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#2
July 9th 15, 08:57 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
John S wrote:
On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. Are just being argumentative or are you really that ignorant? What you say is true in a literal sense. However there is certainly such a thing as DC from the POV of what you want to know about a system being calculated or measured with sufficient and relevant accuracy and precision by treating it as DC. In real life this is remarkably common. -- Roger Hayter |
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#3
July 9th 15, 06:32 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
John S wrote:
On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. An ideal battery doesn't. -- Jim Pennino |
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#4
July 10th 15, 05:41 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
On 7/9/2015 12:32 AM, wrote:
John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. An ideal battery doesn't. Where can one be purchased? |
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#5
July 10th 15, 06:29 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
John S wrote:
On 7/9/2015 12:32 AM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. An ideal battery doesn't. Where can one be purchased? At the ideal battery store. -- Jim Pennino |
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#6
July 10th 15, 06:57 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
On 7/10/2015 12:29 AM, wrote:
John S wrote: On 7/9/2015 12:32 AM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. An ideal battery doesn't. Where can one be purchased? At the ideal battery store. C'mon, jimp, what concession from me will it take to get us back on track so we can discuss this topic in an adult and gentlemanly manner? |
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#7
July 10th 15, 06:29 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
John S wrote:
On 7/10/2015 12:29 AM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/9/2015 12:32 AM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. An ideal battery doesn't. Where can one be purchased? At the ideal battery store. C'mon, jimp, what concession from me will it take to get us back on track so we can discuss this topic in an adult and gentlemanly manner? When one analyzes circuits, it is done with ideal components. If the real world properties are important, they are in turn modeled with additional ideal components. For example, an ideal voltage source has constant voltage and zero source resistance forever. If the source resistance is important to the circuit, then it is modeled by putting an ideal resistor in series with the voltage source. Your statement: "Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise." is either just a childish strawman or you have no real clue how circuits, including electromagnetic circuits, are modeled. The only time where the fact that a real battery discharges would be of any significance is if you were analyzing a circuit for it's performance over a voltage range, in which casee one would step the voltage source. -- Jim Pennino |
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#8
July 10th 15, 07:05 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
On 7/10/2015 12:29 PM, wrote:
John S wrote: On 7/10/2015 12:29 AM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/9/2015 12:32 AM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. An ideal battery doesn't. Where can one be purchased? At the ideal battery store. C'mon, jimp, what concession from me will it take to get us back on track so we can discuss this topic in an adult and gentlemanly manner? When one analyzes circuits, it is done with ideal components. Yes, until you throw in the requirement that one must go get an off-the-shelf ham transmitter for measurements. If the real world properties are important, they are in turn modeled with additional ideal components. Yes. For example, an ideal voltage source has constant voltage and zero source resistance forever. Yes. If the source resistance is important to the circuit, then it is modeled by putting an ideal resistor in series with the voltage source. Yes. Your statement: "Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise." is either just a childish strawman or you have no real clue how circuits, including electromagnetic circuits, are modeled. This was in response to your asinine statement "At the ideal battery store." And, the whole thing started when I asked you to define the difference between AC and DC. There is no breakpoint, jimp, it is dependent on which tool we use to analyze the problem at hand. The only time where the fact that a real battery discharges would be of any significance is if you were analyzing a circuit for it's performance over a voltage range, in which casee one would step the voltage source. Okay, jimp. You did not answer my direct question, so I must assume you have no further interest in continuing this childish argument. I am tired of your nit-picky responses that we can all see through. They are designed exclusively to satisfy your ego and we don't need that in spite of the fact that you can be a valuable source of information. Yeah, I needled you right back because you refused to continue in a reasonable manner. From now on, I will not respond to you. I'm not saying that I will killfile you. I will just not respond to any of your childish pranks. I really don't have time to argue with your ego. That's too bad. |
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#9
July 9th 15, 02:11 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
On 7/8/2015 9:07 PM, John S wrote:
On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. Are just being argumentative or are you really that ignorant? Even if you have a theoretical voltage source, there are no circuits (other than imaginary) that have been on since before the big bang and will be on for all time in the future. -- Rick |
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#10
July 9th 15, 06:27 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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An antenna question--43 ft vertical
rickman wrote:
On 7/8/2015 9:07 PM, John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 4:48 PM, wrote: John S wrote: On 7/8/2015 12:47 PM, wrote: John S wrote: So, at 1Hz the law has changed, eh? What new law do I need to use? To be pendatic, there is only one set of physical laws that govern electromagnetics. However for DC all the complex parts of those laws have no effect and all the equations can be simplified to remove the complex parts. In the real, practical world people look upon this as two sets of laws, one for AC and one for DC. A good example of this is the transmission line which does not exist at DC; at DC a transmission line is nothing more than two wires with some resistance that is totally and only due to the ohmic resistance of the material that makes up the wires. So, is .01Hz AC or DC, Jim? How about 1Hz? 10Hz? Where does AC begin and DC end? It is called a limit. If there is NO time varying component, it is DC, otherwise it is AC. Are you playing devil's advocate or are you really that ignorant? Then there is no such thing as DC because even a battery looses voltage over a period of time. DC voltage sources have noise. Are just being argumentative or are you really that ignorant? Even if you have a theoretical voltage source, there are no circuits (other than imaginary) that have been on since before the big bang and will be on for all time in the future. So what? Is there some point to all this other than to be argumentative? How long before someone brings up the fact that a resistor generates AC signals as some kind of straw man objection to DC theory? -- Jim Pennino |
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