100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

"Sonny Hood" wrote in message
...
I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS


Hi Sonny

Would you consider using two lengths of 50 ohm coax, side by side?

Jerry

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Sonny Hood wrote:

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS

Sonny, the feedline cannot and does not have any influence on the
resonance of an antenna. Resonance is determined by the physical
dimensions of the antenna itself.

Tell us about the antenna. How did you determine a 100 ohm input impedance?

72 ohm twin lead is available at selected suppliers. But, I am not aware
of anyone making 100 ohm twin lead. that's why I asked about the 100 ohm
value.

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Sonny Hood wrote:

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS

Use side-by-side runs of 50 ohm coax to achieve a balanced Z0
of 100 ohms. Tie the braids together at both ends.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Dave wrote:
Sonny, the feedline cannot and does not have any influence on the
resonance of an antenna. Resonance is determined by the physical
dimensions of the antenna itself.

Feedline length has every influence on the resonance of
an antenna system if the SWR is not 1:1.

Why is a G5RV resonant on 3.7 MHz when a 102 foot dipole
is resonant on 4.6 MHz?

Truth is that the feedline can be used to resonate the
antenna system. I resonate my 130 ft. dipole on any HF
band by varying the length of the feedline. Check it out
at: http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/notuner.htm
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

On Sun, 14 May 2006 16:34:44 -0400, Sonny Hood wrote:

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?

To answer your specific question, ZIP cord is close to 100 ohms Zo.
However, it is relatively lossy (~3.5dB/100' at 10MHz).

K8ZOA measured ZIP cord characteristics and reported them here a year
of three back, Google for the info.

There were commercial low impedance twin lines for RF use, but they
are now obsolete (for good reason).

Owen
--

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Sonny Hood wrote:

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS

Use side-by-side runs of 50 ohm coax to achieve a balanced Z0
of 100 ohms. Tie the braids together at both ends.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Sounds like he may be trying to match a Quad or a Loop. If I am not
mistaken, the usual way to do this is with a 75 ohm Q section.
Side-by-side runs of 50 ohm coax with the braid tied together will
yield 25 ohms because they are in parallel. Not 100 ohms. Or do I
need to dive back into the antenna book?
Gary N4AST

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

better get out the snorkle... if you tie the braid and the center conductor
together you get a 25 ohm line, i use that all the time for my stack
matching boxes.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Cecil Moore wrote:
Sonny Hood wrote:

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS

Use side-by-side runs of 50 ohm coax to achieve a balanced Z0
of 100 ohms. Tie the braids together at both ends.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Sounds like he may be trying to match a Quad or a Loop. If I am not
mistaken, the usual way to do this is with a 75 ohm Q section.
Side-by-side runs of 50 ohm coax with the braid tied together will
yield 25 ohms because they are in parallel. Not 100 ohms. Or do I
need to dive back into the antenna book?
Gary N4AST

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Cecil Moore wrote:

Dave wrote:

Sonny, the feedline cannot and does not have any influence on the
resonance of an antenna. Resonance is determined by the physical
dimensions of the antenna itself.


Feedline length has every influence on the resonance of
an antenna system if the SWR is not 1:1.


C'mon Cecil, you know better!

The antenna is resonant 100% by itself.

100 feet of wire is resonant within a few KHz of 4.68 MHz. Period.
120 feet of wire is resonant at ~ 3.9 MHz. Period.
65 feet of wire is resonant at ~ 7.2 MHz. Period.
33 feet of wire is resonant at ~ 14.2 MHz. Period.

You are tuning a non resonant antenna to resonance with your stubs.

You changed the scope of the discussion with the exact wording of your
response. You used "antenna system". I used "antenna".

Why do you persist in comparing alligators and kittens?

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Dave wrote:
The antenna is resonant 100% by itself.

Most knowledgeable people know that the resonant frequency
of the antenna system can be changed by the length of the
transmission line series matching section. Why don't you
know that? Here is the SWR of my 130 foot dipole antenna
on 40m achieved by varying the length of the 450 ohm
transmission line.

http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/swr13040.gif

Please look at that graph and then tell us that the feedline
cannot tune the antenna system to resonance.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Dave wrote:
better get out the snorkle... if you tie the braid and the center conductor
together you get a 25 ohm line, i use that all the time for my stack
matching boxes.

