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[SNAPPPPPPP!]
Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote: "Don't worry be happy" -- song by Bobby McFerrin Actually more like: "Existence Exists." by Aristotle What if the universe is simply a complex process that man doesn't yet understand and there is/was no purpose at all? What if? You mean it's *not*??? - Mike KB3EIA - |
Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote: And, I believe it is true, "nature" only demonstrates destructive forces ... Nope, sorry to slay your sacred cow. You "knowledge" on this subject is woefully out of date. *Order out of chaos* is a *scientifically proven fact* which can be demonstrated to you in any number of ways. Got lipids? You got cells. "Chaos: Making a New Science", by James Gleick is enjoyable reading. DNA certainly could have emerged from a soup of organic ingredients following only the mathematical model of chaos theory. Next, what gets trapped in those lipid cells.... If you have the ingredients, It is hard *not* to form something that eventually creates life. However, it seems to me more likely that our planet was seeded with life from somewhere else since the rest of the universe had approximately a 9 billion year head start on our planet. Possibly, but that's the easy way out. Some scientists believe that the seeds of life exist in virtually every comet. Consider that an exploding planet, containing life, could have formed the asteroid belt and blanketed the rest of our solar system with the seeds of life. I believe that new life happens all the time. In seawater there is a plethora of microscopic life forms that give intriguing hints at this. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Like I say, when I see one, I'll believe it... I am not going to take that
by "leap of faith!" Plus, turn on the major biologists to this fact--they have been contemplating ways to bring back the Dodo Bird for decades! This sounds like it just might be an aid to them! Warmest regards, John -- Marbles can be used in models with excellent results! However, if forced to keep using all of mine up... I may end up at a disadvantage... I seem to have misplaced some already!!! "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... | Cecil Moore wrote: | John Smith wrote: | | And, I believe it is true, "nature" only demonstrates destructive | forces ... | | | Nope, sorry to slay your sacred cow. You "knowledge" on | this subject is woefully out of date. *Order out of chaos* | is a *scientifically proven fact* which can be demonstrated | to you in any number of ways. | | Got lipids? You got cells. | | | "Chaos: Making a New Science", | by James Gleick is enjoyable reading. DNA certainly could | have emerged from a soup of organic ingredients following | only the mathematical model of chaos theory. | | Next, what gets trapped in those lipid cells.... If you have the | ingredients, It is hard *not* to form something that eventually creates | life. | | However, it | seems to me more likely that our planet was seeded with | life from somewhere else since the rest of the universe | had approximately a 9 billion year head start on our planet. | | Possibly, but that's the easy way out. | | | Some scientists believe that the seeds of life exist in | virtually every comet. Consider that an exploding planet, | containing life, could have formed the asteroid belt and | blanketed the rest of our solar system with the seeds of life. | | I believe that new life happens all the time. In seawater there is a | plethora of microscopic life forms that give intriguing hints at this. | | - Mike KB3EIA - |
John Smith wrote:
Well, your questions are interesting, I am sure you mean to point something else out, but I hear: "What is this "God's" logic in creating conjoined twins? - an insane morbid sense of humor?"... --AS-- ..."What is this "God" about, has he no sense of decency?--has he no respect for the designs of men, their logic, purposes, expectations and goals?" Lessee, he creates us so that unless we worship him, he tortures us for eternity. To know the mind of "God" may not please us... it is quite possible "God" is insane--if so, it may be a longtime before a sane replacement is found... Indeed, almost all points of view I hear today would design "God" in our image, Man *always* creates god in his own image. using our logic, and not the way it has really (and already) been done--and is one of the reasons I have more questions than answers That is a good sign! --one being, "Are we even sane enough to be able to handle these tasks and seek these answers?" Most even refuse to believe a power greater than us is our master, and so, travel about seeking the "one" to control and punish and bend to their wills--perhaps, a grave mistake... would it be easier to accept if the "Mud Puddle God" of "Evolution" is responsible for this design--is the human condition so much more easy to accept if this is the case? Would it be "OK" then? Calling Evolution a religion is simply incorrect. I "believe" in evolution, by virtue of the preponderance of evidence, and the connection with so many other "facts" of the physical world as we know it now. But I do not pray to evolution, I do not go to an evolution church or go through some ceremony to prove to the world that I am an evolutionist - whatever an evolutionist is.... Check out the connections. If evolution is "wrong" or does not exist, then indeed, most physics "facts" are not facts at all, they are dead wrong. Not only is evolution wrong, but radioactive decay is wrong, etc, etc, etc. As to "us", well, we are POSITIVE proof it has been done--but no proof of "who" has done it, how it has been done, or even why it has been done... but, we should keep searching... an answer may be found... Why? Because it can be done. However, often I wonder if all of this isn't really just in my mind--you are all not real, and I just imagine these conversations to amuse myself... To search to find out if "God" is real or not, without even first having decided about all of you is a bit insane in itself... I have had dreams and carried on elaborate conversations with the likes of you (or one such as you)--and then woke up!!!! In at least one dream I have "pinched myself", not wokeup and accepted this as proof positive I was not dreaming!!! A great error! Let's face it, it takes a leap of faith for me even to believe in you... I am pinching myself now, as we chat... Kinky! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
If you believe in it because of "virtue of the preponderance of evidence" it
shows you easily confuse "leap of faith" with "positive proof." Warmest regards, John -- Marbles can be used in models with excellent results! However, if forced to keep using all of mine up... I may end up at a disadvantage... I seem to have misplaced some already!!! "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... | John Smith wrote: | Well, your questions are interesting, I am sure you mean to point something | else out, but I hear: "What is this "God's" logic in creating conjoined | twins? - an insane morbid sense of humor?"... | | --AS-- | | ..."What is this "God" about, has he no sense of decency?--has he no respect | for the designs of men, their logic, purposes, expectations and goals?" | | Lessee, he creates us so that unless we worship him, he tortures us for | eternity. | | To know the mind of "God" may not please us... it is quite possible "God" | is insane--if so, it may be a longtime before a sane replacement is found... | | Indeed, almost all points of view I hear today would design "God" in our | image, | | Man *always* creates god in his own image. | | | using our logic, and not the way it has really (and already) been | done--and is one of the reasons I have more questions than answers | | That is a good sign! | | | --one | being, "Are we even sane enough to be able to handle these tasks and seek | these answers?" | | | | Most even refuse to believe a power greater than us is our master, and so, | travel about seeking the "one" to control and punish and bend to their | wills--perhaps, a grave mistake... would it be easier to accept if the "Mud | Puddle God" of "Evolution" is responsible for this design--is the human | condition so much more easy to accept if this is the case? Would it be "OK" | then? | | Calling Evolution a religion is simply incorrect. I "believe" in | evolution, by virtue of the preponderance of evidence, and the | connection with so many other "facts" of the physical world as we know | it now. But I do not pray to evolution, I do not go to an evolution | church or go through some ceremony to prove to the world that I am an | evolutionist - whatever an evolutionist is.... | | Check out the connections. If evolution is "wrong" or does not exist, | then indeed, most physics "facts" are not facts at all, they are dead | wrong. Not only is evolution wrong, but radioactive decay is wrong, etc, | etc, etc. | | As to "us", well, we are POSITIVE proof it has been done--but no proof of | "who" has done it, how it has been done, or even why it has been done... | but, we should keep searching... an answer may be found... | | Why? Because it can be done. | | However, often I wonder if all of this isn't really just in my mind--you are | all not real, and I just imagine these conversations to amuse myself... To | search to find out if "God" is real or not, without even first having | decided about all of you is a bit insane in itself... I have had dreams and | carried on elaborate conversations with the likes of you (or one such as | you)--and then woke up!!!! In at least one dream I have "pinched myself", | not wokeup and accepted this as proof positive I was not dreaming!!! A | great error! | | Let's face it, it takes a leap of faith for me even to believe in you... I | am pinching myself now, as we chat... | | Kinky! 8^) | | - Mike KB3EIA - |
You know, "time" may just prove you correct...
