Current through coils
 

Reg Edwards wrote:

I've a feeling there is some confusion here between phase delay in
degrees, and delay in time (nano-seconds).

The former changes with frequency. The latter does not.

You should all make yourselves perfectly clear.

EZNEC takes a time-frozen snapshot of the system and reports the
phases throughout the system referenced to the source.

So, given a 1/2WL thin-wire dipole, what is the difference between
the delay in nanoseconds and the phase delay in degrees. Aren't
they convertable to each other?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Current through coils
 

You and I agree on most fundamental matters.

I'll have to take your word for that. It isn't always apparent by
what
you say in your postings.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

=====================================

Roy, you have a habit of creating arguments where none exist.

And communications via the Internet are handicapped by the absence of
body language. But we still have smileys ;o)
----
Reg.

Current through coils
 

The capacitance of a coil is to the second "wire", that is, to the
"rest of the universe".

I forget the name of the current which flows through that capacitance.
But undoubtably, it does flow.

Apart from end-effects (as with an antenna wire) it is uniformly
distributed along a body (as with a transmission line) and is
sufficiently accurately calculable.

The whole capacitance has an equivalent capacitance which can be
connected between the ends of a coil to make a resonant circuit with
the coil isolated in space. There is a resonant frequency.

But no use can be made of the resonant frequency because as soon
anything is connected to either one or both ends of the coil the
capcitance to the rest of the world changes and the resonant frequency
shifts downwards. I could go on!

But Roy, you know all this and I mention it here for the benefit of
novices.
----
Reg.

Current through coils
 

Gene Fuller wrote:
I thought we already agreed that there is no phase shift in the real
environment, namely, a nearly pure standing wave environment.

There's no phase shift in the standing wave current in 45
degrees of straight wire. Doesn't that tell you something?
You said yourself that the standing wave current phase
doesn't contain any phase information.

Here's what you guys need to do to convince me that you are
right.

1. Develop a coil acceptable to EZNEC that resonates an 8
foot whip on 4 MHz over mininec ground. Send me a copy of
the EZNEC file.

2. Put the same coil in the traveling wave environment as
I have done at: http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/test316y.GIF
and report the phase shift through the coil. Send me a
copy of the EZNEC file.

If you are so right and I am so wrong, that shouldn't be
too difficult for half a dozen gurus (including the
developer of EZNEC).
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Current through coils
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. com...
Reg Edwards wrote:

I've a feeling there is some confusion here between phase delay in
degrees, and delay in time (nano-seconds).

The former changes with frequency. The latter does not.

You should all make yourselves perfectly clear.

EZNEC takes a time-frozen snapshot of the system and reports the
phases throughout the system referenced to the source.

So, given a 1/2WL thin-wire dipole, what is the difference between
the delay in nanoseconds and the phase delay in degrees. Aren't
they convertable to each other?
--
=========================================

Of course they are, you block-head. But one is measured in degrees of
phase-shift and the other in nano-seconds of time. So to prevent
confusion you must say which one you are waffling about.
----
Reg

Current through coils
 

Cec,

Having clarified what *I* am waffling about, are *you* still saying
that EZNEC reports propagation delay as being dependent on frequency.

Is it phase delay or time delay along the coil which is dependent on
frequency?
----
Reg.

Current through coils
 

Reg Edwards wrote:
Cec,

Having clarified what *I* am waffling about, are *you* still saying
that EZNEC reports propagation delay as being dependent on frequency.

Is it phase delay or time delay along the coil which is dependent on
frequency?
----
Reg.


If the question is how is EZNEC reporting it's results the person to
ask the question of and the only person who can give a definitive answer
is the author of the program. What process did he use in writing the
program. A computer program, any program, can only give the answer in
terms it is programed to use, using the mathematical formula that is
coded into the program. Even R2D2 could only respond according to it's
programming.
Let's quit attempting to split hairs and look to the original program
for the answer.

Dave N

Current through coils
 

Let's quit attempting to split hairs and look to the original
program
for the answer.

Dave N
======================================

I am not quibbling about what EZNEC reports but what Cecil has *said*
it reports. On the other hand, Cecil may be right. But I hope he is
wrong!
----
Reg.

Current through coils
 

Reg Edwards wrote:
Cec,

Having clarified what *I* am waffling about, are *you* still saying
that EZNEC reports propagation delay as being dependent on frequency.
. . .

EZNEC doesn't report time or propagation delay. If it's needed, it must
be calculated from the reported phase angles.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Current through coils
 

Reg Edwards wrote:
Is it phase delay or time delay along the coil which is dependent on
frequency?

Seems to be both. John P. has already done the math in
another posting. Here's what he said:

John P. said:
Here is that list repeated in units of time, instead of degrees:

MHz ns delay
5.5 7.1
5.89 7.4
6 7.5
7 8.5
8 10.2
9 14.2
10 24.7
11 35.7
12 37.7
13 36.8
13.7 37.3
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp