Radio Shack and my education
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. com...
Rod Maupin wrote:
So, I'm pounding away on the calculator
and the other Extra finishes before anyone. He must have only taken ten
minutes, if that. He had to of memorized the answers.

Rod, I finished that trivial Extra exam in 10 minutes and
I can assure you, with a EE degree and MENSA membership,
I didn't memorize the answers.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil, I'm glad you passed your Extra exam without difficulty.

But I have to point out that there are many exam questions not
covered in EE (e.g., band breaks and OSCAR schemes); and
NONE of the exam questions are covered in MENSA. Thus
at least some memory work is needed.

I have three EE degrees (and could readily "qualify" for MENSA);
but I nevertheless studied quite diligently for the Extra exam (2001).
I was gratified to get 100%, but I readily admit taking more than
10 minutes.

73, Ed, W6LOL

Radio Shack and my education
 

Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Rod Maupin" wrote in message
...

It's interesting you mention that, Tom.

I just got my Extra last month. Now, I admit I am not an electronics
expert. I had to study really hard before I felt I could take the test.
What was funny was actually taking the test.

There were a total of six people testing. Myself and five others. Two
going for Technician, two going for General, and two going for Extra

(myself

and one other guy I didn't know). So, I'm pounding away on the calculator
and the other Extra finishes before anyone. He must have only taken ten
minutes, if that. He had to of memorized the answers. Actually there

were

a total of three people who had to have memorized the questions. No way
they could have finished so fast. Actually, I was the only one who

brought

a calculator, so that tells you something.

What was really interesting to me was that the other Extra had now passed
all the writtens, but had never passed the 5 WPM code test. So, no HF
priveleges until he does that.

I was licensed fifteen years ago and got up through Advanced and took the
code tests. But I moved out of state and never got around to taking the
Extra. Now, it's all changed and there are only three tests.

Anyway, interesting experience.

Rod KI7CQ



Instead of studying electronics you should have been studying the qusetion
and answer book. When the questions are the same as in the book , it is no
use learning anything for a test.

Where do you get that, Ralph? That license isn't the final goal. It's
the beginning. If all a person wants to do is pass some test, I suppose
they could memorize Q and A. - although I might postulate that
memorizing over 800 questions for the Extra might be harder than simply
learning the material.



I had the tech license for about 25 years. Just did not want to take time
for the code and did not care anything for the lowbands anyway. The job I
had gave me some free time on the night shift so I finally decided to take
in some code tapes and learn the code on company time. Went to Advanced and
about a year later the Extra. I never did get a chance to look at the Q&A
book. I did not need a calculator fo rthe tests. The answers are usualy
broad enough you can almost guess at them and a quick check with a pencil
and paper will do.

You had 25 years of studying for the exams!


I have not seen the new Extra exam but the old one was very easy compaired
to the old Advanced exam. By the way, in 1972 when I took the First Class
Phone license there were no calculators or Q&A books with the exect Q&As.

I keep hearing about the magical olde time Advanced Amateurs. I wish
they would get jobs at Radio Shack and straighten people out! ;^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Radio Shack and my education
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Rod Maupin wrote:

So, I'm pounding away on the calculator and the other Extra finishes
before anyone. He must have only taken ten minutes, if that. He had
to of memorized the answers.


Rod, I finished that trivial Extra exam in 10 minutes and
I can assure you, with a EE degree and MENSA membership,
I didn't memorize the answers.

Right! It is easy for some, and darn hard for others.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Radio Shack and my education
 

Instead of studying electronics you should have been studying the
qusetion
and answer book. When the questions are the same as in the book , it is
no
use learning anything for a test.

Where do you get that, Ralph? That license isn't the final goal. It's
the beginning. If all a person wants to do is pass some test, I suppose
they could memorize Q and A. - although I might postulate that
memorizing over 800 questions for the Extra might be harder than simply
learning the material.



Getting the license is the first goal. You have to memorize the rules to
answer many of the questions. Might as well memorize the other parts too.
You get your license and you can start to learn about ham radio.
Sometimes the questions can be deceiving and what may be a correct answer
may not be the "best" answer.