At some distant time in the future, when some horse lover goes out to the barn to saddle up and take a ride--and is suddenly shocked his/her horse has "evolved" and now deserves a new scientific classification all its own... we will know... But, more likely what will have happened, is in a lab somewhere a "thinking mind" has constructed the new animal... a quick look at the calendar, at that time, will show it is indeed April First!!! Warmest regards, John -- Marbles can be used in models with excellent results! However, if forced to keep using all of mine up... I may end up at a disadvantage... I seem to have misplaced some already!!! "John Smith" wrote in message ... | If you believe in it because of "virtue of the preponderance of evidence" it | shows you easily confuse "leap of faith" with "positive proof." | | Warmest regards, | John | -- | Marbles can be used in models with excellent results! However, if forced | to keep using all of mine up... I may end up at a disadvantage... I seem | to have misplaced some already!!! | | | "Mike Coslo" wrote in message | ... || John Smith wrote: || Well, your questions are interesting, I am sure you mean to point | something || else out, but I hear: "What is this "God's" logic in creating conjoined || twins? - an insane morbid sense of humor?"... || || --AS-- || || ..."What is this "God" about, has he no sense of decency?--has he no | respect || for the designs of men, their logic, purposes, expectations and goals?" || || Lessee, he creates us so that unless we worship him, he tortures us for || eternity. || || To know the mind of "God" may not please us... it is quite possible | "God" || is insane--if so, it may be a longtime before a sane replacement is | found... || || Indeed, almost all points of view I hear today would design "God" in our || image, || || Man *always* creates god in his own image. || || || using our logic, and not the way it has really (and already) been || done--and is one of the reasons I have more questions than answers || || That is a good sign! || || || --one || being, "Are we even sane enough to be able to handle these tasks and | seek || these answers?" || || || || Most even refuse to believe a power greater than us is our master, and | so, || travel about seeking the "one" to control and punish and bend to their || wills--perhaps, a grave mistake... would it be easier to accept if the | "Mud || Puddle God" of "Evolution" is responsible for this design--is the human || condition so much more easy to accept if this is the case? Would it be | "OK" || then? || || Calling Evolution a religion is simply incorrect. I "believe" in || evolution, by virtue of the preponderance of evidence, and the || connection with so many other "facts" of the physical world as we know || it now. But I do not pray to evolution, I do not go to an evolution || church or go through some ceremony to prove to the world that I am an || evolutionist - whatever an evolutionist is.... || || Check out the connections. If evolution is "wrong" or does not exist, || then indeed, most physics "facts" are not facts at all, they are dead || wrong. Not only is evolution wrong, but radioactive decay is wrong, etc, || etc, etc. || || As to "us", well, we are POSITIVE proof it has been done--but no proof | of || "who" has done it, how it has been done, or even why it has been done... || but, we should keep searching... an answer may be found... || || Why? Because it can be done. || || However, often I wonder if all of this isn't really just in my mind--you | are || all not real, and I just imagine these conversations to amuse myself... | To || search to find out if "God" is real or not, without even first having || decided about all of you is a bit insane in itself... I have had dreams | and || carried on elaborate conversations with the likes of you (or one such as || you)--and then woke up!!!! In at least one dream I have "pinched | myself", || not wokeup and accepted this as proof positive I was not dreaming!!! A || great error! || || Let's face it, it takes a leap of faith for me even to believe in you... | I || am pinching myself now, as we chat... || || Kinky! 8^) || || - Mike KB3EIA - | | |
John Smith wrote:
Like I say, when I see one, I'll believe it... I am not going to take that by "leap of faith!" Plus, turn on the major biologists to this fact--they have been contemplating ways to bring back the Dodo Bird for decades! This sounds like it just might be an aid to them! It won't bring back anything. It only creates new. - Mike KB3EIA - |
The mud puddle it came from must be famous!!!
