Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote:
Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? I know that some radios have provisions for installing crystals so that they'll work on off-band frequencies. How can I determine which radios are modifiable that way, and also where is a good place to get crystals these days? As information, the latest (and greatest?) iteration of the NTIA Red Book reinforces the spectral purity requirements for the 2-30 MHz band. The purity specification is currently 40db+10logPo. So, a 100 watt rig would need to have all spurious emissions down by a nominal 60Db. Most ham and a lot of commercial gear can't meet that spec. The 20HZ spec has been on the books for some time, now, and is not hard to meet given the current crop of equipment utilizing good quality TCXO's. It remains to be seen what CAP and MARS will do in the short term, and ultimately, with the spectral purity spec. Finally, the VFOs in Drake and Collins equipment can't come close to making any of the above specs or even coming close. Frequency tolerance is the one factor that can be easily and accurately measured, at a distance. |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? I know that some radios have provisions for installing crystals so that they'll work on off-band frequencies. How can I determine which radios are modifiable that way, and also where is a good place to get crystals these days? |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote:
Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? Many will reach the CAP and MARS frequencies at the edges of the dial. You can usually make small frequency shifts through modification, but most ham receivers of the boat anchor class used very frugal mixing schemes that carefully placed major spurious responses outside of the ham bands. Operation around the VFO frequency, or the first IF frequency will usually not be very nice. Crystals are readily available from Jan, or ICM. Google is your friend. -Chuck |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
I think many ham rigs do not meet the new CAP frequency tolerance
requirements. If you are planning on using the rig on CAP, make sure the rig is specifically listed as acceptable. Colin K7FM |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
"Rick " ) writes:
Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? I know that some radios have provisions for installing crystals so that they'll work on off-band frequencies. How can I determine which radios are modifiable that way, and also where is a good place to get crystals these days? CAP and MARS frequencies were (I don't know if it's the case now) generally chosen to be adjacent to ham bands so ham equipment could be used. There's little sense of having an auxiliary if the operators have to buy extra equipment or the organization has to do so. Remember, they date from before the new fangled equipment came along. Transmitters were easy, just pop in a suitable crystal and the rest of the unit would have enough leeway to tune the adjacent frequency. Receivers were more of a problem, since retuning generally meant retuning the local oscillator, there weren't always crystals to select the range. But a receiver that had a bit of overlap was usually okay. Hence, most equipment would be modifiable, if there wasn't enough overlap. Michael VE2BVW |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
On May 7, 9:13 pm, (Michael Black) wrote:
"Rick " ) writes: Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? I know that some radios have provisions for installing crystals so that they'll work on off-band frequencies. How can I determine which radios are modifiable that way, and also where is a good place to get crystals these days? CAP and MARS frequencies were (I don't know if it's the case now) generally chosen to be adjacent to ham bands so ham equipment could be used. There's little sense of having an auxiliary if the operators have to buy extra equipment or the organization has to do so. Remember, they date from before the new fangled equipment came along. Transmitters were easy, just pop in a suitable crystal and the rest of the unit would have enough leeway to tune the adjacent frequency. Receivers were more of a problem, since retuning generally meant retuning the local oscillator, there weren't always crystals to select the range. But a receiver that had a bit of overlap was usually okay. Hence, most equipment would be modifiable, if there wasn't enough overlap. Michael VE2BVW Collins S-Line (which includes KWM-2) is not strictly "ham band only" in the normal sense of the word. There are 15 or 30 selectable crystal positions which give a 200 kHz swing in the ranges of 3.4-5.0 and 6.5-30.0 MHz. It's possible to use an external frequency reference to hit a "dead nuts on" transmit frequency but for normal use you only have to be within a designated band limit. There was a crystal accessory originally intended for Novice ham use when they were rockbound. Use a counter or service monitor to check your transmit frequency if you are worried, but I doubt MARS or CAP is going to care if you are 1 khz or less off. Come to think of it, what are CAP's HF allocaions anyway? |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
The older equipment referenced, T4/R4, Collins KWM, Collins S-line do not
require any 'modification' to reach the CAP/MARS frequencies. I used the Drake T4XC/R4C for years, 1970 through 1985, at AFF1C/AFB1JX/AFW1MCE and I used the KWM-2A at AGA5HI in the 70s. All that is required is the proper mixing crystal. This class of equipment, however, does not meet the frequency accuracy requirements so external frequency measuring equipment or a FYMON station was required to assure accuracy. The output tuned L/C circuits have a minor impact on the efficiency of the final amplifier. Finally, this class of equipment will NOT OPERATE in selected frequency ranges around the radio's i.f. frequencies. More modern equipment can be modified to operate on CAP/MARS. Check the various use groups for specifics. I have 'opened-up' my IC-746 and IC-706MKIIg without any problems. /s/ W1MCE Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote: Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? I know that some radios have provisions for installing crystals so that they'll work on off-band frequencies. How can I determine which radios are modifiable that way, and also where is a good place to get crystals these days? |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote:
Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? The Collins CP-1 crystal pack provided general coverage HF operation for the S/Line and KWM-2 equipment. A listing of available operating frequencies is he http://www.collinsradio.org/html/s-l...cessories.html 73, Ed Knobloch |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
On Tue, 08 May 2007 00:05:35 GMT, "COLIN LAMB"
wrote: I think many ham rigs do not meet the new CAP frequency tolerance requirements. If you are planning on using the rig on CAP, make sure the rig is specifically listed as acceptable. Colin K7FM If you look at the list of compliant radios for CAP https://ntc.cap.af.mil/comm/ you will see that there is almost nothing in the way of amateur radio equipment that would be useable for CAP. Dick - W6CCD -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
On May 8, 9:29 am, Edward Knobloch wrote:
Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote: Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? The Collins CP-1 crystal pack provided general coverage HF operation for the S/Line and KWM-2 equipment. A listing of available operating frequencies is hehttp://www.collinsradio.org/html/s-l...cessories.html There is a dead band that is not usable on these, 5 to 6.5 MHz. Also you need a lot of xtals. Even with the expansion board you can only have if I remember 30 of them. There were external VFOs that provided all the possible frequencies for both the xtal osc and the VFO. A Jaapanese company made one. I think a service monitor will do as well if the output level is high enough, most have programmable frequencies like scanners. I think if the weight and size weren't prohibitive the IFR 1500 would be ideal because it's available cheap and because it has full duplex unlike the more common 1200/500 series. You could of course just use a sig gen, again, assuming the level is high enough. No where in the Collins manuals is the drive level needed specified! I'm suirprised a digital internal VFO hasn't been devised for S-Line. |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
"RapidRonnie" wrote in message ps.com... On May 7, 9:13 pm, (Michael Black) wrote: "Rick " ) writes: Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? I know that some radios have provisions for installing crystals so that they'll work on off-band frequencies. How can I determine which radios are modifiable that way, and also where is a good place to get crystals these days? CAP and MARS frequencies were (I don't know if it's the case now) generally chosen to be adjacent to ham bands so ham equipment could be used. There's little sense of having an auxiliary if the operators have to buy extra equipment or the organization has to do so. Remember, they date from before the new fangled equipment came along. Transmitters were easy, just pop in a suitable crystal and the rest of the unit would have enough leeway to tune the adjacent frequency. Receivers were more of a problem, since retuning generally meant retuning the local oscillator, there weren't always crystals to select the range. But a receiver that had a bit of overlap was usually okay. Hence, most equipment would be modifiable, if there wasn't enough overlap. Michael VE2BVW Collins S-Line (which includes KWM-2) is not strictly "ham band only" in the normal sense of the word. There are 15 or 30 selectable crystal positions which give a 200 kHz swing in the ranges of 3.4-5.0 and 6.5-30.0 MHz. It's possible to use an external frequency reference to hit a "dead nuts on" transmit frequency but for normal use you only have to be within a designated band limit. There was a crystal accessory originally intended for Novice ham use when they were rockbound. Use a counter or service monitor to check your transmit frequency if you are worried, but I doubt MARS or CAP is going to care if you are 1 khz or less off. Come to think of it, what are CAP's HF allocaions anyway? CAP members, like MARs, are instructed not to reveal any frequency allocations due to OPSEC. J |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
On May 8, 11:26 pm, "Jerry" wrote:
"RapidRonnie" wrote in message ps.com... On May 7, 9:13 pm, (Michael Black) wrote: "Rick " ) writes: Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? I know that some radios have provisions for installing crystals so that they'll work on off-band frequencies. How can I determine which radios are modifiable that way, and also where is a good place to get crystals these days? CAP and MARS frequencies were (I don't know if it's the case now) generally chosen to be adjacent to ham bands so ham equipment could be used. There's little sense of having an auxiliary if the operators have to buy extra equipment or the organization has to do so. Remember, they date from before the new fangled equipment came along. Transmitters were easy, just pop in a suitable crystal and the rest of the unit would have enough leeway to tune the adjacent frequency. Receivers were more of a problem, since retuning generally meant retuning the local oscillator, there weren't always crystals to select the range. But a receiver that had a bit of overlap was usually okay. Hence, most equipment would be modifiable, if there wasn't enough overlap. Michael VE2BVW Collins S-Line (which includes KWM-2) is not strictly "ham band only" in the normal sense of the word. There are 15 or 30 selectable crystal positions which give a 200 kHz swing in the ranges of 3.4-5.0 and 6.5-30.0 MHz. It's possible to use an external frequency reference to hit a "dead nuts on" transmit frequency but for normal use you only have to be within a designated band limit. There was a crystal accessory originally intended for Novice ham use when they were rockbound. Use a counter or service monitor to check your transmit frequency if you are worried, but I doubt MARS or CAP is going to care if you are 1 khz or less off. Come to think of it, what are CAP's HF allocaions anyway? You are full of ****!!!!!! CAP is civil search and rescue. MARS is military AFFILIATE-not operational. Full of ****. Just for that I'll monitor and post a couple. |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
There were external VFOs that provided all the possible frequencies for both the xtal osc and the VFO. A Jaapanese company made one. I think a service monitor will do as well if the output level is high enough, most have programmable frequencies like scanners. I think if the weight and size weren't prohibitive the IFR 1500 would be ideal because it's available cheap and because it has full duplex unlike the more common 1200/500 series. You could of course just use a sig gen, again, assuming the level is high enough. No where in the Collins manuals is the drive level needed specified! Most hams are such cheap asses the idea they should have a service monitor would them **** their pants. Then again, most hams are so old they do that anyway. |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
I just checked the compliant CAP list of commercial HF gear. Neither
Collins, Drake, Icom, Ten-Tec or Kenwood had any amateur equipment that were on the compliant list. The only ham rig I could find that was on the complaint list was a special version of the 817, and then it had to be operated under 5 watts and it was not compliant on vhf. The use of a compliant list means that if you are using a non-compliant unit and use elaborate equipment to monitor the frequency to the nerest tenth of a Hz, you are still non-compliant. In short, there is nothing you can do to make it compliant. It is similar on Search and Rescue frequencies. Althoughamateur vhf equipment can be modified to operate on Search and Rescue, it is not type certified and therefore illegal. In our state, it is the local sheriff who holds the license - so any violation reflects upon the sheriff. We do not allow our local SAR members to operate modified ham gear on the SAR frequencies. Colin K7FM |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote:
Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? The KWM-2 was designed as a wideband radio and can cover most of the HF bands. They were sold to many government agencies and the ham market was a small part of the total sales. The ham models are only lacking the full crystal board to be used across the band. I believe the TR-4 was also originally intended to cover the full HF bands and the ham version is only lacking some minor options. How can I determine which radios are modifiable that way, and also where is a good place to get crystals these days? By reading the service manuals. ICM is a good source for crystals and are fine folks to deal with. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Ham bands only rigs, off-band operation?
On May 16, 9:37 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote: Typically, can ham-bands-only receivers such as the Drake R4 and Collins 75A or 75S series, transmitters such as the Collins 32S and Drake T4 series, and transceivers such as Drake TR-4 and Collins KWM-2, be modified to work on CAP and MARS frequencies? The KWM-2 was designed as a wideband radio and can cover most of the HF bands. They were sold to many government agencies and the ham market was a small part of the total sales. The ham models are only lacking the full crystal board to be used across the band. As I said: Collins S-Line (which includes KWM-2) is not strictly "ham band only" in the normal sense of the word. There are 15 or 30 selectable crystal positions which give a 200 kHz swing in the ranges of 3.4-5.0 and 6.5-30.0 MHz. In other words, you do not have all the HF ham allocations, because you have no 160 meters. You also do not have the new 60 meter allocations, specific 5332-5405 channels. S-Line gear made with the single crystal deck may be upgraded to the dual deck configuration. You still only get 30, 200 kHz snippets. That's a total of 6000 kHz or 6 MHz total coverage. The 32S-x transmitter and KWM may be run with an external mixing source, such as a signal generator or VFO. The receivers can also with some minor mods. This is not my definition of "general coverage". Additionally, you do not have true CW transmit except on the later S-3 transmitter, and you do not have AM transmit on the KWM-2 or the 32S unless modified. Even then, it's not full plate modulation. S-Line Collins is (as Bret puts it) "JFK/MM era stylish" and reasonably well built but is not a mil-spec box. I'm not at all familiar with Drake but I know they are well liked and apparently in modified form are the choice of hardcore contesters, over Collins or true comm/mil gear. |
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