|
Bob Dylan song lyrics
Come mothers and fathers Throughout the land And don't criticize What you can't understand Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command Your old road is Rapidly changin'. Please get out of the new one If you can't lend your hand For the times they are a-changin'. -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! The times is a changing -- Bob Dylan -- CL -- A 20 wpm Extra since 1979 "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message ... Remember the golden rule! "He who has the gold makes the rules" We old farts have it and the young bucks want it, makes us right no matter what! It is my intention to be a professional curmudgeon until I am looking at the grass from the bottom... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Fred: I disagree. Most of the problems we see in academia is that the mindset has changed. Older personalities have quite some difficulty in coping with the new generations, it has always been like that though, just more intense in this age (but what isn't?) |
Ham op:
I am in my 50's, age is becoming a bit of a problem here, I can extrapolate and get some kind of a picture of it being a bit more of a problem for you then--if you are older. Your posts certainly don't reflect such limitations, although we may be "out of sync" on some points, you pose good conversation. Remember, when all is said and done, we must shake hands and have a drink together... John "Ham op" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Ham op: SNIPPED I only work on the mikes, low pass/high pass/bandpass filters, linears and feedlines, antennas, parts which are still big enough to handle... SNIPPED Well at my age, I only work on stuff I can see. That is limited by aging shakes in my hands. But I can still find a screw driver somewhere, if I can find my glasses. This morning I couldn't get out of bed when I woke up. I couldn't find the floor without my glasses. :-) It's a shame yo get old! |
Fred:
YOU HAVE SPIRIT MAN!!! You have spirit! chuckle There is room for us, don't let 'em tell ya different--I am plotting to hang in there too!!! John "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message ... Remember the golden rule! "He who has the gold makes the rules" We old farts have it and the young bucks want it, makes us right no matter what! It is my intention to be a professional curmudgeon until I am looking at the grass from the bottom... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Fred: I disagree. Most of the problems we see in academia is that the mindset has changed. Older personalities have quite some difficulty in coping with the new generations, it has always been like that though, just more intense in this age (but what isn't?) |
John Smith wrote:
Remember, when all is said and done, we must shake hands and have a drink together... Would that be in heaven or the other place? :-) -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Caveat:
Repeaters have always been as much fun for me as a phone line, and I end up using a phone mainly for business. (the internet is great though--IRC chat, IM, messengers, newsgroups, etc) Standalone HF equip is just a whole 'nother world. Frankly, I am glad I have found agreement in "newbie hams." No one likes to be such a total freak there are none in agreement! John "Caveat Lector" wrote in message news:r%rGe.22442$HV1.8489@fed1read07... Nope the FCC makes the rules You can beat up on the new non-technical hams OR help them The choice is yours. In our area, we run a weekly 2M Ham Help net Our repeater is open to any technical question, no matter how basic. Periodic classes are conducted for Tech and General -- success rate is quite high. And many of our no-code Techs are very active in emergency communications, PR communicators, field day, and many other useful avenues of ham radio. Quite a number have advanced to General and Extra. The times is a changing -- Bob Dylan -- CL -- A 20 wpm Extra since 1979 "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message ... Remember the golden rule! "He who has the gold makes the rules" We old farts have it and the young bucks want it, makes us right no matter what! It is my intention to be a professional curmudgeon until I am looking at the grass from the bottom... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Fred: I disagree. Most of the problems we see in academia is that the mindset has changed. Older personalities have quite some difficulty in coping with the new generations, it has always been like that though, just more intense in this age (but what isn't?) |
Cecil:
I'd just about bet, your first job/corp/supervisor felt just about the same about you (me too for that matter), some of those old guys were great though--they even managed to hide their disgust of our ignorance from us--but they had better training back then!!! innocent-look John "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Fred W4JLE wrote: The mantra today is "I want it so give it to me!" My dog is like that but I love her anyway. And it's typical of most animal species. So shouldn't the blame lie instead with the governmental bureaucrats who freely dole out the welfare packages? -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Caveat:
Only decent tubes (radio valves) which are still made are russian--aren't they? John "Caveat Lector" wrote in message news:IsrGe.22435$HV1.3739@fed1read07... Thank you - curiosity satisfied. Just curious as how often these are used today I do know about colpitts, hartley, pierce, wien, clapp, TGTP, relaxation, crystal, negative resistance, dynatron, etc Anyone remember the dynatron oscillator? Tetrodes me lads tetrodes. -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I ask "Ham op" wrote in message ... Caveat Lector wrote: Just out of curousity -- what modern Ham gear uses a Colpitts oscillator or a swinging choke ?? Then why ask these questions on a 2005 Ham test ?? Maybe ask about a VCO or a crowbar circuit ?? All of them!!! The reference oscillator in every phase locked loop is generally a Colpitt's oscillator. I suspect that every oscillator in the VCO circuit is also Colpitt's. By simply asking the question you make the point!!! The required level of knowledge for a license today is significantly poorer than 40 or 50 years ago. |
John Smith wrote:
I'd just about bet, your first job/corp/supervisor felt just about the same about you (me too for that matter), ... "Cecil Moore" wrote in message So shouldn't the blame lie instead with the governmental bureaucrats who freely dole out the welfare packages? Please note that I didn't utter a word about private enterprise. I have never worked for a government. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Nice reply that I have no problem with, however the conversation was about
current graduates of our institutions of higher learning. Nothing about code/nocode or hams. "Caveat Lector" wrote in message news:r%rGe.22442$HV1.8489@fed1read07... Nope the FCC makes the rules You can beat up on the new non-technical hams OR help them The choice is yours. In our area, we run a weekly 2M Ham Help net Our repeater is open to any technical question, no matter how basic. Periodic classes are conducted for Tech and General -- success rate is quite high. And many of our no-code Techs are very active in emergency communications, PR communicators, field day, and many other useful avenues of ham radio. Quite a number have advanced to General and Extra. The times is a changing -- Bob Dylan -- CL -- A 20 wpm Extra since 1979 "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message ... Remember the golden rule! "He who has the gold makes the rules" We old farts have it and the young bucks want it, makes us right no matter what! It is my intention to be a professional curmudgeon until I am looking at the grass from the bottom... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Fred: I disagree. Most of the problems we see in academia is that the mindset has changed. Older personalities have quite some difficulty in coping with the new generations, it has always been like that though, just more intense in this age (but what isn't?) |
Wes:
By "master clock" (or bus clock), I take it the digital osc on my motherboard running at 266Mhz and exists as chip with an in-house part number only, can't really check. I suspect it to be a UHF-high precision op amp with crystal controlled feedback used as an osc, or a set of digital logic gates with osc established though xtal feedback--either way, a square wave out. John "Wes Stewart" wrote in message ... On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:59:49 -0700, "John Smith" wrote: Wes: Those osc are a thing of the past... I beg to differ. Bring a junk am broadcast radio near your computer, you will hear literal dozens (well, a bunch anyway!) of osc's freqs going on there, probably not one being generated by a colpitts, hartley or pierce osc circuit... And, with the proper processing, all those waves could be a sine... In all likelyhood, the master clock oscillator for the microprocessor is a Pierce xtal oscillator. All of the other garbage is derived from that. There may also be plug-in cards with their own clock, most likely another Pierce. In case you've forgotten, these are -digital- circuits, sine waves need not apply. Why you guys think that the computer guys have invented some new -magic- oscillator is beyond me. Wait a minute..... maybe I understand after all. |
But we had one thing lacking today, it is called respect.
You, just yesterday tried to point out to a poster his lack of respect for Roy. Accomplishments are viewed by the youth of today as a thing to distain, as it makes those who have accomplished nothing feel bad. "Let's play soccer, but no score keeping so no one loses" "It feels bad to lose, and we don't want to make anyone feel bad" "Everyone should receive A's so no one can feel superior, making someone feel inferior is not a good thing" "WE CAN'T PROFILE TERRORISTS AS IT WOULD CREATE NEGATIVE MESSAGES, MAKING THEM FEEL BAD" "John Smith" wrote in message ... Cecil: I'd just about bet, your first job/corp/supervisor felt just about the same about you (me too for that matter), some of those old guys were great though--they even managed to hide their disgust of our ignorance from us--but they had better training back then!!! innocent-look John "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Fred W4JLE wrote: The mantra today is "I want it so give it to me!" My dog is like that but I love her anyway. And it's typical of most animal species. So shouldn't the blame lie instead with the governmental bureaucrats who freely dole out the welfare packages? -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
I wonder if the big one hit, how many of the "now" generation would be able
to solve something as simple as square roots sans a calculator. Technology has replaced learning... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Fred: YOU HAVE SPIRIT MAN!!! You have spirit! chuckle There is room for us, don't let 'em tell ya different--I am plotting to hang in there too!!! John |
Cecil:
Damn man! I am counting on both. But, can I ask you a question? After our younger years, how are you so sure it will be heaven? John |
Fred:
Perish the thought that all those old square root charts should be consumed in a catastrophe!!! But, just in case, I have already started whittling a slide rule! John "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message ... I wonder if the big one hit, how many of the "now" generation would be able to solve something as simple as square roots sans a calculator. Technology has replaced learning... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Fred: YOU HAVE SPIRIT MAN!!! You have spirit! chuckle There is room for us, don't let 'em tell ya different--I am plotting to hang in there too!!! John |
Fred:
Well, I am a bit embarrassed about that, perhaps I was bit rash... I should have explained in better words that he obviously did not know Roy's history and past record of accomplishments, or obvious contributions to the field. It is one thing to carry on a difficult argument with unknown personalities here, quite another to attack known ones--that was my point really. Frankly, that poster was able to annoy me... I am working on becoming a better person, seems it is going to take a lifetime... Still, that poster is probably a big boy and can withstand my loss of demeanor... John "Fred W4JLE" wrote in message ... But we had one thing lacking today, it is called respect. You, just yesterday tried to point out to a poster his lack of respect for Roy. Accomplishments are viewed by the youth of today as a thing to distain, as it makes those who have accomplished nothing feel bad. "Let's play soccer, but no score keeping so no one loses" "It feels bad to lose, and we don't want to make anyone feel bad" "Everyone should receive A's so no one can feel superior, making someone feel inferior is not a good thing" "WE CAN'T PROFILE TERRORISTS AS IT WOULD CREATE NEGATIVE MESSAGES, MAKING THEM FEEL BAD" "John Smith" wrote in message ... Cecil: I'd just about bet, your first job/corp/supervisor felt just about the same about you (me too for that matter), some of those old guys were great though--they even managed to hide their disgust of our ignorance from us--but they had better training back then!!! innocent-look John "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... Fred W4JLE wrote: The mantra today is "I want it so give it to me!" My dog is like that but I love her anyway. And it's typical of most animal species. So shouldn't the blame lie instead with the governmental bureaucrats who freely dole out the welfare packages? -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
John Smith wrote:
Wes: Those osc are a thing of the past... Bring a junk am broadcast radio near your computer, you will hear literal dozens (well, a bunch anyway!) of osc's freqs going on there, probably not one being generated by a colpitts, hartley or pierce osc circuit... And, with the proper processing, all those waves could be a sine... John Each of those oscillators use a crystal for frequency and stability! Each of those oscillators uses positive feedback so that it oscillates. Draw the equivalent circuit of those oscillators and you will find the COLPITTS circuit !!!! I wonder if you are confusing the Coplitts/Hartley topography with the old VFO which were/are variable tuned [Colpitts/Hartley] oscillators. Every digital frequency synthesizer uses a Colpitts oscillator as the reference oscillator, at a fixed frequency, and the variable oscillator is digitally phase locked to it. The basic Physics and governing laws for oscillators has not changed. |
I'm closer to 68 than 67.
