Yes. I frequently find I overtax a components max. ratings (the smell of
burnt electronics is an acquired taste, like tobacco smoke and beer
grin)... I tend to pick up large quantities at auctions and surplus
outlets... replacing "sane design methods" with brute force and the
wholesale slaughter of un-counted components...



And, one should use caution with my labeling of components--I have boxes of
silicone diodes which are "similar" to 1n914's--and pounds of mis-valued
resistors/caps (the manufacturers just don't realize the value of a resistor
marked as one-ohm--when the actual value is one meg-ohm!!!)



"Whatever works!" sometimes becomes, "A list of what doesn't work!"



Quite often, the answer lies in "what I haven't tried..."



I don't expect all to be able to appreciate my "methods"... but, it breaks
the monotony of having to be so precise--which my field places upon me...



Warmest regards,

John



"Tam/WB2TT" wrote in message
...
|
| "Cecil Moore" wrote in message
| ...
| John Smith wrote:
| Well, If there is a voltage, there is a current (albeit, at times very
| small)--the opposite is also true, ohms law is standing proof...
|
| Yes, but the amplitude and phase relationship of current to
| voltage can have any possible value and there are an infinite
| number of possibilities. In the equation, Z = V/I, you cannot
| determine Z unless you know BOTH V and I.
|
| Why can't I measure the standing wave ratio as a ratio of power, ...
|
| You need both voltage and current to determine power. Your design
| senses only current.
| --
| 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
|
|
| Cecil is right. Also, the 100K implies 200V to get 2ma of LED current. The
| 1N914 won't hack that.
|
| Tam/WB2TT
|
| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
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|
|

Errr, make that that "silicon diodes", I keep gettin' 'em confused with the
girls! grin

Warmest regards,
John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
| Yes. I frequently find I overtax a components max. ratings (the smell of
| burnt electronics is an acquired taste, like tobacco smoke and beer
| grin)... I tend to pick up large quantities at auctions and surplus
| outlets... replacing "sane design methods" with brute force and the
| wholesale slaughter of un-counted components...
|
|
|
| And, one should use caution with my labeling of components--I have boxes
of
| silicone diodes which are "similar" to 1n914's--and pounds of mis-valued
| resistors/caps (the manufacturers just don't realize the value of a
resistor
| marked as one-ohm--when the actual value is one meg-ohm!!!)
|
|
|
| "Whatever works!" sometimes becomes, "A list of what doesn't work!"
|
|
|
| Quite often, the answer lies in "what I haven't tried..."
|
|
|
| I don't expect all to be able to appreciate my "methods"... but, it
breaks
| the monotony of having to be so precise--which my field places upon me...
|
|
|
| Warmest regards,
|
| John
|
|
|
| "Tam/WB2TT" wrote in message
| ...
||
|| "Cecil Moore" wrote in message
|| ...
|| John Smith wrote:
|| Well, If there is a voltage, there is a current (albeit, at times very
|| small)--the opposite is also true, ohms law is standing proof...
||
|| Yes, but the amplitude and phase relationship of current to
|| voltage can have any possible value and there are an infinite
|| number of possibilities. In the equation, Z = V/I, you cannot
|| determine Z unless you know BOTH V and I.
||
|| Why can't I measure the standing wave ratio as a ratio of power, ...
||
|| You need both voltage and current to determine power. Your design
|| senses only current.
|| --
|| 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
||
||
|| Cecil is right. Also, the 100K implies 200V to get 2ma of LED current.
The
|| 1N914 won't hack that.
||
|| Tam/WB2TT
||
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|| News==----
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120,000+
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|| =----
||
||
|
|

While there's nothing wrong with this kind of approach when you're
making one of something for your own use, the resulting design isn't
likely to be useful to others because of the slim chance of someone else
being able to make a copy work.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

John Smith wrote:
Yes. I frequently find I overtax a components max. ratings (the smell of
burnt electronics is an acquired taste, like tobacco smoke and beer
grin)... I tend to pick up large quantities at auctions and surplus
outlets... replacing "sane design methods" with brute force and the
wholesale slaughter of un-counted components...



And, one should use caution with my labeling of components--I have boxes of
silicone diodes which are "similar" to 1n914's--and pounds of mis-valued
resistors/caps (the manufacturers just don't realize the value of a resistor
marked as one-ohm--when the actual value is one meg-ohm!!!)



"Whatever works!" sometimes becomes, "A list of what doesn't work!"



Quite often, the answer lies in "what I haven't tried..."



I don't expect all to be able to appreciate my "methods"... but, it breaks
the monotony of having to be so precise--which my field places upon me...



Warmest regards,

John

Roy:

Yes. that is true... and an excellent point, now the others can't say they
haven't been warned...

Thanks Roy...

Warmest regards,
John

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
| While there's nothing wrong with this kind of approach when you're
| making one of something for your own use, the resulting design isn't
| likely to be useful to others because of the slim chance of someone else
| being able to make a copy work.
|
| Roy Lewallen, W7EL
|
| John Smith wrote:
| Yes. I frequently find I overtax a components max. ratings (the smell
of
| burnt electronics is an acquired taste, like tobacco smoke and beer
| grin)... I tend to pick up large quantities at auctions and surplus
| outlets... replacing "sane design methods" with brute force and the
| wholesale slaughter of un-counted components...
|
|
|
| And, one should use caution with my labeling of components--I have boxes
of
| silicone diodes which are "similar" to 1n914's--and pounds of mis-valued
| resistors/caps (the manufacturers just don't realize the value of a
resistor
| marked as one-ohm--when the actual value is one meg-ohm!!!)
|
|
|
| "Whatever works!" sometimes becomes, "A list of what doesn't work!"
|
|
|
| Quite often, the answer lies in "what I haven't tried..."
|
|
|
| I don't expect all to be able to appreciate my "methods"... but, it
breaks
| the monotony of having to be so precise--which my field places upon
me...
|
|
|
| Warmest regards,
|
| John

Yes.
Well, take a look at this one, now this one just might deserve a patent....
http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/john_s.jpg

Ya just think it might work--now this WOULD be simple!!! grin

Warmest regards,
John
--
I AM ONE-IN-A-MILLION!!!!!
Too bad the other 999,999 got there first.. frown


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
| John Smith wrote:
| http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/swr1.jpg
| http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/swr2.jpg
|
| This should prove as "proof of concept" that an "indicator" using such a
| toroid should darn well work! ... at the very least--in the fashion I
am
| attempting...
|
| If you will notice, your earlier versions did not sample
| the voltage. These designs sample the voltage through C1
| and C2. The current is sampled by T1. The voltages are
| phasor-added to the current to obtain signals proportional
| to forward power and reflected power. Those voltage sampling
| caps are what were missing from your earlier designs.
| --
| 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
|
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John Smith wrote:
Well, take a look at this one, now this one just might deserve a patent....
http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/john_s.jpg

Something like might work at a preset QRP level if you
can get enough turns on the toroid. What is the reverse
voltage rating on the LEDs? How about connecting coax
ground and logic ground on the schematic so Kirchhoff
will be happy?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Cecil:

That is a "simplified drawing", no provision there is shown to "protect the
LEDs", especially from too high a reverse voltage--doesn't that just make
you think, "I know how to do that! grin"

Where is your "experimenters curriosity", haven't I given you enough to make
ya wanna build one?!!!

If you need a few parts, I got 'em... LOL!!!

Where is that "ham spirit", is this why there are so few hams here, and only
about ~20% of them join the "ARRL Church?", ahhh, I tell ya', faith in "God"
is dwindling... grin

Warmest regards,
John
--
I AM ONE-IN-A-MILLION!!!!!
Too bad the other 999,999 got there first.. frown

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
| John Smith wrote:
| Well, take a look at this one, now this one just might deserve a
patent....
| http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/john_s.jpg
|
| Something like might work at a preset QRP level if you
| can get enough turns on the toroid. What is the reverse
| voltage rating on the LEDs? How about connecting coax
| ground and logic ground on the schematic so Kirchhoff
| will be happy?
| --
| 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
|
|
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I can't help but notice, humbly...

I seem to get A LOT more responses which point out what does not work, and
not what WILL work... and, while that IS a help... not quite what one most
desires on his trek though life...

However, when it was pointed out to Edison, his large amount of "failures"
before success... he said something to the effect that he had not had
"failures" but had leaned--2,000 ways NOT to make a light bulb...

