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Best all round antenna?
Hi there ladies and gents. I have a question that has most likely come up
here before, and I do apologise if this is visiting old ground. I am a novice limited license holder in Australia and pretty soon I will have access to the 10-15 and 80M bands. I would like to know what you consider as being the best all round antenna for my purpose? I have plenty of room to mount an 80M dipole antenna, although height is a problem. I can go up no more than about 50 feet. I also have a mast and rotator, so a triband yagi is also on the cards. Just looking for decent ideas here guy's. I know the question is fairly open ended, but I would like to consider all my options from those who have all the best knowledge of what works and what doesn't. To wire or not to wire? To beam or not to beam? To G5RV?????? I am running a TS-850, an MFJ 989C Tuner running 100W out of the box. Thanks very much for your time and I really appreciate your response to my questions. Warmest regards 73 de VK2HXY Troy |
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:25:42 +1100, "Troy - VK2HXY"
wrote: Hi there ladies and gents. I have a question that has most likely come up here before, and I do apologise if this is visiting old ground. I am a novice limited license holder in Australia and pretty soon I will have access to the 10-15 and 80M bands. I would like to know what you consider as being the best all round antenna for my purpose? I have plenty of room to mount an 80M dipole antenna, although height is a problem. I can go up no more than about 50 feet. I also have a mast and rotator, so a triband yagi is also on the cards. Just looking for decent ideas here guy's. I know the question is fairly open ended, but I would like to consider all my options from those who have all the best knowledge of what works and what doesn't. To wire or not to wire? To beam or not to beam? To G5RV?????? I am running a TS-850, an MFJ 989C Tuner running 100W out of the box. Thanks very much for your time and I really appreciate your response to my questions. Warmest regards 73 de VK2HXY Troy Hi Troy, As you said in your post you will get all kinds of answers. And a lot will depend upon factors that you do not mention.. I.E. what's your purpose, DX, RagChew Local or distance ?? The G5RV does a decent job on 80m but is not the best choice for 10 and 15m.. on those too bands the beam-- yagi or quad would be best if you can get the up at least 25 feet. Dipole is a good choice on 80meters even thought 50 feet is not really high on that band. if you looking for DX on 80 I would put in a vertical with good ground system as well. Just some suggestions, 73 Dave kc1di |
Thanks for the reply Dave. Well my intended purpose is for DX, although
Ragchew is definitely a bonus. I have a 80M (inverted V) about 10 foot off the ground that I am currently using for receive only and am getting great receive results from VK6,5,4 and 3, all coming in when the band is open here with 40 over 9 signal reports, not bad for such a noisy band. So if I can get that up to 50 feet that should take care of 80 for the time being I guess. I guess my questions were intended to get some discussion going for people to offer up suggestions (for and against) for my intended band usage. I have heard that many use the G5RV with a tuner with good results, although there may be better bang for the buck with other wire type antennas, or conversely, am I better running a vertical? You see my quandary? Are there any better brands of antenna for 10-15-20M in a tri-band that I should be looking for? Or rather the question should be, one's I should steer clear of? Thanks again for the advice, that's what the hobby is all about, sharing the knowledge... 73 Troy VK2HXY Sydney, Australia "KC1DI" wrote in message ... On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:25:42 +1100, "Troy - VK2HXY" wrote: Hi there ladies and gents. I have a question that has most likely come up here before, and I do apologise if this is visiting old ground. I am a novice limited license holder in Australia and pretty soon I will have access to the 10-15 and 80M bands. I would like to know what you consider as being the best all round antenna for my purpose? I have plenty of room to mount an 80M dipole antenna, although height is a problem. I can go up no more than about 50 feet. I also have a mast and rotator, so a triband yagi is also on the cards. Just looking for decent ideas here guy's. I know the question is fairly open ended, but I would like to consider all my options from those who have all the best knowledge of what works and what doesn't. To wire or not to wire? To beam or not to beam? To G5RV?????? I am running a TS-850, an MFJ 989C Tuner running 100W out of the box. Thanks very much for your time and I really appreciate your response to my questions. Warmest regards 73 de VK2HXY Troy Hi Troy, As you said in your post you will get all kinds of answers. And a lot will depend upon factors that you do not mention.. I.E. what's your purpose, DX, RagChew Local or distance ?? The G5RV does a decent job on 80m but is not the best choice for 10 and 15m.. on those too bands the beam-- yagi or quad would be best if you can get the up at least 25 feet. Dipole is a good choice on 80meters even thought 50 feet is not really high on that band. if you looking for DX on 80 I would put in a vertical with good ground system as well. Just some suggestions, 73 Dave kc1di |
One man's opinion -
Put up a 268'+/- horizontal loop, 67'+/- per side, feed it with open wire/ladder line through your tuner. Get it as high as you can. Suspend the corners of the loop through pulleys so that you can move the feed point along the circumference of the loop. Moving the feed point will shift the lobes & nulls along the azimuth (i.e. rotate the pattern). This will be a good 80 meter antenna for local work & a good DX antenna on 10, 12 & 15. |
Troy,
You really want 2 antennas. 1. A dipole for 80 meters. 50 feet is not that bad; there are many that are lower. 2. A rotatable antenna of some kind for 10/15. At this point, I don't know of any that don't also work 20, but then, you might upgrade. If you want to keep cost down, I would get a 2 element triband beam. These are light enough to mount on a TV rotator. Doing it this way you don't have to mess around with antenna tuners. The money you save will pay for the tribander. I have a Hygain TH3MK4 at about 42 feet. This appears to be about optimum for 15 meters. Tam/WB2TT "Troy - VK2HXY" wrote in message ... Hi there ladies and gents. I have a question that has most likely come up here before, and I do apologise if this is visiting old ground. I am a novice limited license holder in Australia and pretty soon I will have access to the 10-15 and 80M bands. I would like to know what you consider as being the best all round antenna for my purpose? I have plenty of room to mount an 80M dipole antenna, although height is a problem. I can go up no more than about 50 feet. I also have a mast and rotator, so a triband yagi is also on the cards. Just looking for decent ideas here guy's. I know the question is fairly open ended, but I would like to consider all my options from those who have all the best knowledge of what works and what doesn't. To wire or not to wire? To beam or not to beam? To G5RV?????? I am running a TS-850, an MFJ 989C Tuner running 100W out of the box. Thanks very much for your time and I really appreciate your response to my questions. Warmest regards 73 de VK2HXY Troy |
You can build a fan dipole for 1, 15, and 80..that would give you the bands you
are looking for..here's a link to one: http://www.hamuniverse.com/multidipole.html I just completed my 80 meter loop but can't comment on the performance as I have to run the feedline through the wall before I can put her on the air. Good luck... Steve kb8viv |
You can build a fan dipole for 1, 15, and 80..
Thats supposed to be 10,15, and 80. Steve kb8viv |
Bob Miller wrote:
If you simply feed your 80m dipole entirely with 450-ohm ladderline, and run it through your 989c tuner, it should tune the higher bands, as well, without any great feedline loss. Check your tuner manual for feedline lengths to avoid. Or vary the length of the feedline as shown on my web page and enjoy all HF bands without the need for a conventional tuner. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:24:50 +1100, "Troy - VK2HXY"
wrote: Thanks for the reply Dave. Well my intended purpose is for DX, although Ragchew is definitely a bonus. I have a 80M (inverted V) about 10 foot off the ground that I am currently using for receive only and am getting great receive results from VK6,5,4 and 3, all coming in when the band is open here with 40 over 9 signal reports, not bad for such a noisy band. So if I can get that up to 50 feet that should take care of 80 for the time being I guess. I guess my questions were intended to get some discussion going for people to offer up suggestions (for and against) for my intended band usage. I have heard that many use the G5RV with a tuner with good results, although there may be better bang for the buck with other wire type antennas, or conversely, am I better running a vertical? You see my quandary? If you simply feed your 80m dipole entirely with 450-ohm ladderline, and run it through your 989c tuner, it should tune the higher bands, as well, without any great feedline loss. Check your tuner manual for feedline lengths to avoid. You might see how well that works for you, and then if it's not the best on the dx bands, go for the beam. Bob k5qwg Are there any better brands of antenna for 10-15-20M in a tri-band that I should be looking for? Or rather the question should be, one's I should steer clear of? Thanks again for the advice, that's what the hobby is all about, sharing the knowledge... 73 Troy VK2HXY Sydney, Australia "KC1DI" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:25:42 +1100, "Troy - VK2HXY" wrote: Hi there ladies and gents. I have a question that has most likely come up here before, and I do apologise if this is visiting old ground. I am a novice limited license holder in Australia and pretty soon I will have access to the 10-15 and 80M bands. I would like to know what you consider as being the best all round antenna for my purpose? I have plenty of room to mount an 80M dipole antenna, although height is a problem. I can go up no more than about 50 feet. I also have a mast and rotator, so a triband yagi is also on the cards. Just looking for decent ideas here guy's. I know the question is fairly open ended, but I would like to consider all my options from those who have all the best knowledge of what works and what doesn't. To wire or not to wire? To beam or not to beam? To G5RV?????? I am running a TS-850, an MFJ 989C Tuner running 100W out of the box. Thanks very much for your time and I really appreciate your response to my questions. Warmest regards 73 de VK2HXY Troy Hi Troy, As you said in your post you will get all kinds of answers. And a lot will depend upon factors that you do not mention.. I.E. what's your purpose, DX, RagChew Local or distance ?? The G5RV does a decent job on 80m but is not the best choice for 10 and 15m.. on those too bands the beam-- yagi or quad would be best if you can get the up at least 25 feet. Dipole is a good choice on 80meters even thought 50 feet is not really high on that band. if you looking for DX on 80 I would put in a vertical with good ground system as well. Just some suggestions, 73 Dave kc1di |
Yeah, that 1 megahertz dipole might be a little large for the average yard
:) "Desmoface" wrote in message ... You can build a fan dipole for 1, 15, and 80.. Thats supposed to be 10,15, and 80. Steve kb8viv |
"Mikey" wrote in message ...
