"interesting" antenna design
 

I was listening to 40M the other night and a reasonably clear SSB signal
came from a guy in Pennsylvania using 100 W to a rain gutter.

It was apparently raining at the time in PA.

All the mathematical modeling and tweaking discussed in this group ...
I thought the successful use of a rain gutter deserved some praise here.

John
AB8WH

"interesting" antenna design
 

jawod wrote:
I was listening to 40M the other night and a reasonably clear SSB signal
came from a guy in Pennsylvania using 100 W to a rain gutter.

It was apparently raining at the time in PA.

All the mathematical modeling and tweaking discussed in this group ...
I thought the successful use of a rain gutter deserved some praise here.

John
AB8WH

It does deserve some praise, however this guy was not the first. At
some point in my 45 years I have made contacts using a rain gutter, the
metal tube in the center of my brick chimney, the metal fire escape
outside my dorm room and on and on. If it was metal, and I needed an
antenna, I tried it. I don't remember bed springs or a wet noodle, but
that may be next.
Gary N4AST

"interesting" antenna design
 

jawod wrote:
I was listening to 40M the other night and a reasonably clear SSB signal
came from a guy in Pennsylvania using 100 W to a rain gutter.

It was apparently raining at the time in PA.

All the mathematical modeling and tweaking discussed in this group ...
I thought the successful use of a rain gutter deserved some praise here.

Why? There's nothing unusual or exceptional about it.

I used one successfully on 80 meters for a number of years from an
apartment in Denver. And when I was a kid my main 20 meter antenna was
an approximately half wavelength of #28 enamled wire slammed in my
window and running to a clothesline pole in the back yard. Insulator was
a plastic curtain ring. Worked lots of stateside stations from Alaska
with a homebrew 6L6 rig -- probably about 10 watts output.

I've worked JA on 40 meter CW with a base loaded CB whip from a VW
squareback and about 8 watts, and Alaska from Denver (good signal report
on SSB) with 50 watts using a dipole strung around a basement. I worked
New Hebrides on 40 meters with a bent attic dipole 16 feet above ground,
(#28 hookup wire stapled to the eave) and running 1.5 watts. Solid copy,
and I got a QSL. A rain gutter probably would have done better.

Anyone who's been a ham for a few years probably has a handful of
similar stories. What conclusions should we draw from them?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

"interesting" antenna design
 

Ionospherically reflected radio waves really do "want" to propagate, in
spite of compromised antennas.

About 40 years ago while running an old Knight Kit T-150 on 80 m cw, I had a
few 100 mw of spur on 5.525 mhz. I got a QSL card from the FCC telling me
that the Canadian's were not too happy with me, and could I please fix
things. Rotten antenna, low power output, and I still got a QSL card.

....hasan, N0AN

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...

Anyone who's been a ham for a few years probably has a handful of similar
stories. What conclusions should we draw from them?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

"interesting" antenna design
 

That 44dB down from S9+20 is still well above the noise floor :-)

I've made contacts with all sorts of random pieces of conductor too.
First stealth apartment antenna was a copper tape stick-on fed against
the balcony rail.

I much prefer 100 feet of magnet wire in the clear.

To that I very much prefer what my parents let me put up in the yard
when I was in high school and college: 28 foot tube tower with an A3S,
full wave rotatable loop for 17, 2el yagi for 12, 1/4 wave groundplane
(full size) for 40, sloping dipole for 30 and an 80m inverted vee.

So far I've not used an actual rain gutter or downspout, but I did
model one downspout into my shortened vertical dipole design on 40...
it's not an *intentional* part of the antenna :-)

I think it's great to get on the air with whatever you can. My goal is
to optimize my ability to radiate a signal given the limitations of my
site, and modeling and tweaking is a big part of that. I'm trying to
DX from an apartment complex though, so a handful of dB here and there
really matter.

I didn't quite get the invisible 5 element 20m monobander up to work
VU4 tho ;-)

73,
Dan
N3OX
www.n3ox.net

"interesting" antenna design
 

"Roy Lewallen" wrote
Anyone who's been a ham for a few years probably has a handful of
similar stories. What conclusions should we draw from them?
========================================

None!

"interesting" antenna design
 

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:13:46 -0700, Roy Lewallen
wrote:

jawod wrote:
I was listening to 40M the other night and a reasonably clear SSB signal
came from a guy in Pennsylvania using 100 W to a rain gutter.

It was apparently raining at the time in PA.

All the mathematical modeling and tweaking discussed in this group ...
I thought the successful use of a rain gutter deserved some praise here.

Why? There's nothing unusual or exceptional about it.

Indeed.

