|
ham radio history.
saw the question on the Clegg Zeus.
I wonder still about the great die-off in the 1970's. In the mid-60's when "incentive licensing" came about, Wayne Green wrote editorials predicting the failure of incentive licensing as well as the demise of amateur radio manufacturers and the eclipse of the American electronics industry. In retrospect, it seems to have happened, although there are numerous other forces involved. Computers, the Internet, cell fones, cable TeeVee, birth control, and of course, inflation. Hallicrafters, Collins, Eldico, Clegg, Drake, Hammarlund, National, Mosley, Telrex, Eico, Tri-ex, Hygain, Johnson, Heath, Knight, Layfayette, Gonset, Signal/One, Globe, Henry Radio, add in the distribution channels, the local stocking parts houses, the parts manufacturers, the band activity, and it sure seems that Wayne called it. Before everyone heads for the big QSO party in the sky, how about adding your I-was-there observations and recollections. One thing I wonder was what happened when Heathkit unraveled? what happened to the thousands of spare parts. Knowing how procurement and inventory control works, I'm certain that they had hundreds of SB, round and green, cabinets and thousands of green and black knobs at the end. Where did those parts go? I've seen rumors that someone or some corporation bought up the parts inventory or that a rich ham has a warehouse with several hundred unbuilt kits. Did they take a tractor trailer to Dayton and liquidate the parts? Was there ever a year that someone showed up with 40 SX-117's and sold them for half price? I have 70% of the parts for the Mosley CM-1 receiver. When Mosley dropped the product line, they sold the inventory and a store in St. Louis sold CM-1 parts kits, not all the parts but many of them. That's what happened to the Mosley CM-1, this was in 1965. That's what I'd expect happened to the other vendors unless they continue today. Collins folded in to Rockwell. MFJ got the the HyGain product line. Signal/One devolved into a criminal operation. Comments? de ah6gi/4 -- |
Steve wrote:
One thing I wonder was what happened when Heathkit unraveled? what happened to the thousands of spare parts. Knowing how procurement and inventory control works, I'm certain that they had hundreds of SB, round and green, cabinets and thousands of green and black knobs at the end. Where did those parts go? I've seen rumors that someone or some corporation bought up the parts inventory or that a rich ham has a warehouse with several hundred unbuilt kits. Did they take a tractor trailer to Dayton and liquidate the parts? Was there ever a year that someone showed up with 40 SX-117's and sold them for half price? I suspect that the individual franchised Heathkit stores went to the local hamfests and sold off the leftover inventory. At least that is what happened in Maryland. First the local store offered reductions on the kits in stock, and all of the demonstrator models that were in the store, then after all the good stuff (read ham stuff) was gone, they started showing up at the local hamfests with trailer loads of heath trash. Weather stations, wiper delays, accessories, ... All because Schlumberger had to get rid of the kit and computer division to avoid an antitrust problem when they bought Fairchild. -Chuck Harris |
Chuck Harris ) writes:
Steve wrote: One thing I wonder was what happened when Heathkit unraveled? what happened to the thousands of spare parts. Knowing how procurement and inventory control works, I'm certain that they had hundreds of SB, round and green, cabinets and thousands of green and black knobs at the end. Where did those parts go? I've seen rumors that someone or some corporation bought up the parts inventory or that a rich ham has a warehouse with several hundred unbuilt kits. Did they take a tractor trailer to Dayton and liquidate the parts? Was there ever a year that someone showed up with 40 SX-117's and sold them for half price? I suspect that the individual franchised Heathkit stores went to the local hamfests and sold off the leftover inventory. At least that is what happened in Maryland. First the local store offered reductions on the kits in stock, and all of the demonstrator models that were in the store, then after all the good stuff (read ham stuff) was gone, they started showing up at the local hamfests with trailer loads of heath trash. Weather stations, wiper delays, accessories, ... All because Schlumberger had to get rid of the kit and computer division to avoid an antitrust problem when they bought Fairchild. -Chuck Harris That sounds a bit garbled. Wasn't Schlumberger out of the picture a lot earlier? Wasn't it Zenith that bought Heath, in the late seventies or early eighties, leading to a period when pre-assembled Heath computers were sold as Zenith's? Heath "died" about a decade ago. That's relatively recent. Even then, it continued/continues, though on a much smaller scale and not as a kit manufacturer. They continued with the educational kits, or something like that. And I thought they carried some inventory, at least for a few years. Even a few years back, people were pointing people to Heath as a source of spare parts in various newsgroups, I'm sure including this one. And I think it was other issues that got Heath out of the kit business. there was a period when they were selling to a wide range of the public. I remember a John T. Frye article in Popular Electronics thirty years ago where he wrote about the process of turning an item into a Heathkit, and they used novices to test build using the instructions, to ensure that anybody could build the kit. So the market was not just those interested in electronics, but anyone who felt up to assemblying the kit, and wanted to save some money. With time, the kits got too complicated, because the level of electronics had risen. And the savings to the builder were little or none. Solid state brough a high level of mechanization in assemblying, something that was not the case with tube equipment. One could probably cut some money off a product if the end user put it together, even given the extra cost of making it a kit. But that changed as the equipment became more complicated, so you were either paying the same price for the kit as an equivalent assembled unit, or even paying premium. That surely reduced the average public's interest in such things, and it was that wider swatch of the public that made the company profitable. When only hard core hobbyists were interested in the kits, they could not sustain the company. And that surely is why it got out of the kit business. Yes, there have risen various companies since then who put out kits. But they are much smaller companies, deal with a specific market, and likely deal with builders who expect less of a level of handholding. Michael VE2BVW |
Michael Black wrote:
Chuck Harris ) writes: All because Schlumberger had to get rid of the kit and computer division to avoid an antitrust problem when they bought Fairchild. -Chuck Harris That sounds a bit garbled. It isn't, though. Wasn't Schlumberger out of the picture a lot earlier? Wasn't it Zenith that bought Heath, in the late seventies or early eighties, leading to a period when pre-assembled Heath computers were sold as Zenith's? Schlumberger was/is a conglomerate corporation that is composed of a bunch of dissimilar companies that they bought up and held... much like what IBM, GE and Honeywell do. Schlumberger wanted to get into the semiconducter manufacturing business, so they were looking for a manufacturing plant to buy... Fairchild was up for sale. The FTC strongly suggested to Schlumberger that if they bought Fairchild they MIGHT be taken to court for antitrust violations. The reason for this is Heath was one of Fairchild's major customers. The FTC of that time didn't like anything that was vertical in that way. So, Schlumberger went looking for a buyer for Heath/Zenith, and that buyer was a French company called Group Bull. Group Bull wanted to enter the personal computer market in the worst way, so when they saw that Heath/Zenith, a semi major player in the personal computer and data entry terminal business was up for sale, they jumped. Bull never had any interest in the Heath side of the business, so at the first possible opportunity, they pulled the plug. Heath was set off on their own. With no money, no manufacturing capability, and did I mention no money? What you say about the decline of the kit business is mostly true, but I firmly believe that if FTC hadn't put their nose into the business, and caused Group Bull to buy Heath/Zenith, there would still be a kit company. -Chuck Harris For a more complete discussion of the life of Heathkit, read: "Heathkit, A Guide To The Amateur Radio Products," by Penson. |
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Chuck Harris wrote:
Michael Black wrote: Chuck Harris ) writes: All because Schlumberger had to get rid of the kit and computer division to avoid an antitrust problem when they bought Fairchild. -Chuck Harris That sounds a bit garbled. It isn't, though. Wasn't Schlumberger out of the picture a lot earlier? Wasn't it Zenith that bought Heath, in the late seventies or early eighties, leading to a period when pre-assembled Heath computers were sold as Zenith's? Schlumberger was/is a conglomerate corporation that is composed of a bunch of dissimilar companies that they bought up and held... much like what IBM, GE and Honeywell do. Schlumberger wanted to get into the semiconducter manufacturing business, so they were looking for a manufacturing plant to buy... Fairchild was up for sale. The FTC strongly suggested to Schlumberger that if they bought Fairchild they MIGHT be taken to court for antitrust violations. The reason for this is Heath was one of Fairchild's major customers. The FTC of that time didn't like anything that was vertical in that way. So, Schlumberger went looking for a buyer for Heath [ I just checked my reference, and I missed a step: Schlumberger sold Heath to Zenith. It was somewhat later when Heath/Zenith developed its line of computers that Heath/Zenith got bought up by Group Bull ] buyer was a French company called Group Bull. Group Bull wanted to enter the personal computer market in the worst way, so when they saw that Heath/Zenith, a semi major player in the personal computer and data entry terminal business was up for sale, they jumped. Bull never had any interest in the Heath side of the business, so at the first possible opportunity, they pulled the plug. Heath was set off on their own. With no money, no manufacturing capability, and did I mention no money? What you say about the decline of the kit business is mostly true, but I firmly believe that if FTC hadn't put their nose into the business, and caused Group Bull to buy Heath/Zenith, there would still be a kit company. -Chuck Harris For a more complete discussion of the life of Heathkit, read: "Heathkit, A Guide To The Amateur Radio Products," by Penson. |
"No Spam " No wrote in message news:ifgU75G3LLdo-pn2-6dc5RepOHFeN@localhost...
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:31:34 UTC, (Michael Black) wrote: And I think it was other issues that got Heath out of the kit business. there was a period when they were selling to a wide range of the public. ... Michael VE2BVW All reasonable points but I'm interested in what people observed happening, not their interpretation of why it happened. You make good points and are welcome to expand on them but I wonder how the die-off appeared to folk who saw it happening. Here's what I saw: Byt the mid-1960s there was a wide selection of US-made ham gear, new, kit and used. Surplus was still all over the place and dirt cheap. If you knew where to look for parts, homebrewing could be done easily. Heath stuff was OK but not in the same league as Drake or Collins. Drake was the poor man's Collins, Heath was the poor man's Drake. Swan was in there someplace but opinions varied widely on it, and no serious contester or DXer used Swan stuff. Hammarlund, Hallicrafters and National were still in business but not nearly so popular as Collins/Drake/Heath/Swan There were a few Japanese imported rigs, but they were generally considered to be inferior. Some were disguised - most Lafayeete stuff was "imported", and the popular Henry 'Tempo One' was actually a rebadged Yaesu FT-200. All this may seem like BA nirvana but there was one big problem: Very few rigs did everything well. What I mean is that most rigs lacked basic features that we take for granted today. Consider the SB-100 - nice SSB rig, 100W, 80-10. Pretty good on SSB. But it had no provision for a sharp CW filter, no RIT, and no AGC off/slow/fast choice. No processor or noise blanker, either. The later SB-101 and -102 added the sharp filter option but kept the other problems. Now if you spent the money for an SB-300/400 pair, you could have a sharp CW filter and AGC selection, plus independent control of transmit and receive freq. But no transceive-with-RIT, no processor, no noise blanker, and you had two boxes and their interconnecting cables. Similar problems dogged almost all other makes and models. There was always something left out that could have been easily incorporated, but wasn't in the designer's vision. Most of the ham gear outfits were not as big as we hams like to think. In the case of Collins, ham gear was a sideline that existed in large part because Art Collins wanted it that way. Heath sold far more non-ham kits - we were just one division. Most of the big names were still being run by their founders. These folks were getting on in years by the 1960s. Then in the '70s 'serious' Japanese ham gear began to appear. Yaesu's FT-101 and the Kenwood TS-520 families showed up with lots of desired features all in one box, at a reasonable price. They were almost all solidstate, too. What American-made setup of the time could compete with a TS-520S? It was a 100W transceiver that covered 160-10 plus WWV. Optional CW filter, DC supply and external VFO. AGC switch, processor, fan for the finals, RIT, etc., etc. All in one receiver-sized box. Heath and Drake at least tried to compete. But the Japanese had the advantage of a head start, plus a favorable exchange rate and cheaper labor. Heath had the double whammy that their designs could not require serious test gear for alignment. The result was that the hams who bough new gear bought so much Japanese-made and so little American made that the bottom fell out. By the way, the old Heath Tube-Audio junque commands a premium from the audio-nuts. I don't know why. It's not like -cough-cough- tube SSB transceivers. Three reasons: 1) It's hollowstate 2) It sounds pretty good as-is, and even better