Troy, for 10/15 meters, it's tough to beat a directed array (i.e., a beam). To that end, you'll get the most bang for your buck from a quad. Period. If you're looking at a G5RV, look instead at a Skelton Cone. With your current transmitter/tuner combo, it will go from 10 through 80 meters, and in fact, naturally resonates somewhere in the 10/12 meter area. I haven't run any models on it myself, but others have told me that it actually shows gain on 40 and 75/80 meters. I don't have any e-files on it, but I can snaily a drawing to you if you can't find any other info on it. Of course, these are just my own opinions, and are based solely on emperical performance observations. Your mileage may vary... 73, Mike KI6PR El Rancho R.F., CA "Troy - VK2HXY" wrote Hi there ladies and gents. I have a question that has most likely come up here before, and I do apologise if this is visiting old ground. I am a novice limited license holder in Australia and pretty soon I will have access to the 10-15 and 80M bands. I would like to know what you consider as being the best all round antenna for my purpose? I have plenty of room to mount an 80M dipole antenna, although height is a problem. I can go up no more than about 50 feet. I also have a mast and rotator, so a triband yagi is also on the cards. Just looking for decent ideas here guy's. I know the question is fairly open ended, but I would like to consider all my options from those who have all the best knowledge of what works and what doesn't. To wire or not to wire? To beam or not to beam? To G5RV?????? I am running a TS-850, an MFJ 989C Tuner running 100W out of the box. Thanks very much for your time and I really appreciate your response to my questions. Warmest regards 73 de VK2HXY Troy Troy, Before you do anything check what directions will provide the most enjoyment. From where you in front and beyond Perth that would gain your attention? Same goes for the Northern territories or the interior. You could also take bands above 20 out of consideration as the 11 year cycle now provides diminishing returns. So in your particular case there is more to an antenna selection than say in Europe and the U.S. A wet noodle will only give you something to chew on and not the customary ragchew. Cheers Art |
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:34:55 -0800, "Mikey" wrote:
If you're looking at a G5RV, look instead at a Skelton Cone. With your current transmitter/tuner combo, it will go from 10 through 80 meters, and in fact, naturally resonates somewhere in the 10/12 meter area. I haven't run any models on it myself, but others have told me that it actually shows gain on 40 and 75/80 meters. I don't have any e-files on it, but I can snaily a drawing to you if you can't find any other info on it. Of course, these are just my own opinions, and are based solely on emperical performance observations. Your mileage may vary... Hi Mike, Skeleton Cone???? I presume you mean Discone. Either way, and as a vertical, this would not work very well to enjoy that "paper gain." If it works at 80M (which would mean it is roughly 50 feet tall covering 8000 sq feet - about one large, or two small residential lots) would suggest its best radiation advantage for 10M is straight up. Even though Discones (or other broadband antennas) have wide matching characterisitics, their actual radiation performance varies considerable over that same span of frequency. If you expect to find significant gain, you need the discone to be significantly larger, with a significantly wide cone skirt. In other words, something on the order of an HF Horn design. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC |
Howdy, Toy
Best all around antenna is a center fed doublet fed with balanced TL such as transmitting twin lead, ladder line, or open wire line. Make sure that the sending end of this TL "sees" balanced source. Mine is 130 ft long fed with 300-Ohm transmitting twin lead. I use it on all bands 80 thru 10. I have also used it on 6M with my tuner straining to get a match. On 40 the theoretical gain over a dipole is said to be 1.8 dB. If you can only have one antenna, this is your best bet. 73 es gud luck, Jack K9CUN |
JDer8745 wrote:
Best all around antenna is a center fed doublet fed with balanced TL such as transmitting twin lead, ladder line, or open wire line. He asked for the best all *round* antenna. Your antenna is not round at all. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Thanks heaps to all who have replied so far. It really is nice to see so
many people willing to share the knowledge with those less in the know. Warmest regards to all, and if anyone want's to make more recommendations, feel free. 73 de VK2HXY Troy Sydney Australia "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... JDer8745 wrote: Best all around antenna is a center fed doublet fed with balanced TL such as transmitting twin lead, ladder line, or open wire line. He asked for the best all *round* antenna. Your antenna is not round at all. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Tarmo, Or, you could look at it in the opposite way. The tuner would replace the beam, tower, and rotor at a net savings of ~probably~ the price of the tuner. I wonder why people are so 'afraid' of tuners? 'Doc |
