Hi, I was looking to buy one of these. But running ground radials will be a
problem because the area is woods. I was looking to not using ground radials. I
do have a small running stream in the woods. Would a ground rod in the stream,
offer a good counterpoise that would eliminate the need for radials?

Vinnie S.

Vinnie S. wrote:
Hi, I was looking to buy one of these. But running ground radials will be a
problem because the area is woods. I was looking to not using ground radials. I
do have a small running stream in the woods. Would a ground rod in the stream,
offer a good counterpoise that would eliminate the need for radials?

A ground rod would result in rather high ground losses.
With woods all around, why not put up a multi-band dipole?
--
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:31:06 -0500, Cecil Moore wrote:

Vinnie S. wrote:
Hi, I was looking to buy one of these. But running ground radials will be a
problem because the area is woods. I was looking to not using ground radials. I
do have a small running stream in the woods. Would a ground rod in the stream,
offer a good counterpoise that would eliminate the need for radials?

A ground rod would result in rather high ground losses.
With woods all around, why not put up a multi-band dipole?

That was my first choice. I am not strong on antenna theory, so I and afraid to
build one. I was looking at a Alpha Delta DX-CC, but they have been on backorder
sonce March. I emailed them 3 weeks ago, and they said 7-10 days. I emailed them
again today, and they said 2 weeks. I liked that antenna because of the coax
feed. I was trying to sta away from the other dipole that use ladder line.

Vinnie S.

Vinnie S. wrote:

wrote:
A ground rod would result in rather high ground losses.
With woods all around, why not put up a multi-band dipole?

That was my first choice. I am not strong on antenna theory, so I and afraid to
build one. I was looking at a Alpha Delta DX-CC, but they have been on backorder
sonce March. I emailed them 3 weeks ago, and they said 7-10 days. I emailed them
again today, and they said 2 weeks. I liked that antenna because of the coax
feed. I was trying to sta away from the other dipole that use ladder line.

A 130 ft. dipole fed with 450 ohm ladder-line through a good
choke is hard to beat as an all-HF-band antenna and costs
about $25.
--
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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"Vinnie S." wrote in message
...
Hi, I was looking to buy one of these. But running ground radials will be
a
problem because the area is woods. I was looking to not using ground
radials. I
do have a small running stream in the woods. Would a ground rod in the
stream,
offer a good counterpoise that would eliminate the need for radials?

Vinnie S.




Hustler 5BTV popular here and used at about 4 1/2 inches off the ground
without radials.
May have to do with pretty good soil conductivity here in south central
Oklahoma. Our local Elmer tells us ground moisture hasn't much to do with
effective antennas. Quien Sabe?

Harold
KD5SAK

As an alternative to a trap vertical, you might consider a horizontal
trap dipole.

Probably cheaper than the Hustler and a pretty good performer if the
trees in the woods are high enough (at least 30 feet).

They come in different lengths based, in part, on the lowest design
frequency.

No radials or tuner required. Ultra simple.

73,

Chuck

Vinnie S. wrote:
Hi, I was looking to buy one of these. But running ground radials will be a
problem because the area is woods. I was looking to not using ground radials. I
do have a small running stream in the woods. Would a ground rod in the stream,
offer a good counterpoise that would eliminate the need for radials?

Vinnie S.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:07:27 -0400, Vinnie S.
wrote:

Hi, I was looking to buy one of these. But running ground radials will be a
problem because the area is woods. I was looking to not using ground radials. I
do have a small running stream in the woods. Would a ground rod in the stream,
offer a good counterpoise that would eliminate the need for radials?

My experience was with a 4BTV that was mounted about 15' above ground
with several sets of (nominally) resonant radials. This was better
than a dummy load, but not much.

I second the idea of one or more dipoles in the trees. Without a
decent ground -and- being in the trees, the vertical will be a very
big disappointment I'm afraid.

I don't see the appeal of one antenna that is capable of being matched
on every band, when the radiation is poor. The Alpha-Delta DX-CC
leaps to mind.

Pick two or three bands and get your feet wet. The higher bands are
poor these days anyway. I would put up a dipole for 20 and one for
80. These can be fed in parallel without interaction if place at
right angles to each other. You will have a daytime band and a
nighttime band and you will make contacts.

What do you have to lose or fear? You need the coax and balun anyway
and a few bucks worth of wire and you're in business.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:56:12 -0500, Cecil Moore wrote:

Vinnie S. wrote:

wrote:
A ground rod would result in rather high ground losses.
With woods all around, why not put up a multi-band dipole?

That was my first choice. I am not strong on antenna theory, so I and afraid to
build one. I was looking at a Alpha Delta DX-CC, but they have been on backorder
sonce March. I emailed them 3 weeks ago, and they said 7-10 days. I emailed them
again today, and they said 2 weeks. I liked that antenna because of the coax
feed. I was trying to sta away from the other dipole that use ladder line.

A 130 ft. dipole fed with 450 ohm ladder-line through a good
choke is hard to beat as an all-HF-band antenna and costs
about $25.


I have to do a inverted V config. I would be unable to run it horizontal. Can I
build one using simply a coax feed?

Vinnie S.

In article ,
Vinnie S. wrote:

A 130 ft. dipole fed with 450 ohm ladder-line through a good
choke is hard to beat as an all-HF-band antenna and costs
about $25.

I have to do a inverted V config. I would be unable to run it horizontal. Can I
build one using simply a coax feed?

A single dipole, fed with coax, configured as an inverted V, will
serve well on its resonant frequency and is also usable on its odd
harmonics. For example, a dipole cut for 40 meters (nominally 66 feet
in length for a horizontal, and perhaps 60 feet in length as an
inverted V) can usually be used on 15 meters as well since that's
close to the third harmonic.

Such an antenna will not serve well as an "all-band" antenna. Its
feedpoint impedance will be too high, or too reactive, on non-resonant
bands (e.g. on 20, the above dipole will have a very high feedpoint
impedance). You may be able to tune it on non-resonant bands using a
wide-range external transmatch, but the losses in the coax and
transmatch due to the high VSWR will likely be prohibitive.

Several solutions to this:

- Feed the dipole with ladder line or open-wire line, use a good choke
or balun and a good tuner/transmatch, and if necessary tune the
length of the wire so that the impedance seen at the transmatch is
acceptable.

- Build a multi-wire "fan" dipole, with one set of wires cut for each
band of interest. These are somewhat easier to trim (less
interaction between the wires) if the wires are fanned apart at a
broad angle, but it's quite possible to get them to work with each
wire simply hanging 6" below the next-longest one using simple
insulators of some sort. I use a three-wire fan dipole of this
sort, cut for 40/20/10, fed with coax, and it works quite respectably.

- Use a trap dipole (feeding with coax should be fine).

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:24:56 -0000, (Dave Platt)
wrote:

A single dipole, fed with coax, configured as an inverted V, will
serve well on its resonant frequency and is also usable on its odd
harmonics. For example, a dipole cut for 40 meters (nominally 66 feet
in length for a horizontal, and perhaps 60 feet in length as an
inverted V) can usually be used on 15 meters as well since that's
close to the third harmonic.

However, although it may "match" on 15-meters it will not work all
that great as the effective antenna height will be substantiality
lower. (Been there done that!).

Danny, K6MHE