John Smith wrote: Ham op: I am in my 50's, age is becoming a bit of a problem here, I can extrapolate and get some kind of a picture of it being a bit more of a problem for you then--if you are older. Your posts certainly don't reflect such limitations, although we may be "out of sync" on some points, you pose good conversation. Remember, when all is said and done, we must shake hands and have a drink together... John "Ham op" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Ham op: SNIPPED I only work on the mikes, low pass/high pass/bandpass filters, linears and feedlines, antennas, parts which are still big enough to handle... SNIPPED Well at my age, I only work on stuff I can see. That is limited by aging shakes in my hands. But I can still find a screw driver somewhere, if I can find my glasses. This morning I couldn't get out of bed when I woke up. I couldn't find the floor without my glasses. :-) It's a shame yo get old! |
HEAVEN!!! for goodness sakes!
Cecil Moore wrote: John Smith wrote: Remember, when all is said and done, we must shake hands and have a drink together... Would that be in heaven or the other place? :-) |
John Smith wrote:
Caveat: Only decent tubes (radio valves) which are still made are russian--aren't they? John Oh my God!! Does that mean that my old friend, DeForest, has gone out of business?? |
Ham op:
Just drew the circuit of a xtal in the feedback of a high precision op amp circuit... hmmm, could be colpitts--but can't see the resemblance... Just drew the circuit of an xtal chucked in the feedback line of a set of logic gates... hmmm, that could be colpitts too, but again, can't see the resemblance... John "Ham op" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Wes: Those osc are a thing of the past... Bring a junk am broadcast radio near your computer, you will hear literal dozens (well, a bunch anyway!) of osc's freqs going on there, probably not one being generated by a colpitts, hartley or pierce osc circuit... And, with the proper processing, all those waves could be a sine... John Each of those oscillators use a crystal for frequency and stability! Each of those oscillators uses positive feedback so that it oscillates. Draw the equivalent circuit of those oscillators and you will find the COLPITTS circuit !!!! I wonder if you are confusing the Coplitts/Hartley topography with the old VFO which were/are variable tuned [Colpitts/Hartley] oscillators. Every digital frequency synthesizer uses a Colpitts oscillator as the reference oscillator, at a fixed frequency, and the variable oscillator is digitally phase locked to it. The basic Physics and governing laws for oscillators has not changed. |
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:33:53 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote: Ham op: Just drew the circuit of a xtal in the feedback of a high precision op amp circuit... hmmm, could be colpitts--but can't see the resemblance... Just drew the circuit of an xtal chucked in the feedback line of a set of logic gates... hmmm, that could be colpitts too, but again, can't see the resemblance... Draw a transistor (FET, or triode) with a capacitor from collector (drain, plate) to emitter (source, cathode), an inductor from collector to base (gate, grid), and a capacitor from base to emitter. Ground the emitter and everything connected to it and take the output from the collector. You have a Pierce. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Pierce oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Ground the collector and everything connected to it and take the output from the emitter. You have a Colpitts. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Colpitts oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Insert a crystal between the emitter and the two capacitors connected to it and take the output from the emitter and you have a crystal oscillator operating at series (or overtone) resonance. Stick a varactor in there someplace and you have a VCO or VCXO. Clapp, Vacker, Franklin, Butler.... they are all just variations on an old theme. |
Wes:
Of course there are millions, if not billions of 'em in my computer, encased in the chips there, but having viewed many, many spec sheets and diagrams of the internal geometry of the chips, can't say I would really bet there is a colpitts commanding the freq of the bus in my computer, nor the daughter boards in their... Now you might be right, it is just an argument I must defer from, since reliable data one way or another cannot be obtained without expending more effort than I am prepared to expend... I'll even grant you a win by default--the argument simply is not deserving of my time, and anyone with access to the internet can look at a diagram depicting components used in the clocks of "modern circuits." John "Wes Stewart" wrote in message ... On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:33:53 -0700, "John Smith" wrote: Ham op: Just drew the circuit of a xtal in the feedback of a high precision op amp circuit... hmmm, could be colpitts--but can't see the resemblance... Just drew the circuit of an xtal chucked in the feedback line of a set of logic gates... hmmm, that could be colpitts too, but again, can't see the resemblance... Draw a transistor (FET, or triode) with a capacitor from collector (drain, plate) to emitter (source, cathode), an inductor from collector to base (gate, grid), and a capacitor from base to emitter. Ground the emitter and everything connected to it and take the output from the collector. You have a Pierce. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Pierce oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Ground the collector and everything connected to it and take the output from the emitter. You have a Colpitts. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Colpitts oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Insert a crystal between the emitter and the two capacitors connected to it and take the output from the emitter and you have a crystal oscillator operating at series (or overtone) resonance. Stick a varactor in there someplace and you have a VCO or VCXO. Clapp, Vacker, Franklin, Butler.... they are all just variations on an old theme. |
Ham op wrote:
HEAVEN!!! for goodness sakes! If it's the heaven my Southern Baptist tetotaler mother told me about, the drinks will be severely limited to water and grape juice. :-) Cecil Moore wrote: John Smith wrote: Remember, when all is said and done, we must shake hands and have a drink together... Would that be in heaven or the other place? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:47:39 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote: Wes: Of course there are millions, if not billions of 'em in my computer, encased in the chips there, but having viewed many, many spec sheets and diagrams of the internal geometry of the chips, can't say I would really bet there is a colpitts commanding the freq of the bus in my computer, nor the daughter boards in their...(sic) Well, there is usually only one oscillator, not billions, and I'm sure that I said "Pierce", not Colpitts. Now you might be right, it is just an argument I must defer from, since reliable data one way or another cannot be obtained without expending more effort than I am prepared to expend... I'll even grant you a win by default--the argument simply is not deserving of my time, and anyone with access to the internet can look at a diagram depicting components used in the clocks of "modern circuits." I just did a little "data mining." Out of the last 188 posts in this forum, you made 47 of them, or 25%. Perhaps if you "expended some of the effort" that you waste writing every fourth post you would have a little time to actually research what you're saying -before- you write about it. Just a thought. BTW, I wasn't trying to "win", I was trying to correct the insane idea that knowledge of "old time" oscillators is unworthy of study when talking about "modern" radios. The fact that this belief exists is proof positive that questions about these things should remain in the amateur exams. But expending effort to learn the basics is too much effort for "modern" hams. Plus the applicant's self-esteem might suffer if he has to gain a little knowledge of electronics, antennas, transmission lines, good operating practice and Morse code, so I suppose the FCC should just issue licenses to anyone who makes a request. "Wes Stewart" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:33:53 -0700, "John Smith" wrote: Ham op: Just drew the circuit of a xtal in the feedback of a high precision op amp circuit... hmmm, could be colpitts--but can't see the resemblance... Just drew the circuit of an xtal chucked in the feedback line of a set of logic gates... hmmm, that could be colpitts too, but again, can't see the resemblance... Draw a transistor (FET, or triode) with a capacitor from collector (drain, plate) to emitter (source, cathode), an inductor from collector to base (gate, grid), and a capacitor from base to emitter. Ground the emitter and everything connected to it and take the output from the collector. You have a Pierce. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Pierce oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Ground the collector and everything connected to it and take the output from the emitter. You have a Colpitts. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Colpitts oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Insert a crystal between the emitter and the two capacitors connected to it and take the output from the emitter and you have a crystal oscillator operating at series (or overtone) resonance. Stick a varactor in there someplace and you have a VCO or VCXO. Clapp, Vacker, Franklin, Butler.... they are all just variations on an old theme. |
My sentiments exactly. Thanks for saying it Wes.
73, Larry, W0QE Wes Stewart wrote: I just did a little "data mining." Out of the last 188 posts in this forum, you made 47 of them, or 25%. Perhaps if you "expended some of the effort" that you waste writing every fourth post you would have a little time to actually research what you're saying -before- you write about it. Just a thought. |
Wes:
I had dropped the all important word "transistors" in reference to "millions... billions". I never dreamed anyone could be mistaken that someone was claiming that many osc's in a computer, but you never can tell about the CB'ers--they might think so! Here is a mess of stuff on clocks, osc's which are generally used in digital equip these days (and this is stuff I am used to, a decade old or better technology, probably two decades!): .... it should be apparent mr. pierce is not here in (at least most) of this material: Simple logic gate oscillator: http://www.it.lth.se/digp/PDF_files/oscillators.pdf Design of op amp oscillators: http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slyt164/slyt164.pdf CMOS oscillator: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...ASCIISCHEM_004 Clock divider: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...s/clockdiv.txt clock doubler: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...ckdoubler.html square wave to sine converter: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...quare2sine.txt pdf on digital oscillators: http://online.physics.uiuc.edu/cours..._TTL_Logic.pdf Computer project, using 7404 as a clock: https://www.cs.tcd.ie/Jeremy.Jones/3d2/3d2project.htm John "Wes Stewart" wrote in message ... On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:47:39 -0700, "John Smith" wrote: Wes: Of course there are millions, if not billions of 'em in my computer, encased in the chips there, but having viewed many, many spec sheets and diagrams of the internal geometry of the chips, can't say I would really bet there is a colpitts commanding the freq of the bus in my computer, nor the daughter boards in their...(sic) Well, there is usually only one oscillator, not billions, and I'm sure that I said "Pierce", not Colpitts. Now you might be right, it is just an argument I must defer from, since reliable data one way or another cannot be obtained without expending more effort than I am prepared to expend... I'll even grant you a win by default--the argument simply is not deserving of my time, and anyone with access to the internet can look at a diagram depicting components used in the clocks of "modern circuits." I just did a little "data mining." Out of the last 188 posts in this forum, you made 47 of them, or 25%. Perhaps if you "expended some of the effort" that you waste writing every fourth post you would have a little time to actually research what you're saying -before- you write about it. Just a thought. BTW, I wasn't trying to "win", I was trying to correct the insane idea that knowledge of "old time" oscillators is unworthy of study when talking about "modern" radios. The fact that this belief exists is proof positive that questions about these things should remain in the amateur exams. But expending effort to learn the basics is too much effort for "modern" hams. Plus the applicant's self-esteem might suffer if he has to gain a little knowledge of electronics, antennas, transmission lines, good operating practice and Morse code, so I suppose the FCC should just issue licenses to anyone who makes a request. "Wes Stewart" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:33:53 -0700, "John Smith" wrote: Ham op: Just drew the circuit of a xtal in the feedback of a high precision op amp circuit... hmmm, could be colpitts--but can't see the resemblance... Just drew the circuit of an xtal chucked in the feedback line of a set of logic gates... hmmm, that could be colpitts too, but again, can't see the resemblance... Draw a transistor (FET, or triode) with a capacitor from collector (drain, plate) to emitter (source, cathode), an inductor from collector to base (gate, grid), and a capacitor from base to emitter. Ground the emitter and everything connected to it and take the output from the collector. You have a Pierce. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Pierce oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Ground the collector and everything connected to it and take the output from the emitter. You have a Colpitts. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Colpitts oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Insert a crystal between the emitter and the two capacitors connected to it and take the output from the emitter and you have a crystal oscillator operating at series (or overtone) resonance. Stick a varactor in there someplace and you have a VCO or VCXO. Clapp, Vacker, Franklin, Butler.... they are all just variations on an old theme. |
Wes:
On promptness of my responses... (I am truly flattered my posts are worthy of such analysis on your part! I would never have bothered gathering the statistics!) I wrote a c++ utility/plug-in for outlook express, if I mark someone as being of interest to me, when they post I am immediately notified with a small icon and an audible alarm is given, if I click on the icon I can read their post and begin a response immediately--if desired... Now, don't go to thinking you are special, however, when your posts turn interesting (or adversarial grin) I mark you (you are a "marked man" during those times! grin)... I have other tricks too... however, be warned, I consider this to be only a newsgroup, my posts, indeed, everyone else's posts too, are just NOT that important as some things in life... quick responses which may, or may not, be well thought out are quickly typed and sent--I go back to what I was doing... Don't get me wrong though, a person is as likely to come upon a nugget of knowledge here, as anywhere, I suppose... anyway, there is a real "enjoyment factor" which exits here, that is why we are here--isn't it? Frankly, it is a bit of a hobby, just one a guy can do while doing a load of other things... John "Wes Stewart" wrote in message ... On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:47:39 -0700, "John Smith" wrote: Wes: Of course there are millions, if not billions of 'em in my computer, encased in the chips there, but having viewed many, many spec sheets and diagrams of the internal geometry of the chips, can't say I would really bet there is a colpitts commanding the freq of the bus in my computer, nor the daughter boards in their...(sic) Well, there is usually only one oscillator, not billions, and I'm sure that I said "Pierce", not Colpitts. Now you might be right, it is just an argument I must defer from, since reliable data one way or another cannot be obtained without expending more effort than I am prepared to expend... I'll even grant you a win by default--the argument simply is not deserving of my time, and anyone with access to the internet can look at a diagram depicting components used in the clocks of "modern circuits." I just did a little "data mining." Out of the last 188 posts in this forum, you made 47 of them, or 25%. Perhaps if you "expended some of the effort" that you waste writing every fourth post you would have a little time to actually research what you're saying -before- you write about it. Just a thought. BTW, I wasn't trying to "win", I was trying to correct the insane idea that knowledge of "old time" oscillators is unworthy of study when talking about "modern" radios. The fact that this belief exists is proof positive that questions about these things should remain in the amateur exams. But expending effort to learn the basics is too much effort for "modern" hams. Plus the applicant's self-esteem might suffer if he has to gain a little knowledge of electronics, antennas, transmission lines, good operating practice and Morse code, so I suppose the FCC should just issue licenses to anyone who makes a request. "Wes Stewart" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:33:53 -0700, "John Smith" wrote: Ham op: Just drew the circuit of a xtal in the feedback of a high precision op amp circuit... hmmm, could be colpitts--but can't see the resemblance... Just drew the circuit of an xtal chucked in the feedback line of a set of logic gates... hmmm, that could be colpitts too, but again, can't see the resemblance... Draw a transistor (FET, or triode) with a capacitor from collector (drain, plate) to emitter (source, cathode), an inductor from collector to base (gate, grid), and a capacitor from base to emitter. Ground the emitter and everything connected to it and take the output from the collector. You have a Pierce. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Pierce oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Ground the collector and everything connected to it and take the output from the emitter. You have a Colpitts. Replace the inductor with a crystal and you have a Colpitts oscillator with the crystal operating in the anti-resonant mode. Insert a crystal between the emitter and the two capacitors connected to it and take the output from the emitter and you have a crystal oscillator operating at series (or overtone) resonance. Stick a varactor in there someplace and you have a VCO or VCXO. Clapp, Vacker, Franklin, Butler.... they are all just variations on an old theme. |
John Smith wrote:
I had dropped the all important word "transistors" in reference to "millions... billions". I never dreamed anyone could be mistaken that someone was claiming that many osc's in a computer, but you never can tell about the CB'ers--they might think so! How many oscillators are there if you include quantum oscillators? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Cecil:
