swivel lubricant
 

I need suggestions for a long lasting lubricant paste for the swivels I use in my antenna support system. The critical aspect is it must be compatible with polyester & Nylon ropes. If anyone knows of a lubricant that is applied as a paste and will continue contributing a lubricating layer for an extended time but that is also not destructive of artificial rope I would love to hear of it.

--
Tom Horne W3TDH

swivel lubricant
 

Tom W3TDH wrote in
:

I need suggestions for a long lasting lubricant paste for the swivels I
use in my antenna support system. The critical aspect is it must be
compatible with polyester & Nylon ropes. If anyone knows of a lubricant
that is applied as a paste and will continue contributing a lubricating
layer for an extended time but that is also not destructive of
artificial rope I would love to hear of it.

--
Tom Horne W3TDH


Try 'Krytox', used for scuba breathing gear, specifically the rubber O-rings
and valves. It's a PFPE grease (perfluoropolyether), and uses various
thickeners, often powedered teflon. It is very inert, tends to stay where it
is put, and so long as heavy weather can't get in to force displacement, it
should last as long as you need it to. As far as I know, it won't be degraded
with UV, and will not outgas much with ambient heat. I'm not sure what if
anything will degrade it quickly.

swivel lubricant
 

On 10/9/2014 10:28 AM, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Tom W3TDH wrote in
:

I need suggestions for a long lasting lubricant paste for the swivels I
use in my antenna support system. The critical aspect is it must be
compatible with polyester & Nylon ropes. If anyone knows of a lubricant
that is applied as a paste and will continue contributing a lubricating
layer for an extended time but that is also not destructive of
artificial rope I would love to hear of it.

--
Tom Horne W3TDH


Try 'Krytox', used for scuba breathing gear, specifically the rubber O-rings
and valves. It's a PFPE grease (perfluoropolyether), and uses various
thickeners, often powedered teflon. It is very inert, tends to stay where it
is put, and so long as heavy weather can't get in to force displacement, it
should last as long as you need it to. As far as I know, it won't be degraded
with UV, and will not outgas much with ambient heat. I'm not sure what if
anything will degrade it quickly.

That may not be a good lubricant. Its intended purpose is to help with
the seal of the o-rings. Lubrication is not really needed there.

That said, I'm sure it is a better lubricant than not having one. Of
course this all depends on what is being lubricated. I assume the
swivels are made of metal, but which kind and what surface?

--

Rick

swivel lubricant
 

rickman wrote in :

That may not be a good lubricant. Its intended purpose is to help with
the seal of the o-rings. Lubrication is not really needed there.

That said, I'm sure it is a better lubricant than not having one. Of
course this all depends on what is being lubricated. I assume the
swivels are made of metal, but which kind and what surface?


Good point, but it's actually excellent where I've tried it. I have used it
in fans, sleeveless bearings and such, and while it has a butter-like
tendency to part between two moving surfaces rather than gloop between them,
requiring a bit more than might normally be called for with a grease to make
sure there is enough where it matters, it excludes dirt well, does not form a
grinding paste easily because it tends to keep grit on its outer surface, and
does not migrate like a silicone grease does.

In short, I really like the stuff. :) I've seen a few fans just carrying on
like the Energiser bunny, for years, logn extended beyond the point where
other greases had been tried and found wanting.

I suspect the main thing to watch for is than on many surfaces it is more
coherent than adherent, but swivels to attach lines to will have enough
complex curves to retain the stuff.

It, or somethign very similar, is used as standard in car door hingers,
apparently.

swivel lubricant
 

On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 14:13:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom W3TDH
wrote:

I need suggestions for a long lasting lubricant paste for the swivels I use
in my antenna support system. The critical aspect is it must be compatible
with polyester & Nylon ropes. If anyone knows of a lubricant that is applied
as a paste and will continue contributing a lubricating layer for an extended
time but that is also not destructive of artificial rope I would love to
hear of it.
Tom Horne W3TDH

I suggest you take a clue from the sailing community. Long lasting
means that anything exposed to the water or atmosphere is going to
drip, ooze, leak, evaporate, oxidize, melt, dissolve, wash off, or
otherwise disappear. It doesn't matter what the lube is made from,
it's going to disappear. This is why sailboat blocks (pulleys), that
are not sealed, use nylon sheaves (bushings), which are self
lubricating. Those that can be sealed, use various types of grease.
For a bigger load, sometimes sintered bronze bushings saturated in oil
are used. This should give you a clue as to the technology:
http://www.ronstan.us/marine5/SAsheaves.asp

If you want things to last, pay attention to galvanic compatibility.
416 Stainless steel and phosphor bronze offer perfect galvanic
compatibility, but other combinations are not so good and will not
last as long:
http://www.pemnet.com/design_info/galvanic.html

Some people use grease as a form of rust inhibitor. That works, for a
while. Switching to stainless or using paint instead of grease, are
more effective.

It would be very helpful if you would kindly supply a better
description of what you're trying to lubricate. My guess(tm) is that
it's a system of blocks and sheets (ropes). Stuff like these:
http://www.westmarine.com/sailboat-blocks
with a swivel at the end of the block.

Incidentally, polyester and nylon are good choices for outdoor rope.
http://www.mapability.com/ei8ic/contest/rope.php
However, make sure that both have some manner of UV "stabilizer" or
"inhibitor". I managed to buy some very cheap nylon rope on eBay that
didn't even last the summer.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

swivel lubricant
 

Jeff Liebermann wrote in
:

I suggest you take a clue from the sailing community. Long lasting
means that anything exposed to the water or atmosphere is going to
drip, ooze, leak, evaporate, oxidize, melt, dissolve, wash off, or
otherwise disappear. It doesn't matter what the lube is made from,
it's going to disappear.

Actually I have to second that. While most of my past antennas were very
fragile affairs despite being well engineered enough to stay put in a storm,
I also do a PV install whose methods are a lot closer to things done for
strong antenna mounts. I have used various bits of stainless steel chandlery
and stranded wires, sheaves, shackles and such. eBay turns out to be an
awesome way to find such things. I'm in the UK so perhaps spoiled for choice,
surrounded by water and people selling stuff to use there, but a lot of it is
easy to send anywhere. Be willing to search wide and improvise to best efect
and cost saving.

One thing to watch: there are polyester ropes, and polypropylene. Learn the
differences, and beware the mislabelled and badly decribed supplies out
there.. I tried hard to get it right, and I still ended up with 15m of
polyproylene when I thought I was getting pre=stretched polyester!

swivel lubricant
 

On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:57:14 -0500, Lostgallifreyan
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote in
:

I suggest you take a clue from the sailing community. Long lasting
means that anything exposed to the water or atmosphere is going to
drip, ooze, leak, evaporate, oxidize, melt, dissolve, wash off, or
otherwise disappear. It doesn't matter what the lube is made from,
it's going to disappear.

Actually I have to second that. While most of my past antennas were very
fragile affairs despite being well engineered enough to stay put in a storm,
I also do a PV install whose methods are a lot closer to things done for
strong antenna mounts.

Thanks. My experience is from being a design engineer for a long
defunct marine radio company. The marine environment is a hostile
place to work and corrosion is only one of the major problems. One
learns quickly, such as when I stupidly designed in a volume control
with a brass bushing and an aluminum shaft. Much is not in the text
books, such as some types of stainless steel are galvanically
incompatible with themselves. Simple principles, such as NEVER design
in a horizontal surface, which will puddle water, are only learned
after a problem appears. Some of these lessons border on heresy, such
as hermetically sealed enclosures never really stay sealed (unless
welded shut). My web page and motto "Learn By Destroying" had some
real meaning when discussing corrosion.

I have used various bits of stainless steel chandlery
and stranded wires, sheaves, shackles and such. eBay turns out to be an
awesome way to find such things. I'm in the UK so perhaps spoiled for choice,
surrounded by water and people selling stuff to use there, but a lot of it is
easy to send anywhere. Be willing to search wide and improvise to best efect
and cost saving.

I cheated and ended up with some of the inventory from a bankrupt
marine hardware wholesale dealer. At one point, I had over 2000 lbs
of assorted deck hardware. Much of it was used to rebuild several
sailboats and keep my former Hobie 14 afloat. The rest was sold many
years ago to a jobber who tripled my prices and did quite well.

One thing to watch: there are polyester ropes, and polypropylene. Learn the
differences, and beware the mislabelled and badly decribed supplies out
there.. I tried hard to get it right, and I still ended up with 15m of
polyproylene when I thought I was getting pre=stretched polyester!

Most reputable eBay vendors value their reputation. I've had a few
similar screwups. An email to the vendor usually gets either an
exchange or a refund. It's easy to spot a reputable vendor. They're
the one's with thousands of sales and a reasonably high rating (96% or
better). Unfortunately, that also means you shouldn't buy anything
from me.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

swivel lubricant
 

Jeff Liebermann wrote in
:

Much is not in the text
books, such as some types of stainless steel are galvanically
incompatible with themselves.

Fortunately Bristol is far enough away from the coast for me not to have to
worry much. :) I did read a bit about galvanic corrosion though, and my
methods basically make sure that when almunium meets 304L stainless, there is
enough of it to withstand it with no significant loss for a very long time. I
use 316 in smaller peices for critical parts, but it seems ok with 304 in a
city envirnment. If anything, I expect the 304 to do the corroding, and
that's the bulk of it so no harm results overall.

Simple principles, such as NEVER design
in a horizontal surface, which will puddle water, are only learned
after a problem appears. Some of these lessons border on heresy, such
as hermetically sealed enclosures never really stay sealed (unless
welded shut).

I also avoid horizontal (or at least significantly flat) surfaces. About
seals, I agree there. Changes of pressure due to heat will always win if
there is any way through at all, it could be smaller than a hypodermic bore,
or a bit of microporosity (a bane of thick acetal sheet plastic), and fatigue
in the material will make this worse rapidly. I read somewhere that a small
cylindrical bore with enough length to hold all the possible expanded gas
with an inch or more to spare, then filling that bore with grease, might be
better than trying for a 'perfect seal'. I suspect it would be weatherproof
too, though there may well be things that would try to eat it, or clear it
out while trying to make a home.

swivel lubricant
 

Jeff Liebermann wrote in
:

Most reputable eBay vendors value their reputation. I've had a few
similar screwups. An email to the vendor usually gets either an
exchange or a refund. It's easy to spot a reputable vendor. They're
the one's with thousands of sales and a reasonably high rating (96% or
better). Unfortunately, that also means you shouldn't buy anything
from me.


I think there;s no substitute for knowing what we want, regardless of size of
seller. I think the one I found was ok actually, they just screwed up with an
ambiguous listing title, and I screwed up by not spotting it earlier. When I
saw the UV colour-fade and went back to check 6 months after buying, I saw
they'd already changed and corrected the listing, but I'd run out of time to
make a claim.

Too bad eBay was not around more than ten years or so ago, you'd have done ok
with all that deck hardware. :)

swivel lubricant
 

On 10/10/2014 10:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
It's easy to spot a reputable vendor. They're
the one's with thousands of sales and a reasonably high rating (96% or
better). Unfortunately, that also means you shouldn't buy anything
from me.

A 96% rating is really crappy for an eBay vendor these days. That says
about 1 in 25 have a problem that wasn't corrected. I look for vendors
with approval ratings well above 99% and if there is one at 99.8% and
another at 99.4% I go with the one at 99.8%. That's a factor of three
in terms of problems.

--

Rick

swivel lubricant
 

"rickman" wrote in message
...
On 10/10/2014 10:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
It's easy to spot a reputable vendor. They're
the one's with thousands of sales and a reasonably high rating (96% or
better). Unfortunately, that also means you shouldn't buy anything
from me.

A 96% rating is really crappy for an eBay vendor these days. That says
about 1 in 25 have a problem that wasn't corrected. I look for vendors
with approval ratings well above 99% and if there is one at 99.8% and
another at 99.4% I go with the one at 99.8%. That's a factor of three in
terms of problems.


One bad thing about the ratings on ebay is some people give negative
feedback because of the crappy product and not because there is anything
wrong with the seller.

If someone orders a crappy made product, he should not give the seller
negative feedback. Too bad there is not a way to rate the products along
with the seller.

The way I look at it, nomater what comes in the box (if new) if it is in
good condition and what is ordered and gets to me in a reasonable time I
give good feedback.

I received a new telephone that was suspose to be for the hard of hearing..
That phone was not as good as the standard phones I have. While the phone
was crappy, it was the one shown on ebay. I still left good feedback.
A used computer came in and the hard drive was flopping around in it and
would not boot. As I am ok to work on computers, I sent the vender an email
about it and asked him to send me a hard drive and I would send him the old
one back (computer had a startup disc with it). He sent one right away. I
left good feed back and a note that I had a small problem, but quickly
corrected. Maybe others would not see it that way.
For new stuff the 'stores' sell they just put out what the product is
advertised for .



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swivel lubricant
 

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:

If someone orders a crappy made product, he should not give the seller
negative feedback.

There is if the seller won't refund the money. Distance selling regulations
(or whatever they're called now) make this totally clear. It's up to the
seller not to stock bad products, especially once their buying public make it
clear what they think of them. That's free market economics, and the
advocates of such need to suck it up, in my view.

I'll rant just one more paragraph... In the UK, Ratner, a jeweller, sold
crap. He said so too, and it broke his business. Alan Sugar on the other
hand, sold crap that wasn't fit to repair when I saw it reach the second hand
shops where I worked to repair stuff when I was young. The innards were cheap
and shoddy, the cases little better. He basically cut so many corners he
ripped on the whole of England, and what happened? He bullies his way around
the TV networks and is lionised, even worhipped and feared. It's disgusting.
People should demand better, and be ready to pay for it, otherwise they'll
just get kicked in thew teeth till they have no teeth left to bite with.

My own personal fix for the problem is pretty small actually, I buy older
gear, stuff that cost a grand and now costs fifty quid or less because people
didn't respect it when they had it. If more people held on like this I'd not
have it so easy, but at least more people would have somethign worth
defending.

For all its flaws, eBay does seem to be helping this happen, because the
seller will nearly always lose to the buyer when the goods aren't good.

swivel lubricant
 

"Lostgallifreyan" wrote in message
. ..

I'll rant just one more paragraph... In the UK, Ratner, a jeweller, sold
crap. He said so too, and it broke his business. Alan Sugar on the other
hand, sold crap that wasn't fit to repair when I saw it reach the second
hand
shops where I worked to repair stuff when I was young. The innards were
cheap
and shoddy, the cases little better. He basically cut so many corners he
ripped on the whole of England, and what happened?

I like the story of LL Beam. Seems that he started a mail order business
selling shoes or boots. The first orders he sent out had a return rate of
about 90%. He reworked the boots into a good quality and sent them back for
free. This gave him a good reputation.
This is now a major company.



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http://www.avast.com

swivel lubricant
 

On 10/11/2014 10:30 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"rickman" wrote in message
...
On 10/10/2014 10:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
It's easy to spot a reputable vendor. They're
the one's with thousands of sales and a reasonably high rating (96% or
better). Unfortunately, that also means you shouldn't buy anything
from me.

A 96% rating is really crappy for an eBay vendor these days. That says
about 1 in 25 have a problem that wasn't corrected. I look for vendors
with approval ratings well above 99% and if there is one at 99.8% and
another at 99.4% I go with the one at 99.8%. That's a factor of three in
terms of problems.


One bad thing about the ratings on ebay is some people give negative
feedback because of the crappy product and not because there is anything
wrong with the seller.

If someone orders a crappy made product, he should not give the seller
negative feedback. Too bad there is not a way to rate the products along
with the seller.

The way I look at it, nomater what comes in the box (if new) if it is in
good condition and what is ordered and gets to me in a reasonable time I
give good feedback.

I received a new telephone that was suspose to be for the hard of hearing..
That phone was not as good as the standard phones I have. While the phone
was crappy, it was the one shown on ebay. I still left good feedback.
A used computer came in and the hard drive was flopping around in it and
would not boot. As I am ok to work on computers, I sent the vender an email
about it and asked him to send me a hard drive and I would send him the old
one back (computer had a startup disc with it). He sent one right away. I
left good feed back and a note that I had a small problem, but quickly
corrected. Maybe others would not see it that way.
For new stuff the 'stores' sell they just put out what the product is
advertised for .

If a vendor responds and replaces the item which had a problem due to no
fault of theirs, I would happily give them good feedback. Those are the
cases that distinguish a good vendor from a crappy one. Anyone can sell
good merchandise. Even if the problem is due to the seller and they
handle it properly I give good feedback.

But if they are selling an item that is crap and they won't give a
refund, I don't see why I shouldn't give them a bad rating. I'm sure
that after shipping a couple dozen of a poor quality item they have
gotten feedback that tells them about the problem. If they don't want
poor feedback they should not sell crappy items.

--

Rick