Nobody said anything about tying the braid and center conductor
together. If the side by side run of 50 ohm coax is used as a
parallel feedline, the braids are tied together and the Z0
is 100 ohms when the center conductors are connected across
the load.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

"Sonny Hood" wrote in message
...
I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?

K4WYS

As I remember, common lamp "zip" cord (AWG 18 or 16) functions at about that
Z (I'll have to check)

gb

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Cecil Moore wrote in news:x0N9g.86749$dW3.29542
@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

Dave wrote:
Sonny, the feedline cannot and does not have any influence on the
resonance of an antenna. Resonance is determined by the physical
dimensions of the antenna itself.

Feedline length has every influence on the resonance of
an antenna system if the SWR is not 1:1.

Why is a G5RV resonant on 3.7 MHz when a 102 foot dipole
is resonant on 4.6 MHz?

Truth is that the feedline can be used to resonate the
antenna system. I resonate my 130 ft. dipole on any HF
band by varying the length of the feedline. Check it out
at: http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/notuner.htm

All true, but there isn't much difference between a G5RV and a 102 foot
dipole fed with 450 ohm line to a good balanced tuner.

Back years ago I had a very effective vee dipole antenna for 80m that was
composed of two identical wires from the top of my third story shack
window insulated and tied off to trees and shrubbery. I fed it with
home-made 600 ohm line, about six feet long and tapped it directly off
the tank coil of my amplifier. It was LOUD all over the Pacific, South
America, audible in Africa, but for some reason, nothing from Europe!

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

On Sun, 14 May 2006 16:34:44 -0400, Sonny Hood wrote:

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS


Is this a single band or multiband antenna? If I recall correctly,
you can use a different impedance feedline if it is a multiple of a
half wave. At the half wave points, the impedance is the same as the
beginning of the feed.

Cecil or others here will correct the length error if I am incorrect.
But I learned about a year ago that the impedance can be corrected by
the multi-fraction length feedline of a different impedance.

Maybe this is the principal of Cecil's feedline matching system.

73 for now


--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

"Sonny Hood" wrote in message
...
I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS

Does it have be twinlead? Certain LAN cable is made for 92 ohm Zo, which is
might close. Only downside I can imagine is the small size of the center
conductor: might limit XMIT power.

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

ANTENNA DESCRIPTION: I recently installed a horizontal loop antenna
for 75 meters. The antenna wire is #12 multi-stranded tinned copper
with 600 volt TEW insulation. The antenna is fed within one foot of
the NW corner, via 25 ft. of 450 ohm twin lead to a 1:1 balun then via
air dielectric RG/8 (21.1 ft.) then to a AT-1500CV. The formula 1005/f
was used to figure the length and to cut the wire. However, due to
the low height about ground (24-26 ft.); the ground capacitance
changed the antenna resonance considerably. The target f (frequency)
was 3.9 MHz with 257.7 ft. of wire. After installation in a rectangle
configuration at 25+/- feet, the resonate frequency was 3.452 MHz.
With a tuner matching the antenna to the "rf" generator (transceiver),
the NVIS signal met the 100-200 mile range that was estimated.
The antenna was tuned - cut (shortened) to increase the
resonate frequency into the 75 meter phone band. After some
estimating of desired length at the low elevation and cutting and
pruning a resonate frequency of 3.790 MHz was obtained, that has a
VSWR of 1.6 to 1. The resonance was found with an MFJ-269 without the
tuner, 1.6:1 @ 3790 KHz. The tuner matches the load to 50 ohms for the
PW-1. The area of the loop decreased and the perimeter length is 229.5
linear feet. Again with the use of a tuner throughout the phone band
produced a NVIS signal range that was very good. K4WYS

On Sun, 14 May 2006 16:34:44 -0400, Sonny Hood wrote:
I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Dave Oldridge wrote:
... there isn't much difference between a G5RV and a 102 foot
dipole fed with 450 ohm line to a good balanced tuner.

Not much difference in performance. Lots of difference in the
impedances seen by the tuner. For instance, built-in autotuners
will usually match a G5RV somewhere on 80m, 40m, & 20m. There
are usually certain troublesome lengths of 450 ohm line used with
a 102 foot dipole that will prohibit a match by built-in autotuners.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Buck wrote:
Is this a single band or multiband antenna? If I recall correctly,
you can use a different impedance feedline if it is a multiple of a
half wave. At the half wave points, the impedance is the same as the
beginning of the feed.

i.e. at the antenna. You're right, neglecting losses, the antenna
impedance is repeated every half wavelength. Neglecting losses,
that 100 ohm antenna feedpoint impedance will be repeated at half-
wavelength intervals for *any* feedline Z0, including 50 ohm coax.

