G5RV vs. Half Square on 20m
I understand that strictly speaking a G5RV isn't a multi-band antenna,
but my primary use of it is on 20 meters where it works pretty well as a 3/2 half-wavelength doublet. It's up about 55 feet now as a flat-top and I've been working plenty of DX with only about 300-400 watts out. Never satisfied, and always wanting improvement (it's a compulsion!), I'm wondering whether a half-square like the Windom HSQ listed here would be an improvement on 20 meters: http://www.antennasmore.com/windomhq.htm I've read that at 20 meters and above, there is more benefit to being horizontally-polarized at a decent height, so maybe I'm better off with the G5RV? Thanks for any thoughts. Chuck KB5GC |
Chuck W. wrote:
I understand that strictly speaking a G5RV isn't a multi-band antenna, but my primary use of it is on 20 meters where it works pretty well as a 3/2 half-wavelength doublet. It's up about 55 feet now as a flat-top and I've been working plenty of DX with only about 300-400 watts out. Never satisfied, and always wanting improvement (it's a compulsion!), I'm wondering whether a half-square like the Windom HSQ listed here would be an improvement on 20 meters: http://www.antennasmore.com/windomhq.htm I've read that at 20 meters and above, there is more benefit to being horizontally-polarized at a decent height, so maybe I'm better off with the G5RV? Thanks for any thoughts. Chuck KB5GC Hi Chuck, Cebik conclueds the following when speaking of the Half Square antenna. " Installing SCVs too high, especially half squares, can easily defeat the main functional advantage of the antennas. Designing them for 20 meters is a marginal enterprise, and above 20 meters, other antenna types will normally out-perform the SCVs. The SCVs do come into their own again until the VHF region, where they can be mounted many wavelengths above ground and their largely vertical polarization combined with a beamwidth around 60 degrees may be superior in some applications to Yagis turned on their side. Except for these very general comments, I have avoided comparisons with other types of antennas. Although a thorough comparison would be useful, the amount of material there is to present on SCVs and the shortage of space within which to present it suggests that this must be (as they sometimes say in textbooks) "an exercise left to the reader." --Cebik. you can read the whole article at : http://www.cebik.com/scv/scv4.html My best guest is that at 55 feet the G5RV is a better all round antenna on 20 Meters. 73 Dave Kc1di |
Thanks, Dave! It's always a temptation to fiddle with things, but end
up changing them for the worse. I'll leave well enough alone for now! -Chuck |
Okay, so here's a slightly-off-subject follow-up. I looked thru
cebik's web site and didn't see this addressed: Since the G5RV isn't particularly resonant on 17 and 15 meters, if I connected a dipole for each of these bands, in parallel, at the same feedpoint as the G5RV would this work effectively? Way back when, I recall putting multiple dipoles at the same feedpoint without incident, but I haven't really seen this discussed much. Intuition suggests that they would interact negatively and impedance would be wacky. -Chuck |
Chuck W. wrote:
Never satisfied, and always wanting improvement (it's a compulsion!), I'm wondering whether a half-square like the Windom HSQ listed here would be an improvement (over the G5RV) on 20 meters: http://www.antennasmore.com/windomhq.htm Suggest you obtain a copy of EZNEC (free demo available at www.eznec.com) and observe the radiation patterns. In a nutshell, the G5RV will outperform the HSQ in four directions. The HSQ will outperform the G5RV on 20m in the directions of the G5RV pattern nulls on 20m because the HSQ distributes the RF energy differently. From their web page, the HSQ radiation pattern looks more like a vertical on 20m. So the answer is: In some directions, you will be disappointed with the HSQ. In other directions, you will be satisfied with the HSQ. I personally don't see how you would ever be satisfied with the price of the HSQ. :-) -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Chuck W. wrote:
Okay, so here's a slightly-off-subject follow-up. I looked thru cebik's web site and didn't see this addressed: Since the G5RV isn't particularly resonant on 17 and 15 meters, if I connected a dipole for each of these bands, in parallel, at the same feedpoint as the G5RV would this work effectively? That's what antenna modeling programs are good at. There would probably be some interaction on the higher bands. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Chuck W." wrote in message oups.com... Okay, so here's a slightly-off-subject follow-up. I looked thru cebik's web site and didn't see this addressed: Since the G5RV isn't particularly resonant on 17 and 15 meters, if I connected a dipole for each of these bands, in parallel, at the same feedpoint as the G5RV would this work effectively? I had dipoles cut for 40, 17, and 12 m all in parallel, and it works fine, so long as you can get several feet of separation between the ends of the dipoles and the other wires. Just tune the highest frequency antenna first and then work down. This was for a 50 Ohm feedline. A real G5RV uses 1/2 wavelength at 20 m of 450 Ohm line; this is transparent at 20 m, but makes the antenna usable on 80. The 450 Ohm line would probably mess up any parallel dipoles you hang across the G5RV. Tam/WB2TT Way back when, I recall putting multiple dipoles at the same feedpoint without incident, but I haven't really seen this discussed much. Intuition suggests that they would interact negatively and impedance would be wacky. -Chuck |