with a few mods. 3) It is well documented and easy to modify. A word about tube audio vice tube (boatanchor) radio. The audio nuts say that tube audio is superior, produces better sound. I could give you a pile of reasons for that, but it all comes down to one thing: What constitutes "better sound" is purely subjective. Generally tube SSB/CW types don't claim that. I have tube radios because they are inexpensive and I can fix them. Solid state radios could be just as maintainable but the manufacturers make the parts too small for me to work on. My SB-104A and SB-303 are really tube style radios (except for the 104A's digital readout), mostly big, cheap common parts. They're also 30 years old. When I built my HW-2036, the parts looked tiny. Now they look huge. It wasn't just the economics of kits, the Hallicrafters, National, etc were done in by something else. They did not/could not keep up with the competition. In the 1960's, during the ramp up to Incentive Licensing, Wayne Green was blustering and pounding the table about how Japan, which was toying with both no-code and a low-barrier licenses, would produce millions of engineers and technicians, Their skills would design and build products that would dominate ham radio and eventually electronics. Wayne was and is full of it. Japan has had no-code-test ham radio since 1952, when their government took over the licensing from the occupation government. They got away with it because of some creative interpretation of the treaty. They have never had "low barrier" licenses - their written tests are and were quite involved. Licensing beyond the 4th class required code tests in both International Morse and Katakana. While other factors contributed to the die-off, there is no question that Wayne called it exactly right. I disagree. Remember in the 1960's, there was essentially no Japanese amateur radio gear imported, except for that mechanical key and maybe code practice oscillators.. Not true. Lafayette was importing ham/SWL receivers from Japan in the '50s. Allied did the same somewhat later. It probably wasn't until the early 1970's that Yaesu and Kenwood showed up. Now ICOM, Japan Radio, and others have the lions share of the market. What really happened was that Japan was devastated by WW2, but began a longterm process of rebuilding everything. It took some years before they got to niche things like ham gear. Post WW2 Japan did not get involved in big military spending, a space program, or foreign entanglements. Their focus was on rebuilding their country and becoming a world economic and industrial power. Once the basic industries and infrastructure were rebuilt, they focused on specific areas like consumer electronics because such items are relatively small and high-value. And because so much of their pre-1945 industry had been destroyed, everything was relatively new compared to US industry. What happened to Hammarlund? EF Johnson? Were there fire sales every year at Dayton? What happened to the last run of HQ-215's or the last batch of NC-270's. Did National ever make a solid state radio, other than the HRO-500? See above. Their managements reached retirement age and the required investments in new designs were not made. Some designs were simply not that good, too. Compare the NCL-2000 to the Drake L-4B or even the SB-220. The latter are more rugged, less fussy and use cheaper tubes. When they turned the lights out at Hallicrafters, were there a batch of SR-500's in a warehouse that took that last ride to Dayton? Did people see bins of bare chassis or front panels at the tailgate sales? Incomplete NCL-2000's? Some of that. Usually, however, the way it worked was that the last batch was sold off and then there were no more. I'm guessing that the die-off happened about 1970, give or take a few years. I didn't go to Dayton until around 1980 so I missed it. I also stopped reading the ham magazines between 1966 and almost 1980. The ads alone tell the story. Collins hung on the longest, I think, making the KWM-380 because it was part of the deal when Art sold the company. Ten Tec apeared in 1968 making little QRP rigs and just kept on growing. Look at the Orion... Signal One came and went, but was a factor in "paradigm shift" about ham rigs. By the by, I'm here because I have started collecting and restoring boat anchors. I believe these are valuable collectables and that in 5, perhaps 10 years, these old radios will be incredibly expensive. Currently the prices are rediculously low but that is about to change. Not compared to what they used to be in the '70s, '80s and very early '90s. That was a "golden age", in a way. 'Nobody' wanted tube stuff. You could get all kinds of gear and parts at hamfests for a song. Examples: - Working SX-101A in good condition - $35 - Very clean, almost mint working Viking 2 - $35 - Viking Valiant that needed the VFO dial coupling replaced, otherwise working and good shape: $25 - Unmodified clean ARC-5s - None more than $10. Often a whole batch for $10. - Unmodified clean working BC-342-N - $2 (Not a typo - two dollars) - QSTs back to pre-war: Dollar a year - Receiving and small transmitting tubes - $1 each NOS, less for used - I-177 or Hickok 6000 tube tester with book - $10 - 75A-4 receiver, VGC, working, with all mech filters, reduction knob, book, spare tubes, just aligned - $250 I could go on and on but you get the idea. I didn't get all of these, but I saw all of them at various 'fests within 2 hours of Philadelphia. Current prices are low because as hams age and go to the QSO party in the sky, their prized radios are being dumped on the market, primarily eBay. That was going on 20 years ago, too, only it was at the 'fests. If BPL doesn't kill HF and I don't think it will, not because we will defeat it but because cable, DSL, fibre to the home, sat, and Gen-3.5 cell fones will crush the interest in BPL, I hope you are right! the proposed no-code Generals and the almost no-exam entry HF licensees will double and triple the interest in Ham Radio. Maybe, but I doubt it. The requirements for a ham license have been dropping since 1975. They were radically reduced (both written and code) again in 2000, but we have not seen lots more new hams. There are a bunch of reasons, but I'll name just three: 1) Antenna restrictions 2) Free time doesn't come in big blocks for a lot of folks 3) You are looking at it. When that happens, everything Ham Radio, especially the historic radios that have "class" will soar in value. That started 10+ years ago. Even if that isn't a factor, the weird, useless stuff that people collect, pottery, knick-knacks, wood furniture, carvings, Hummels, and so on, if an HT-32B appreciates as much as that stuff, it would be worth tens of thousands of dollars. But it won't because the market for an HT-32B is far smaller. Maybe that won't happen but when I can buy a 1960's tube radio for a couple hundred dollars, it seems like a bargain. Especially when that radio originally cost two or three times that much. Even more when you adjust for inflation. A 75A-4 in 1959 cost about $700 - back when $5000 a year was a really good middle-class income. whatever. Tell me your stories from the die-off. Just did. And if you want to see what ham kitbuilding has become, check out Elecraft. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Signal/One devolved into a criminal operation.
I never heard about this. Can you elaborate? 73, John - K6QQ |
On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 23:44:17 UTC, "John Moriarity"
wrote: Signal/One devolved into a criminal operation. I never heard about this. Can you elaborate? Two years ago, I was admiring a boatanchor at a Northern Maryland Hamfest. Some folk got to talking about Signal/One and a large, angry fellow started in on XXXX, that S.O.B., if I ever catch him.... The last incarnation of S/1 was as a rebuilder of ICOM IC-781's, something about software, filters, the military, or some such. That fellow had sent his 781 to S/1 along with 6, 8? thousand dollars. He believes that S/1 sold his radio to someone else, mail fraud, grand theft, conspiracy to defraud. Donno what actually happened but I've heard from others that "something wicked" happened to Signal/One at the end. Based on multiple reports, I believe that S/1 did turn criminal. Too bad. I have a mild interest in S/1. Towards the end of my first phase of interest, S/1 was advertising heavily. I used to hear contest stations clip off, "Signal/One Alpha", one word, real fast. It was out of my price range. 30 years later, I bought a "guarenteed dead" CX7A off ebay. I've got it working on receive and am gathering parts to bring the transmitter back to life. It might be beyond my ability to repair. de ah6gi/4 |
Based on multiple reports, I believe that S/1 did turn criminal.
Thanks for the info. It might be beyond my ability to repair. I doubt it. Good luck with the project. 73, John - K6QQ |
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 20:28:27 -0400, Chuck Harris
wrote: Michael Black wrote: Chuck Harris ) writes: All because Schlumberger had to get rid of the kit and computer division to avoid an antitrust problem when they bought Fairchild. -Chuck Harris That sounds a bit garbled. It isn't, though. Wasn't Schlumberger out of the picture a lot earlier? Wasn't it Zenith that bought Heath, in the late seventies or early eighties, leading to a period when pre-assembled Heath computers were sold as Zenith's? Schlumberger was/is a conglomerate corporation that is composed of a bunch of dissimilar companies that they bought up and held... much like what IBM, GE and Honeywell do. Schlumberger wanted to get into the semiconducter manufacturing business, so they were looking for a manufacturing plant to buy... Fairchild was up for sale. The FTC strongly suggested to Schlumberger that if they bought Fairchild they MIGHT be taken to court for antitrust violations. The reason for this is Heath was one of Fairchild's major customers. The FTC of that time didn't like anything that was vertical in that way. So, Schlumberger went looking for a buyer for Heath/Zenith, and that buyer was a French company called Group Bull. Group Bull wanted to enter the personal computer market in the worst way, so when they saw that Heath/Zenith, a semi major player in the personal computer and data entry terminal business was up for sale, they jumped. Bull never had any interest in the Heath side of the business, so at the first possible opportunity, they pulled the plug. Heath was set off on their own. With no money, no manufacturing capability, and did I mention no money? What you say about the decline of the kit business is mostly true, but I firmly believe that if FTC hadn't put their nose into the business, and caused Group Bull to buy Heath/Zenith, there would still be a kit company. -Chuck Harris For a more complete discussion of the life of Heathkit, read: "Heathkit, A Guide To The Amateur Radio Products," by Penson. Just curious -- I seem to recall a line of stuff called Heathkit Malm-Enke. Does anyone remember what that was about? Or is my cathode getting less cath? |
On 1 Jul 2004 06:42:36 -0700, (N2EY) wrote:
"No Spam " No wrote in message news:ifgU75G3LLdo-pn2-6dc5RepOHFeN@localhost... On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:31:34 UTC, (Michael Black) wrote: And I think it was other issues that got Heath out of the kit business. there was a period when they were selling to a wide range of the public. ... Michael VE2BVW All reasonable points but I'm interested in what people observed happening, not their interpretation of why it happened. You make good points and are welcome to expand on them but I wonder how the die-off appeared to folk who saw it happening. Here's what I saw: Byt the mid-1960s there was a wide selection of US-made ham gear, new, kit and used. Surplus was still all over the place and dirt cheap. If you knew where to look for parts, homebrewing could be done easily. Heath stuff was OK but not in the same league as Drake or Collins. Drake was the poor man's Collins, Heath was the poor man's Drake. Swan was in there someplace but opinions varied widely on it, and no serious contester or DXer used Swan stuff. Hammarlund, Hallicrafters and National were still in business but not nearly so popular as Collins/Drake/Heath/Swan There were a few Japanese imported rigs, but they were generally considered to be inferior. Some were disguised - most Lafayeete stuff was "imported", and the popular Henry 'Tempo One' was actually a rebadged Yaesu FT-200. All this may seem like BA nirvana but there was one big problem: Very few rigs did everything well. What I mean is that most rigs lacked basic features that we take for granted today. Consider the SB-100 - nice SSB rig, 100W, 80-10. Pretty good on SSB. But it had no provision for a sharp CW filter, no RIT, and no AGC off/slow/fast choice. No processor or noise blanker, either. The later SB-101 and -102 added the sharp filter option but kept the other problems. Now if you spent the money for an SB-300/400 pair, you could have a sharp CW filter and AGC selection, plus independent control of transmit and receive freq. But no transceive-with-RIT, no processor, no noise blanker, and you had two boxes and their interconnecting cables. Similar problems dogged almost all other makes and models. There was always something left out that could have been easily incorporated, but wasn't in the designer's vision. Most of the ham gear outfits were not as big as we hams like to think. In the case of Collins, ham gear was a sideline that existed in large part because Art Collins wanted it that way. Heath sold far more non-ham kits - we were just one division. Most of the big names were still being run by their founders. These folks were getting on in years by the 1960s. Then in the '70s 'serious' Japanese ham gear began to appear. Yaesu's FT-101 and the Kenwood TS-520 families showed up with lots of desired features all in one box, at a reasonable price. They were almost all solidstate, too. What American-made setup of the time could compete with a TS-520S? It was a 100W transceiver that covered 160-10 plus WWV. Optional CW filter, DC supply and external VFO. AGC switch, processor, fan for the finals, RIT, etc., etc. All in one receiver-sized box. Heath and Drake at least tried to compete. But the Japanese had the advantage of a head start, plus a favorable exchange rate and cheaper labor. Heath had the double whammy that their designs could not require serious test gear for alignment. The result was that the hams who bough new gear bought so much Japanese-made and so little American made that the bottom fell out. By the way, the old Heath Tube-Audio junque commands a premium from the audio-nuts. I don't know why. It's not like -cough-cough- tube SSB transceivers. Three reasons: 1) It's hollowstate 2) It sounds pretty good as-is, and even better with a few mods. 3) It is well documented and easy to modify. A word about tube audio vice tube (boatanchor) radio. The audio nuts say that tube audio is superior, produces better sound. I could give you a pile of reasons for that, but it all comes down to one thing: What constitutes "better sound" is purely subjective. Generally tube SSB/CW types don't claim that. I have tube radios because they are inexpensive and I can fix them. Solid state radios could be just as maintainable but the manufacturers make the parts too small for me to work on. My SB-104A and SB-303 are really tube style radios (except for the 104A's digital readout), mostly big, cheap common parts. They're also 30 years old. When I built my HW-2036, the parts looked tiny. Now they look huge. It wasn't just the economics of kits, the Hallicrafters, National, etc were done in by something else. They did not/could not keep up with the competition. In the 1960's, during the ramp up to Incentive Licensing, Wayne Green was blustering and pounding the table about how Japan, which was toying with both no-code and a low-barrier licenses, would produce millions of engineers and technicians, Their skills would design and build products that would dominate ham radio and eventually electronics. Wayne was and is full of it. Japan has had no-code-test ham radio since 1952, when their government took over the licensing from the occupation government. They got away with it because of some creative interpretation of the treaty. They have never had "low barrier" licenses - their written tests are and were quite involved. Licensing beyond the 4th class required code tests in both International Morse and Katakana. While other factors contributed to the die-off, there is no question that Wayne called it exactly right. I disagree. Remember in the 1960's, there was essentially no Japanese amateur radio gear imported, except for that mechanical key and maybe code practice oscillators.. Not true. Lafayette was importing ham/SWL receivers from Japan in the '50s. Allied did the same somewhat later. It probably wasn't until the early 1970's that Yaesu and Kenwood showed up. Now ICOM, Japan Radio, and others have the lions share of the market. What really happened was that Japan was devastated by WW2, but began a longterm process of rebuilding everything. It took some years before they got to niche things like ham gear. Post WW2 Japan did not get involved in big military spending, a space program, or foreign entanglements. Their focus was on rebuilding their country and becoming a world economic and industrial power. Once the basic industries and infrastructure were rebuilt, they focused on specific areas like consumer electronics because such items are relatively small and high-value. And because so much of their pre-1945 industry had been destroyed, everything was relatively new compared to US industry. What happened to Hammarlund? EF Johnson? Were there fire sales every year at Dayton? What happened to the last run of HQ-215's or the last batch of NC-270's. Did National ever make a solid state radio, other than the HRO-500? See above. Their managements reached retirement age and the required investments in new designs were not made. Some designs were simply not that good, too. Compare the NCL-2000 to the Drake L-4B or even the SB-220. The latter are more rugged, less fussy and use cheaper tubes. When they turned the lights out at Hallicrafters, were there a batch of SR-500's in a warehouse that took that last ride to Dayton? Did people see bins of bare chassis or front panels at the tailgate sales? Incomplete NCL-2000's? Some of that. Usually, however, the way it worked was that the last batch was sold off and then there were no more. I'm guessing that the die-off happened about 1970, give or take a few years. I didn't go to Dayton until around 1980 so I missed it. I also stopped reading the ham magazines between 1966 and almost 1980. The ads alone tell the story. Collins hung on the longest, I think, making the KWM-380 because it was part of the deal when Art sold the company. Ten Tec apeared in 1968 making little QRP rigs and just kept on growing. Look at the Orion... Signal One came and went, but was a factor in "paradigm shift" about ham rigs. By the by, I'm here because I have started collecting and restoring boat anchors. I believe these are valuable collectables and that in 5, perhaps 10 years, these old radios will be incredibly expensive. Currently the prices are rediculously low but that is about to change. Not compared to what they used to be in the '70s, '80s and very early '90s. That was a "golden age", in a way. 'Nobody' wanted tube stuff. You could get all kinds of gear and parts at hamfests for a song. Examples: - Working SX-101A in good condition - $35 - Very clean, almost mint working Viking 2 - $35 - Viking Valiant that needed the VFO dial coupling replaced, otherwise working and good shape: $25 - Unmodified clean ARC-5s - None more than $10. Often a whole batch for $10. - Unmodified clean working BC-342-N - $2 (Not a typo - two dollars) - QSTs back to pre-war: Dollar a year - Receiving and small transmitting tubes - $1 each NOS, less for used - I-177 or Hickok 6000 tube tester with book - $10 - 75A-4 receiver, VGC, working, with all mech filters, reduction knob, book, spare tubes, just aligned - $250 I could go on and on but you get the idea. I didn't get all of these, but I saw all of them at various 'fests within 2 hours of Philadelphia. Current prices are low because as hams age and go to the QSO party in the sky, their prized radios are being dumped on the market, primarily eBay. That was going on 20 years ago, too, only it was at the 'fests. If BPL doesn't kill HF and I don't think it will, not because we will defeat it but because cable, DSL, fibre to the home, sat, and Gen-3.5 cell fones will crush the interest in BPL, I hope you are right! the proposed no-code Generals and the almost no-exam entry HF licensees will double and triple the interest in Ham Radio. Maybe, but I doubt it. The requirements for a ham license have been dropping since 1975. They were radically reduced (both written and code) again in 2000, but we have not seen lots more new hams. There are a bunch of reasons, but I'll name just three: 1) Antenna restrictions 2) Free time doesn't come in big blocks for a lot of folks 3) You are looking at it. When that happens, everything Ham Radio, especially the historic radios that have "class" will soar in value. That started 10+ years ago. Even if that isn't a factor, the weird, useless stuff that people collect, pottery, knick-knacks, wood furniture, carvings, Hummels, and so on, if an HT-32B appreciates as much as that stuff, it would be worth tens of thousands of dollars. But it won't because the market for an HT-32B is far smaller. Maybe that won't happen but when I can buy a 1960's tube radio for a couple hundred dollars, it seems like a bargain. Especially when that radio originally cost two or three times that much. Even more when you adjust for inflation. A 75A-4 in 1959 cost about $700 - back when $5000 a year was a really good middle-class income. whatever. Tell me your stories from the die-off. Just did. And if you want to see what ham kitbuilding has become, check out Elecraft. 73 de Jim, N2EY Thanks Jim, Your response was well written. Wayne Green has gotten too much credit - mainly from his own self promotion. Incentive licensing hardly killed off Amatuer radio or the manufactorers of the time. Increased competition from the Japanese probably was the largest factor in the die off of the old American companies. I've got a Swan/Cubic Astro-150A. It's totally synthesized, solid state using military construction, with plug in pcb's, full QSK, built in CW filter, etc, etc. Its design date from around 1978. Yet, they were only able to sell less than 1000 of them. Why? It cost $999 at a time when the Yaesu FT101 listed at only $699. In my opinion, the Astro-150 is a much better rig, but at the time Amateurs voted with their wallets. When the Drake TR7 was introduced, it was a $1400 rig that didn't include things like a speech processor or standard noise blanker when equivalent rigs from the Japanese makers were available for less than $1000. The story of ham radio makes is no different than the story of U.S. TV makers. There are no TV's being made in the USA by companies that are based in the USA. Likewise, no VCR's, no CD players etc, etc are being made by USA owned companies. Doug/WA1TUT |
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 21:31:54 UTC, Doug wrote:
On 1 Jul 2004 06:42:36 -0700, (N2EY) wrote: Wayne was and is full of it. Even if that isn't a factor, the weird, useless stuff that people collect, pottery, knick-knacks, wood furniture, carvings, Hummels, and so on, if an HT-32B appreciates as much as that stuff, it would be worth tens of thousands of dollars. But it won't because the market for an HT-32B is far smaller. I think most "collectors" only collect what the appraisers and antique sales people tell them to collect. Watch a few episodes of the antique shows on PBS. That junque is genuinely weird. Compare it to a fine HQ-150 or a Johnson Valiant. Wayne Green has gotten too much credit - mainly from his own self promotion. Incentive licensing hardly killed off Amatuer radio or the manufactorers of the time. In the early 1960's, Wayne predicted that there would be lots of Japanese hams. When I got on 15 meters as a novice. I was running a DX-60 with one 15 meter novice crystal and a ZL-special. I used to work pile ups of JA stations all running 10 watts or some other strangely low power. It suggested to me that they had an entry license, perhaps comparable to our Novice that gave them 10 or maybe it was 15 watts of CW. I figured that Wayne was right and that the same "hook" that got me fiddling with antennas, peering into the chassis of my SX-101A trying to get a little more ooomph out of it, got them too. I ended up an assembly language and PL/I programmer doing MVS internals, telecommunications using TCAM, TSO internals. Later when Japanese electronics took over, I figured that the same fellows who I worked on 15 meters were now electrical engineers. That was what Wayne predicted in his rambling editorials in 73 magazine. |
Doug wrote in message . ..
On 1 Jul 2004 06:42:36 -0700, (N2EY) wrote: "No Spam " No wrote in message news:ifgU75G3LLdo-pn2-6dc5RepOHFeN@localhost... On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:31:34 UTC, (Michael Black) wrote: (big snip) Thanks Jim, Your response was well written. Thanks! Here's two more factors: Sometime in the very early 1960s, SSB became the dominant HF 'phone mode, replacing AM. The trend had started in the very late 1940s with ham SSB homebrewing became common and just kept going. One factor that really sparked the SSB boom was the introduction of the SSB transceiver, starting with the Collins KWM-1 and KWM-2, and the Cosmophone 35. These were "stations in a box" that needed only antenna, power supply, mike and speaker to go on the air. Their cost and size was less than a comparable transmitter-receiver pair, and the headache of zerobeating was eliminated - just tune in the other guy right, and you are automatically on his freq. HF SSB transceivers became popular very quickly, to the point that they rapidly replaced all "separates" except those that were matched-pair transceive capable, like the Drake 4 line and the S line. Before transceivers, there were several ham mfrs. who specialized in receivers or transmitters, or were best known for one or the other. E.F. Johnson made transmitters, National, Hammarlund and Hallicrafters primarily made receivers, etc. Those who made the transition to transceivers survived longer than those who didn't. Johnson, for example, developed the Avenger transceiver, which was way ahead of its time. Dual VFOs, all solid state except the finals and driver, compact, high performance - and it cost more to make than the list price of a KWM-2. A dozen or so prototypes were made, and a few survive. The main market for "separates" were Novices, who were limited to crystal control and 75W input until the mid 1970s. Some new mfrs. like Swan and SBE, started out making SSB transceivers from Day One. The shift to SSB and transceivers from AM and separates had a bunch of effects: - Homebrewing, steadily declining with increasing affluence and complexity of ham gear, took a big nosedive with the advent of the SSB transceiver. Few hams could homebrew the equivalent of an NCX-3 or SB-100 in their basements for less than the cost of those rigs, let alone the time. - The space and cost required for a ham shack shrank dramatically. This was particularly true if you wanted to operate high power 'phone. Look at the price and size of an SB-100/200 combo - for about $600 and the kitbuilding time you could have a 1200W PEP tabletop SSB/CW station. Compare that to, say, a Viking 500/NC-300 combo... - Old gear that could not do SSB transceive was sometimes kept, and other times rapidly unloaded as its resale value dropped. The value drop was driven by the limited market for such gear. - The number of new hams recruited from the SWL ranks dropped dramatically. In the AM days, folks with SW receivers would come across hams on AM. This would lead many SWLs to become hams. But most SWL receivers don't receive SSB well, if at all, and completely different tuning skills are needed. So most SWLs just tuned past the unintelligible ham SSB garble. This last was part of a much larger trend. From the reopening of US ham radio to about 1963, the number of US hams grew from about 60,000 on VJ day to about 250,000 in 1963 - quadrupling in just 17 years. Then the growth stalled and didn't pick up again until the early 1970s. This loss of growth happened fully 5 years before "incentive licensing", and it was only after the new rules were in place that the numbers picked up again, so IL can't be the cause. What *did* cause it we - changeover to SSB - competition from 27 MHz cb - drastic reduction of the places where a Conditional license could be issued - license and test fees - changes in society, particularly young people. Ham radio has always been kind of a "square" activity, and in the '60s such perceptions "turned off" a lot of young people. Wayne Green has gotten too much credit - mainly from his own self promotion. The rooster taking credit for the dawn. JA has had nocodetest ham licenses since 1952. They were on a rebuilding/industrial boom. They were