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Planning permission - a lesson from satellite launching?
Some of us have encountered the wrath of our local planning
committees when erecting antennae that seemed reasonable to us, but perhaps unreasonable to SFB neighbours. Could we conceive of an antenna, even possible an HF beam, that folds away into a single rod-like structure when not in use? I have in mind the way in which quite elaborate antennae and solar cells unfold from a satellite once it reaches orbit. Such an antenna, if it were to be deployed only during the hours of darkness, might also serve the needs of those who are obliged to use stealth antennae due to restrictive covenants on the buildings used as their shacks! |
Airy R. Bean wrote:
Some of us have encountered the wrath of our local planning committees when erecting antennae that seemed reasonable to us, but perhaps unreasonable to SFB neighbours. Could we conceive of an antenna, even possible an HF beam, that folds away into a single rod-like structure when not in use? Have you never seen a _wind-up_ mast with a beam on top? You really need to get out more! David. |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message
... Some of us have encountered the wrath of our local planning committees when erecting antennae that seemed reasonable to us, but perhaps unreasonable to SFB neighbours. Could we conceive of an antenna, even possible an HF beam, that folds away into a single rod-like structure when not in use? I have in mind the way in which quite elaborate antennae and solar cells unfold from a satellite once it reaches orbit. Such an antenna, if it were to be deployed only during the hours of darkness, might also serve the needs of those who are obliged to use stealth antennae due to restrictive covenants on the buildings used as their shacks! Simple Gareth, buy a scam mast, less than 12 foot tall so no planning problems. even Liz might approve... Or you could try an underground dipole, perfect for inter G on the lower bands, No RFI and a nice quiet receive. Even in your 70 foot garden you should be able to fit an 80M dipole in a straight line. Steve H |
-- Brian Reay www.g8osn.org.uk www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk FP#898 "Steve H" wrote in message ... "Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... Some of us have encountered the wrath of our local planning committees when erecting antennae that seemed reasonable to us, but perhaps unreasonable to SFB neighbours. Could we conceive of an antenna, even possible an HF beam, that folds away into a single rod-like structure when not in use? I have in mind the way in which quite elaborate antennae and solar cells unfold from a satellite once it reaches orbit. Such an antenna, if it were to be deployed only during the hours of darkness, might also serve the needs of those who are obliged to use stealth antennae due to restrictive covenants on the buildings used as their shacks! Simple Gareth, buy a scam mast, less than 12 foot tall so no planning problems. even Liz might approve... Or you could try an underground dipole, perfect for inter G on the lower bands, No RFI and a nice quiet receive. Even in your 70 foot garden you should be able to fit an 80M dipole in a straight line. There is also a commercial 'roll out' antenna about. I'm sure someone competent with a model engineering workshop could emulate it. I've used the flat metal tape from a retractable tape measure in the past for antenna elements- this could be the basis of a 'roll out' design. -- Brian Reay www.g8osn.org.uk www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk FP#898 |
Steve H wrote:
Simple Gareth, buy a scam mast, less than 12 foot tall so no planning problems. even Liz might approve... Not so, GPDO 1995 states that structures (masts and antennas) under 3m (~9'9") do not require planning permission, if sited at least 2m (~6'6") from any boundary, and at least 5m (~16'3") from a neighbours building. This is modified to the height of your ridge line (not chimney) visible by an average sized adult standing on the pavement at the front of your dwelling, if you have the structure attached to one of the existing walls of your property (not the front wall visible from the pavement). Exclusions are made for non-commercial antennas that are similar in size to a Broadcast TV Antenna & Mast, which may be erected on the chimney (I've had a 2 ele 6m beam on a rotator excluded under this provision). At my last QTH, I had no planning permission for a ground mounted Butternut HF9V, the Planning Enforcement Officer that made a visit, said that an application was not required as it was under 4m tall (~13'0")?!? I'm still within the area managed by the same Planning Authority, ;-) M5WJF |
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
... -- Brian Reay www.g8osn.org.uk www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk FP#898 "Steve H" wrote in message ... There is also a commercial 'roll out' antenna about. I'm sure someone competent with a model engineering workshop could emulate it. I've used the flat metal tape from a retractable tape measure in the past for antenna elements- this could be the basis of a 'roll out' design. -- Brian Reay www.g8osn.org.uk www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk FP#898 Nice idea, what about combining that with the feed mechanism from an old printer. I was going to dump an old OKI microline printer, the feed motor is a reversible stepper motor so should be PC controllable. Steve H |
"Steve H" wrote in message
... There is also a commercial 'roll out' antenna about. I'm sure someone competent with a model engineering workshop could emulate it. I've used the flat metal tape from a retractable tape measure in the past for antenna elements- this could be the basis of a 'roll out' design. Nice idea, what about combining that with the feed mechanism from an old printer. I was going to dump an old OKI microline printer, the feed motor is a reversible stepper motor so should be PC controllable. Sounds good. I'd thought of using a similar motor for a remote ATU. -- Brian Reay www.g8osn.org.uk www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk FP#898 |
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:19:28 -0000, Airy R. Bean wrote:
Some of us have encountered the wrath of our local planning committees when erecting antennae that seemed reasonable to us, but perhaps unreasonable to SFB neighbours. Could we conceive of an antenna, even possible an HF beam, that folds away into a single rod-like structure when not in use? I have in mind the way in which quite elaborate antennae and solar cells unfold from a satellite once it reaches orbit. ...and, achieves zero gravity, zero wind resistance, and zero local bureaucratic control. HI!HI! HNY Jonesy -- | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __ | 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK |
The man next door has a large erection in the back garden, which is
unsightly and dangerous. !! Is This is the sort of complaint they send to the council, Mr Bean ?? |
Airy R. Bean wrote:
Some of us have encountered the wrath of our local planning committees when erecting antennae that seemed reasonable to us, but perhaps unreasonable to SFB neighbours. Could we conceive of an antenna, even possible an HF beam, that folds away into a single rod-like structure when not in use? I have in mind the way in which quite elaborate antennae and solar cells unfold from a satellite once it reaches orbit. Such an antenna, if it were to be deployed only during the hours of darkness, might also serve the needs of those who are obliged to use stealth antennae due to restrictive covenants on the buildings used as their shacks! I know the ideal 'antenna' for you, Beanie, it's called a 'dummy load', affordable even on benefits from your local CB shop. You could also try replacing your broadband modem with a dummy load and leave Usenet in peace. ....(_!_)... |
jonny wrote:
The man next door has a large erection in the back garden, which is unsightly and dangerous. !! Is This is the sort of complaint they send to the council, Mr Bean ?? Are you sure this relates to Beanie? 'Unsightly and dangerous', YES, but 'large erection'? -- ;) 73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint. http://turner-smith.co.uk |
Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
Your experience may vary, but an informal preliminary chat with the help of some mocked-up images can never do any harm. Yes, the very approach I'm considering for two masts in the garden, one at 20ft to support one end of a 180ft doublet, and the other at 30ft to support some VHF/UHF antennas, a 2.4GHz fixed dish towards an VHF NFD Contest Site (line-of-sight at 23Km!), and I'm also considering another Dipole or Inverted-V for HF. The 20ft mast will shadow an existing BT telegraph pole (had thought about using it!), and shouldn't be a problem in terms of planning or interference (well my telephone isn't connected to it), but the 30ft mast will have to be a wind up design as I want to experiment, and because I'm a long way down the rear garden, it could be 60ft tall and still wouldn't be seen from the pavement at the front of the house. 30ft or 40ft would be ample here as I'm on a hill anyway, and shall only initially be using two small beams on a rotator, for 2m and 23cms. M5WJF |
wrote:
Ian White, G3SEK wrote: Your experience may vary, but an informal preliminary chat with the help of some mocked-up images can never do any harm. Yes, the very approach I'm considering for two masts in the garden, one at 20ft to support one end of a 180ft doublet, and the other at 30ft to support some VHF/UHF antennas, a 2.4GHz fixed dish towards an VHF NFD Contest Site (line-of-sight at 23Km!), and I'm also considering another Dipole or Inverted-V for HF. The 20ft mast will shadow an existing BT telegraph pole (had thought about using it!), and shouldn't be a problem in terms of planning or interference (well my telephone isn't connected to it), but the 30ft mast will have to be a wind up design as I want to experiment, and because I'm a long way down the rear garden, it could be 60ft tall and still wouldn't be seen from the pavement at the front of the house. 30ft or 40ft would be ample here as I'm on a hill anyway, and shall only initially be using two small beams on a rotator, for 2m and 23cms. OK then, try to get into the neighbours' gardens and take some photographs you can draw on. -- 73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek |
Oh dear Bean's on the Wacky Backy again. - Stick to Special Brew OM !!