Whilst it might have, and is probably still often done, it is unlikely
to comply with limits on Maximum Permitted Exposure to EMR. It has a
host of other disadvantages (EMC incompatibility, TVI/RFI, unreliable
performance to name a few).

The configuration is known as a CIA Special down here, being a covert
antenna. I suppose it is commonly done in places where covenants
prohibit external antennas.

....

Anyone who's been a ham for a few years probably has a handful of
similar stories. What conclusions should we draw from them?

Anything and everything "works" in the minds of amateurs. In the minds
of some, a few QSOs is adequate proof that something "works", though I
know you think differently Roy.

Owen
--

"interesting" antenna design
 

I've run the max permitted exposure calculators on some of my more
egregiously located antennas, and you'd be surprised what it takes to
exceed the limits if you're running 100W SSB. I've got to be in
compliance for people on adjacent balconies, and it's pretty easy on
HF.

According to http://n5xu.ae.utexas.edu/rfsafety/

Using 20% duty cycle for SSB to calculate average power of 20W into a
2.2dBi gain antenna (a pretty good rain gutter) at 7MHz, your neighbor
has to be a whopping 1.46 feet from the antenna. You only have to be
0.86 feet away.

It is a good point that the stealth crowd should be checking these
things out, though, as at least the apartment crew are using their
antennas in densely packed quarters.

I have discovered from said site that I should not run 100W 6m RTTY
into my Moxon lest the balcony next door become a more-than-allowed
uncontrolled exposure zone. On the other hand, maybe that's a handy
use for 25dB front to back ;-)

Dan
N3OX

"interesting" antenna design
 

Owen,

Sorry I'm being a bit USA-centric. Maybe MPE limits in VK are more
strict?

3.68 milliwatts per square centimeter here at 7MHz.

I just noticed the "whilst" :-)

-Dan

"interesting" antenna design
 

On 27 Apr 2006 15:11:46 -0700, "
wrote:

Owen,

Sorry I'm being a bit USA-centric. Maybe MPE limits in VK are more
strict?

Dan, the greater issue here is the interpretation of of whether the
radiator is accessible to members of the general public. If the kids
next door come into the yard to retrieve their ball, it may be
considered that it is accessible to the general public. Occupants of
the premises (eg the rest of the family and visitors) may be
considered to be the general public.

Owen


3.68 milliwatts per square centimeter here at 7MHz.

I just noticed the "whilst" :-)

-Dan
--

"interesting" antenna design
 

Another item that also works especially on 6m, throw an old bed spring on
the roof!
73's

"Owen Duffy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:13:46 -0700, Roy Lewallen
wrote:

jawod wrote:
I was listening to 40M the other night and a reasonably clear SSB signal
came from a guy in Pennsylvania using 100 W to a rain gutter.

It was apparently raining at the time in PA.

All the mathematical modeling and tweaking discussed in this group ...
I thought the successful use of a rain gutter deserved some praise here.

Why? There's nothing unusual or exceptional about it.

Indeed.

Whilst it might have, and is probably still often done, it is unlikely
to comply with limits on Maximum Permitted Exposure to EMR. It has a
host of other disadvantages (EMC incompatibility, TVI/RFI, unreliable
performance to name a few).

The configuration is known as a CIA Special down here, being a covert
antenna. I suppose it is commonly done in places where covenants
prohibit external antennas.

...

Anyone who's been a ham for a few years probably has a handful of
similar stories. What conclusions should we draw from them?

Anything and everything "works" in the minds of amateurs. In the minds
of some, a few QSOs is adequate proof that something "works", though I
know you think differently Roy.

Owen
--

"interesting" antenna design
 

Howard W3CQH wrote:
Another item that also works especially on 6m, throw an old bed spring on
the roof!
73's

"Owen Duffy" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:13:46 -0700, Roy Lewallen
wrote:


jawod wrote:

I was listening to 40M the other night and a reasonably clear SSB signal
came from a guy in Pennsylvania using 100 W to a rain gutter.

It was apparently raining at the time in PA.

All the mathematical modeling and tweaking discussed in this group ...
I thought the successful use of a rain gutter deserved some praise here.

Why? There's nothing unusual or exceptional about it.

Indeed.

Whilst it might have, and is probably still often done, it is unlikely
to comply with limits on Maximum Permitted Exposure to EMR. It has a
host of other disadvantages (EMC incompatibility, TVI/RFI, unreliable
performance to name a few).

The configuration is known as a CIA Special down here, being a covert
antenna. I suppose it is commonly done in places where covenants
prohibit external antennas.

...

Anyone who's been a ham for a few years probably has a handful of
similar stories. What conclusions should we draw from them?