Mindset is important, one frequently finds what one sets out to find (or
accomplish)... I was just looking for one way which works--sounded simple,
at first...

John
--
I AM ONE-IN-A-MILLION!!!!!
Too bad the other 999,999 got there first.. frown

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
| This is a SWR bridge I built using leds and a homemade "directional
| coupler."
|
| ALL critiques on it, and ideas for improvements are welcomed!!!
|
| Please excuse my rough drawing, I am NOT a draftsperson!
|
| Hopefully, the attachment of the .jpg was successful....
|
| Warmest regards,
| John
|
|

On Sun, 8 May 2005 08:07:01 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote:
I seem to get A LOT more responses which point out what does not work, and
not what WILL work... and, while that IS a help... not quite what one most
desires on his trek though life...

Hi Brett,

Well, it is difficult to compliment one for losing the race. In the
Navy we had a saying about "attaboys." It took 1000 of them to get a
"job well done" and one "aw****" to erase all the attaboys you had.

Now for the attaboy, it's nice to see that you have finally divorced
the extra diodes.

Another attaboy, it's nice to see that you divorced the common cathode
path.

So enough patronizing and back to reality.

What are the capacitors for? If R is too large, then they will shut
off the diodes (this is called a clamp circuit for very good reason).
If the R is too small, you won't see the flicker anyway.

What are the extra resistors/constant current devices for? The
constant current device bridged by a smaller resistor (I must presume
they are the standard 50 Ohmers) is self defeating.

And what is with the connection between the inner line, coil middle,
and common for?

I note you reserve the rights, to what? a self extinguishing Power
indicator?

Yeah, you guessed it: aw**** at least once if not three times (poor
form when they outnumber the attaboys).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard:

That idea was inspired by Cecil, his input has been VERY beneficial to me,
please don't condem him to stoning to death along side of me... grin

I cite his "Twin Lamp SWR Indicator" as the evil offering which cemented my
designs... (is there any chance you could stand him for the stoning and, let
me go? grin)

The caps are an attempt to limit "peak reverse spikes" (especially across
the fets drain-to-source) but, only if they (the spikes) are any more than a
figment of my imagination (besides, at this point we only wish DC and rf
dumped to ground is a "good thing")... at the most--they do little harm...

I threw the second fet in because I felt guilty about having too few
parts!!! innocent-look-with-fingers-tightly-crossed-behind-the-back

Like most projects of mine--this one is not viewed as completed... I still
have to "build" that one!

Warmest regards,
John
--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
| On Sun, 8 May 2005 08:07:01 -0700, "John Smith"
| wrote:
| I seem to get A LOT more responses which point out what does not work,
and
| not what WILL work... and, while that IS a help... not quite what one
most
| desires on his trek though life...
|
| Hi Brett,
|
| Well, it is difficult to compliment one for losing the race. In the
| Navy we had a saying about "attaboys." It took 1000 of them to get a
| "job well done" and one "aw****" to erase all the attaboys you had.
|
| Now for the attaboy, it's nice to see that you have finally divorced
| the extra diodes.
|
| Another attaboy, it's nice to see that you divorced the common cathode
| path.
|
| So enough patronizing and back to reality.
|
| What are the capacitors for? If R is too large, then they will shut
| off the diodes (this is called a clamp circuit for very good reason).
| If the R is too small, you won't see the flicker anyway.
|
| What are the extra resistors/constant current devices for? The
| constant current device bridged by a smaller resistor (I must presume
| they are the standard 50 Ohmers) is self defeating.
|
| And what is with the connection between the inner line, coil middle,
| and common for?
|
| I note you reserve the rights, to what? a self extinguishing Power
| indicator?
|
| Yeah, you guessed it: aw**** at least once if not three times (poor
| form when they outnumber the attaboys).
|
| 73's
| Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Sun, 8 May 2005 15:37:06 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote:

The caps are an attempt to limit "peak reverse spikes" (especially across
the fets drain-to-source) but, only if they (the spikes) are any more than a
figment of my imagination (besides, at this point we only wish DC and rf
dumped to ground is a "good thing")... at the most--they do little harm...

Hi Brett,

Little Harm? It has been quite evident that electronics is quite new
to you (contrary to whatever experience you may feel you have
accumulated). Putting a capacitor at the output of a rectifier
doubles the reverse voltage stress that the rectifier has to tolerate.
If you are worried about FETs (like cutting out cholesterol for the
sake of your appendix), then your lacking equal fear for the LEDs'
breakdown is a bit strange.

Anyway, I doubt you have actually worked through the analysis given
all the gauche designs that lead to this. It is presumed that the RF
will be "spike" free (the FCC frowns on such spurious content); or
that if you are simply speaking about HF in general, then it follows
that you could have simply dumped the RF to ground by shorting the
Caps in the first place (no need for the useless FETs either).

I threw the second fet in because I felt guilty about having too few
parts!!! innocent-look-with-fingers-tightly-crossed-behind-the-back

Uh-huh. As I said, Mad Man Muntz would have a field day.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hmmm, let me think--well, I have--I think I will take that as a complement!
grin

Warmest regards,
John
--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
| On Sun, 8 May 2005 15:37:06 -0700, "John Smith"
| wrote:
|
| The caps are an attempt to limit "peak reverse spikes" (especially across
| the fets drain-to-source) but, only if they (the spikes) are any more
than a
| figment of my imagination (besides, at this point we only wish DC and rf
| dumped to ground is a "good thing")... at the most--they do little
harm...
|
| Hi Brett,
|
| Little Harm? It has been quite evident that electronics is quite new
| to you (contrary to whatever experience you may feel you have
| accumulated). Putting a capacitor at the output of a rectifier
| doubles the reverse voltage stress that the rectifier has to tolerate.
| If you are worried about FETs (like cutting out cholesterol for the
| sake of your appendix), then your lacking equal fear for the LEDs'
| breakdown is a bit strange.
|
| Anyway, I doubt you have actually worked through the analysis given
| all the gauche designs that lead to this. It is presumed that the RF
| will be "spike" free (the FCC frowns on such spurious content); or
| that if you are simply speaking about HF in general, then it follows
| that you could have simply dumped the RF to ground by shorting the
| Caps in the first place (no need for the useless FETs either).
|
| I threw the second fet in because I felt guilty about having too few
| parts!!! innocent-look-with-fingers-tightly-crossed-behind-the-back
|
| Uh-huh. As I said, Mad Man Muntz would have a field day.
|
| 73's
| Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Here are some pics of the prototype I "junkboxed" together--sorry the
quality is so bad...
http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/
or:
http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/index.html
click on the thumbnails for larger pic(s).

The toroid has the winding grounded at center, there are 20 turns total--10
turns per side (way too many!!! I would suggest somewhere between 1-5 turns
for 10 watts or greater!!!)

And, for Richard, BOTH leds share a common current source through the FET...

Later, when I have time, will sketch the schematic and post it here...

PARTS LIST:
1) One aluminum panel to mount SO-239s'
2) Two SO-239's
3) Two hyper-brite LEDs (I would suggest LESS efficient leds--unless for
QRP--these were just handy)
4) One 1K resistor
5) One MPF-102 Fet
6) Hookup wire

If this isn't the most parts-efficient swr indicator in existance, one which
is suitable for QRP thru QRO--then I'll eat this post!!! (well, granted,
Cecils' "Two Lamp SWR Indicator" beats it--but then, this works on coax!!!)

Build one! It works!!!

Anyone know a QRP newsgroup where I can share this design with?

Warmest regards,
John


--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
| This is a SWR bridge I built using leds and a homemade "directional
| coupler."
|
| ALL critiques on it, and ideas for improvements are welcomed!!!
|
| Please excuse my rough drawing, I am NOT a draftsperson!
|
| Hopefully, the attachment of the .jpg was successful....
|
| Warmest regards,
| John
|
|

Here is the schematic...
http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/final.jpg
I am afraid this is may only good for QRP-one watt or less power...
Here is the link, this should be viewed as a starting design, far from
finished--I would be interested if some QRP'ers would play with it and let
me know of their experiences.