Cecil or others here will correct the length error if I am incorrect.
But I learned about a year ago that the impedance can be corrected by
the multi-fraction length feedline of a different impedance.

Maybe this is the principal of Cecil's feedline matching system.

The principal of the feedline matching system that I use is that
every SWR circle crosses the purely low resistive point at a
current maximum point. For dipoles that are 1/2WL on the lowest
frequency of operation, the current maximum point is the ideal
point at which to feed the antenna system. Adjust the length of
the feedline until the current maximum point is at the transmitter
and you will usually not need a tuner at all.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Sonny Hood wrote:

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?

Let's take a look at how the 450 ohm feedline "messed up the
match". The SWR on the 450 ohm feedline will be 450/100 = 4.5:1.
A feedline length equal to a multiple of 1/4WLs will transform
the 100 ohms to ~2000 ohms or a 50 ohm SWR of 40:1 which is
probably out of the matching range for built-in autotuners, for
instance. You can change the impedance seen at the tuner back
to 100 ohms by adding or subtracting 1/4WL of 450 ohm line which
will make it a multiple of 1/2WL.

As someone else said, one of the most common ways to match a
100 ohm antenna is to use 1/4WL of 75 ohm coax and then 50
ohm coax the rest of the way. Instead of "messing up the match",
it fixes up the match. The SWR on 75 ohm coax would be 100/75 =
1.33:1. The impedance at the end of the 1/4WL matching section
would be 75/1.33 = ~56 ohms, a good match to 50 ohm coax.

If you are wanting to use the antenna for multi-band operation,
change the length of the 450 ohm line until the match is not
"messed up".
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

you are great cecil, you cut out the original post to make it look like i
had nothing to do with the original statement... if you will remember he was
asking if he would get 25 ohms if he connected the braids together without
the center conductors... i simply say that if you connect both the braid and
center conductors you get a 25 ohm line... the implication being that if you
don't connect the center conductors you don't get a 25 ohm line.

thanks for keeping the fight thread going so well, now that you are riled up
i guess you can branch out into some other threads and bog them down for the
rest of the week.

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. com...
Dave wrote:
better get out the snorkle... if you tie the braid and the center
conductor together you get a 25 ohm line, i use that all the time for my
stack matching boxes.

Nobody said anything about tying the braid and center conductor
together. If the side by side run of 50 ohm coax is used as a
parallel feedline, the braids are tied together and the Z0
is 100 ohms when the center conductors are connected across
the load.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

great! glad the good old measure and trim method worked adequately... now
if you are really smart you will stop reading more replies to this thread
and get on the air and make use of that nice new antenna!

"Sonny Hood" wrote in message
...
ANTENNA DESCRIPTION: I recently installed a horizontal loop antenna
for 75 meters. The antenna wire is #12 multi-stranded tinned copper
with 600 volt TEW insulation. The antenna is fed within one foot of
the NW corner, via 25 ft. of 450 ohm twin lead to a 1:1 balun then via
air dielectric RG/8 (21.1 ft.) then to a AT-1500CV. The formula 1005/f
was used to figure the length and to cut the wire. However, due to
the low height about ground (24-26 ft.); the ground capacitance
changed the antenna resonance considerably. The target f (frequency)
was 3.9 MHz with 257.7 ft. of wire. After installation in a rectangle
configuration at 25+/- feet, the resonate frequency was 3.452 MHz.
With a tuner matching the antenna to the "rf" generator (transceiver),
the NVIS signal met the 100-200 mile range that was estimated.
The antenna was tuned - cut (shortened) to increase the
resonate frequency into the 75 meter phone band. After some
estimating of desired length at the low elevation and cutting and
pruning a resonate frequency of 3.790 MHz was obtained, that has a
VSWR of 1.6 to 1. The resonance was found with an MFJ-269 without the
tuner, 1.6:1 @ 3790 KHz. The tuner matches the load to 50 ohms for the
PW-1. The area of the loop decreased and the perimeter length is 229.5
linear feet. Again with the use of a tuner throughout the phone band
produced a NVIS signal range that was very good. K4WYS

On Sun, 14 May 2006 16:34:44 -0400, Sonny Hood wrote:
I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

"g. beat " @spam protected wrote in message
...
"Sonny Hood" wrote in message
...
I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?

