Owen Duffy wrote:
Cecil, are you saying that a resonant dipole must have a low
impedance, and that modes where the feedpoint impedance is purely
resistive but high are not "resonant"? That seems to be what your
formulae above and explanation suggests.

Yes Owen, that's what I am saying. When I was at Texas A&M in
the dark ages, we called the feedpoint impedance of a one-
wavelength dipole an "anti-resonant" impedance. It is explained
at: http://dx.doi.org/10.1036/1097-8542.041800
"Antiresonance - The condition for which the impedance of a
given electric ... system is very high, approaching infinity."

Semantics strikes again. To distinguish the left-most low resistance
point on an SWR circle from the right-most high resistance point, we
mid-20th-century Aggie EEs called the leftmost point, "resonant", and
called the rightmost point, "anti-resonant".

If you and I were ever to agree on definitions, I have no doubt
that we would also agree on concepts.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:52:11 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote:


Semantics strikes again. To distinguish the left-most low resistance
point on an SWR circle from the right-most high resistance point, we
mid-20th-century Aggie EEs called the leftmost point, "resonant", and
called the rightmost point, "anti-resonant".

If you and I were ever to agree on definitions, I have no doubt
that we would also agree on concepts.

I am sure we are talking the meaning of the terms (semantics) rather
than the underlying concept.

Narrowing the term resonance to only apply to the resonance that
exhibits a series resonance equivalent behaviour seems to me to
unnecessarily limit the meaning of resonance (though I note it is used
in optics to some extent).

I think of the high impedance of a dipole with zero reactance at some
frequencies also as a resonance, and I think you did too when you said
recently to Amos "jX is only zero at resonance." If that is to mean
that jX is "only ever" zero at resonance, then if jX is zero, you have
resonance, whether R is high or low.

On that basis, one would have to say that a full wave centre fed
dipole exhibits (at the feed point) resonance similar to a lossy
parallel tuned circuit and should be considered a resonant radiator.

Owen
--

Owen Duffy wrote:
On that basis, one would have to say that a full wave centre fed
dipole exhibits (at the feed point) resonance similar to a lossy
parallel tuned circuit and should be considered a resonant radiator.

I know that is what your gut feeling wishes were true. But a
large portion of the RF engineering community considers "anti-
resonance" to be the exact opposite of "resonance" and indeed
it is the exact opposite on a Smith Chart, being the opposite
side of the SWR circle. Semantics strikes again. I'm sure that
our Russian counterparts have a completely different word for
exactly the same effects.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Egad. Calling it antiresonance is asking for (communications) trouble,
since not eveyone uses the same terms. Just call it "half-wave
resonance" and "full-wave resonance". I don't think I've EVER heard
anyone call a parallel-tuned circuit "anti-resonant." I do regularly
hear people distinguish between series and parallel resonance, however.
I'm not likely to soon adopt "antiresonance" for either condition, as
it sounds way too much like something opposing resonance.

Cheers,
Tom

K7ITM wrote:
I'm not likely to soon adopt "antiresonance" for either condition, as
it sounds way too much like something opposing resonance.

In a transmission line with reflections, antiresonance is
indeed plus or minus 90 degrees from resonance and "never
the twain shall meet". Resonance and antiresonance cannot,
by definition, occur at the same point, i.e. if a point
is antiresonant, it cannot, by definition, be resonant.

Quoting "Transmission Lines and Networks", by Walter C.
Johnson, PhD. (one of the heavyweight gurus of the mid-20th-
century) page 156: "When the lossless line is an odd number
of quarter wavelengths long, the sending-end impedance is
theoretically infinite (inversion of the receiving-end
impedance). The actual impedance, considering losses, is a
very large resistance, and the line is said to be ANTIRESONANT."
(Capitals substituted for italics for obvious reasons)

So your argument is with Walter C. Johnson, PhD, ex-chairman of
the Department of Electrical Engineering at Princeton University,
not with me.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil Moore wrote:
In a transmission line with reflections, antiresonance is
indeed plus or minus 90 degrees from resonance and "never
the twain shall meet". Resonance and antiresonance cannot,
by definition, occur at the same point, i.e. if a point
is antiresonant, it cannot, by definition, be resonant.

One more thought: In a transmission line with reflections,
a voltage node is located at a point of resonance. A voltage
anti-node is located at a point of anti-resonance. Makes
perfect sense to me.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Geez, Cecil, I don't have an argument with either of you. I'm just
telling you that the people I work with qualify resonance with
different terms than you do. You're welcome to use whatever terms you
want.

Cheers,
Tom

K7ITM wrote:
Geez, Cecil, I don't have an argument with either of you.

The Devil made me do it. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Rom, KC7ITM wrote:
"I don`t think I`ve EVER heard anyone call a parallel-tuned circuit
antiresonant."

There are many synonyms I am unfamiliar with also, but I`ve heard of
antiresonance and used the word. My "Dictionary of Electronics" says:
"Antiresonance - A type of resonance in which a system offers maximum
impedance at its resonant frequency."

An antiresonant circuit is defined:
"Antiresonant circuit - A parallel-resonant circuit offering maximum
impedance to the series passage of the resonant frequenccy."

A parallel-tuned resonant circuit fits the dictionary definition. It`s a
synonym for antiresonant circuit.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Richard Harrison wrote:
An antiresonant circuit is defined:
"Antiresonant circuit - A parallel-resonant circuit offering maximum
impedance to the series passage of the resonant frequenccy."

The traps in a trapped dipole are antiresonant.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp