"kram" ) writes:
Dale,

How about if we assume that I am not a troll!

You misread his post. He was replying to the post by someone else asking
what a Zeus is. He took that poster for a troll.

That other post did show a certain ignorance, certainly suggesting he doesn't
know what this newsgroup is about.

On the other hand, when people treat this as a buy and sell newsgroup, rather
than a newsgroup to discuss these old rigs, it does nothing to eductate such
people about the old rigs. The stuff I deleted from your post, about how
you had a Zeus as a kid is intriguing, because while I came along about
a decade or so after it was produced, it always struck me as something the
average kid would only lust after, rather than own.

Michael VE2BVW

In article ,
Michael Black wrote:
"kram" ) writes:
Dale,

How about if we assume that I am not a troll!

You misread his post. He was replying to the post by someone else asking
what a Zeus is. He took that poster for a troll.

That other post did show a certain ignorance, certainly suggesting he doesn't
know what this newsgroup is about.

And this, in short, is why top-posting is a bad idea.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

.......The stuff I deleted from your post, about how
you had a Zeus as a kid is intriguing, because while I came along about
a decade or so after it was produced, it always struck me as something the
average kid would only lust after, rather than own.

Michael VE2BVW


Since you are intrigued I guess I should explain further lest I give you the
wrong impression. I also came along about a decade later. I bought the rig
when I was abaout 16, used, in about 1973. This was the last years of AM
VHF in California. A year or two later I traded it in against a Kenwood
TS-700.

73,

WA6VCR

"kram" ) writes:
......The stuff I deleted from your post, about how
you had a Zeus as a kid is intriguing, because while I came along about
a decade or so after it was produced, it always struck me as something the
average kid would only lust after, rather than own.

Michael VE2BVW


Since you are intrigued I guess I should explain further lest I give you the
wrong impression. I also came along about a decade later. I bought the rig
when I was abaout 16, used, in about 1973. This was the last years of AM
VHF in California. A year or two later I traded it in against a Kenwood
TS-700.

73,

WA6VCR

Ah.

And that's exactly what Jim was talking about.

Right at that point, the old tube rigs were pretty much seen as junk,
so people like us coming into the hobby could get them at great prices.
I brought home various rigs from the local ham auction and even people's
junk piles, played with them and then traded them off.

It was very cheap to get into the hobby that way at that point. You would
see it all the time in the photos in the ham magazines, young people with
older rigs and they had neat stuff.

It's only with the passage of time that the stuff became valuable, and
not to get newcomers on the air, but because people as they aged regretted
getting rid of their old stuff, when they were no longer using it.

Michael VE2BVW

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 04:07:27 UTC, (Michael
Black) wrote:

"kram" ) writes:
......The stuff I deleted from your post, about how
you had a Zeus as a kid is intriguing, because while I came along about
a decade or so after it was produced, it always struck me as something the
average kid would only lust after, rather than own.

Michael VE2BVW


Since you are intrigued I guess I should explain further lest I give you the
wrong impression. I also came along about a decade later. I bought the rig
when I was abaout 16, used, in about 1973. This was the last years of AM
VHF in California. A year or two later I traded it in against a Kenwood
TS-700.

73,

WA6VCR

Ah.

And that's exactly what Jim was talking about.

Right at that point, the old tube rigs were pretty much seen as junk,
so people like us coming into the hobby could get them at great prices.
I brought home various rigs from the local ham auction and even people's
junk piles, played with them and then traded them off.

It was very cheap to get into the hobby that way at that point. You would
see it all the time in the photos in the ham magazines, young people with
older rigs and they had neat stuff.

It's only with the passage of time that the stuff became valuable, and
not to get newcomers on the air, but because people as they aged regretted
getting rid of their old stuff, when they were no longer using it.

Michael VE2BVW

Somehow, I missed that. About 1962(?) I bought an SX-101A, it was
$200., a year later, 1963 I paid "about" that for a working HT-37.

In the early 1970's, an SB-101 was about $200 but it wasn't working.
It took me years to build up to opening the LMO an fix the frequency
jump problem.

About 1970, the HW-32/HP-23 was about $150 to buy and sell. It
was dead when I got it and working OK but off frequency when I sold
it a year or two later. I'd guess this combo is a little less than
that today.

Between 1970 and 2002, I didn't do much radio shopping except for
the ICOM IC-720A in the early 1980's. $2,000 including the optional
filters and power supply.

For a Rip Van Winkle, Active shopper between 1960 and 1970, active
on the air between "about" 1962 and 1970. Briefly active about
1980, and again after 2001/2002, it seems that prices did not change
that much.

The biggest differences a

1) The U.S. manufacturers suddenly vanished. It doesn't seem
gradual to me. One day they were there, the next, they're all
gone. There's a thin layer of iridium in the strata marking the
dieoff.

2) Boatanchor prices are consistant but not in constant dollars.
$200 was a LOT of money to a 15, 16 year old but it bought amazing
technology and quality.