investing in development and new tooling at a furious rate while US companies weren't. Favorable tax and exchange rates. Etc. Incentive licensing hardly killed off Amatuer radio or the manufactorers of the time. Agreed. Increased competition from the Japanese probably was the largest factor in the die off of the old American companies. Yep. I've got a Swan/Cubic Astro-150A. It's totally synthesized, solid state using military construction, with plug in pcb's, full QSK, built in CW filter, etc, etc. Its design date from around 1978. Yet, they were only able to sell less than 1000 of them. Why? It cost $999 at a time when the Yaesu FT101 listed at only $699. And a TS-520S was even less IIRC. In my opinion, the Astro-150 is a much better rig, but at the time Amateurs voted with their wallets. When the Drake TR7 was introduced, it was a $1400 rig that didn't include things like a speech processor or standard noise blanker when equivalent rigs from the Japanese makers were available for less than $1000. There's also the "line" aspect. Most US manufacturers of the time made just one "line" of ham gear - Drake had the 4 line, Collins had the S-line, Heath had the SB line, etc. Many did not offer VHF/UHF gear, or the offerings were limited. But very early on the Japanese produced multiple lines, such as the TS-520S and TS-820S, and a whole line of VHF/UHF stuff. A ham could have an "all-Kenwood" (or Yaesu, or Icom) station that covered 160 through 440. Few US manufacturers offered such variety. The story of ham radio makes is no different than the story of U.S. TV makers. There are no TV's being made in the USA by companies that are based in the USA. Likewise, no VCR's, no CD players etc, etc are being made by USA owned companies. Sadly true. At least in ham gear we have a choice: Ten Tec and Elecraft, to name just two. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"No Spam " No wrote in message ...
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 21:31:54 UTC, Doug wrote: On 1 Jul 2004 06:42:36 -0700, (N2EY) wrote: Wayne was and is full of it. Even if that isn't a factor, the weird, useless stuff that people collect, pottery, knick-knacks, wood furniture, carvings, Hummels, and so on, if an HT-32B appreciates as much as that stuff, it would be worth tens of thousands of dollars. But it won't because the market for an HT-32B is far smaller. I think most "collectors" only collect what the appraisers and antique sales people tell them to collect. That's true in some cases, not true in others. But it's certainly a valid point that at least *some* collectors are more interested in the fact that something is worth $X or is considered "rare", rather than its intrinsic value. IOW, would they still like it if it was worth almost nothing? Watch a few episodes of the antique shows on PBS. That junque is genuinely weird. I love that show. Besides the *smokin'* new host, the incredible prices attached to some things are always a source of amazement. I mean - a table lamp made in 1906 that's worth $120,000? A small table from the early 19th century worth almost $500,000? Compare it to a fine HQ-150 or a Johnson Valiant. One *big* difference is that we'd get the HQ-150 or Valiant and put them on the air, not just look at them. In fact, I find it's starting to work the other way with me. One thing I used to love about BA'ing was getting some rig or other for a low low price, fixing it up, putting it on the air, having a ball with it and then eventually passing it on to somebody else. And if I blew something up, or couldn't fix it, no big loss. But when they are fetching prices higher than new, it's a whole new ball game. Wayne Green has gotten too much credit - mainly from his own self promotion. Incentive licensing hardly killed off Amatuer radio or the manufactorers of the time. In the early 1960's, Wayne predicted that there would be lots of Japanese hams. There already *were* lots of JA hams back then. When I got on 15 meters as a novice. I was running a DX-60 with one 15 meter novice crystal and a ZL-special. I used to work pile ups of JA stations all running 10 watts or some other strangely low power. It suggested to me that they had an entry license, perhaps comparable to our Novice that gave them 10 or maybe it was 15 watts of CW. They've had four classes of license for years, with the entry class having no code test. Entry class is QRP but allows a variety of HF modes. They used a twisted interpretation of the treaty to do it. In years gone by, many countries required more than passing tests for a license upgrade. In some cases, construction of receivers and/or transmitters of a given level of complexity was required, and an oral examination given on how the set worked. Another element was requirement of a certain number of stations heard/worked with the constructed equipment. The old USSR was a big one for that sort of thing. JA may have done it, too. I figured that Wayne was right and that the same "hook" that got me fiddling with antennas, peering into the chassis of my SX-101A trying to get a little more ooomph out of it, got them too. The trend was clear early on. Building up the nation's technical and manufacturing base was a national priority in Japan from VJ day forward. Interesting thing about 'prophets' like W2NSD - people remember the few times when they were right but forget the many many times when they were not. I ended up an assembly language and PL/I programmer doing MVS internals, telecommunications using TCAM, TSO internals. Later when Japanese electronics took over, I figured that the same fellows who I worked on 15 meters were now electrical engineers. That was what Wayne predicted in his rambling editorials in 73 magazine. Maybe. Ham radio has led many of us to engineering careers, me included. But consider this: Since 1995 the number of Japanese ham stations has been in free fall. Google up AH0A's website - interesting numbers. Don't be fooled by the enormous number of JA *operator* licenses - their operator licenses never expire, so what you see under operator license totals are the total number of hams that have been licensed in Japan since 1952. One ham can have as many as four operator licenses. The important number is the number of *station* licenses, which cost a fee and have to be renewed each year. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
N2EY ) writes:
