On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?

--

Rick

rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?

Photons are not accelerated; they either exist and are travelling at the
speed of light (in the medium) or they don't exist.

And before you ask, the speed change in the local frame due to a change
in medium is instantaneous, which would be impossible if they had rest
mass.


--
Jim Pennino

On 10/9/2014 7:46 PM, wrote:
rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?

Photons are not accelerated; they either exist and are travelling at the
speed of light (in the medium) or they don't exist.

And before you ask, the speed change in the local frame due to a change
in medium is instantaneous, which would be impossible if they had rest
mass.

No one has said a photon has rest mass. In fact it is impossible for it
to have rest mass since it can never be at rest...

--

Rick

On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?


It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based
on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different
manifestations of the same thing.

But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be
massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate
even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

On 10/9/2014 9:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?


It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based
on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different
manifestations of the same thing.

So why do you have trouble understanding where the relativistic mass of
a photon comes from? Is the exact same thing but without the rest mass.


But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be
massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate
even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass.

Yes, it has no *rest mass*. The rest mass is what limits the
acceleration. You are thinking in a circle and you can't seem to get
out of the loop. Rest mass vs. relativistic mass. One is present even
at rest while the other is a result of the energy added as a function of
its speed.

--

Rick

On 10/9/2014 9:56 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its
energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?


It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based
on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different
manifestations of the same thing.

So why do you have trouble understanding where the relativistic mass of
a photon comes from? Is the exact same thing but without the rest mass.


But if it's moving at the speed of light, it can't have any mass.
Einstein did not differentiate between rest mass and relativistic mass.


But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be
massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate
even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass.

Yes, it has no *rest mass*. The rest mass is what limits the
acceleration. You are thinking in a circle and you can't seem to get
out of the loop. Rest mass vs. relativistic mass. One is present even
at rest while the other is a result of the energy added as a function of
its speed.


No, I'm not thinking in circles. According to Einstein, mass is mass.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

On 10/9/2014 10:03 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:56 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its
energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?


It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based
on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different
manifestations of the same thing.

So why do you have trouble understanding where the relativistic mass of
a photon comes from? Is the exact same thing but without the rest mass.


But if it's moving at the speed of light, it can't have any mass.
Einstein did not differentiate between rest mass and relativistic mass.

Now you are smoking dope...


But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be
massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate
even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass.

Yes, it has no *rest mass*. The rest mass is what limits the
acceleration. You are thinking in a circle and you can't seem to get
out of the loop. Rest mass vs. relativistic mass. One is present even
at rest while the other is a result of the energy added as a function of
its speed.


No, I'm not thinking in circles. According to Einstein, mass is mass.

If you say so.

--

Rick

On 10/9/2014 10:41 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 10:03 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:56 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its
energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear
from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?


It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based
on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different
manifestations of the same thing.

So why do you have trouble understanding where the relativistic mass of
a photon comes from? Is the exact same thing but without the rest mass.


But if it's moving at the speed of light, it can't have any mass.
Einstein did not differentiate between rest mass and relativistic mass.

Now you are smoking dope...


And now you are trolling. This discussion is over.

But I would recommend you learn more of what you're talking about. I
may not understand the math, but I do understand Einstein's thoughts on
the subject. I've studied it enough.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 10/9/2014 11:00 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 10:41 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 10:03 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:56 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 9:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its
energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear
from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?


It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based
on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different
manifestations of the same thing.

So why do you have trouble understanding where the relativistic mass of
a photon comes from? Is the exact same thing but without the rest mass.


But if it's moving at the speed of light, it can't have any mass.
Einstein did not differentiate between rest mass and relativistic mass.

Now you are smoking dope...


And now you are trolling. This discussion is over.

But I would recommend you learn more of what you're talking about. I
may not understand the math, but I do understand Einstein's thoughts on
the subject. I've studied it enough.

Then you are going to miss the surprise ending! I figured out what you
aren't understanding... at least one thing you aren't understanding.

--

Rick

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 7:04 PM, rickman wrote:
On 10/9/2014 5:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 10/9/2014 1:04 PM, rickman wrote:

The only mass a photon has is that which is equivalent to its energy, E
= mc^2.


I understand it has no rest math. But where does the mass come from?
There has to be mass to exert pressure. Does the mass just appear from
nowhere? I doubt it...

When a proton is accelerated and the mass quadruples, where does that
extra mass come from?


It comes from the energy used in the acceleration of the proton, based
on Einstein's equations. Mass and energy are just different
manifestations of the same thing.

But by definition, anything moving at the speed of light must be
massless, because it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate
even an electron to that speed. Which means a photon cannot have mass.

Nor can they be accelerated.


--
Jim Pennino