Warmest regards, John -- Marbles can be used in models with excellent results! However, if forced to keep using all of mine up... I may end up at a disadvantage... I seem to have misplaced some already!!! "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... | John Smith wrote: | Like I say, when I see one, I'll believe it... I am not going to take that | by "leap of faith!" | | Plus, turn on the major biologists to this fact--they have been | contemplating ways to bring back the Dodo Bird for decades! This sounds | like it just might be an aid to them! | | It won't bring back anything. It only creates new. | | | - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike Coslo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote: What if the universe is simply a complex process that man doesn't yet understand and there is/was no purpose at all? What if? You mean it's *not*??? Just breaking it to him gently. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Mike Coslo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote: What if the universe is simply a complex process that man doesn't yet understand and there is/was no purpose at all? What if? You mean it's *not*??? Just breaking it to him gently with a rhetorical question. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
John Smith wrote:
But, more likely what will have happened, is in a lab somewhere a "thinking mind" has constructed the new animal... a quick look at the calendar, at that time, will show it is indeed April First!!! Scientists are debating now whether to create a lab rat with a human brain. Pigs already have human blood flowing through their veins. We have eaten from the proverbial tree of life. Who needs God? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Well, that one point made in the bible--some seem to miss it, the one to the
effect--"created in the image of God"... personally, I never doubted it--I think he had something in mind right from the beginning... but hey, I am hung up on thinking minds... Warmest regards, John -- If "God"--expecting an angel... if evolution--expecting an alien... just wondering if I will be able to tell the difference! "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... | John Smith wrote: | But, more likely what will have happened, is in a lab somewhere a "thinking | mind" has constructed the new animal... a quick look at the calendar, at | that time, will show it is indeed April First!!! | | Scientists are debating now whether to create a lab rat | with a human brain. Pigs already have human blood flowing | through their veins. We have eaten from the proverbial | tree of life. Who needs God? | -- | 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp | | ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- | http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups | ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Mike Coslo" bravely wrote to "All" (14 May 05 22:51:19)
--- on the heady topic of " [SNAPPPPPPP!]" MC From: Mike Coslo MC Xref: aeinews rec.radio.amateur.antenna:30344 alt.fan.furry:3484 MC Calling Evolution a religion is simply incorrect. I "believe" in MC evolution, by virtue of the preponderance of evidence, and the MC connection with so many other "facts" of the physical world as we know MC it now. But I do not pray to evolution, I do not go to an evolution MC church or go through some ceremony to prove to the world that I am an MC evolutionist - whatever an evolutionist is.... MC Check out the connections. If evolution is "wrong" or does not exist, MC then indeed, most physics "facts" are not facts at all, they are dead MC wrong. Not only is evolution wrong, but radioactive decay is wrong, MC etc, etc, etc. In 1992 on the occasion of Galileo's exculpation by the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Paul II stated: "Faith should never conflict with reason." Clearly that statement struck a new tone in how the Church deals with science. The Church now accepts the scientific method and a fact is a fact even in the face of contradiction with scripture. As far as I'm concerned the Church made right and it is as it should be. The Anti-Evolutionists in the Bible-Belt are out of step and there were no dinosaurs in Noah's Ark! A*s*i*m*o*v .... Powdered water -- just add ... hmmm ... |
John Smith wrote:
Well, that one point made in the bible--some seem to miss it, the one to the effect--"created in the image of God"... personally, I never doubted it--I think he had something in mind right from the beginning... but hey, I am hung up on thinking minds... Of course. Man creates god in his own image. |
Asimov wrote:
"Mike Coslo" bravely wrote to "All" (14 May 05 22:51:19) --- on the heady topic of " [SNAPPPPPPP!]" MC From: Mike Coslo MC Xref: aeinews rec.radio.amateur.antenna:30344 alt.fan.furry:3484 MC Calling Evolution a religion is simply incorrect. I "believe" in MC evolution, by virtue of the preponderance of evidence, and the MC connection with so many other "facts" of the physical world as we know MC it now. But I do not pray to evolution, I do not go to an evolution MC church or go through some ceremony to prove to the world that I am an MC evolutionist - whatever an evolutionist is.... MC Check out the connections. If evolution is "wrong" or does not exist, MC then indeed, most physics "facts" are not facts at all, they are dead MC wrong. Not only is evolution wrong, but radioactive decay is wrong, MC etc, etc, etc. In 1992 on the occasion of Galileo's exculpation by the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Paul II stated: "Faith should never conflict with reason." Or facts! 8^) Surely a wise man. Clearly that statement struck a new tone in how the Church deals with science. The Church now accepts the scientific method and a fact is a fact even in the face of contradiction with scripture. Surely. Actually most churches do. Just a "select group that seem to have trouble with it. As far as I'm concerned the Church made right and it is as it should be. The Anti-Evolutionists in the Bible-Belt are out of step and there were no dinosaurs in Noah's Ark! Where did the water come from, and where did it go? - Mike - |
Mike Coslo wrote:
Of course. Man creates god in his own image. I once asked my Mom if God had eyes. She said, of course God has eyes - how else would he see what you did? I said, does God have ears? She said, of course He has ears. How else would he hear your prayers. I asked, "Does God have a wee-wee?" The response was, "Wash your mouth out with soap and bring me that switch!" -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
.... more important, does "God" have a mind?
Warmest regards, John "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Mike Coslo wrote: Of course. Man creates god in his own image. I once asked my Mom if God had eyes. She said, of course God has eyes - how else would he see what you did? I said, does God have ears? She said, of course He has ears. How else would he hear your prayers. I asked, "Does God have a wee-wee?" The response was, "Wash your mouth out with soap and bring me that switch!" -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Mike Coslo wrote: Of course. Man creates god in his own image. I once asked my Mom if God had eyes. She said, of course God has eyes - how else would he see what you did? I said, does God have ears? She said, of course He has ears. How else would he hear your prayers. I asked, "Does God have a wee-wee?" The response was, "Wash your mouth out with soap and bring me that switch!" -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp After your purge & scourge, did she give you an answer? -- Ed WB6WSN El Cajon, CA USA |
MIke Causal wrote:
SNIP Where did the water come from, and where did it go? - Mike - Some say: "From the Mediterranean; to the Black Sea." |
Ed Price wrote:
After your purge & scourge, did she give you an answer? No, but my uncle did. He said, of course God has a wee-wee. How else would he dump all that rain on us? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Mike Coslo wrote:
Where did the water come from, and where did it go? My Mom said: God created the water and then destroyed it. You see, nothing is impossible for an omnipotent God. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
It is hydrogen and oxygen molecules... I would think "God" expects ya to
know that... a kid in high school knows this--I expect if the "BIG Man" is up there, he expects something more from you--but just guessing... Warmest regards, John (the baptist--the "difficult believer"--but always searching your words for better).... "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Mike Coslo wrote: Where did the water come from, and where did it go? My Mom said: God created the water and then destroyed it. You see, nothing is impossible for an omnipotent God. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Cecil:
Shame on you, bet your aunt said that too!!! Not only for your being on subject--but for you accute perception!!! Warmest regards, John "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Ed Price wrote: After your purge & scourge, did she give you an answer? No, but my uncle did. He said, of course God has a wee-wee. How else would he dump all that rain on us? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Ham op wrote:
MIke Causal wrote: Heh! My spell checker always want to do that to me too! SNIP Where did the water come from, and where did it go? - Mike - Some say: "From the Mediterranean; to the Black Sea." Yep, there is the possibility of an ancient flood that may have made a mess out of the Mediterranean. I believe this may have been possible. The one I wonder about is the Fundie account where the water had to cover the entire earth. This means that it had to cover the top of Mt Everest. That is one honkin' load of water! - Mike - |