The performance of a G5RV as a multi-band dipole, because of its
length of coax feedline, is somewhat worse than any other random length of dipole fed with a random length of feedline of random impedance. Remove the coax, bring the feedline all the way back to the shack, and the G5RV is just as good as any other simple multi-band, multi-directional antenna. As with other random length antennas a tuner is always useful. ---- Reg. G4FGQ. |
Is it true, though, that when the ladderline/windowline gets wet it
negatively impacts the efficiency of the transmission line? |
On 25 Apr 2005 16:54:36 -0700, "Chuck W." wrote:
Is it true, though, that when the ladderline/windowline gets wet it negatively impacts the efficiency of the transmission line? That's true, SWR increases, but how much do you want to operate when it is raining? bob k5qwg |
Just tune the highest frequency antenna first
and then work down.......... It's much easier if you start low, and go up... If you have interaction, it's almost always a "higher" band. So if you start low, you'll only have to do each, once...Going the other way, can have you chasing your tail after a while... IE: the higher bands will usually change when adding the lower bands if the wires couple... Rarely the case, the other way around. I've used parallel dipoles for years... My favorite config for everyday use dipoles. Once, even had paralleled turnstiles for 80/40 on one coax... At the present, I have 160/80/40 on one coax.. To make a noticable difference over a dipole, you'll need to get some serious gain...If you don't get at least 4-5 db over the dipole, I hardly think it's worth the hassle...That G5RV would have appx 2-3 db broadside over a 1/2 dipole, assuming you aren't losing power feeding it...:( I agree with Reg, I'd either run coax, or ladder line, but not both....To me , running both is an exercise in sillyness...But to many, their own... Ladder line, if you have a tuner, or coax, if single band, or a remote tuner, etc... .................................................. Is it true, though, that when the ladderline/windowline gets wet it negatively impacts the efficiency of the transmission line? .................................................. ... Depends on the ladder line, and whats in between the wires... 300 ohm line can be bad, and also other lines that have no "windows", etc between the wires...Supposably, the "windowed" ladder line is less effected by rain. Open ladder line with insulators, almost no impact at all...I've seen 300 ohm line turn near useless on UHF when raining hard. I used it to a large UHF TV antenna I used to receive ATV. Great when dry, but get it wet.....:( MK |
Bob Miller wrote: On 25 Apr 2005 16:54:36 -0700, "Chuck W." wrote: Is it true, though, that when the ladderline/windowline gets wet it negatively impacts the efficiency of the transmission line? That's true, SWR increases, but how much do you want to operate when it is raining? I understand that some amateurs used to wax their ladder line. Or was that they soaked the wooden spreaders in hot wax? - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article ,
I understand that some amateurs used to wax their ladder line. Or was that they soaked the wooden spreaders in hot wax? I understand that the latter technique was quite commonly used. A block of paraffin (available at many grocery stores for use in the canning of vegetables), a large double boiler (electric heat preferred over gas, I believe?), a bunch of dowels cut to size and end-notched and drilled for twist-ties, and a few minutes of soaking in the molten paraffin. This should impregnate the pores in the wood and do a pretty good job of water-proofing the spreaders. A more modern approach (perhaps more convenient but I'm not sure it's any better electrically) is to apply two or three good coats of spar varnish or outdoor-rated polyurethane to the spreaders after notching and drilling. Diluting the first coat by about 30% with mineral spirits may aid penetration and improve the seal; sanding between coats may be required for proper adhesion. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
wrote in message oups.com... Just tune the highest frequency antenna first and then work down.......... .............................. You are right, of course . I got mixed up. Thanks for pointing it out. Tam/WB2TT |
That's true, SWR increases, but how much do you want to operate
when it is raining? ================================ There's no reason why the SWR should not improve when the line gets wet. On 50 percent of occasions it probably does. In which case it is probably not noticed. |
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 03:01:19 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
wrote: That's true, SWR increases, but how much do you want to operate when it is raining? ================================ There's no reason why the SWR should not improve when the line gets wet. On 50 percent of occasions it probably does. In which case it is probably not noticed. You're right, I probably don't notice whether the swr is higher or lower; all I really notice is about half the time when the line is wet I have to deviate from my usual tuner settings. bob k5qwg |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:56 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com