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What if you don't have a pavement at the front of the dwelling (serious
question). Incidentally none of the antennas are visable from the front of my "dwelling" (it looks like a tall ship race at the back mind) so I guess I am ok. Can I insist that my neighbour removes the two 80 foot oak trees he has grown in his garden? |
G1LVN wrote:
What if you don't have a pavement at the front of the dwelling (serious question). Incidentally none of the antennas are visable from the front of my "dwelling" (it looks like a tall ship race at the back mind) so I guess I am ok. Well, the Planning Enforcement Officer must make a determination of which side of your house is the front, and view the house from standing at least 6ft from your boundary. Can I insist that my neighbour removes the two 80 foot oak trees he has grown in his garden? Possibly not, but you may erect an 80ft mast and almost certainly gain approved planning, since stating that he has two 80ft trees next door will allow you to maintain that the visual impact of your tower/antennas various, will not be over-powering to the local area. ;-) M5WJF |
jonny wrote:
The man next door has a large erection in the back garden, which is unsightly and dangerous. !! Is This is the sort of complaint they send to the council, Mr Bean ?? Has anybody ever erected an antenna with slanted poles and straight down guy wires? That would allow the antenna to be as long as the lot. ---------------------------------------- |\ antenna /| | \ / | | \ / | | \pole pole/ |guy | \ / | | \ / | -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:00:43 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote: Has anybody ever erected an antenna with slanted poles and straight down guy wires? That would allow the antenna to be as long as the lot. True. But in your design the antenna wire will be carrying serious tension loads in addition to its own weight, and you would need aerial components suitably rated for this. -- from Aero Spike |
"jonny" wrote in message ... The man next door has a large erection in the back garden, which is unsightly and dangerous. !! Is This is the sort of complaint they send to the council, Mr Bean ?? Is that Mr. Hugh E. Rection? |
It depends on each council - many of them have delegated
powers for minor permissions to the officers. If you google on such, you find a large number of minutes of meetings when the delegation was voted in. "Ian White, G3SEK" wrote in message ... Actually Planning Officers have more discretion about "minor developments" than they will readily admit to. |
"G1LVN" wrote in message oups.com... Can I insist that my neighbour removes the two 80 foot oak trees he has grown in his garden? If your neighbour 'has grown' two 80 foot oak trees, he must have some pretty spectacular manure...Probably, recycled 'Airy Bean' postings ;-) Regards tox |
Further thoughts....
