the dipole, but the others are roughly 1/2 wave yagi elements. I've
build monsterious 2 meter rope yagis for transmitter hunts, but
haven't tried it on 6m.

If you do have a 20ft pole, and are concerned with aesthetics, try a
coaxial antenna. Basically, a 4.5ft large diameter 1/4 wave pipe over
the top of the 20ft pole for the counterpoise sleeve, and a stainless
4.5ft whip antenna on top. Use 75 ohm RG-6a/u coax to feed it, since
it's a 75 ohm antenna. The mismatch to your radio will be minimal.
http://www.belden.com/blog/broadcastav/50-Ohms-The-Forgotten-Impedance.cfm
http://www.solred.com.ar/lu6etj/tecnicos/En_75.htm

If a coax antenna is too much, try a 5/8 wave:
http://www.hamuniverse.com/6metervertical.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:05:51 -0700, "Wayne"
wrote:

Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.
A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio
cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

# Are you doing CW and SSB at the bottom of the 6 meter band?

Yes.

snip

Thanks for the info Jeff.

I guess I wasn't specific on the interests. So far, just CW and SSB. I
have mostly been getting a HF 7-28 Mhz antenna set up. Now I'm looking at
6.

A rotary array would be difficult in the attic, but switched directive
arrays may be possible.

Otherwise, I'm mostly limited to antennas on the patio cover. A rotary beam
would be possible, but at a low height of about 15 feet.

Time to spend some effort with EZNEC.

Wayne
W5GIE
Redlands, CA

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:46:19 -0700, "Wayne"
wrote:

I guess I wasn't specific on the interests. So far, just CW and SSB. I
have mostly been getting a HF 7-28 Mhz antenna set up. Now I'm looking at
6.

Well, you can ignore most of what I scribbled. Welcome to horizontal
polarization. My guess(tm) is that a horizontal yagi or dipole in the
attic is going to have problems due to all the wiring and possibly
conduit in the attic. A vertical is at least mostly away from the
wiring, but a horizontal antenna lands right in the middle of the
mess. There's also the not so wonderful noise produced by electronic
ballasts, LED lighting inverters, and ceiling fans. I guess(tm) that
an outside cross polarized vertical or loop antenna would work better
than anything horizontal inside the attic.

A rotary array would be difficult in the attic, but switched directive
arrays may be possible.

Or, a non-rotating electrical wire horizontal yagi between the
rafters. There are also temporary antennas that can be rolled out
when needed, and hidden when the neighbors arrive in force:
http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/6mRopeYagi.htm
Because all of the CW/SSB action is at the very bottom of the band, a
narrow bandwidth antenna works just fine.

Time to spend some effort with EZNEC.

I suggest 4NEC2 instead:
http://www.qsl.net/4nec2/
The program includes a substantial number of common antenna models to
plagiarize.

Dual 5/8 wave 50 Mhz vertical (without matching xformer):
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/gnd-plane-02/index.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:46:19 -0700, "Wayne"
wrote:

I guess I wasn't specific on the interests. So far, just CW and SSB. I
have mostly been getting a HF 7-28 Mhz antenna set up. Now I'm looking at
6.

snip

Time to spend some effort with EZNEC.

# I suggest 4NEC2 instead:
http://www.qsl.net/4nec2/
# The program includes a substantial number of common antenna models to
# plagiarize.

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

By the way, I have no homeowner's association constraints. It is a normal
sized house on a small lot that slopes down in the back, and has no suitable
trees.

Wayne
W5GIE
Redlands, CA

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

"Wayne" wrote in message
...

# Are you doing CW and SSB at the bottom of the 6 meter band?

Yes.


Now we are getting somewhere. For 6 meter ssb you normally want the antenna
to be horizontal. There is about a 20 db differance if the antennas are not
the same. You are not going to be able to work very far on 6 metes with
simple, low antennas unless the band is open. When the band opens, it is
possiable to work thousands of miles with low power and not very good
antennas. I worked from North Carolina to Canada with 10 watts and an
antenna that was a 40 meter dipole during one opening.
As for vhf you first want to get the antenna as high as you can, and then
make it as big as you can. Height is usually beter than size for local
work.

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:04:02 -0700, Paul Drahn wrote:

Google for "KG4JJH 6 moxon" and you will find a lot of references,
including a PDF of an April 2004 QST article.

KD7HB

Thanks Paul for the suggestion. KG4JJH has some nice projects in his site. It's
very well laid out too. I love to look through sites like his that have
interesting ham radio related projects.

73, Bob KB2ZGN

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:05:51 PM UTC-5, Wayne wrote:
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.

A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.



Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio

cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.



So, any ideas for something better?



Wayne

W5GIE

A friend built a single element quad or full wave loop using wire and pvc pipe for spreaders and this worked pretty well. Also is fairly compact to put into the attic or hide it if needed outside.
73, Randy, w5kcm

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

"w5kcm" wrote in message
...

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:05:51 PM UTC-5, Wayne wrote:
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover.

A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible.

Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio

cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic.

So, any ideas for something better?

Wayne

W5GIE

# A friend built a single element quad or full wave loop using wire and pvc
pipe for spreaders and this worked pretty well. Also is fairly compact to
put into the attic or hide it if needed outside.
# 73, Randy, w5kcm

That's one of my current interesting configurations. I don't need to hide
the antenna. I have a dipole in the attic now, but the various RF birdies
are horrendous. The quarter wave vertical outside is much quieter.

The simplest thing for me at the moment is to buy a commercial Squalo type
antenna and let it go at that.

Thanks
Wayne W5GIE
/6

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:53:52 -0700, Wayne wrote:

The simplest thing for me at the moment is to buy a commercial Squalo type
antenna and let it go at that.

There's 'simple', and then there's the _amateur_ radio way.
:-)
http://jonz.net/W3DHJ/6mhalo.html

73
Jonesy
--
Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
38.24N 104.55W | @ config.com | Jonesy | OS/2
* Killfiling google & XXXXbanter.com: jonz.net/ng.htm

6 meter antenna ideas.....
 

On Thursday, June 27, 2013 3:05:51 PM UTC-4, Wayne wrote:
Needs to be either in the attic, or on a metal patio cover. A vertical on top of a 20 foot pole "might" be possible. Currently I am using a 1/4 wave vertical mag mount on top of a metal patio cover. I also have a half wave dipole in the attic. So, any ideas for something better? Wayne W5GIE

Havent much been on the air since my daughter was born 18 years ago. She took over the extra bedroom or as I called it "The Shack". The roof of my house has ridges running at right angles to each other so I installed 6 meter dipoles in each one. I could select either one via a coax relay also mounted in the attic.. One thing I did notice with this setup was there was usualy very little change in signal strength regardless of whitch antenna I used.. The exception was with local contacts when the other station was directly off the end of the antenna I was using. There was only one station like this.

Jimmie