K4WYS

As I remember, common lamp "zip" cord (AWG 18 or 16) functions at about
that Z (I'll have to check)

gb
I once measured some cheap zip cord at 7 MHz. got something like 85 Ohms.

Tam/WB2TT

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

"Sonny Hood" wrote in message
...
ANTENNA DESCRIPTION: I recently installed a horizontal loop antenna
for 75 meters. The antenna wire is #12 multi-stranded tinned copper
with ..............

Sort of like what I have. Full size 75m loop fed at one corner. I connected
a 1:1 current balun directly at the antenna , feeding a 1/4 wave section of
RG11 Foam coax. All 50 Ohms downstream from there. SWR at resonance is about
1.2:1. No tuners.

Tam/WB2TT

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

On Mon, 15 May 2006 08:26:39 -0400, Sonny Hood wrote:

ANTENNA DESCRIPTION: I recently installed a horizontal loop antenna
for 75 meters. The antenna wire is #12 multi-stranded tinned copper
with 600 volt TEW insulation. The antenna is fed within one foot of
the NW corner, via 25 ft. of 450 ohm twin lead to a 1:1 balun then via
air dielectric RG/8 (21.1 ft.) then to a AT-1500CV. The formula 1005/f
was used to figure the length and to cut the wire. However, due to
the low height about ground (24-26 ft.); the ground capacitance
changed the antenna resonance considerably. The target f (frequency)
was 3.9 MHz with 257.7 ft. of wire. After installation in a rectangle
configuration at 25+/- feet, the resonate frequency was 3.452 MHz.

You would expect the feedpoint impedance of a full wave loop (cut
using your formula) to be around 90 ohms at resonance.

You have then connected 25' of 450 ohm line. Lets assume this is
Wireman 551 line, the input impedance to this line section at
(assuming 3.7MHz) should be around 141+j282 (and line loss would be
~0.1dB).

You then have an unspecified length of "air dielectric RG/8" (new to
me) which will transform the impedance further.

You seem to intend to then use an ATU to transform this impedance to a
satisfactory load for the transmitter.

Where did you make the measurements with the MFJ269? If it was not at
the antenna feedpoint, did you really expect resonance at the
measurement point to coincide with loop resonance, and is resonance at
either point important to efficient operation of the entire system?

Owen

With a tuner matching the antenna to the "rf" generator (transceiver),
the NVIS signal met the 100-200 mile range that was estimated.
The antenna was tuned - cut (shortened) to increase the
resonate frequency into the 75 meter phone band. After some
estimating of desired length at the low elevation and cutting and
pruning a resonate frequency of 3.790 MHz was obtained, that has a
VSWR of 1.6 to 1. The resonance was found with an MFJ-269 without the
tuner, 1.6:1 @ 3790 KHz. The tuner matches the load to 50 ohms for the
PW-1. The area of the loop decreased and the perimeter length is 229.5
linear feet. Again with the use of a tuner throughout the phone band
produced a NVIS signal range that was very good. K4WYS

On Sun, 14 May 2006 16:34:44 -0400, Sonny Hood wrote:
I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS
--

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Cecil Moore wrote in news:dY%9g.76844$H71.68934
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Dave Oldridge wrote:
... there isn't much difference between a G5RV and a 102 foot
dipole fed with 450 ohm line to a good balanced tuner.

Not much difference in performance. Lots of difference in the
impedances seen by the tuner. For instance, built-in autotuners
will usually match a G5RV somewhere on 80m, 40m, & 20m. There
are usually certain troublesome lengths of 450 ohm line used with
a 102 foot dipole that will prohibit a match by built-in autotuners.

True, I'm somewhat spoiled since I've always used fairly wide-range tuners.
Even my Intellituner will match a 64-1 load.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Now, however did I know this thread would go on 'n on, 'n on 'n on......



Cecil Moore wrote:
Sonny Hood wrote:

I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?


Let's take a look at how the 450 ohm feedline "messed up the
match". The SWR on the 450 ohm feedline will be 450/100 = 4.5:1.
A feedline length equal to a multiple of 1/4WLs will transform
the 100 ohms to ~2000 ohms or a 50 ohm SWR of 40:1 which is
probably out of the matching range for built-in autotuners, for
instance. You can change the impedance seen at the tuner back
to 100 ohms by adding or subtracting 1/4WL of 450 ohm line which
will make it a multiple of 1/2WL.