Mike Coslo wrote:
SNIPPED Some say: "From the Mediterranean; to the Black Sea." Yep, there is the possibility of an ancient flood that may have made a mess out of the Mediterranean. I believe this may have been possible. The one I wonder about is the Fundie account where the water had to cover the entire earth. This means that it had to cover the top of Mt Everest. That is one honkin' load of water! - Mike - I agree with your statement, but disagree with your hypothesis. Mike, you have to remember history. When Genesis and Gilgamesh were written the world was flat, the Americas did not exist, the East [Orient] did not exist, Mt. Everest and Russia did not exist, most likely western Europe did not exist [in the experience of the authors]. The people of the UR valley [possibly today's IRAQ] did not know that Israel, Lebanon, Greece, etc existed. Their world was very, very localized. Their written language had not yet developed. So, a major flood, similar to the Mississippi basin flood of a few years ago, a 500 year flood [0.2% probable], would be a flood of their whole world !!! It is generally conceded that a flood occurred in the Near East in the period of pre-history. This flood was carried in ORAL traditions in several cultures. It appears in the subsequent writings of several cultures. So, the science community should focus on a fairly significant flood, 0.2% probable, in the near east possibly 4000 to 6000 years BCE. Now, I ask, what has this to do with ham radio antennas?? Seems like we drifted off subject! |
John Smith wrote:
If you believe in it because of "virtue of the preponderance of evidence" it shows you easily confuse "leap of faith" with "positive proof." But you see, that is exactly why I do not believe in Evolution as a "religion! I have no "faith" in it. I use the evidence at hand to come to a reasonable conclusion that it is a viable system. No faith required. That some people seem to think that belief in Evolution is a religion is simply evidence of confusion on their part! - Mike - |
John Smith wrote:
It is hydrogen and oxygen molecules... I would think "God" expects ya to know that... a kid in high school knows this--I expect if the "BIG Man" is up there, he expects something more from you--but just guessing... Do some math on the amount of water required to cover the world to at least the top of Mt. Everest. Then disassociate the individual atoms from the water. Calculate the increase in the amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere and the increase that would happen if the water was broken down as you suggest. Now keep in mind that the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere needs to be in a fairly narrow range to support our form of life - too low and we suffocate, and too high, and nasty things happen due to its oxidation effect. - Mike - Warmest regards, John (the baptist--the "difficult believer"--but always searching your words for better).... "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Mike Coslo wrote: Where did the water come from, and where did it go? My Mom said: God created the water and then destroyed it. You see, nothing is impossible for an omnipotent God. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Mike:
Rock on dude! Warmest regards, John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: If you believe in it because of "virtue of the preponderance of evidence" it shows you easily confuse "leap of faith" with "positive proof." But you see, that is exactly why I do not believe in Evolution as a "religion! I have no "faith" in it. I use the evidence at hand to come to a reasonable conclusion that it is a viable system. No faith required. That some people seem to think that belief in Evolution is a religion is simply evidence of confusion on their part! - Mike - |
Mike:
Rock on dude! Warmest regards, John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: It is hydrogen and oxygen molecules... I would think "God" expects ya to know that... a kid in high school knows this--I expect if the "BIG Man" is up there, he expects something more from you--but just guessing... Do some math on the amount of water required to cover the world to at least the top of Mt. Everest. Then disassociate the individual atoms from the water. Calculate the increase in the amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere and the increase that would happen if the water was broken down as you suggest. Now keep in mind that the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere needs to be in a fairly narrow range to support our form of life - too low and we suffocate, and too high, and nasty things happen due to its oxidation effect. - Mike - Warmest regards, John (the baptist--the "difficult believer"--but always searching your words for better).... "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Mike Coslo wrote: Where did the water come from, and where did it go? My Mom said: God created the water and then destroyed it. You see, nothing is impossible for an omnipotent God. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