It was pointed out, that this was over-stressing components capabilites (Roy
even made comment)--the FET will just not take the demands put on it at 10
watts (I ran the ten watts through a resistive splitter and sent ~5 watts
too it--with a new FET, it lasted long enough for proof of concept tests...
then FET blew again)

I have fets of 200+ volts (mpf-102 is 25v)--just gotta find 'em... will
stick one of these in when I have time again...

I ended up with total turns of 30 on the toroid (center tapped.)

Warmest regards,
John
--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
| Here are some pics of the prototype I "junkboxed" together--sorry the
| quality is so bad...
| http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/
| or:
| http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/index.html
| click on the thumbnails for larger pic(s).
|
| The toroid has the winding grounded at center, there are 20 turns
total--10
| turns per side (way too many!!! I would suggest somewhere between 1-5
turns
| for 10 watts or greater!!!)
|
| And, for Richard, BOTH leds share a common current source through the
FET...
|
| Later, when I have time, will sketch the schematic and post it here...
|
| PARTS LIST:
| 1) One aluminum panel to mount SO-239s'
| 2) Two SO-239's
| 3) Two hyper-brite LEDs (I would suggest LESS efficient leds--unless for
| QRP--these were just handy)
| 4) One 1K resistor
| 5) One MPF-102 Fet
| 6) Hookup wire
|
| If this isn't the most parts-efficient swr indicator in existance, one
which
| is suitable for QRP thru QRO--then I'll eat this post!!! (well, granted,
| Cecils' "Two Lamp SWR Indicator" beats it--but then, this works on
coax!!!)
|
| Build one! It works!!!
|
| Anyone know a QRP newsgroup where I can share this design with?
|
| Warmest regards,
| John
|
|
| --
| When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!
|
| "John Smith" wrote in message
| ...
|| This is a SWR bridge I built using leds and a homemade "directional
|| coupler."
||
|| ALL critiques on it, and ideas for improvements are welcomed!!!
||
|| Please excuse my rough drawing, I am NOT a draftsperson!
||
|| Hopefully, the attachment of the .jpg was successful....
||
|| Warmest regards,
|| John
||
||
|
|

John Smith wrote:
It was pointed out, that this was over-stressing components capabilites (Roy
even made comment)--the FET will just not take the demands put on it at 10
watts (I ran the ten watts through a resistive splitter and sent ~5 watts
too it--with a new FET, it lasted long enough for proof of concept tests...
then FET blew again)

For a matched Z0=50 ohm system, five watts of forward power
is 15.8 volts. When calibrated, the voltage from the toroid
has to equal that voltage. That means, for the forward power
indication, 31.6 volts must be tolerated for five watts.

For reflected power, the current will be driven by the difference
of the two voltages. When matched at five watts, that difference
will be 15.8v - 15.8v and the LED will be dark. This might be a
hint to eliminate the forward power indication altogether and
go with only a reflected power indication. After all, the reflected
power indication is the most useful and when zero, the system is
matched.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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On Mon, 9 May 2005 13:15:57 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote:

And, for Richard, BOTH leds share a common current source through the FET...

Hi Brett,

And seeing you are tied directly to the feedline, that hosepipe is
going to supply every bit of what that FET can limit.

Hard to imagine they will EVER turn off. This is just a brighter
brake light flasher.

What's the coil for, anyway?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Cecil:

Well, these "hyperbrite" leds I am using mask the effect a lot--but since
the FWD and REW run though the same current limiter, if the REV current goes
up though its' led--it starves the FWD from some of its' current--so as you
see one led get brighter--you see the other grow dimmer (kewl to show to cb
buddies grin)

But, seriously, even more desirable, is you don't need to pay any attention
to the direction in which you insert it into the line....

I don't have a RF vtvm Cecil, and too lazy to build a probe... but, under
test conditions something made the FET fail--I suspect too great of
voltage--I have used that fet/led arrangement for "test lamps" on 5~32v with
never a failure (although my datasheet on the mpf-102 says 25v max), I
suspect the voltage went somewhere beyond 32v when it fail (failed in
shorted condition too, both LEDS were "BRIGHT!!!!")...

But, thank you for your time in commenting--I will NOT ignore your input and
keep it in mind--but still, as Roy pointed out--doesn't pay to push
component capabilities to their max and beyond...
in real use at least...

Warmest regards,
John
--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
| John Smith wrote:
| It was pointed out, that this was over-stressing components capabilites
(Roy
| even made comment)--the FET will just not take the demands put on it at
10
| watts (I ran the ten watts through a resistive splitter and sent ~5
watts
| too it--with a new FET, it lasted long enough for proof of concept
tests...
| then FET blew again)
|
| For a matched Z0=50 ohm system, five watts of forward power
| is 15.8 volts. When calibrated, the voltage from the toroid
| has to equal that voltage. That means, for the forward power
| indication, 31.6 volts must be tolerated for five watts.
|
| For reflected power, the current will be driven by the difference
| of the two voltages. When matched at five watts, that difference
| will be 15.8v - 15.8v and the LED will be dark. This might be a
| hint to eliminate the forward power indication altogether and
| go with only a reflected power indication. After all, the reflected
| power indication is the most useful and when zero, the system is
| matched.
| --
| 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
|
|
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Richard:

One important use of the "coil" is a "choke", I'd hate to try to get a
signal though a direct short of the center conductor to the shield...

Warmest regards,
John
--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 9 May 2005 13:15:57 -0700, "John Smith"
| wrote:
|
| And, for Richard, BOTH leds share a common current source through the
FET...
|
| Hi Brett,
|
| And seeing you are tied directly to the feedline, that hosepipe is
| going to supply every bit of what that FET can limit.
|
| Hard to imagine they will EVER turn off. This is just a brighter
| brake light flasher.
|
| What's the coil for, anyway?
|
| 73's
| Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:07:17 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote:

One important use of the "coil" is a "choke", I'd hate to try to get a
signal though a direct short of the center conductor to the shield...

Hi Brett,

So you have a choke.

You have LEDs.

You have a current limiter (that seems to fail).

OK, so why the direct connection then?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:06:09 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote:

if the REV current goes
up though its' led--it starves the FWD from some of its' current--so as you
see one led get brighter--you see the other grow dimmer (kewl to show to cb
buddies grin)

But, seriously, even more desirable, is you don't need to pay any attention
to the direction in which you insert it into the line....

Ummmm, How do you know which is FWD? Yeah, I know, for CBers, they
can look at the gear shift.

Your description:
but, under test conditions something made the FET fail
is the longstanding suggestion to tune for maximum smoke.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard:

You are quick with the come back today--musta had yer wheaties! grin

Through a "magic" arrangement of components--I'd like to span QRP to QRO
power... mainly... while operation remains "automatic"...

Warmest regards,
John
--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
| On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:07:17 -0700, "John Smith"
| wrote:
|
| One important use of the "coil" is a "choke", I'd hate to try to get a
| signal though a direct short of the center conductor to the shield...
|
| Hi Brett,
|
| So you have a choke.
|
| You have LEDs.
|
| You have a current limiter (that seems to fail).
|
| OK, so why the direct connection then?
|
| 73's
| Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:24:08 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote:

Through a "magic" arrangement of components--I'd like to span QRP to QRO
power... mainly... while operation remains "automatic"...

Hi Brett,

Automagic, more likely.

What you would like to do does not answer the why. But I will skip
that because of the more interesting ramification (kind of the
original question):
"If the FET is to limit current such that it protects the LED(s);
AND the FET fails BUT the LED(s) keep shinin' on;
What is the FET for?"

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard:

Without the FET, the leds would not last long, when I said "bright"--that
was an understatement...

Richard, I have to get some work done here, your exchange is fun and
interesting today--but work demands I take time to get it done (I am turning
off notification of messages--I am weak and tempted easily)--I do enjoy your
comments which are though provoking... be back later and we will continue...
grin

Warmest regards,
John
--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
| On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:24:08 -0700, "John Smith"
| wrote:
|
| Through a "magic" arrangement of components--I'd like to span QRP to QRO
| power... mainly... while operation remains "automatic"...
|
| Hi Brett,
|
| Automagic, more likely.
|
| What you would like to do does not answer the why. But I will skip
| that because of the more interesting ramification (kind of the
| original question):
| "If the FET is to limit current such that it protects the LED(s);
| AND the FET fails BUT the LED(s) keep shinin' on;
| What is the FET for?"
|
| 73's
| Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:43:01 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote:

Without the FET, the leds would not last long, when I said "bright"--that
was an understatement...

Hi Brett,

If by bright you mean those dim Orange LEDs you first specified, I am
inclined to believe that you have not seen "bright" at all (all
advertising claims aside). The eye is a very, very poor measurement
instrument of absolutes. All of this goes hand-in-hand with the total
lack of quantitative information of:
1. How much forward power;
2. How much reverse power;
3. How bright forward LED;
4. How bright reverse LED;
5. How much current through either LED;
6. How much voltage across anything;
7. ALL (or any) of the above for any given load.

It is one thing to "want" to build a relative indicator - but relative
to what? A Zen tune-up?

One LED gets brighter and the other dimmer? By how much? and just
what is this an indication of? I posed the acid test of describing
this in end-user documentation and I note its glaring absence.

It stands to reason that the circuit topologies that you offer the
most are biased to shut down the weaker LED (and the reverse power, by
nature of cable loss) which is guaranteed to be the weaker power.

Hence, it follows that the forward power is extinguishing the reverse
indicator. It may make an interesting display, but it is decoupled
from any purpose of revealing a mismatch.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard:

Well, yeah. When I started out, I was thinking the REV LED would extinguish
at match... and while that might happen at very low power levels--I've
abandoned that idea (at least with hyperbrite leds)...

The second error I made was assuming my problem would be getting the LEDS to
glow bright enough, I mean my "other" swr meter uses a 100 ua meter--this
thinking was in slight ERROR! (just a question of how much power I want to
burn--but can always use a switch to cut out "meter" in reg operation.

And, following along that line hyperbrite LEDS were a BAD idea... those
things glow bright enough a 5 ma to read a newspaper by!!! (well, that could
be exaggerating)

Most of these designs work, some better than others--and now I accept the
fact that even a 1:1 match will just be shown as a much reduced light output
on the REV LED--I accept this and just "zen tune" for min light (still
thinking about your reccomendation for max. SMOKE!!! grin)

I am pausing here, it works, I dropped in a BUZ100 as current limiter--20+
amps max 200+v, ultra-low "R" at turn on--hard to drive at this power level
in a linear fashion--but doable, and it was in my junkbox--trying to find a
way to use this fact to my advantage--just let it try to burn that turkey
out!!! It works--but improvements are in my mind.... time for me to think
about all this and what I have learned up to this point--I have a re-newed
appreciation for swr...

I have an old tube layfayette comstat 25A boatanchor I have been going to
put on 10 meters, think I will focus on that now--will give me a 5 watt rf
source and I will drop in a switch to drop B+ so can get a ~QRP level out
the back... I will be building a vfo for it...

I need a tube set (very forgiving of high swr and direct shorts), all my
other equip is solid state and I grow careless with "the movement of the
planet Earth"

(or time grin)...

Warmest regards,
John
--
When Viagra fails to work--you are DOOMED!!!

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
| On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:43:01 -0700, "John Smith"
| wrote:
|
| Without the FET, the leds would not last long, when I said "bright"--that
| was an understatement...
|
| Hi Brett,
|
| If by bright you mean those dim Orange LEDs you first specified, I am
| inclined to believe that you have not seen "bright" at all (all
| advertising claims aside). The eye is a very, very poor measurement
| instrument of absolutes. All of this goes hand-in-hand with the total
| lack of quantitative information of:
| 1. How much forward power;
| 2. How much reverse power;
| 3. How bright forward LED;
| 4. How bright reverse LED;
| 5. How much current through either LED;
| 6. How much voltage across anything;
| 7. ALL (or any) of the above for any given load.
|
| It is one thing to "want" to build a relative indicator - but relative
| to what? A Zen tune-up?
|
| One LED gets brighter and the other dimmer? By how much? and just
| what is this an indication of? I posed the acid test of describing
| this in end-user documentation and I note its glaring absence.
|
| It stands to reason that the circuit topologies that you offer the
| most are biased to shut down the weaker LED (and the reverse power, by
| nature of cable loss) which is guaranteed to be the weaker power.
|
| Hence, it follows that the forward power is extinguishing the reverse
| indicator. It may make an interesting display, but it is decoupled
| from any purpose of revealing a mismatch.
|
| 73's
| Richard Clark, KB7QHC