As someone else said, one of the most common ways to match a
100 ohm antenna is to use 1/4WL of 75 ohm coax and then 50
ohm coax the rest of the way. Instead of "messing up the match",
it fixes up the match. The SWR on 75 ohm coax would be 100/75 =
1.33:1. The impedance at the end of the 1/4WL matching section
would be 75/1.33 = ~56 ohms, a good match to 50 ohm coax.

If you are wanting to use the antenna for multi-band operation,
change the length of the 450 ohm line until the match is not
"messed up".

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

On Mon, 15 May 2006 14:26:11 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Buck wrote:
Is this a single band or multiband antenna? If I recall correctly,
you can use a different impedance feedline if it is a multiple of a
half wave. At the half wave points, the impedance is the same as the
beginning of the feed.

i.e. at the antenna. You're right, neglecting losses, the antenna
impedance is repeated every half wavelength. Neglecting losses,
that 100 ohm antenna feedpoint impedance will be repeated at half-
wavelength intervals for *any* feedline Z0, including 50 ohm coax.

So far, so good. If the antenna is fed with 50 ohm coax, there will
be great losses, however, if I am correct, there will be negligible
losses with 450, or even less with 600 ohm twin-lead. A 2:1 balun at
the end of this 600 ohm wire should net a low-loss, but good match for
his antenna?


Cecil or others here will correct the length error if I am incorrect.
But I learned about a year ago that the impedance can be corrected by
the multi-fraction length feedline of a different impedance.

Maybe this is the principal of Cecil's feedline matching system.

The principal of the feedline matching system that I use is that
every SWR circle crosses the purely low resistive point at a
current maximum point. For dipoles that are 1/2WL on the lowest
frequency of operation, the current maximum point is the ideal
point at which to feed the antenna system. Adjust the length of
the feedline until the current maximum point is at the transmitter
and you will usually not need a tuner at all.

OK, I think that is a more technical explanations of what I said, so
we are in agreement. But for the sake of clarification, let me ask
this...

I have a yagi with about 25 ohms at the antenna. I connect 600 ohm
twin-lead and run it 1 1/2 wave lengths to my radio. This, I assume,
gives me the highest current at the end of the twin-lead. So I
connect it directly to the radio with a PL-259 and get an acceptable
load for the transmitter with low-loss in the feedline?


--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Dave wrote:
if you will remember he was
asking if he would get 25 ohms if he connected the braids together without
the center conductors...

Here's the original posting:
************************************************** ************************
I have an antenna that needs 100 ohm twin lead to match the impedance
of the feed point. The 450 ohm lead has messed up the match and
screwed up the resonance, does anone know of such an animal?
K4WYS
************************************************** ************************

It bears no resemblence to your assertion above.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Buck wrote:

W5DXP wrote:
You're right, neglecting losses, the antenna
impedance is repeated every half wavelength. Neglecting losses,
that 100 ohm antenna feedpoint impedance will be repeated at half-
wavelength intervals for *any* feedline Z0, including 50 ohm coax.

So far, so good. If the antenna is fed with 50 ohm coax, there will
be great losses, ...

A 100 ohm antenna causes an SWR of 2:1 on 50 ohm coax. Lots
of hams don't even bother with a tuner when the SWR is 2:1. The
additional losses in 50 ohm coax due to an SWR of 2:1 are pretty
much negligible on 80m for reasonable lengths of feedline.

I have a yagi with about 25 ohms at the antenna. I connect 600 ohm
twin-lead and run it 1 1/2 wave lengths to my radio. This, I assume,
gives me the highest current at the end of the twin-lead. So I
connect it directly to the radio with a PL-259 and get an acceptable
load for the transmitter with low-loss in the feedline?

The SWR on the 600 ohm line will be 600/25 = 24:1

The SWR on 50 ohm coax will be 50/25 = 2:1

For a 25 ohm single band antenna, I would be inclined to go with
the coax.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

The SWR on the 600 ohm line will be 600/25 = 24:1

The SWR on 50 ohm coax will be 50/25 = 2:1

For a 25 ohm single band antenna, I would be inclined to go with
the coax.

Ok, I learned something, but I would be inclined to go with the 1/2
wave of 75 ohm and then the 50 ohm ;)


--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Buck wrote:

The SWR on the 600 ohm line will be 600/25 = 24:1

The SWR on 50 ohm coax will be 50/25 = 2:1

For a 25 ohm single band antenna, I would be inclined to go with
the coax.