As far as getting good answers about most anything at RAdio Shack or many
other stores , what do you expect from someone making the wages they pay ?
You do not get a salesman and electronics engineer for those wages. Try
going into any store, say Wal-Mart and pick out an area and ask some
specific questions about the products and see what they have to say.
Chances are you will get the same dumb look and maybe a dumb answer.

Radio Shack and my education
 

Old Ed wrote:
But I have to point out that there are many exam questions not
covered in EE (e.g., band breaks and OSCAR schemes);

Dang, Ed, I just developed the OSCAR schemes from first
principles. ;-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Radio Shack and my education
 

Ralph Mowery wrote:
. . .
As far as getting good answers about most anything at RAdio Shack or many
other stores , what do you expect from someone making the wages they pay ?
You do not get a salesman and electronics engineer for those wages. Try
going into any store, say Wal-Mart and pick out an area and ask some
specific questions about the products and see what they have to say.
Chances are you will get the same dumb look and maybe a dumb answer.

One of the reasons this is the only choice we have is that in times
past, there were stores which did pay the employees enough to get people
who understood the products. People would go in, get their questions
answered, then go to the Wal-Marts and Radio Shacks to buy the item
because it was cheaper there. We've gotten what we created and what we
collectively deserve.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Radio Shack and my education
 

Roy Lewallen wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:

. . .
As far as getting good answers about most anything at RAdio Shack or many
other stores , what do you expect from someone making the wages they
pay ?
You do not get a salesman and electronics engineer for those wages. Try
going into any store, say Wal-Mart and pick out an area and ask some
specific questions about the products and see what they have to say.
Chances are you will get the same dumb look and maybe a dumb answer.


One of the reasons this is the only choice we have is that in times
past, there were stores which did pay the employees enough to get people
who understood the products. People would go in, get their questions
answered, then go to the Wal-Marts and Radio Shacks to buy the item
because it was cheaper there. We've gotten what we created and what we
collectively deserve.


Thanks for the reminder, Roy. But that has been a long while.

Phil w7ox

Radio Shack and my education
 

Ralph Mowery wrote:
Instead of studying electronics you should have been studying the

qusetion

and answer book. When the questions are the same as in the book , it is

no

use learning anything for a test.

Where do you get that, Ralph? That license isn't the final goal. It's
the beginning. If all a person wants to do is pass some test, I suppose
they could memorize Q and A. - although I might postulate that
memorizing over 800 questions for the Extra might be harder than simply
learning the material.




Getting the license is the first goal. You have to memorize the rules to
answer many of the questions. Might as well memorize the other parts too.
You get your license and you can start to learn about ham radio.

Hmmm, I suspect that someone who wanted to learn about ham radio would
start that process during the preparations for the test. Those who would
want to memorize entire question pools probably won't be too interested
in actually learning anything both before or afterward the memorization.
As well as not too bright.

Sometimes the questions can be deceiving and what may be a correct answer
may not be the "best" answer.

Sure enough. I once took a test in which I was required to answer "the
temperature at which solder melts. A through D were all possible answers
in this case, because they didn't specify which ratio the solder was. I
wrote "E, all of the above" Turns out they "meant" 60/40 solder. So I
got the "wrong answer" even though I was a lot more correct than they were.

But that is life sometimes.

As far as getting good answers about most anything at RAdio Shack or many
other stores , what do you expect from someone making the wages they pay ?

I expect a correct answer, or "I'm sorry, but I'm don't really know".

You do not get a salesman and electronics engineer for those wages.

One doesn't need to be an electronics engineer to have an intelligent
outlook.


Try
going into any store, say Wal-Mart and pick out an area and ask some
specific questions about the products and see what they have to say.
Chances are you will get the same dumb look and maybe a dumb answer.

Set your expectations low enough, and you'll seldom be disappointed! 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Radio Shack and my education
 

Mike Coslo wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:

Instead of studying electronics you should have been studying the


qusetion

and answer book. When the questions are the same as in the book ,
it is


no

use learning anything for a test.


Where do you get that, Ralph? That license isn't the final goal. It's
the beginning. If all a person wants to do is pass some test, I suppose
they could memorize Q and A. - although I might postulate that
memorizing over 800 questions for the Extra might be harder than simply
learning the material.




Getting the license is the first goal. You have to memorize the rules to
answer many of the questions. Might as well memorize the other parts
too.
You get your license and you can start to learn about ham radio.


Hmmm, I suspect that someone who wanted to learn about ham radio
would start that process during the preparations for the test. Those who
would want to memorize entire question pools probably won't be too
interested in actually learning anything both before or afterward the
memorization. As well as not too bright.


I've seen it done both ways. And I've seen "rote learners" blossom in
their knowledge and breadth of the hobby after getting licensed that
way. Also the opposite.

Since it is a hobby, what works for the individual seems to be all that
is important.

Phil w7ox

Radio Shack and my education
 

Roy Lewallen wrote:


One of the reasons this is the only choice we have is that in times
past, there were stores which did pay the employees enough to get people
who understood the products. People would go in, get their questions
answered, then go to the Wal-Marts and Radio Shacks to buy the item
because it was cheaper there. We've gotten what we created and what we
collectively deserve.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Support your local hardware store, support your local ham store....

I have paid a slight price penalty plus state and local tax to buy from
my local ham store for almost 20 years. I can also sometimes get break
when I have a rig that needs fixing 3 days before a contest or trip to
FL and the service wait sign says "3 weeks".

Buy local if you want good service from people you know and who know you.

Tom
K0TAR

Radio Shack and my education
 

Phil Wheeler wrote:
I've seen it done both ways. And I've seen "rote learners" blossom in
their knowledge and breadth of the hobby after getting licensed that
way. Also the opposite.

At 14 years of age in 1952, I had little choice except to
mostly memorize the 90 or so general class questions
and answers in The License Manual. Being an amateur radio
operator is what motivated me through a EE degree and a long
career in electrical engineering.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Radio Shack and my education
 

Edmund H. Ramm wrote:
Full ACK. This el-cheapo mentality hurts economy.

Some TV or cable station is advertising a program called:
"Is Walmart good or bad for the country?"
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Radio Shack and my education
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Phil Wheeler wrote:

I've seen it done both ways. And I've seen "rote learners" blossom in
their knowledge and breadth of the hobby after getting licensed that
way. Also the opposite.


At 14 years of age in 1952, I had little choice except to
mostly memorize the 90 or so general class questions
and answers in The License Manual. Being an amateur radio
operator is what motivated me through a EE degree and a long
career in electrical engineering.


Similar to my history. General Class at 16 in 1953. That motivated me
to get (eventually) three degrees in EE. Extra Class came 40+ years
later when I finally wrenched my code speed up to a reliable 20 WPM ..
not that it would matter now :)

73, Phil w7ox

Radio Shack and my education
 

Edmund H. Ramm wrote:
In Roy Lewallen writes:


[...]
One of the reasons this is the only choice we have is that in times
past, there were stores which did pay the employees enough to get people
who understood the products. People would go in, get their questions
answered, then go to the Wal-Marts and Radio Shacks to buy the item
because it was cheaper there. We've gotten what we created and what we
collectively deserve.


Full ACK. This el-cheapo mentality hurts economy.


Yeah .. like buying rigs made in some other country :)

Radio Shack and my education
 

Edmund H. Ramm wrote:
In Roy Lewallen writes:


[...]
One of the reasons this is the only choice we have is that in times
past, there were stores which did pay the employees enough to get people
who understood the products. People would go in, get their questions
answered, then go to the Wal-Marts and Radio Shacks to buy the item
because it was cheaper there. We've gotten what we created and what we
collectively deserve.


Full ACK. This el-cheapo mentality hurts economy.

Look at your average PC. The cutthroat competition has cause the
typical PC to evolve into a real POS. On the other hand, my G5 Mac is a
piece of art by comparison. And I replace my Macs a lot less than my
PCs. Not to mention I don't cut myself on the sharp edges on the inside
that would destroy the profit margin if they were removed! 8^)

I use both, and I'm not flaming the PC's - just stating fact.

If we want cheap, that is exactly what we'll get.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Radio Shack and my education
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Edmund H. Ramm wrote:

Full ACK. This el-cheapo mentality hurts economy.


Some TV or cable station is advertising a program called:
"Is Walmart good or bad for the country?"


Isn't that the study that found out that when a Wally World moved into
a town, that the needed social services increased?


- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Radio Shack and my education
 

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:49:58 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:

Isn't that the study that found out that when a Wally World moved into
a town, that the needed social services increased?

Hi Mike,

If not, it's from "Wal*Mart - the high cost of low prices," a film
(really a DVD) from Robert Greenwald who also did "OutFoxed."

I've been showing the Wal*Mart DVD to audiences for two weeks now.

The social cost to America from Wal*Mart's business practices is on
the order of $1.5 Billion. When you look at if from the Chinese
perspective, they are getting gang-banged too. The presentation
showed how Wal*Mart paid workers 6¢ apiece for an item selling at $12.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Radio Shack and my education
 

Whut is wrong with memorizing the test questions? I did that all
through school, from pre-kindergarten to the present. Thats why I know
so much stuff..........well, I sorta know a bunch of stuff. Buttt, I R
Retired now and I don't have to know anything anymore. Now, aint that
some ****.
Ole' Butch said that..


Tom Ring wrote:
Owen Duffy wrote:

On 23 Nov 2005 20:29:37 GMT, Allodoxaphobia
wrote:



Too much ruckus has been focused on the 'No Code License' issue.
The ruckus should, instead, be focused on the 'No Clue License'.



I never mentioned the no-code licence... we got over that over a year
ago down under.

I suggest it is not a matter of the no-clue licence, but the no-clue
licensee, who could be licensed in any grade.

Owen
(Spelling correct for country of origin!)
--


Correct. I have personally met more extras without a clue than
generals, and that's not percentage-wise. Your personal mileage may
vary, but a lot of extras seem to be really code oriented or contest
oriented, and did nothing but memorize the technical questions answers
(US) to pass.

I do not maean to disparage anyone who got their license by legitimate
means.

Wasn't there a scandal around that sort of thing a while ago. The name
West comes to mind, but I truthfully don't remember anything more than
that.

tom
K0TAR

Radio Shack and my education
 

Well, I guess he summed it up quite succinctly.

tom
K0TAR

Butch Magee wrote:

Whut is wrong with memorizing the test questions? I did that all
through school, from pre-kindergarten to the present. Thats why I know
so much stuff..........well, I sorta know a bunch of stuff. Buttt, I R
Retired now and I don't have to know anything anymore. Now, aint that
some ****.
Ole' Butch said that..


Tom Ring wrote:

Owen Duffy wrote:

On 23 Nov 2005 20:29:37 GMT, Allodoxaphobia
wrote:



Too much ruckus has been focused on the 'No Code License' issue.
The ruckus should, instead, be focused on the 'No Clue License'.




I never mentioned the no-code licence... we got over that over a year
ago down under.

I suggest it is not a matter of the no-clue licence, but the no-clue
licensee, who could be licensed in any grade.

Owen
(Spelling correct for country of origin!)
--



Correct. I have personally met more extras without a clue than
generals, and that's not percentage-wise. Your personal mileage may
vary, but a lot of extras seem to be really code oriented or contest
oriented, and did nothing but memorize the technical questions answers
(US) to pass.

I do not maean to disparage anyone who got their license by legitimate
means.

Wasn't there a scandal around that sort of thing a while ago. The
name West comes to mind, but I truthfully don't remember anything more
than that.

tom
K0TAR

Radio Shack and my education
 

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:01:57 -0600, Tom Ring wrote:

And from what I've seen, nothing has changed, Bose is still selling
millions of dollars of crap.

tom
K0TAR

Man ain't that the truth.
I have never understood this Bose thing, the speakers are some of the
worst ones on the market and they are flying out the doors all day long.

Its all marketing BS like the Wizbang cables to hook things up.

--
Korbin Dallas
The name was changed to protect the guilty.

Radio Shack and my education
 

Korbin Dallas wrote:
I have never understood this Bose thing, the speakers are some of the
worst ones on the market and they are flying out the doors all day long.
Its all marketing BS like the Wizbang cables to hook things up.

Sharper Image does the same thing. Their room air filter has got
to be close to the worst-case design I have ever seen. The guy
in their commercial who says, "I have tried every air purifier
on the market and ..." is an UNETHICAL LYING SOB!!!! 'Course, most
TV commercials are made by unethical liars. I doubt that many
of the alleged cancer sufferers actually have cancer. They look
more like professional models to me.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Radio Shack and my education
 

Come on Cecil, next you will be telling me there is no Santa Clause...

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. net...
Korbin Dallas wrote:
I have never understood this Bose thing, the speakers are some of the
worst ones on the market and they are flying out the doors all day long.
Its all marketing BS like the Wizbang cables to hook things up.

Sharper Image does the same thing. Their room air filter has got
to be close to the worst-case design I have ever seen. The guy
in their commercial who says, "I have tried every air purifier
on the market and ..." is an UNETHICAL LYING SOB!!!! 'Course, most
TV commercials are made by unethical liars. I doubt that many
of the alleged cancer sufferers actually have cancer. They look
more like professional models to me.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Radio Shack and my education
 

Fred W4JLE wrote:
Come on Cecil, next you will be telling me there is no Santa Clause...

It's hard to argue that there's no Santa Claus when one can
observe a real live Santa Claus in every mall. What's seems
harder to argue is the existence of a God whom nobody alive
has ever sensed with any of their allegedly God-given senses.
:-) (The Devil made me say that.)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Radio Shack and my education
 

He has been sensed by the heart when a child is delivered from an illness, a
mother gives birth to a newborn child, and in the smile of someone you have
given a kindness.

Just remember, he will always believe in you...

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. net...
Fred W4JLE wrote:
Come on Cecil, next you will be telling me there is no Santa Clause...

It's hard to argue that there's no Santa Claus when one can
observe a real live Santa Claus in every mall. What's seems
harder to argue is the existence of a God whom nobody alive
has ever sensed with any of their allegedly God-given senses.
:-) (The Devil made me say that.)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Radio Shack and my education
 

Hi Roy,

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
One of the reasons this is the only choice we have is that in times past,
there were stores which did pay the employees enough to get people who
understood the products. People would go in, get their questions answered,
then go to the Wal-Marts and Radio Shacks to buy the item because it was
cheaper there.

What, have you been talking to the guys at HRO again at how people will come
in and get technical advice for an hour and then go home and order on-line
again or something? :-)

Seriously, your point is well taken, although I'd suggest that all the product
reviews you get from, e.g., Amazon.Com can actually be more useful than the
information you'd get from a salesperson. There's no inherent bias (to want
to sell you something), and you get to see comments from people with a wide
range of background. (It's always kinda amusing to see people trash, say,
some classical technical book when the real problem is that they're just not
well enough educated yet to appreciate what they're reading!)

Radio Shack and my education
 

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
The social cost to America from Wal*Mart's business practices is on
the order of $1.5 Billion.

I have a suspicion that, depending on whether you're pro- or anti-Wal*Mart,
that number can easily more around by an order of magnitude...

Presumably that $1.5B translates into higher taxes, right? The average person
would rather pay $1 at WallyWorld and $0.25 in taxes rather than $1.10 at a
different store... it's just human nature. And even if you convince the
average person that their taxes are higher due to WallyWorld being around,
most of them would just say to cut tax rates and hence reduce spending on
whatever their favorite 'target' is -- the military for more liberally minded
individuals, social programs for conservatives, etc.

When you look at if from the Chinese
perspective, they are getting gang-banged too. The presentation
showed how Wal*Mart paid workers 6¢ apiece for an item selling at $12.

That strikes me as a red herring. For many products, there's very little
relationship between the selling price and any one constituent cost involved
in producing it, such as labor. (How much were the labor costs of the
salesguy who sold you a one karat diamond ring for, say, $10,000, after all?)

Radio Shack and my education
 

"Korbin Dallas" wrote in message
...
I have never understood this Bose thing, the speakers are some of the
worst ones on the market and they are flying out the doors all day long.

1) Many people like the sound of Bose. Regardless of how distorted that sound
might be, the fact that people like it is most important. (And purposely
distorting sound is very much the premise of many effects boxes used to
produce music, after all!)
2) Bose does a good job of marketing their product as something that appeals
to the 'hip' crowd, just like Apple has done with the iPod.

Its all marketing BS like the Wizbang cables to hook things up.

Yep, but given that something like a stereo system is 100% a 'want' and not a
'need,' anything goes! I.e., no need for the government to regulate it, let
people spend their excess cash on whatever they want...