I have been working at a job this summer where I drive around a lot in
my car, which gives me lots of time to listen to classic rock radio.
(That's pretty much all there is, aside from a couple of country
stations, and NPR, and one AM station which simulcasts Rush Limbaugh
and Limbaugh Wannabes on several different AM frequencies.) There
seems to be a rather limited canon of songs which these stations play.
Does anyone know who drew up the original list, and does anyone know
how few songs are on the list?

I have a few observations about the list. It does seem to be limited
to acts and songs which charted high originally--- which means that
influential acts who have been popular for a long time but had few if
any
high-charting hits are excluded (e.g., the Ramones, Talking Heads, the
Clash,
the Cure, Iggy Pop, Bob Marley, etc.) But lots of acts and songs who
did chart high are also excluded.

But even given that limitation, the choice of songs is odd. For
example, Eric Clapton was a member of several notable bands---Cream,
Derek and the Dominoes, and Blind Faith--- but all of those bands are
absent (even Derek and the Dominoes who featured Duane Allman.) Only
his solo works are included amongst the half-dozen or so Clapton songs
in the canon. Three of Clapton's cnonical songs are inferior cover
versions--- i.e. his own solo version of Derek and the Dominoes'
"Layla," his cover of the Beatles' "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and
his cover version of Bob Marley's "I Shot the Sherrif." (Clapton's
cover versions are not terrible, but they are rather bland compared to
the originals, which are preferable both from a musical and
pop-hookiness standpoint. And the Beatles cover is less frequently
repeated than the others, even though he in fact played on the
original...)

The pop-radio canon is full of inferior cover versions--- Elton John's
"Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," Aerosmith's "Come Together", and
Manfred Mann's "Blinded by the Light" and "Spirit in the Night."
(None of those four cover versions are horrible, but the Beatles and
Springsteen originals are better, and hookier, and more popular!) In
fact, another amusing example of the inferior cover version is Elton
John's song "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me," which is played not in
its original version but in a live version by George Michael where
Elton John makes a guest appearance on the last chorus!

To get back to Clapton's few songs, I see that there is no attempt to
pander to 2004 sensibilities. When Clapton recorded the song
"Cocaine", cocaine use was socially acceptable. It isn't acceptable
today, and yet the song is played over and over and over again. Elton
John's "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" is another example: in addition
to not being one of Lennon and McCartney's greatest songs, it is about
LSD, and the Beatles version is better and more popular. And yet,
this is one of the few hundred tracks in the canon. Weird....

Comments, anyone?

Just a short one : I've been looking at the playlist for the classic
rock
station here on the Oregon Coast ... I've spent literally hours in the
air-room
watching the list, since I'm a candidate to possibly take over the
show in the
future, also up for 'traffic assistant' on the 'ofice' side of the
station ...
I've noticed the oddness of the list - for example the entire Eagles
are fair
game for the station, but I've only heard a couple of the
lesser-known, and yes, tamer songs played too ...
There are lists on the 'Net that list the 'acceptable' bands, which
DOES
include the Rolling Stones, and I never hear any of those either )
I think it's like 'soft rock', or in this case, 'soft classic/oldies'
that
is bold from a programmer view, but tame for those of us who remember
the
entire albums and the really radical cuts almost never aired, even
then ...
Of course, I would say I'd change the automated play-list if I were
the on-air
host, but that may not happen here ... more likely I'll be on the tech
side, or
production/announcing if at all. I'm currently looking for another job
locally,
and having met everyone at the local stations, including 'Mr. Big', I
think
looking elsewhere for work, and doing independent
commercials/production and
recording is my future anyway ...
If you are someone who might have a hand in a playlist at a
station(s) in the
future, consider looking on the 'Net, compile a list of 'acceptable'
classic
rock artists, then look for the most obscure and radical album cuts
you can
find .. I remember the Doors are listed too ! Give me a couple days
and I'll
cause a commotion with 'acceptable' artists, without crazy
announcements and
production effects )
It's all there - just do the research ... If a station isn't playing
what YOU
want to hear, contact them .. that simple

good luck

Joe Altieri




(Bill Reich) wrote in message ...
(Timothy Horrigan) wrote in message ...
I have been working at a job this summer where I drive around a lot in
my car, which gives me lots of time to listen to classic rock radio.
(That's pretty much all there is, aside from a couple of country
stations, and NPR, and one AM station which simulcasts Rush Limbaugh
and Limbaugh Wannabes on several different AM frequencies.) There
seems to be a rather limited canon of songs which these stations play.
Does anyone know who drew up the original list, and does anyone know
how few songs are on the list?

I have a few observations about the list. It does seem to be limited
to acts and songs which charted high originally--- which means that
influential acts who have been popular for a long time but had few if
any
high-charting hits are excluded (e.g., the Ramones, Talking Heads, the
Clash,
the Cure, Iggy Pop, Bob Marley, etc.) But lots of acts and songs who
did chart high are also excluded.

But even given that limitation, the choice of songs is odd. For
example, Eric Clapton was a member of several notable bands---Cream,
Derek and the Dominoes, and Blind Faith--- but all of those bands are
absent (even Derek and the Dominoes who featured Duane Allman.) Only
his solo works are included amongst the half-dozen or so Clapton songs
in the canon. Three of Clapton's cnonical songs are inferior cover
versions--- i.e. his own solo version of Derek and the Dominoes'
"Layla," his cover of the Beatles' "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and
his cover version of Bob Marley's "I Shot the Sherrif." (Clapton's
cover versions are not terrible, but they are rather bland compared to
the originals, which are preferable both from a musical and
pop-hookiness standpoint. And the Beatles cover is less frequently
repeated than the others, even though he in fact played on the
original...)

The pop-radio canon is full of inferior cover versions--- Elton John's
"Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," Aerosmith's "Come Together", and
Manfred Mann's "Blinded by the Light" and "Spirit in the Night."
(None of those four cover versions are horrible, but the Beatles and
Springsteen originals are better, and hookier, and more popular!) In
fact, another amusing example of the inferior cover version is Elton
John's song "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me," which is played not in
its original version but in a live version by George Michael where
Elton John makes a guest appearance on the last chorus!

To get back to Clapton's few songs, I see that there is no attempt to
pander to 2004 sensibilities. When Clapton recorded the song
"Cocaine", cocaine use was socially acceptable. It isn't acceptable
today, and yet the song is played over and over and over again. Elton
John's "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" is another example: in addition
to not being one of Lennon and McCartney's greatest songs, it is about
LSD, and the Beatles version is better and more popular. And yet,
this is one of the few hundred tracks in the canon. Weird....

Comments, anyone?

One of my favorite singers recorded a song by one of my favorite
songwriters. It became a monster pop hit, which was not common for him
or for her. It was not one of his very best songs and it is not a song
especially suited to her strengths, although it is a very good song
and she sang it very well.

However, it is MUCH more likely that you will hear Janis sing "Bobby
McGee" than anything else she ever did. Even though there are
certainly songs that she did better and songs that were closer to her
heart. "Turtle Blues" may be a my favorite but there are many others.

It is much more likely, except on a country station, that you will
hear a Kris Kristofferson song that isn't "Me and Bobby McGee," even
though he wrote many other great songs and "Sunday Morning Coming
Down" makes him a cultural treasure.

Odd, isn't it?

Will in New Haven

Just a short one : I've been looking at the playlist for the classic
rock
station here on the Oregon Coast ... I've spent literally hours in the
air-room
watching the list, since I'm a candidate to possibly take over the
show in the
future, also up for 'traffic assistant' on the 'ofice' side of the
station ...
I've noticed the oddness of the list - for example the entire Eagles
are fair
game for the station, but I've only heard a couple of the
lesser-known, and yes, tamer songs played too ...
There are lists on the 'Net that list the 'acceptable' bands, which
DOES
include the Rolling Stones, and I never hear any of those either )
I think it's like 'soft rock', or in this case, 'soft classic/oldies'
that
is bold from a programmer view, but tame for those of us who remember
the
entire albums and the really radical cuts almost never aired, even
then ...
Of course, I would say I'd change the automated play-list if I were
the on-air
host, but that may not happen here ... more likely I'll be on the tech
side, or
production/announcing if at all. I'm currently looking for another job
locally,
and having met everyone at the local stations, including 'Mr. Big', I
think
looking elsewhere for work, and doing independent
commercials/production and
recording is my future anyway ...
If you are someone who might have a hand in a playlist at a
station(s) in the
future, consider looking on the 'Net, compile a list of 'acceptable'
classic
rock artists, then look for the most obscure and radical album cuts
you can
find .. I remember the Doors are listed too ! Give me a couple days
and I'll
cause a commotion with 'acceptable' artists, without crazy
announcements and
production effects )
It's all there - just do the research ... If a station isn't playing
what YOU
want to hear, contact them .. that simple

good luck

Joe Altieri




(Bill Reich) wrote in message ...
(Timothy Horrigan) wrote in message ...
I have been working at a job this summer where I drive around a lot in
my car, which gives me lots of time to listen to classic rock radio.
(That's pretty much all there is, aside from a couple of country
stations, and NPR, and one AM station which simulcasts Rush Limbaugh
and Limbaugh Wannabes on several different AM frequencies.) There
seems to be a rather limited canon of songs which these stations play.
Does anyone know who drew up the original list, and does anyone know
how few songs are on the list?

I have a few observations about the list. It does seem to be limited
to acts and songs which charted high originally--- which means that
influential acts who have been popular for a long time but had few if
any
high-charting hits are excluded (e.g., the Ramones, Talking Heads, the
Clash,
the Cure, Iggy Pop, Bob Marley, etc.) But lots of acts and songs who
did chart high are also excluded.

But even given that limitation, the choice of songs is odd. For
example, Eric Clapton was a member of several notable bands---Cream,
Derek and the Dominoes, and Blind Faith--- but all of those bands are
absent (even Derek and the Dominoes who featured Duane Allman.) Only
his solo works are included amongst the half-dozen or so Clapton songs
in the canon. Three of Clapton's cnonical songs are inferior cover
versions--- i.e. his own solo version of Derek and the Dominoes'
"Layla," his cover of the Beatles' "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and
his cover version of Bob Marley's "I Shot the Sherrif." (Clapton's
cover versions are not terrible, but they are rather bland compared to
the originals, which are preferable both from a musical and
pop-hookiness standpoint. And the Beatles cover is less frequently
repeated than the others, even though he in fact played on the
original...)

The pop-radio canon is full of inferior cover versions--- Elton John's
"Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," Aerosmith's "Come Together", and
Manfred Mann's "Blinded by the Light" and "Spirit in the Night."
(None of those four cover versions are horrible, but the Beatles and
Springsteen originals are better, and hookier, and more popular!) In
fact, another amusing example of the inferior cover version is Elton
John's song "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me," which is played not in
its original version but in a live version by George Michael where
Elton John makes a guest appearance on the last chorus!

To get back to Clapton's few songs, I see that there is no attempt to
pander to 2004 sensibilities. When Clapton recorded the song
"Cocaine", cocaine use was socially acceptable. It isn't acceptable
today, and yet the song is played over and over and over again. Elton
John's "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" is another example: in addition
to not being one of Lennon and McCartney's greatest songs, it is about
LSD, and the Beatles version is better and more popular. And yet,
this is one of the few hundred tracks in the canon. Weird....

Comments, anyone?

One of my favorite singers recorded a song by one of my favorite
songwriters. It became a monster pop hit, which was not common for him
or for her. It was not one of his very best songs and it is not a song
especially suited to her strengths, although it is a very good song
and she sang it very well.

However, it is MUCH more likely that you will hear Janis sing "Bobby
McGee" than anything else she ever did. Even though there are
certainly songs that she did better and songs that were closer to her
heart. "Turtle Blues" may be a my favorite but there are many others.

It is much more likely, except on a country station, that you will
hear a Kris Kristofferson song that isn't "Me and Bobby McGee," even
though he wrote many other great songs and "Sunday Morning Coming
Down" makes him a cultural treasure.

Odd, isn't it?

Will in New Haven

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 04:14:22 +0000, Joe Altieri wrote:

Just a short one : I've been looking at the playlist for the classic rock
station here on the Oregon Coast ... I've spent literally hours in the
air-room
watching the list, since I'm a candidate to possibly take over the show in
the
future, also up for 'traffic assistant' on the 'ofice' side of the station
...
I've noticed the oddness of the list - for example the entire Eagles
are fair
game for the station, but I've only heard a couple of the lesser-known,
and yes, tamer songs played too ...
There are lists on the 'Net that list the 'acceptable' bands, which
DOES
include the Rolling Stones, and I never hear any of those either )
I think it's like 'soft rock', or in this case, 'soft classic/oldies'
that
is bold from a programmer view, but tame for those of us who remember the
entire albums and the really radical cuts almost never aired, even then
...
Of course, I would say I'd change the automated play-list if I were
the on-air
host, but that may not happen here ... more likely I'll be on the tech
side, or
production/announcing if at all. I'm currently looking for another job
locally,
and having met everyone at the local stations, including 'Mr. Big', I
think
looking elsewhere for work, and doing independent commercials/production
and
recording is my future anyway ...
If you are someone who might have a hand in a playlist at a
station(s) in the
future, consider looking on the 'Net, compile a list of 'acceptable'
classic
rock artists, then look for the most obscure and radical album cuts you
can
find .. I remember the Doors are listed too ! Give me a couple days and
I'll
cause a commotion with 'acceptable' artists, without crazy announcements
and
production effects )
It's all there - just do the research ... If a station isn't playing
what YOU
want to hear, contact them .. that simple

good luck

Joe Altieri


You did an excellent job of pointing out why radio programming today has
to be much more professional and research-driven than it used to be.

Back when today's "classic rock" recordings were still fairly current and
the format was called "album rock", most stations had some system for
identifying which album cuts were acceptable according to the station's
program and music directors; but individual jocks often had considerable
latitude in choosing just which cuts they played. For those who are
too young to remember, the microcomputer was still in its infancy back
then and AFAIK no stations were using computers to schedule music -- human
beings had to make decisions as they went along.

In those days a good jock knew the station's library intimately, knew the
audience nearly as well, and could find the right cut for any particular
moment; we even took requests! A mediocre jock knew most of the most
popular songs and artists, and seldom played anything else (except when
they heard another jock play something). A really bad jock had poor taste
in music (and little understanding of flow and tempo), played personal
favorites, and generally stunk up the station.

A youngster who grew up listening to the music his parents liked could be
a pretty goo classic rock jock. His twin who only listened to what the
other kids in the neighborhood liked would need the guidance and restraint
of a knowledgeable music director who uses scheduling software to
preselect everything.

But if I were still programming, I'd rather hire hire either fellow
oldtimers or jocks who have been in the market for several years, then
allow them as much playlist discretion as they can handle. Nothing
against young gypsies -- i was one myself, back in the day -- but nothing
beats having real live people who know both the music and the local
audience.

--
Walter Luffman Medina, TN USA
Amateur curmudgeon, equal opportunity annoyer

"BucketButt" wrote in message
...

But if I were still programming, I'd rather hire hire either fellow
oldtimers or jocks who have been in the market for several years, then
allow them as much playlist discretion as they can handle. Nothing
against young gypsies -- i was one myself, back in the day -- but nothing
beats having real live people who know both the music and the local
audience.

But, with rare exceptions, "DJ choice" programming ended with the
progressive stations of the late 60's. Except for, perhaps, KPIG, anyone
doing it is also losing in the ratings.

On 19 Aug 2004 14:29:43 GMT, BucketButt
wrote:

In those days a good jock knew the station's library intimately, knew the
audience nearly as well, and could find the right cut for any particular
moment; we even took requests! A mediocre jock knew most of the most
popular songs and artists, and seldom played anything else (except when
they heard another jock play something). A really bad jock had poor taste
in music (and little understanding of flow and tempo), played personal
favorites, and generally stunk up the station.

I guess that's the difference between being a DISK JOCKEY and an AIR
PERSONALITY.

To be honest (albeit blunt), most guys on the rock stations in 'those
days' were terrible as air personalities. Of course, there were
exceptions like Tom Donahue and B. Mitchell Reed (both of whom came
from a Top 40 background where they learned to be GREAT air performers
BEFORE they learned music).

IMHO, selecting music does not really take any talent. It takes
KNOWLEDGE and knowledge can be learned. You can't learn talent. You
either have it or you don't. How many Dan Ingram's, Robert W.
Morgan's, Dr. Don Rose's, etc. are there? Not too many as far as I
know.

Give me an air personality over a disk jockey ANY DAY! You can train
an air personality to pick music. You can't train someone with little
or no 'God-given' talent to be talented.

Just my .02.

J.J.