Ok, I learned something, but I would be inclined to go with the 1/2
wave of 75 ohm and then the 50 ohm ;)

"1/2 wave of 75 ohm" would make matters worse for a 25 ohm
antenna since the SWR would be higher than for 50 ohms.
What you need is 1/4WL of 35 ohm coax like RG83.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

On Tue, 16 May 2006 13:24:37 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Buck wrote:

The SWR on the 600 ohm line will be 600/25 = 24:1

The SWR on 50 ohm coax will be 50/25 = 2:1

For a 25 ohm single band antenna, I would be inclined to go with
the coax.

Ok, I learned something, but I would be inclined to go with the 1/2
wave of 75 ohm and then the 50 ohm ;)

"1/2 wave of 75 ohm" would make matters worse for a 25 ohm
antenna since the SWR would be higher than for 50 ohms.
What you need is 1/4WL of 35 ohm coax like RG83.

OOPS, I went back to the original problem with 100 ohm



--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Buck wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Buck wrote:
Ok, I learned something, but I would be inclined to go with the 1/2
wave of 75 ohm and then the 50 ohm ;)

"1/2 wave of 75 ohm" would make matters worse for a 25 ohm
antenna since the SWR would be higher than for 50 ohms.
What you need is 1/4WL of 35 ohm coax like RG83.

OOPS, I went back to the original problem with 100 ohm

Then you should use 1/4 wave of 75 ohm, not 1/2 wave.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

On Tue, 16 May 2006 14:30:52 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Buck wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Buck wrote:
Ok, I learned something, but I would be inclined to go with the 1/2
wave of 75 ohm and then the 50 ohm ;)

"1/2 wave of 75 ohm" would make matters worse for a 25 ohm
antenna since the SWR would be higher than for 50 ohms.
What you need is 1/4WL of 35 ohm coax like RG83.

OOPS, I went back to the original problem with 100 ohm

Then you should use 1/4 wave of 75 ohm, not 1/2 wave.
ok, a 100 ohm load fed with 50 ohm coax is a 2:1 swr. Fed with 75 ohm
coax, it is 1.33:1 ??

If the 75 ohm is fed with 50 ohm coax 1/4 wave down the 75 ohm coax,
it will be a close match?

Why did the impedance change to 52 ohms?
--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Buck wrote:

ok, a 100 ohm load fed with 50 ohm coax is a 2:1 swr. Fed with 75 ohm
coax, it is 1.33:1 ??

If the 75 ohm is fed with 50 ohm coax 1/4 wave down the 75 ohm coax,
it will be a close match?

Why did the impedance change to 52 ohms?

Because of the energy bouncing back and forth between the 100 ohm load
(that mismatches the 75 ohm, so causes a reflection) and the 50 ohm
feed (that mismatches the 75 ohm section, so causes a reflection).

If the 1/4 wave section has an impedance that is the geometric mean of
the impedance on each end, it creates a perfect matching resonator.

So the perfect 1/4 wave matching section between 50 and 100 ohms would
have an impedance of the square root of (50 times 100) or 70.7 ohms.
75 is pretty close.

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

Buck wrote:
ok, a 100 ohm load fed with 50 ohm coax is a 2:1 swr. Fed with 75 ohm
coax, it is 1.33:1 ??

Yes, and 75/1.33 = 56.25 ohms. For a perfect match to 50
ohms, one would need Z0 = SQRT(100*50) = 70.7 ohms.

If the 75 ohm is fed with 50 ohm coax 1/4 wave down the 75 ohm coax,
it will be a close match?

The SWR on the 50 ohm coax will be 56.25/50 = 1.125:1

Why did the impedance change to 52 ohms?

It didn't. It changed to 56.25 ohms. The load is 100 ohms
and the Z0 is 75 ohms so the SWR is 1.33:1 at the current
minimum/voltage maximum point. To find the impedance 1/4WL
away, divide Z0 by SWR, 75/1.33 = 56.25 ohms.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

100 Ohm Twin Lead
 

On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:13:57 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:


It didn't. It changed to 56.25 ohms. The load is 100 ohms
and the Z0 is 75 ohms so the SWR is 1.33:1 at the current
minimum/voltage maximum point. To find the impedance 1/4WL
away, divide Z0 by SWR, 75/1.33 = 56.25 ohms.

Thanks, I understand how that works now.


--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW