Low dipole performance question
 

As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work - it's flat
(non inverted V), it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

The antenna is a coax fed (no balun), 220' long 80/160
trap dipole.

By my way of thinking, this antenna should almost be a
NVIS antenna.

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?
--
73's es gd dx de Ken KGØWX
Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #1055,
List Owner, Yahoo! E-groups:
VX-2R & FT-857

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:20:44 -0600, "Ken Bessler"
wrote:

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?
The enjoyment of such an "impossibility?"

Hi Ken,

The how you are asking for could go by any number of explanations, and
each may sound as plausible as help from Extra Terrestrials. One way
to look at your antenna description (especially with the up front
declaration of no choking) is that you have a top loaded, tuned T
antenna (vertical instead of horizontal) planted in the highest
conductive soil in the U.S.

One could only wonder if you couldn't accomplish what you did.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Ken Bessler" wrote
As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work - it's flat
(non inverted V), it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

The antenna is a coax fed (no balun), 220' long 80/160
trap dipole.

By my way of thinking, this antenna should almost be a
NVIS antenna.

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?
--
73's es gd dx de Ken KGØWX
Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #1055,
List Owner, Yahoo! E-groups:
VX-2R & FT-857

fwiw, last night the low bands had phenomenal propagation.

At about 0600z I was copying 2182 khz loud and clear in Virginia Beach, VA
from USCG ComSta Kodiak Alaska, Canadian Coast Guard St Johns, Newfoundland,
and USCG Group San Juan, Puerto Rico.

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Ken Bessler wrote:
If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?

Feedline radiation? I once talked to New Zealand
on 40m SSB using a G5RV at 30 ft.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Ken Bessler wrote:
If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?

Feedline radiation? I once talked to New Zealand
on 40m SSB using a G5RV at 30 ft.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


I thought about that since I don't use a balun (I know, I know -
I should). My feedline drops 20' down from the feedpoint then
runs ENE to my house for 40'. I've thought about a balun but
I only use the antenna on 160 & 80 and it seems to work well
so I don't want to mess with sucess.

--
73's es gd dx de Ken KGØWX
Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #1055,
List Owner, Yahoo! E-groups:
VX-2R & FT-857

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:20:44 -0600, "Ken Bessler"
wrote:

As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work - it's flat
(non inverted V), it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

The antenna is a coax fed (no balun), 220' long 80/160
trap dipole.

By my way of thinking, this antenna should almost be a
NVIS antenna.

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?


YES, It's called Propagation! :)

I was on 75 last night with a similar situation for 75 meters. I
wasn't heard by stations in the southeast, an area I usually cover
very well, but instead had to pass traffic to Illinois to be relayed
to Alabama to be relayed to Kansas. Lots of long skip but I couldn't
talk 60 miles to Columbia, SC.

73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:20:44 -0600, "Ken Bessler"
wrote:

As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work - it's flat
(non inverted V), it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

The antenna is a coax fed (no balun), 220' long 80/160
trap dipole.

By my way of thinking, this antenna should almost be a
NVIS antenna.

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?

Yes, it's spelled "Tucson."

And Don is a superb operator.

Hi Ken,

As you are finding out, "working" is a variable definition. Optimum
antennas would be 6 elements a mike high, but antennas do work at all
heights above ground, and with the help of propagation can do great things.
All my antennas are below 40 feet off the ground and I still make contacts,
including DX contacts, with vertical and wire dipoles and a G5RV.

Good luck and good DX,

Bill, W4WNT

"Ken Bessler" wrote in message
news:M9OMd.2187$GT.297@okepread01...
As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work - it's flat
(non inverted V), it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

The antenna is a coax fed (no balun), 220' long 80/160
trap dipole.

By my way of thinking, this antenna should almost be a
NVIS antenna.

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?
--
73's es gd dx de Ken KGØWX
Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #1055,
List Owner, Yahoo! E-groups:
VX-2R & FT-857

You seem to be under the impression that an antenna fits into only one
of two categories, "works" and "doesn't work". That's the first mistake.

You also seem to believe that all the power you radiate goes in only one
direction or at one elevation angle. That's the second mistake.

Once you learn a little about the basic operation of antennas, and how
to interpret a radiation pattern, the answer to your question will
become clear.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Ken Bessler wrote:
As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work - it's flat
(non inverted V), it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

The antenna is a coax fed (no balun), 220' long 80/160
trap dipole.

By my way of thinking, this antenna should almost be a
NVIS antenna.

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?

Ken Bessler wrote:
As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work -

I shouldn't either, but I'm too young to retire.

it's flat
(non inverted V),

Best way to have one, as far as ground losses...

it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south

It's *maximum* radiation is going e/w...
Not all of it...

and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

Well, at least it taller than I can reach...

The antenna is a coax fed (no balun), 220' long 80/160
trap dipole.

By my way of thinking, this antenna should almost be a
NVIS antenna.

No almost about it...It is...

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

The same way I've been working EU, JA, etc, etc using
a 40 ft high dipole on 160, 80......The bands are in
better than usual shape...I don't usually hear JA's
on 160m, with a 40 ft dipole very well...But lately,
I am...

Am I missing something here?

Dunno...If you are, I'm too far away to be a likely
suspect...MK

ooops....I said.,
it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south

It's *maximum* radiation is going e/w...
Not all of it...

typing too fast for my own good....
yea, if it's e/w, *maximum* radiation is broadside
at n/s like you say...Assuming it's pretty close to
a 1/2 wave or so, and not real long for the WL...

Ken Bessler wrote:
As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work - it's flat
(non inverted V), it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

The antenna is a coax fed (no balun), 220' long 80/160
trap dipole.

By my way of thinking, this antenna should almost be a
NVIS antenna.

If so, how did I manage a QSO with K7NN on 1.893
last night? Tuscon, AZ from Wichita, KS on 100w.
EM17ip to DM42li on 160m at 04:00z

Am I missing something here?

Hi Ken,

As many have already pointed out. Propagation conditions account for a
lot. but you also have some misconceptions.. a dipole on 80 or 160m
that low to the ground exhibits almost omni directional patter not much
of a lobe off the sides. So the orientation is not all that important.

high angle radiation can work out quite well on the low bands at times,
and is useful under certain conditions. I've found here that my
Vertical on 160m is not always the best dx catcher. sometimes not often
the dipole beats it out on DX signals.. it all depend upon propagation
condx. As one old timer told me many years ago.. the Ionosphere is a
get leveler of signals.

73 Dave Kc1di

P.S. the Moral is not give up trying if your antenna is only 40 or less
feet in the air a great number of hams around the world are in the same
boat. There calls may not ever be in the top 10 of the DXCC list or
winner of the Weekend DX test , but they have lots of fun. and part of
the fun is the unpredictable nature of radio waves.. I've always found
it interesting to call CQ and have someone answer weather it's next door
or around the world. it's still fun :) Sort of like fishing isn't it.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

As I understand it, my dipole shoudn't work - it's flat
(non inverted V), it's laid out running east / west so
the radiation should be going north and south and it's
only 20-25 feet above ground.

Hello Ken ....My OCF dipole at the same height can only be categorized as a
real piece of crap.
Hopefully I can get something up better in the near future but that depends
on the neighbor's cooperation
with using a maple tree in her yard. I ran inverted vees for 30 years at 40
to 50 feet and have had excellent results
on 80 and 40. I am glad to hear that your set up is working.

God Bless ... 73 Tom Popovic KI3R Belle Vernon Pa.