Good point, it is going on in there... I think of 'em more as "quantum white noise generators." John "Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: I had dropped the all important word "transistors" in reference to "millions... billions". I never dreamed anyone could be mistaken that someone was claiming that many osc's in a computer, but you never can tell about the CB'ers--they might think so! How many oscillators are there if you include quantum oscillators? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:04:13 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote: Wes: I had dropped the all important word "transistors" in reference to "millions... billions". I never dreamed anyone could be mistaken that someone was claiming that many osc's in a computer, but you never can tell about the CB'ers--they might think so! Here is a mess of stuff on clocks, osc's which are generally used in digital equip these days (and this is stuff I am used to, a decade old or better technology, probably two decades!): A mess indeed. ... it should be apparent mr. pierce is not here in (at least most) of this material: Well, he's he http://www.mtron.com/pdf/eng_notes.pdf (See Figure 8 and associated text.) http://www.statek.com/new/pdf/tn30.pdf http://www.statek.com/new/pdf/tn31.pdf Simple logic gate oscillator: http://www.it.lth.se/digp/PDF_files/oscillators.pdf Thanks for making my point! "A better oscillator using inverter gates is given in Figure 2." (This is a Pierce.) Design of op amp oscillators: http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slyt164/slyt164.pdf Does not apply. Earlier I said, "All sine wave oscillators, LC or crystal, are basically the same circuit with the only variable being the location of the rf common point." These are not LC or crystal oscillators. The only place you might find one of these in a modern radio is in the sidetone oscillator. CMOS oscillator: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...ASCIISCHEM_004 Tinker Toy Clock divider: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...s/clockdiv.txt Not an oscillator. You too busy writing to actually look at your references? clock doubler: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...ckdoubler.html Op cit. square wave to sine converter: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...quare2sine.txt Op cit. pdf on digital oscillators: http://online.physics.uiuc.edu/cours..._TTL_Logic.pdf This is a college course? Computer project, using 7404 as a clock: https://www.cs.tcd.ie/Jeremy.Jones/3d2/3d2project.htm Clearly, you didn't read this one. |
Wes:
All of that exists on just a single chip these days, it is possible to have an osc chip which is usable from 1Mhz-to-1Ghz and puts out an acceptable sine... .... or so my son informs me. I took his word for it... the world has began to pass me by :( John "Wes Stewart" wrote in message ... On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:04:13 -0700, "John Smith" wrote: Wes: I had dropped the all important word "transistors" in reference to "millions... billions". I never dreamed anyone could be mistaken that someone was claiming that many osc's in a computer, but you never can tell about the CB'ers--they might think so! Here is a mess of stuff on clocks, osc's which are generally used in digital equip these days (and this is stuff I am used to, a decade old or better technology, probably two decades!): A mess indeed. ... it should be apparent mr. pierce is not here in (at least most) of this material: Well, he's he http://www.mtron.com/pdf/eng_notes.pdf (See Figure 8 and associated text.) http://www.statek.com/new/pdf/tn30.pdf http://www.statek.com/new/pdf/tn31.pdf Simple logic gate oscillator: http://www.it.lth.se/digp/PDF_files/oscillators.pdf Thanks for making my point! "A better oscillator using inverter gates is given in Figure 2." (This is a Pierce.) Design of op amp oscillators: http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slyt164/slyt164.pdf Does not apply. Earlier I said, "All sine wave oscillators, LC or crystal, are basically the same circuit with the only variable being the location of the rf common point." These are not LC or crystal oscillators. The only place you might find one of these in a modern radio is in the sidetone oscillator. CMOS oscillator: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...ASCIISCHEM_004 Tinker Toy Clock divider: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...s/clockdiv.txt Not an oscillator. You too busy writing to actually look at your references? clock doubler: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...ckdoubler.html Op cit. square wave to sine converter: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit...quare2sine.txt Op cit. pdf on digital oscillators: http://online.physics.uiuc.edu/cours..._TTL_Logic.pdf This is a college course? Computer project, using 7404 as a clock: https://www.cs.tcd.ie/Jeremy.Jones/3d2/3d2project.htm Clearly, you didn't read this one. |
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