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Old February 22nd 14, 10:24 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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"Sal" salmonella@food poisoning.org wrote in message
...

Too many projects, not enough me.


Sounds like the story of me and my shack :-)



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Old February 22nd 14, 04:51 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:49:25 -0800, "Sal" salmonella@food
poisoning.org wrote:

Too many projects, not enough me. And I face a big non-hobby project of
cleaning and recoating the patio stones. Yuck!


I spent my first 50 years accumulating all this junk. I plan to spend
the next 50 years fixing or getting rid of it. I think the J-pole
modeling can wait. I'll do what I can if I feel inspired.

Today's adventure will be driving up to a local repeater site and
bludgeoning a recalcitrant repeater into submission. At least I'll
get some exercise and a free lunch today.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old February 22nd 14, 08:07 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

snip

Today's adventure will be driving up to a local repeater site and
bludgeoning a recalcitrant repeater into submission. At least I'll
get some exercise and a free lunch today.


I can relate. I'm on standby, waiting for the call that our repeater needs
to have the cans adjusted. I'm the guy with the sweep generator/spec-an.

"Sal"


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Old April 18th 14, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
On Friday, February 14, 2014 11:21:01 PM UTC-6, Brian Reay wrote:
wrote:

On Friday, February 14, 2014 1:59:15 PM UTC-6, gareth wrote:


Just found this; looks interesting; no connection with the author;




all in the spirit of free dissemination of knowledge to fellow




radio amateurs ...








http://www.cvarc.org/tech/antenna_my...enna_myths.pdf



Several parts of it are pure unadulterated horse doo-doo..


I find it to be in very poor taste to post a page claiming to


expose and list myths and mysteries, only to replace them with


other myths and mysteries. :+


That is akin to chasing one's tail while barking at the moon.




I confess to only have 'scan read' the reference and I thought it was still

pretty good.



What in particular do you have an issue with, please?



--

73

Brian

G8OSN/W8OSN


Well, I suppose most is OK, but there are a few problems.

Take this one..

More recent HF tests by Al Christman - KB8I; "Eleva
ted Vertical Antenna Systems,"
QST, August 1988, p 35; have shown that
fewer "elevated" radials will perform
about as well as 120 ground mounted ones.
A base mounting height above ground
of about 1/10 to 1/16 of a wavelength seems optimu
m for 4 radials.........but will vary
with soil conductivity.

I don't know how he ran his tests, but this is not right.
1/10 WL is way too low for four elevated radials to equal
120 on the ground. I was harping about this "myth" in
another post not long ago..

There is no free lunch. :|

For four radials to equal 120 on the ground, they will
need to be nearly 1/2 wave up. Four radials at 1/4 wave
up are equal to about 50-60 on the ground.

Seems optimum? If the radial system were optimum, it really
wouldn't matter what the conductivity of the ground was.

This is actually proving my point that four radials at 1/16
to 1/10 WL are not nearly enough to actually equal 120 on the
ground. If they were equal, you wouldn't have to raise the
antenna and radials.

That's the whole point of using so many radials on the ground.
So the quality of the ground, good or bad, really doesn't matter.
Efficiency will be high either way.

Some of his 1/2 vertical design statements could be argued
with, but I'll be here all night if I start into that.. :/

Then you have this..

Myth:
A 5/8 wave antenna has 3dB
more gain than a ground plane.
False

This can be true in many cases.
But it can also be false in many cases.


*
The losses in the required matching coil at the base
of the 5/8 wave antenna reduce the gain difference
to a max of about 2dB (with a perfect ground plane)
to zero difference in some installations. **
--------------------------------------------------

This is fairly absurd.. The loss of the loading coil
is quite negligible. I bet not even enough for most
people to accurately measure.

The coil has nothing to do with why some types of
5/8 verticals show little or no gain vs a 1/4 GP,
or isotropic.

Those are a couple of my issues anyway..
The "Free Lunch" elevated radial system being one of my
pet peeve myths.. :|

Radials are certainly "sacred cows" for the Ham community and the discussions are endless about their need.

I spoke recently with a 60 + years Ham that was also a CW operator and engineer on a high seas commercial ship and his take on radials and the necessary ground plane needed surprised me when I asked about using a metal roof as the ground plane or counterpoise by telling me just as a metal ship works well a metal roof would do so likewise. I remember some years ago calling Butternut Antenna Company about mounting one of their verticals on the same roof and was told to just add a few radials and toss them on the roof below and it would work it best. Many articles are written about radials and scores or antennas are being designed to lower the need for radials.

I have a Gap vertical that uses only two 25 ft long radials and they are for only 40 and 75 the other bands need none. I have read many comments attacking the idea of needing no radials with those commenting not understanding Gap verticals are really just dipoles feed in the middle with the coax being sent to the feed point INSIDE the bottom half of the 33 ft long antenna, so other rods are added to 20 meter basic dipole to be usable on other bands. so it is already a balanced antenna.
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