John Smith wrote:
It is hydrogen and oxygen molecules... I would think "God" expects ya to know that... a kid in high school knows this--I expect if the "BIG Man" is up there, he expects something more from you--but just guessing... Given the amount of acid rain lately, my uncle may have been right. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Ham op wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: SNIPPED Some say: "From the Mediterranean; to the Black Sea." Yep, there is the possibility of an ancient flood that may have made a mess out of the Mediterranean. I believe this may have been possible. The one I wonder about is the Fundie account where the water had to cover the entire earth. This means that it had to cover the top of Mt Everest. That is one honkin' load of water! - Mike - I agree with your statement, but disagree with your hypothesis. Mike, you have to remember history. When Genesis and Gilgamesh were written the world was flat, the Americas did not exist, the East [Orient] did not exist, Mt. Everest and Russia did not exist, most likely western Europe did not exist [in the experience of the authors]. The people of the UR valley [possibly today's IRAQ] did not know that Israel, Lebanon, Greece, etc existed. Their world was very, very localized. Their written language had not yet developed. So, a major flood, similar to the Mississippi basin flood of a few years ago, a 500 year flood [0.2% probable], would be a flood of their whole world !!! It is generally conceded that a flood occurred in the Near East in the period of pre-history. This flood was carried in ORAL traditions in several cultures. It appears in the subsequent writings of several cultures. So, the science community should focus on a fairly significant flood, 0.2% probable, in the near east possibly 4000 to 6000 years BCE. Actually we do agree pretty well. My point was that the fundies who insist on literal word for work unquestioning acceptance of King James fall into silly traps on things like the flood. Your local major flood *is* probably what gave rise to the Noah's ark story. More's the pity. It is a good story, and had stood for a long time as just that. Now we have some unusual types telling us it had to happen verbatim... Now, I ask, what has this to do with ham radio antennas?? Seems like we drifted off subject! Indeed! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike Coslo wrote: Ham op wrote: snip Where did the water come from, and where did it go? - Mike - Some say: "From the Mediterranean; to the Black Sea." Yep, there is the possibility of an ancient flood that may have made a mess out of the Mediterranean. I believe this may have been possible. Mike: The last flood to have made a mess of the Med. Sea happened more than 5 million years ago. Just prior to water rushing through what is now the Strait of Gibraltar, the Med. was a set of unconnected salt lakes, surrounded by salt pans. Ham: Yes, some do say that water suddenly poured into the Black Sea from the Med., but their numbers are shrinking. Allow me to burden you with my standard rant on this topic. Please, and thank you. engage rant mode Sadly, you, and maybe millions of other people, have been misled on this subject. Alas, there was no "Noachian" Black Sea Flood, and the science in William Ryan's and Walter Pitman's book "Noah's Flood: the event that changed history" has in several cases been superceded by better information that indicates that there was no such event, and was in most cases preceded by evidence that indicated that there was no such event. Ryan and Pitman set out to overturn the orthodox view of the history of the Black Sea, but they have apparently abandoned their hypothesis, if more recent articles co-authored by Ryan are any indication. The orthodox view has prevailed, subject to some recent modifications. There is evidence that there was an _outflow_ southward from the Black Sea through the Bosphorus into the Mediterranean from more than 10000 years ago (well before R & P's initial 5600 BCE flood date), continuously until the present day, though there may have been a relatively short interruption. And evidence from the south shore of the Black sea shows that the level of the Black Sea was only 18 m below the present level at the time of the supposed flood. The more recent claim by Ryan puts the flood date at 8400 BP, or about 9000 years ago, but then the "floodwaters" through the Bosphorus channel would have been only about 5 metres deep. 9000 years ago is when everybody else always thought that Mediterranean sal****er first entered the Black Sea. At about that time, the last phase of Glacial Lake Agassiz, in central Canada, finally found an outlet to the sea through or under the remnants of the Laurentide Ice Sheet, and so out into the North Atlantic, raising sea level an appreciable amount, and _perhaps_ triggering a sudden inflow of sal****er into the Black Sea basin. But probably not sudden or great enough to inspire a Noachian Flood myth. Better candidates are widespread inundation of low-lying parts of the Persian Gulf associated with the final draining of Glacial Lake Agassiz, and similar flooding of the Tigris- Euphrates delta, and (most likely) simultaneous flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates, which would have looked like a flooding of the entire world from the viewpoint of a person near present-day Baghdad. These candidates could each or all have inspired the flood myth in the epic of Gilgamesh, which predates the first known appearance of the Noachian Flood myth. Check this out, for a layman-friendly synopsis of the refutation: http://home.entouch.net/dmd/bs=ADeaflod.htm On the draining of Glacial Lake Agassiz: http://cgrg.geog.uvic.ca/abstr=ADact...nceDuring.html Full article: http://www.highbeam.com/librar=ADy/d...4735&=ADrefid= =3Dip_... And here's a fairly recent news item on refutation of Ryan's and Pitman's hypothesis: http://www.charlotte.com/mld/o=ADbse...ws/4949335.htm BEGIN QUOTE January 14, 2003 Scientists are seriously challenging a recent, fascinating proposal that Noah's epic story -- setting sail with an ark jam-full of animal couples -- was based on an actual catastrophic flood that suddenly filled the Black Sea 7,500 years ago, forcing people to flee. In a detailed new look at the rocks, sediments, currents and seashells in and around the Black Sea, an international research team pooh-poohs the Noah flood idea, arguing that all the geologic, hydrologic and biologic signs are wrong. Little that the earth can tell us seems to fit the Noah story, they say. The new research takes direct aim at the work of two Columbia University geologists -- William Ryan and Walter Pitman -- whose proposal in 1997 ignited much new interest, and much new research, into Middle East history and geology. END QUOTE Also, Ballard did not find Noah's House, and he has recently admitted that he didn't find any evidence of human occupation of the Black Sea continental shelf, let alone any support for the BSFlood hypothesis. Here is another recent news article telling you about that (please be warned that several statements in the article are erroneous, e.g. "Scholars agree the Black Sea flooded when rising world sea levels caused the Mediterranean to burst over land and fill the then-freshwater lake."): "Black Sea Trip Yields No Flood Conclusions" http://www.puresupply.com/newa=ADp/D8458SGG3.html There was no actual ruined building found by Ballard, but rather just a partly rectangular outline of raised bed on the continental shelf, that might even be the outline of the wheelhouse of a modern freighter. To the northwest the outline continues, and narrows to a point. To the southeast, the outline continues for a shorter distance, and ends in a rounded curve. Just what you'd expect when a sunken ship's hull is covered with sediment. The wood didn't necessarily contaminate the site, it might have been part of the ship, and so accurately dates the site. The roughly-worked stones could have been the ship's ballast. If you wish, I can supply links to the writeups on Ballard's finds in professional journals. And here are a couple of scientific papers: "Is the abrupt drowning of the Black Sea shelf at 7150 yr BP a myth?" http://lava.tamu.edu/courses/g=ADeol...l=ADoodCritiq= ..=2E. "Persistent Holocene Outflow from the Black Sea to the Eastern Mediterranean Contradicts Noah's Flood Hypothesis" http://www.geosociety.org/pubs=AD/gsatoday/toc0205.htm And there's lots more, but you'd need access to scientific journals to read it, but you could ask me for more details if you want them. Some of the articles are available on the Web. Sorry to splash water in the frying pan. Daryl Krupa=20 disengage rant mode |
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Michael Coslo wrote:
But you have to admit that it is still more plausable than th e idea of of a 40 day rainfall that raises sea level at least 29,035+ feet. For goodness sake, Mike, didn't you ever see "Waterworld"? -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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