In order to be able to both release and then fold up the antenna, a mechanism based on two tendons, not too dissimilar to the human knee and elbow joints would be required. Consider the flexing effect of each of your fingers - one tendon at the back and one at the front. And in order to maintain good RF contact across the joint, perhaps the use of braid recovered from coax cable? "Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... Could we conceive of an antenna, even possible an HF beam, that folds away into a single rod-like structure when not in use? |
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:54:17 GMT, "tox" wrote:
"G1LVN" wrote in message roups.com... Can I insist that my neighbour removes the two 80 foot oak trees he has grown in his garden? If your neighbour 'has grown' two 80 foot oak trees, he must have some pretty spectacular manure...Probably, recycled 'Airy Bean' postings ;-) And has been around for some considerable time presumably. Jock. -- "The graveyards are full of indispensable men." - Charles de Gaulle (1890-1970) |
Airy R.Bean wrote:
And in order to maintain good RF contact across the joint, perhaps the use of braid recovered from coax cable? Be nice to see the effect the weather would have on the braid though after a few months - turn it nice and black. David. |
"David Edmonds" wrote in message ... Airy R.Bean wrote: And in order to maintain good RF contact across the joint, perhaps the use of braid recovered from coax cable? Be nice to see the effect the weather would have on the braid though after a few months - turn it nice and black. Another one of Gareth's not so good ideas. Gareth, has ANYTHING of yours even worked? |
do i have this read right?
you're planning to go down to the cemetry, dig up the dead bodies and chop off their legs and arms so you can use their two tendons for raising and lowering your mast? great stuff beanie, you've surpassed yourself this time! dr. x In order to be able to both release and then fold up the antenna, a mechanism based on two tendons, not too dissimilar to the human knee and elbow joints would be required. |
Thanks for that. Pretty useful those trees then. There are a number of
large trees in the village and have to be very big to survive the winds at this altitude. Not sure how a tower would fair up here - and probably not necessary according to some coverage map simulations I've been doing - http://home.btconnect.com/g1lvn/eqso/maps/ |
It's the altitude, only the big ones can cope with the near constant
winds up here - the little ones just get uprooted. There are at least 3 over 80ft. |
G1LVN wrote:
Thanks for that. Pretty useful those trees then. There are a number of large trees in the village and have to be very big to survive the winds at this altitude. Not sure how a tower would fair up here - and probably not necessary according to some coverage map simulations I've been doing - http://home.btconnect.com/g1lvn/eqso/maps/ Interesting projections/simulations, how did you make these maps? I'm interested in producing maps of such detail for various locations across the West Midlands Region. M5WJF |
http://home.btconnect.com/g1lvn/eqso/coverage.htm
has links to coverage map software from VE2DBE and "G8GTZ how to get started guide". The G8GTZ stuff is essentially because it's a bugger to get the altitude date for the UK loaded in. Takes a while to get it working, but once you have mastered it the worlds your lobster. It's all freeware as well - works as well as lot of commercial stuff which costs thousands of pounds Regards Gareth www.g1lvn.org.uk |
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Have a look at what G3TVU of Derby Raynet did. I have a feeling you may
want to do something similar. http://www.cplus.org/rmw/ian/Walk%20best%20sites.htm |
G1LVN wrote:
http://home.btconnect.com/g1lvn/eqso/coverage.htm has links to coverage map software from VE2DBE and "G8GTZ how to get started guide". The G8GTZ stuff is essentially because it's a bugger to get the altitude date for the UK loaded in. Takes a while to get it working, but once you have mastered it the worlds your lobster. It's all freeware as well - works as well as lot of commercial stuff which costs thousands of pounds Regards Gareth www.g1lvn.org.uk Thanks Gareth. 73 de Wayne M5WJF |
G1LVN wrote:
Have a look at what G3TVU of Derby Raynet did. I have a feeling you may want to do something similar. http://www.cplus.org/rmw/ian/Walk%20best%20sites.htm A lot of work it seems (at least in working out how to use the software initially), particularly as several applications appear to be used in a modular fashion, I'll have to take a look at it in more depth in a few days time. I do something similar to this when producing MeteorSat-8 Imagery from HRIT Data. M5WJF |
"Ed Price" wrote:
: : "jonny" wrote in message : ... : The man next door has a large erection in the back garden, which is : unsightly and dangerous. !! : Is This is the sort of complaint they send to the council, Mr Bean ?? : : : Is that Mr. Hugh E. Rection? no couldnt be... hes a cb'er who went back to cb after getting a ham licence |
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