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Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Anyone ever get around the VHF FM vertical yagi feedline routing
problem by voltage feeding the bottom of the driven element with a stub like a J-pole? A quick EZNEC run seems to indicate that it's not a bad idea. So it seems like it might work OK... but I wonder if anyone has actually done it. Would you expect a coaxial stub to work better than a parallel wire stub in terms of preserving the pattern of the yagi? Any commercial products doing this? 73 Dan N3OX www.n3ox.net |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote: Anyone ever get around the VHF FM vertical yagi feedline routing problem by voltage feeding the bottom of the driven element with a stub like a J-pole? A quick EZNEC run seems to indicate that it's not a bad idea. So it seems like it might work OK... but I wonder if anyone has actually done it. Would you expect a coaxial stub to work better than a parallel wire stub in terms of preserving the pattern of the yagi? Any commercial products doing this? 73 Dan N3OX www.n3ox.net I guess I'm missing it, but what problem is there running the feedline to the normal center fed yagi? No matter if against a mast, or mounted on a mast with the center of the boom attached to the mast, I don't see a problem. I do it all the time. No matter what polarization, I tape the coax to the mast, and then tape it to the boom to the feedpoint. I'd much rather run the yagi in the normal manner. Trying to voltage feed one sounds like a common mode nightmare , unless drastic precautions were taken. And I probably don't have to mention how radiation from a feedline can skew a antenna pattern real nicely... :( MK |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
I guess I'm missing it, but what problem is there running the feedline to the normal center fed yagi? No matter if against a mast, or mounted on a mast with the center of the boom attached to the mast, I don't see a problem. I do it all the time. No matter what polarization, I tape the coax to the mast, and then tape it to the boom to the feedpoint. I'd much rather run the yagi in the normal manner. This is a problem that is particular to vertically polarized yagis that are mounted with a pole going between the elements. The pole has to come up parallel to the elements to the boom. Some people overcome this by using non-conductive pole, BUT what do you do with the feeder, if you tape it to the pole you might just as well have used a metal pole!!! However, as I said in my previous post, my simulations seem to show that with careful positioning the effects can to quite small 73 Jeff |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
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Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
I forgot to say you could offset the coax with a crossarm out from an
insulated mast, not offset the Yagi. With a metal mast you would offset the Yagi. |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Jeff wrote:
This is a problem that is particular to vertically polarized yagis that are mounted with a pole going between the elements. The pole has to come up parallel to the elements to the boom. Some people overcome this by using non-conductive pole, BUT what do you do with the feeder, if you tape it to the pole you might just as well have used a metal pole!!! However, as I said in my previous post, my simulations seem to show that with careful positioning the effects can to quite small This problem has been investigated very carefully by moonbouncers who want to use selectable horizontal/vertical polarization. The best solution from the electrical viewpoint is to mount the yagi on a fibreglass mast and route the feedlines out the rear, but this is not mechanically practical for very large steerable arrays. Simulations have found that metal masts in the plane of the elements can be used, and feedlines can follow the same route, if - BUT ONLY IF - the yagi is suitable and it's done at the right place along the boom. Under these conditions, the penalty (in terms of forward gain) can be less than 1dB. However, only certain yagi designs will be suitable, because the support point must also be close to the mechanical centre of gravity. These electrical and mechanical requirements may conflict, so I strongly agree with Jeff that the effect of the mast and feedline will always need to be simulated and computer-optimized. There is no way to guess at this one. Coming back to the original question about a J-pole feed for a vertically polarized yagi, this technique was used in the 1950s-60s by the British company J-Beam for TV antennas around 50MHz. The driven elements that I remember were not actually J-shaped, but used a coaxial decoupling sleeve that also served as a mast. The bottom end of the sleeve was typically clamped to a chimney. It worked... but in those days, nobody really understood how well or poorly it worked. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
I havent but Mr Cebik talks about it on his website;
http://www.cebik.com/vhf/jp4.html Cheers Bob VK2YQA wrote: Anyone ever get around the VHF FM vertical yagi feedline routing problem by voltage feeding the bottom of the driven element with a stub like a J-pole? A quick EZNEC run seems to indicate that it's not a bad idea. |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Bob Bob wrote:
I havent but Mr Cebik talks about it on his website; http://www.cebik.com/vhf/jp4.html Cheers Bob VK2YQA wrote: Anyone ever get around the VHF FM vertical yagi feedline routing problem by voltage feeding the bottom of the driven element with a stub like a J-pole? A quick EZNEC run seems to indicate that it's not a bad idea. The problem with many models is people just stick a source at the feedpoint and assume it tells them something about how the antenna works in the real world. A model has a PERFECT source that is like using a perfect balun and a transparent feedline. I can build a very feedline critical antenna with horrible balance issues, one that will never work in the real world, and make it behave quite well in the model. I would never use a J-pole feed on a Yagi, except perhaps in a model. 73 Tom |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Thanks for the responses.
Tom, I didn't know that the feedline decoupling issues with J-poles were so bad. I'd be interested in more information about why it's such an issue. Would a sleeve stub work better than an open wire stub? It's certainly stupid to make the feedline MORE of an issue. I like the sleeve/skirt decoupled dipole idea. I hadn't thought about routing the feedline out on a sidearm. I was thinking of doing that with the antenna, but with a large yagi it would be a problem. Putting the feedline out a few feet and then dropping it down to a lower point on the mast could certainly work. As far as putting the feedline in the plane of the elements, understood on the modeling and placement issues. If one were to do this, would it help to have ferrite beads all along the coax from the feedpoint to some distance down the mast? Of course good feedline decoupling is important for any directional array, but I imagine that a wire with a string of ferrite beads on it is pretty much invisible to RF... is this right? Maybe a long bead balun dropping away in between elements would be a good way to go with no sidearms? Thanks for the responses; I'd be interested in further ones. 73 Dan |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
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Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
1.) You have a half-wave end-fed antenna. There has to be as much common mode current leaving the end of that point and flowing down the feedline as there is flowing out onto the antenna at that point. There isn't any exception to this rule. It certainly isn't that simple in a distributed network. The currents into the end of a half-wave section are certainly unbalanced at X and Y but the current amplitudes are pretty low. 5 watts into 5000 ohms is only about 30 mA. 1/4WL back at the shorted matching section at ++, the currents have to be close to balanced because of the short. The coax connection at A and B is closer to the short than it is to to X and Y. The current down the coax braid at B does NOT have to be equal to the current at the feedpoint at X since they are a good percentage of 1/4WL different in location. And common-mode current can form standing waves so common-mode current maximums and minimums exist depending upon location on the feedline. The lumped circuit model strikes (out) again. X +--A---------------------------- | +--B--------Y -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Jeff wrote: I guess I'm missing it, but what problem is there running the feedline to the normal center fed yagi? No matter if against a mast, or mounted on a mast with the center of the boom attached to the mast, I don't see a problem. I do it all the time. No matter what polarization, I tape the coax to the mast, and then tape it to the boom to the feedpoint. I'd much rather run the yagi in the normal manner. This is a problem that is particular to vertically polarized yagis that are mounted with a pole going between the elements. The pole has to come up parallel to the elements to the boom. Some people overcome this by using non-conductive pole, BUT what do you do with the feeder, if you tape it to the pole you might just as well have used a metal pole!!! However, as I said in my previous post, my simulations seem to show that with careful positioning the effects can to quite small 73 Jeff I think normally the effect is fairly small. But I suppose it can vary per the position, and mast length, etc.. I guess it's all how picky you are about the gain/pattern. For moonbounce, etc, it might be worth worrying about. But for just a general purpose FM beam, I probably wouldn't worry too much. Unless the mast was a certain length to become resonant, it should pretty much be ignored by the antenna for the most part. Seems to me, right in the middle of the two midpoint elements would be about best, but I've never modeled other positions. I have seen quite a few people run vertical yagis with the midpoint mast mount with no serious problems. I think any small loss of performance would be less than trying to voltage feed thats for sure. You'll see lots of antenna ad's with pictures of vertical beams mounted on masts in that manner, so it shouldn't be too bad. I agree. There should be little difference in using a metal mast, or plastic, if the feedline shield is in place on both. I'd just as soon use the metal mast I think. It would look fatter with the extra metal mast, but I don't know if that would be a plus or a minus... MK |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
In message .com,
" writes Anyone ever get around the VHF FM vertical yagi feedline routing problem by voltage feeding the bottom of the driven element with a stub like a J-pole? A quick EZNEC run seems to indicate that it's not a bad idea. So it seems like it might work OK... but I wonder if anyone has actually done it. Would you expect a coaxial stub to work better than a parallel wire stub in terms of preserving the pattern of the yagi? Any commercial products doing this? There's an example of a 4ele 2m J-fed yagi in the MMANA files. It has a gain of 7dBd. Free space pattern is skewed up by 1 degree, but a real ground will do that anyway. I don't know of any commercial versions. Brian GM4DIJ -- Brian Howie |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Cecil Moore wrote: It certainly isn't that simple in a distributed network. The currents into the end of a half-wave section are certainly unbalanced at X and Y but the current amplitudes are pretty low. 5 watts into 5000 ohms is only about 30 mA. 1/4WL back at the shorted matching section at ++, Not that it ever does any good to try to get you to think about what you are saying, but that is nonsense Cecil. The short doesn't affect CM currents. The 1/4 wl line can act as current step up if the far end is grounded. Also, reach back in your rear and pull out another impedance number. The impedance value you grabbed from there is for a very thin wire compared to length, like an end-fed HF antenna. Tubing is alot lower on the end Cecil OM. Before going off on another Cecil-knows-best event and destroying a thread to make it all about you, run the model. Six meters, yagi, tubing. Not 40 meters and #16 wire. |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
|
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: The short doesn't affect CM currents. I1 +-----A------------X----------------------------- | +-----B------------Y I2 I1 and I2 are common-mode. What do you suppose will happen at the short? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp I know what happens. The problem is what YOU are supposing happens. |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: The short doesn't affect CM currents. I1 +-----A------------X----------------------------- | +-----B------------Y I2 I1 and I2 are common-mode. What do you suppose will happen at the short? I know what happens. The problem is what YOU are supposing happens. I'm supposing Kirchhoff's laws apply. What are you supposing? How is the above different from link coupling? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote: coax center conductor | I1 | +-----A------------X----------------------------- | +-----B------------Y I2 | | coax braid Kirchoff's laws apply, but you're forgetting one conductor. ------A+B----coax braid-------------| We are talking about what happens at the short on the left, not what happens at points A or B where the coax is connected. W8JI said the short doesn't affect the common mode current. Seems to me, the short has approximately the same effect on common mode currents as does a link coupling. The coax center conductor is connected at 'A' and the braid is connected at 'B'. Do you agree with W8JI that the common mode current at 'X' must equal the common mode current at 'B'? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Instantaneous sum of the common mode currents at B (you can give it an
overall minus sign if you want, but it's right for common mode): Current flowing toward B from X + Current flowing toward B from Y - current flowing out from B via coax shield - current flowing out from B via coax center conductor. All the common mode current on the coax will flow on the outside. So current flowing out from B via coax center conductor is zero. So current flowing on the coax braid = Current flowing from X to B + Current flowing from Y to B. Points A and B are one point except for the reactance of the short connecting them. Dan |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
So current flowing on the coax braid = Current flowing from X to B + Current flowing from Y to B. +-----A------------X----------------------------- | +-----B------------Y As you probably know, standing waves in distributed networks modify the conditions. The current "flowing" from X to B may not be the same amplitude or phase at X and B. The current "flowing" from Y to B may not be the same amplitude or phase at Y and B. This is NOT a DC circuit! So how can any sane person claim that the common mode current at X is identical to the common mode current at B? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
We're talking about the instantaneous common mode current of the real
system. That's the current actually flowing in the same direction in both legs of the stub. |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
|
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
We're talking about the instantaneous common mode current of the real system. That's the current actually flowing in the same direction in both legs of the stub. But standing waves of common mode current can and probably do exist. The amplitude of the common mode current varies depending upon its location in the distributed network. At a common mode standing wave node, the common mode current may measure zero. 1/4WL away, it may measure an appreciable magnitude. I have measured such on my own transmission lines. I suspect a dead short forces a common mode standing wave node. What else could possibly happen? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
wrote: We're talking about the instantaneous common mode current of the real system. That's the current actually flowing in the same direction in both legs of the stub. Cecil now has to sign his Mensa membership card over to you. You get the point and totally understand the problem. He doesn't. Seems that neither one of you guys realize that common mode current standing waves usually exist so the standing wave common mode current amplitude is NOT constant from one point to another in a distributed network. The lumped constant model strikes (out) once again. When are you guys going to realize that RF is NOT DC? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
In the case where the J-pole is isolated (crossbanding HT at the
feedpoint?) there's absolutely a node for the common mode current at the short, just like there's a node for the current on a wire at the end where the current can't flow. If you put a feedline on it, though, the standing wave pattern of common mode current changes. The feedline + jpole develops some pattern of standing waves on it. The common mode current is induced on the entire length of coax and stub... The sum of the common mode currents at point B is always as stated before... but the magnitude of ALL THREE of them depends on the details of the coax, whether or not there is a choke balun on it, the length and boundary condition on the other end of the coax. That is to say the common mode impedance at the top of the stub where the halfwave is connected depends on the details of the feedline. Stub vs. Stub + Coax: different common mode standing wave pattern, different common mode impedance at the top of the stub, different magnitude of current induced on the stub+coax than on the plain stub... Dan |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
If you put a feedline on it, though, the standing wave pattern of common mode current changes. +-----A------------X----------------------------- | +-----B------------Y On my diagram, the coax is always connected at A and B so *nothing has changed*. I just don't see any reason for the common mode current at 'X' to be exactly the same as the common mode current at 'B'. Do you? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote: On my diagram, the coax is always connected at A and B so *nothing has changed*. I just don't see any reason for the common mode current at 'X' to be exactly the same as the common mode current at 'B'. Do you? No, but no one said that except you. What I said was: Sorry, that's not what you said. What you said was that there is as much common mode current flowing down the feedline (at point B) as is flowing into the half-wave end-fed section of the antenna (at point X). +--A--------X------------------- | +--B--------Y The half-wave end-fed antenna starts at point X. The feedline is at point B. Here's what you said: wrote: 1.) You have a half-wave end-fed antenna. There has to be as much common mode current leaving the end of that point and flowing down the feedline as there is flowing out onto the antenna at that point. There isn't any exception to this rule. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Cecil Moore wrote: The half-wave end-fed antenna starts at point X. The feedline is at point B. Here's what you said: wrote: 1.) You have a half-wave end-fed antenna. There has to be as much common mode current leaving the end of that point and flowing down the feedline as there is flowing out onto the antenna at that point. There isn't any exception to this rule. The STUB is a balanced transmission line. If you quoted the entire post everyone would see what I meant. Your constant little games of pulling things from context just waste time and ruin the purpose of technical forums. You really should quit that, and try to use the forums for education. 73 Tom |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote: The half-wave end-fed antenna starts at point X. The feedline is at point B. Here's what you said: wrote: 1.) You have a half-wave end-fed antenna. There has to be as much common mode current leaving the end of that point and flowing down the feedline as there is flowing out onto the antenna at that point. There isn't any exception to this rule. The STUB is a balanced transmission line. If you quoted the entire post everyone would see what I meant. That is a complete quote of your item number 1. What you said is self explanatory. You said the current flowing onto the antenna is equal to the current flowing down the feedline. You were wrong. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Cecil Moore wrote: That is a complete quote of your item number 1. What you said is self explanatory. You said the current flowing onto the antenna is equal to the current flowing down the feedline. You were wrong. Cecil, rather than help people with questions and give them good helpful answers you seem to just want to turn it into a peeing contest. Even if you have to drop sentences to make it appear someone else is wrong. Why do you do that??? Don't you think it is more important to help the guy asking the question than to play Cecil games?? Actually here is everything I said in CONTEXT. Tell me what is wrong in the entire CONTEXT of what I said. From: - view profile Date: Thurs, Jul 6 2006 8:56 pm Email: Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna wrote: Tom, I didn't know that the feedline decoupling issues with J-poles were so bad. I'd be interested in more information about why it's such an issue. Would a sleeve stub work better than an open wire stub? It's certainly stupid to make the feedline MORE of an issue. Look at what the J-pole really is. 1.) You have a half-wave end-fed antenna. There has to be as much common mode current leaving the end of that point and flowing down the feedline as there is flowing out onto the antenna at that point. There isn't any exception to this rule. 2.) While that current may be small with a perfect half wave, it is never zero. It gets worse fast of the antenna is not 1/2 wl long electrically, or if it is thick. 3.) Now you have a 1/4 wl stub feeding that half-wave on the end. If you perfectly floated that 1/4 wl stub, common mode current in the stub would DECREASE as you move away from the feedpoint. But if you ground the 1/4 wl stub, current common mode INCREASES as you move away from the stub. This is why end-fed Zepps and J-poles model very good when a perfect ground independent current source is used to feed them. Unfortunately we can't do a perfect ground independent feedpoint in the real world, so depending on the CM impedance the amount of pattern distortion will be all over the place. This is why Zepps, antennas that are really just the same as a J-pole, are notorious for RF in the shack. The lack of feedlines in models are why people who do not include the feeder or feedline matching device to the 1/4 wl closed stub conclude they aren't so bad. Why would anyone go through all that bother to complicate the feed system in a Yagi is beyond me, when there are a half dozen easy solutions that were mentioned here. 73 Tom end of quote So you see, you mislead people on purpose Cecil. Shame on you. |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
Cecil, rather than help people with questions and give them good helpful answers you seem to just want to turn it into a peeing contest. Even if you have to drop sentences to make it appear someone else is wrong. Pot: Kettle, Kettle: Pot. This was a deliberate dose of your own medicine. When you stop the deliberate obfuscation of my postings, the problem will cease to exist. Why do you do that??? Don't you think it is more important to help the guy asking the question than to play Cecil games?? You are the one who taught me to play those silly games, Tom. Just as soon as you abandon your unethical methods of quoting, I will stop mirroring your actions back at you. You have even reverse-ordered the dates of my postings to make them appear to mean the opposite of what they originally meant. I know a few technical types who could be contributing to this newsgroup but are afraid of attack from your junk yard dog style. Your strategy seems to be to attack everyone who disagrees with you and try to drive them off the newsgroup. One of the QRZ moderators advised me to stop arguing with you because "W8JI is never wrong, even when he is completely wrong". He made me promise not to reveal his identity. Another individual regularly sends me technical information to use against your irrational arguments but makes me promise to keep his identity a secret lest he suffer one of your attacks. You have intimidated a lot of people with your attack dog style. One wonders why, if you are such a guru, you need to adopt such a style. How about a kindler, gentler W8JI in the future? I'm willing to agree to a truce which limits your and my postings to technical information and logical arguments. Are you willing to give up your ad hominem attacks and obfuscation of my postings? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: Cecil, rather than help people with questions and give them good helpful answers you seem to just want to turn it into a peeing contest. Even if you have to drop sentences to make it appear someone else is wrong. Pot: Kettle, Kettle: Pot. This was a deliberate dose of your own medicine. When you stop the deliberate obfuscation of my postings, the problem will cease to exist. That's not true. You interact with others through obfuscation and bullying. I just wish you could control it a little bit becuase you do have useful things to say. Sometimes people want answers to questions Cecil. The J-pole is a good example where the focus should be on the antenna. All of the models I've found on Cebik's site and nearly all of the models elsewhere lack a ground or mast connection at the shorted feed-stub junction, while most J-poles have that connection. They also use a floating ground independent current source, which virtually no J-poles have in the real world. I'd bet nearly all J-pole are eventually fed by unbalanced feedlines or feedlines with finite common mode. The models, through pure accident or lack of basic understanding, use a BEST case feed simulation that masks all of the problems a J-pole has with common mode current. No designer in his right mind would use such a lousy feed system to feed a pattern sensitive design like a Yagi antenna, they are barely acceptable as a omni-antenna. 73 Tom |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
You interact with others through obfuscation and bullying. I treat others the way they treat me. I treat you the way you treat me. You insist on turning my inclusive statements into exclusive straw men statements so you can argue with them. You are the only one who can change that interaction. We just had a civil exchange over on QRZ.COM where you didn't misquote me for a change. That could happen here. No designer in his right mind would use such a lousy feed system to feed a pattern sensitive design like a Yagi antenna, they are barely acceptable as a omni-antenna. I agree with everything you said about J-Poles in this posting so you are apparently trying to set up yet another straw man. One wonders why you feel compelled to try such a transparent trick. When I disagree with you on one minor point, you react as if I had disagreed with you on all major points. You really need to learn the difference between "inclusive" and "exclusive". My disagreement was inclusive of your point 1, not with anything else you said. That's why I trimmed out everything else. What I disagreed with you on is that common-mode current is the same at two different points in a J-Pole system separated by a 1/4WL stub feed system. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
The poor guy trying to learn about the J-pole probably didn't learn a thing about the J-pole Yagi feed. He probably thinks the model on the W4RNL site is a valid model. Way to go! 73 Tom |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
wrote:
The poor guy trying to learn about the J-pole probably didn't learn a thing about the J-pole Yagi feed. He probably thinks the model on the W4RNL site is a valid model. Again you divert the issue. Will you never learn to admit a simple mistake and move on? You were ignorant of the definition of the word "rationalize" but you are unlikely ever to admit it. If you simply change your bad boy ways, the world will be a much better place for all the rest of us. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
"Cecil Moore" wrote to W8JI: Again you divert the issue. Will you never learn to admit a simple mistake and move on? You were ignorant of the definition of the word "rationalize" but you are unlikely ever to admit it. If you simply change your bad boy ways, the world will be a much better place for all the rest of us. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp No can do Cecil. That goes back to his high school days and it only got worse. The best way is to state your wisdom against his and let the in-know judge and blind followers, worship. Too bad, but that is the reality. Makes Freaktenna look like a school boy. Add to it pretending to be an engineer and you get the picture. He will never admit to be wrong (never happened yet), if he realizes he was wrong, he will just go QRT on the subject for a while and then reemerge shemelessly as guru on the subject, without giving credit where is due. "Discussions" turn into obfuscating the subject, mumbo-jumbo and end with personal attacks and ridicule. Oh, wait, it culminates with threats of lawsuit. Such a shame, so many decent and knowledgeable people get turned off by this crap and ham community misses great resources. 73 bada BUm |
Voltage feeding a VHF yagi
Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote to W8JI: Again you divert the issue. Will you never learn to admit a simple mistake and move on? You were ignorant of the definition of the word "rationalize" but you are unlikely ever to admit it. If you simply change your bad boy ways, the world will be a much better place for all the rest of us. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp No can do Cecil. That goes back to his high school days and it only got worse. The best way is to state your wisdom against his and let the in-know judge and blind followers, worship. Too bad, but that is the reality. Makes Freaktenna look like a school boy. Add to it pretending to be an engineer and you get the picture. He will never admit to be wrong (never happened yet), if he realizes he was wrong, he will just go QRT on the subject for a while and then reemerge shemelessly as guru on the subject, without giving credit where is due. "Discussions" turn into obfuscating the subject, mumbo-jumbo and end with personal attacks and ridicule. Oh, wait, it culminates with threats of lawsuit. Such a shame, so many decent and knowledgeable people get turned off by this crap and ham community misses great resources. 73 bada BUm Speaking of personal attacks... 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH |
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