$200 today is still a lot of money, it buys a 20 inch color TV set,
VCR, DVD player, AND an external speaker system. It also buys a
nice boatanchor.

3) The new stuff doesn't seem "better" than the old. The ergonomics
are bizarre. The old stuff was carefully designed, knobs were large
and either ribbed (Hallicrafters) or fluted (Heath and Collins).
The lettering was large and precise.

The old man-machine interface made sense, clockwise to increase, up
is on. The physical knob orientation indicated the setting of the
control. The KWM-2A aux crystal bank shifted into position and
changed the lettering surrounding the knob.

The new stuff is a cruel joke. The knobs are too small, like
toothpaste caps. Press a button here and something over there works
differently, the clue is on the LCD panel which is not in proximity
to either.

Given the typical suburban antenna farm, a tribander and a wire
dipole for 40, any upgrade or downgrade in QTH or antenna counts
for more than the radios.

I managed to hang onto most of my old gear but then, I wasn't much
of a buyer or seller (until recently). Any of my old stations was
serviceable, even the HT-37, SX-101A. The problem with the
boatanchors was the frequency readout. Collins and Heathkit solved
that with mechanical indicators on linear tuneable oscillators.

At 57 and trying to build retirement savings, I don't have a lot of
spare time or money. Retirement isn't sitting slack-jawed all day
long. It means having enough income and assets that I don't have to
put up with management's baloney, the Ken Lays and Bernie Ebbers of
the corporate world and their toady minions. I especially don't
want to spend the rest of my life listening to their hallucinations
and nutty ravings (I blame Dilbert for exposing the reality of the
corporate world.)

I'd rather refurb my radios, figure out how to re-fill the metal can
3 section capacitor in the 75S-1, practice my CW to keep my fingers
flexible.

It might not happen, but I'm hoping that the boat anchor market
takes off and I can sell my SB-303's for "Antique Roadshow" kinda
money. Until then, I'm figuring out how to clean and restore them
which is fun.

If it happens... $10,000 for an SB-303, well, I can dream, can't I?

de ah6gi/4

"No Spam " No wrote in message news:ifgU75G3LLdo-pn2-kckfOe99Ln2x@localhost...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 04:07:27 UTC, (Michael
Black) wrote:

And that's exactly what Jim was talking about.

Yep.

Right at that point, the old tube rigs were pretty much seen as junk,
so people like us coming into the hobby could get them at great prices.
I brought home various rigs from the local ham auction and even people's
junk piles, played with them and then traded them off.

Same here.

It was very cheap to get into the hobby that way at that point. You would
see it all the time in the photos in the ham magazines, young people with
older rigs and they had neat stuff.

But at the time, it wasn't always seen as neat stuff.

It's only with the passage of time that the stuff became valuable, and
not to get newcomers on the air, but because people as they aged regretted
getting rid of their old stuff, when they were no longer using it.

Michael VE2BVW

Somehow, I missed that. About 1962(?) I bought an SX-101A, it was
$200., a year later, 1963 I paid "about" that for a working HT-37.

That was before the above effects were happening.

In the early 1970's, an SB-101 was about $200 but it wasn't working.
It took me years to build up to opening the LMO an fix the frequency
jump problem.

The SB family was still being made then. And all the gear you name is
SSB capable.

About 1970, the HW-32/HP-23 was about $150 to buy and sell. It
was dead when I got it and working OK but off frequency when I sold
it a year or two later. I'd guess this combo is a little less than
that today.

Between 1970 and 2002, I didn't do much radio shopping except for
the ICOM IC-720A in the early 1980's. $2,000 including the optional
filters and power supply.

For a Rip Van Winkle, Active shopper between 1960 and 1970, active
on the air between "about" 1962 and 1970. Briefly active about
1980, and again after 2001/2002, it seems that prices did not change
that much.

The biggest differences a

1) The U.S. manufacturers suddenly vanished. It doesn't seem
gradual to me. One day they were there, the next, they're all
gone. There's a thin layer of iridium in the strata marking the
dieoff.

It seemed gradual to me. EFJ and H/H were the first to go. National
hung on a bit longer, Drake even longer and Collins well into the
1980s with the KWM-380.

2) Boatanchor prices are consistant but not in constant dollars.
$200 was a LOT of money to a 15, 16 year old but it bought amazing
technology and quality.

$200 today is still a lot of money, it buys a 20 inch color TV set,
VCR, DVD player, AND an external speaker system. It also buys a
nice boatanchor.

Agree 100%. The only way to really compare is to figure out how many
hours of typical teeenage-job work were needed to earn the rig.

For example, a DX-60 kit was $79.95 when I was a Novice. You also had
to pay to ship it. Minimum wage back then might yield you $1 an hour
after taxes, and many kids got less than that by doing jobs like
mowing lawns and shoveling snow.

So that DX-60 cost 80-100 hours of work, and you still needed
crystals, a receiver w/ accessories, key/mike, antenna and a TR
system.

Today, one can expect to take home $5 an hour or so for those jobs. So
80-100 hours work translates to $400-500.

73 de Jim, N2EY