Anything and everything "works" in the minds of amateurs. In the minds
of some, a few QSOs is adequate proof that something "works", though I
know you think differently Roy.

Owen
--



I just think the great stories of rain gutters, chimneys, fire escapes,
etc. reflect the spirit of individual experimentation that, to me, is
the heart of ham radio. Maybe not the brain, but the heart.

John
AB8WH

"interesting" antenna design
 

jawod wrote:
I just think the great stories of rain gutters, chimneys, fire escapes,
etc. reflect the spirit of individual experimentation that, to me, is
the heart of ham radio. Maybe not the brain, but the heart.

You must love Kurt N. Sterba's tales of using bedsprings,
ladders, and garbage cans for antennas.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

"interesting" antenna design
 

And, also, makes great Stacked helical's for 2304! Jim NN7K

jawod wrote:
Howard W3CQH wrote:

Another item that also works especially on 6m, throw an old bed spring
on the roof!
73's

"interesting" antenna design
 

jawod wrote:
Howard W3CQH wrote:

Another item that also works especially on 6m, throw an old bed spring
on the roof!
73's

"Owen Duffy" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:13:46 -0700, Roy Lewallen
wrote:


jawod wrote:

I was listening to 40M the other night and a reasonably clear SSB
signal
came from a guy in Pennsylvania using 100 W to a rain gutter.

It was apparently raining at the time in PA.

All the mathematical modeling and tweaking discussed in this group ...
I thought the successful use of a rain gutter deserved some praise
here.


Why? There's nothing unusual or exceptional about it.


Indeed.

Whilst it might have, and is probably still often done, it is unlikely
to comply with limits on Maximum Permitted Exposure to EMR. It has a
host of other disadvantages (EMC incompatibility, TVI/RFI, unreliable
performance to name a few).

The configuration is known as a CIA Special down here, being a covert
antenna. I suppose it is commonly done in places where covenants
prohibit external antennas.

...

Anyone who's been a ham for a few years probably has a handful of
similar stories. What conclusions should we draw from them?


Anything and everything "works" in the minds of amateurs. In the minds
of some, a few QSOs is adequate proof that something "works", though I
know you think differently Roy.

Owen
--




I just think the great stories of rain gutters, chimneys, fire escapes,
etc. reflect the spirit of individual experimentation that, to me, is
the heart of ham radio. Maybe not the brain, but the heart.

I agree. I don't have any reason to want to build one of those
antennas, but they are every bit the equal of getting wrapped around the
axle with amateur radio minutiae!

And certainly a lot funnier! 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

"interesting" antenna design
 

"jawod" wrote in message ...

snip

I just think the great stories of rain gutters, chimneys, fire escapes,
etc. reflect the spirit of individual experimentation that, to me, is
the heart of ham radio. Maybe not the brain, but the heart.

John
AB8WH

Me too. Oh, how much fun we have right after saying, "I wonder what
happens if ... "

Yeah, sometimes it's a burnt finger or a blown fuse, but even then we
usually benefit from it.

"interesting" antenna design
 

I just think the great stories of rain gutters, chimneys, fire escapes,
etc. reflect the spirit of individual experimentation that, to me, is
the heart of ham radio. Maybe not the brain, but the heart.

You must love Kurt N. Sterba's tales of using bedsprings,
ladders, and garbage cans for antennas.

And don't forget the (QST?) pictures of "car antennas" several years
ago: two cars sitting almost bumper-to-bumper and fed with coax as a
very-low dipole at the almost-touching bumpers. Truly a "car antenna"
(but not very mobile)!

--
--Myron A. Calhoun.
Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge
PhD EE (retired). "Barbershop" tenor. CDL(PTXS). W0PBV. (785) 539-4448
NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol)

"interesting" antenna design
 

wrote in message ...
I just think the great stories of rain gutters, chimneys, fire escapes,
etc. reflect the spirit of individual experimentation that, to me, is
the heart of ham radio. Maybe not the brain, but the heart.

You must love Kurt N. Sterba's tales of using bedsprings,
ladders, and garbage cans for antennas.

And don't forget the (QST?) pictures of "car antennas" several years
ago: two cars sitting almost bumper-to-bumper and fed with coax as a
very-low dipole at the almost-touching bumpers. Truly a "car antenna"
(but not very mobile)!

--Myron A. Calhoun.


Now THAT one I haven't seen.

HOWEVER, I DO have a picture (Dad's) of two hams and their cars side by
side. W9SH and W9IT

Of course they had call plates! What'd you expect! Ya think QST'd print it
????

73, Steve, K9DCI