I figured that Wayne was right and that the same "hook" that got me fiddling with antennas, peering into the chassis of my SX-101A trying to get a little more ooomph out of it, got them too. The trend was clear early on. Building up the nation's technical and manufacturing base was a national priority in Japan from VJ day forward. Interesting thing about 'prophets' like W2NSD - people remember the few times when they were right but forget the many many times when they were not. And he's had more time after the fact to write about it than he did to talk about it before incentive licensing came into being. While it's been some time since I've gone through them, I read and reread back issues of 73. I don't recall any mention of Japan in the sixties. Indeed, Japan seemed to be a non-entity at the time. They were starting to make inroads, likely a lot of the accessories were increasingly "made in Japan", but as you already mentioned, they were often sold with a US name on it. "Made in Japan" still seemed to be a fairly derogative term, denoting sloppy design and/or workmanship. But then when Japanese companies were the major players, say from the mid to late seventies, of course Wayne wrote about Japan. Saying after the fact that the Japanese rules made for such growth, in hams and their ham industry, is a lot different from seeing it (or not seeing it) before it had happened. The same can be said about incentive licensing. I have no doubt that Wayne disliked incentive licensing, but I'm not so sure he foresaw what would happen. I don't think he cared. He didn't want to lose frequencies, and that was his main opposition. But after the fact, he could find all kinds of things that happened, whether or not they were a result, and blame them on incentive licensing, and of course say "I told you so". I don't have the animosity towards Wayne that many seem to have. I liked 73 when it was in its prime, and that was a serious contribition to amateur radio. But you can indeed see his "after the fact" predictions. He often stretches things to fit his scenario. One really has to go back and read his editorials from the sixties in order to define how much of he foresaw, and what it was he foresaw. His later editorials are much more vivid (and were repeated many times), but that does not mean they were what he said in the sixties. Michael VE2BVW |
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Recently, I've heard two stories from that era, one is that at the end of the war, they stacked up KWM-2's and R-390As, and ran tanks over them. I _SAW_ the folks at the Osan AB MARS shack tossing R-390s or R-390As into a dumpster in October 1969, when I was outprocessing at the end of a TDY. They told me I could have as many as I wanted, but my hold baggage was on its way back to Camp Drake already. The other story is that there are cache's in Vietnam with KWM-2s wrapped in plastic and buried. A friend was in charge of the Army program to teach ARVN troops to operate KWM-2 rigs; I'll ask him what he knows about that. I don't know if either story is true. They're both consonant with what I saw. I have a nice collection of boat anchors and hope to restore them to their glory, to be used, not to sit on the shelf, as "shelf queens". I'm trying to get a collection of R-390As going again. It's ... interesting. I don't have a lot of time to work on the radios. I'm trying to earn enough money to retire some time. BTDTGTTS. Didn't like it; I'm back where I retired, because I don't like sitting still. I got my novice license at 15 and passed the general at 16. Two other guys and I took the bus down the the FCC because none of us had a driver's license. We all passed. I still remember the snippits of the code, it was a ship talking to the harbor. One minute solid out of five, 13 consecutive words. That was the rule. I don't get this new style exam. Second Phone at 16, Novice at 17. -- Mike Andrews Tired old sysadmin |
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"No Spam " No wrote in message news:ifgU75G3LLdo-pn2-9xjQwCynTYJD@localhost...
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:35:05 UTC, (Michael Black) wrote: When did Incentive Licensing take effect? 1967: Advanced reopened, 2 year Novice Nov. 22, 1968: First reduction in bandspace (CW/data and 'phone) for Generals and Advanceds Nov. 22, 1969: Second reduction in bandspace (phone only)for Generals and Advanceds. Note that in those days the 30, 17 and 12 meter ham bands did not exist, and that the 'phone parts of 80, 40, 20 and 15 were narrower than today. Originally the Extra-only CW/data subbands were supposed to be 50 kHz in the second reduction but this was eliminated by FCC shortly before it was supposed to have taken effect. I thought I took the advanced about 1965 but maybe not. Maybe it was later. 1967 wasn't that much later. I "thought" Wayne Green in the early 60's predictied the collapse of the U.S. electronics industry, which was invincible at that time. Given the outcome, and not to take anything away from Ten Tec and Elecraft, Drake if they're still in business, but the U.S. Electronics industry, at least in the HF RF side, has died off. Consumer stuff anyway. I was in high school in the early 1960's. While the Japanese made a few small in-roads in consumer electronics, the U.S. owned Ham Radio. The U.S. stuff was QUALITY. I still remember the excitement of the HRO-500, the SBE-33, and seeing the pictures of the FPM-200 in the magazines. Yep - but in reality they were not as good as expected. The FPM-200 never made it to market, IIRC. The proprietor of the local radio shop said that the S-Lines and KWM-2s were going to Vietnam so a lot of guys were going for Drake, "the DX-er's like Drake." Recently, I've heard two stories from that era, one is that at the end of the war, they stacked up KWM-2's and R-390As, and ran tanks over them. The other story is that there are cache's in Vietnam with KWM-2s wrapped in plastic and buried. I don't know if either story is true. I don't either but I know the following story *is* true: Pallets of used R-390As were stacked ~10 feet high and left out in the weather at a supply location. I saw the picture and it was claimed to be genuine. These were units that needed work but were mostly complete. The stack was at least 25 x 25 feet, and the picture didn't include the whole pile. Even as parts units, their value to hams is staggering. Dunno if there were any Helena Rubenstein '390As in there.... I got my novice license at 15 and passed the general at 16. Two other guys and I took the bus down the the FCC because none of us had a driver's license. We all passed. I still remember the snippits of the code, it was a ship talking to the harbor. One minute solid out of five, 13 consecutive words. That was the rule. I don't get this new style exam. I got the Novice at 13 (1967), Tech and Advanced at 14 (1968), Extra at 16 (1970). That was back when you had to wait two years as a General or above for the Extra. Someone help me remember. Didn't the FCC give out Techs as a consolation prize if you only got five words in sequence? Yes. After 1954 the Tech was a by-mail license, like the Novice. But if you showed up at the FCC office and missed 13 per, but they could find five legible words, you could do the Tech/General written and get a Technician. Then you'd only have to come back for the 13 wpm code. Saved a little FCC time and paperwork, I think. Also made it easier for the ham because you could focus entirely on the code test. I know 'cause that's what happened to me first time. Examiner couldn't read my writing well enough to find 65 consecutive legible characters but he did find 25. I got a Tech, went home and taught myself to block print rather than the stupid "Palmer method" longhand script, and passed it after the 30 day retest wait was up. After I did, the examiner said "Kid, why not try the Advanced while you're here?" Though I had not studied for it, a 14 year old kid did not say no to The Man, so I tried and passed. Or was it, if you failed the 13, they gave you a shot at a 5 WPM tape and then let you take the general written. Or did people show up and ask to take the Tech? Normally Tech was by-mail. Good times. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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