"'Doc" wrote in message ... Tarmo, Or, you could look at it in the opposite way. The tuner would replace the beam, tower, and rotor at a net savings of ~probably~ the price of the tuner. I wonder why people are so 'afraid' of tuners? 'Doc OK, how about this: I was just listening to an EA8 on 20 meters. He was S9 on the tribander, and S4 on the 75 meter antenna. Also, why have a no tune transmitter when you have to retune the antenna tuner when you change frequency. Tam/WB2TT |
Tarmo, Wrote in part; Also, why have a no tune transmitter when you have to retune the antenna tuner when you change frequency. Well, lets see. 1. No tower, or room for a beam antenna. 2. Hand, wrist, and arm not broken, sprained, strained, or lazy. 3. The 'no tune' transmitter wasn't ~my~ idea. I don't mind tuning. 4. Simplifies antenna system. 5. Even if I think antennas are beautiful, neighbors don't. 6. Don't really care if 'they' hear me S-9 or S-4, as long as they hear me. Same for hearing 'them'. 7. Had a tribander. The loop did as well and in some instances better. (Do have to admit the tribander wasn't up very high.) 8. Don't have to worry about a rotor and everything associated with one. 9. And... we're talking about a "best" 'all around antenna' which implies not having several. No ~one~ antenna does everything well, there are always compromises in performance vs. simplicity. Some would rather use a tuner than have a number of antennas, some won't. I really don't think it'll make much difference either way... 'Doc |
"JDer8745" wrote in message
... Howdy, Toy Best all around antenna is a center fed doublet fed with balanced TL such as transmitting twin lead, ladder line, or open wire line. Dont forget a balanced feedline radiates along the line. You may have to deal with this somehow with the Australian Communications Authority's new radiation guidelines. |
Michael wrote:
Dont forget a balanced feedline radiates along the line. If the currents are balanced, most of the photons are re-absorbed by the free electrons. OTOH, if the currents inside a coax feedline are not balanced, an unbalanced feedline radiates along the line. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Not if the currents are balanced.
"Michael" wrote in message ... "JDer8745" wrote in message ... Howdy, Toy Best all around antenna is a center fed doublet fed with balanced TL such as transmitting twin lead, ladder line, or open wire line. Dont forget a balanced feedline radiates along the line. You may have to deal with this somehow with the Australian Communications Authority's new radiation guidelines. |
I actually meant to say induced currents not radiated since this is near
field. Given that the ACA's radiation guidlines talks about near fields and not far fields its probably appropriate to consider induced currents from open wire feeders to nearby people. As most transceivers have an unbalanced output its just as easy to make it unbalanced at the antenna end of the transmission line anyway unless you want to use the transmission line as part of the antenna / impedance match. Then you can be reasonably sure there will be no radiation induced into humans near your transmission line and be in compliance with the ACA regulations (and safer for others I guess). "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Michael wrote: Dont forget a balanced feedline radiates along the line. If the currents are balanced, most of the photons are re-absorbed by the free electrons. OTOH, if the currents inside a coax feedline are not balanced, an unbalanced feedline radiates along the line. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
"Michael" wrote in message
... I actually meant to say induced currents not radiated since this is near field. Given that the ACA's radiation guidlines talks about near fields and not far fields its probably appropriate to consider induced currents from open wire feeders to nearby people. From memory it specifies maximum volts/area to the distance where person can gain access to the antenna. It also mentions a maximum flux/area or it could be a certain induced current in some standard measurement device I think. I haven't looked at it for over a year now. It all doesn't matter too much when youre using coax anyway so then you can use the standard tables they give you. |
Howdy,
If the currents in the two conductors are equal in amplitude and 180 degrees out of phase, there would be no significant rf field if you are a few interconductor distances away from the line. 73 de Jack, K9CUN |
The wires are oriented 180 degrees 'out of phase', so they will then add.
Steve k'9'd'c'i "JDer8745" wrote in message ... Howdy, If the currents in the two conductors are equal in amplitude and 180 degrees out of phase, there would be no significant rf field if you are a few interconductor distances away from the line. 73 de Jack, K9CUN |
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