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Frank Dresser October 28th 04 07:21 PM


"Bob Haberkost" wrote in message
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"Bob Haberkost" wrote in message
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"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
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"Fuller Wrath" wrote in message
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: "Fuller Wrath" wrote in message
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Here in Chicago, we just had an AM xband station go on the air a year

ago.
Other frequencies sound open. One street gang related pirate station

was
operating on an open FM frequency here. We also have a couple of

reletively
new low power UHF stations.


"Sound" open and being open are two different things. I've had this

didact before,
but the gist of it is that the channels that "sound" open are only to

allow that
channel to be allocated in other areas, which in the Class C area that

Chicago is in
may be far, far away. Putting an allocation on this "open" channel would

result in
interference to these far-flung operations, thus reducing their coverage

area to less
than what they're allocated to serve. Same goes for the pirate. If you

look at a
frequency search map, using the specified minimum distances to each

conflicting
allocation, you'll find that there is some apparent "white" areas as a

result of the
overlaps (or actually, the effort to make sure they don't overlap).


Yeah, but isn't that largely a matter of definition and policy? As I
understand, the FCC used to try to keep a 30 kHz spacing between stations in
the same market, now they'll go for 20 kHz. In my opinion, there are
already too damn many stations on the air, using my personal standard of
maximum allowable interference. But if the FCC doesn't much care about more
interference, they could pack more stations in.



Should the fairness doctrine apply in markets in which there are open
frequencies and channels?


No, because a licensee should do their part to represent all divergent

views.


I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying the fairnss doctrine should

not
apply in those markets?


I am not. Open channels (assuming that there are any, which certainly

isn't the case
in Chicago) mean that there are only a few possible voices that might

offer
diversity. But there's still a finite limit to how many voices there will

be. This
is different from printed matter or public oratory, where there is no

self-limiting
property in the exersize of one's free speech rights. With broadcasting,

the
existence of one station prevents the free speech rights of those other

"potential"
operations on the same channel, thus depriving these "others" of their

free speech
rights. Since the "others" don't have the opportunity, then neither

should the
operator of the facility which abridges the "others" of theirs.


Even if a broadcaster refuses to broadcast an opposing view on his station
or stations, he is only restricting one outlet for the opposing speech. So
what? The Soviet Union had an entirely controlled media. Every paper,
every broadcaster was owned by one monopoly. Yet some version of the truth
got around. Printed material from typewriters and photocopiers were handed
around. Phone calls were made. The Soviet media lies increased cynicism,
not indoctrination. Control of one station or one broadcast network would
be even less persuasive, especially if other outlets for opposing viewpoints
are available.



Satellite spectrum is, by definition, not broadcast spectrum....it's

just
a band that some operators choose to operate un-encrypted.
And subscription satellite is another animal altogether, like cable.


Right. And viewers/listeners don't really make the distinction between
cable and satellite and broadcasting anymore. If 90% of a person's TV
channels are uneffected by the fairness doctrine, does the fairness

doctrine
have any effect on the viewer?


Doesn't matter. People pay for subscription services. They get what they

pay for,
and if they don't like what they're hearing, they can cancel.

Broadcasting is
different. You can get conventional radio using devices which are readily

available,
require no real skills to install or use, and cost at least an order of

magnitude
less to acquire. For those who have satellite receivers, after having

made the
effort, if they think it's the same, then it is for them. But that

doesn't make it
so.


If people don't like what they hear on a broadcast, getting rid if it is
even easier than canceling. They just tune out.

I'm not sure I catch the reason why the fairness doctrine is necessary with
broadcast stations but not necessary with pay services. I don't think it
has to be a jurisdictional thing, as some Congressmen have proposed
extending decency standards to pay services and the internet.


Anyway, I can't think of any reason a satellite direct broadcast service
must be a subscription service. If satellite technology gets cheap enough,
the networks might well launch their own, advertiser supported satellites.
It's also easy enough to imagine the satellite receivers would be easily
affordable.

With cable systems, there's no practical distinction between cable channels
and broadcast channels.



If the fairness doctrine is really a good idea, shouldn't it effect

every
station a consumer gets?


As above. Broadcasting is different. The spectrum occupied is granted,

in trust, by
the people of the United States. Broadcasters should be held accountable

for serving
all those people. Whether they like it or not.


They do serve people, by entertaining them. That's what broadcasting is
good at. Broadcasting is a poor educational media. People who want to
actually learn something read about it. Or converse with someone
knowledgeable. Or, best yet, do it. I suppose broadcasting could be
whipped into a decent educational media with VCRs and tape recorders so
people could go back and forth until they actually understand what's being
discussed, but they hardly ever do. Broadcast information goes into the air
for an ephemeral moment, and then it's gone. Guys like Limbaugh and Hannity
are successful, not because they are informative, but because they're
entertaining.

I suppose there are a few doofuses who think they are getting some sort of
political education from the broadcast loudmouths who are putting on a show
within the limitations of broadcast media.



Just why is the fairness doctrine a good idea?


Because we've seen what happens when it's not in place.


The biggest difference I've noticed is there is less boring programming on
Sunday mornings.



Covering the country is not the same as getting gross impressions.
It's hard to say exactly how many people listen. But, as far as the

rate
goes, it used to be alot higher back about 20 years ago when stations

such
as WRNO and WINB were selling time. Since then, there must have been at
least fifteen SW brokered transmitters going on the air. It's a buyers
market now.


Well, then, that's not exactly what I'd call a good investment, is it?

Tell you
what....pay me $500 to spread to the world what you have to say. I

promise I'll tell
at least 15 people a day about your message for a month. But I won't tell

you how
many people I'll tell, and those that I'll tell may have no means by which

to acquire
the service or goods you're selling, at that. Deal?



It seems to work well for Brother Stair and Doctor Scott!

Frank Dresser



CAwriter October 28th 04 07:21 PM

I do live in a dense urban area, so some of the interference I'm
getting may be from various household appliances. It's very
intermittent.

And all the power lines in my immediate neighborhood are above ground,
including a power pole and lines about 30 feet from my back door.

But I'll stop worrying about BPL.

Thanks,


(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
CAwriter wrote:
Does BPL mean that I can just pack up my equipment? Or is it going to
be such a loser than I can ignore it?
I live a half mile east of a large power substation with high voltage
lines running north. Depending on the weather, I already have
occasional interference on all types of wireless reception and
transmission.


Presumably BPL is only going to be a last-mile sort of thing. So you will
not have to worry about the high voltage lines so much as the local lines in
your neighborhood.

The noise will be broadband, and will be pretty much everywhere.

Would satellite or digital radio be better to avoid the interference?


My personal feeling is that BPL will not be cost-effective anywhere and
that attempts to put it into place will not be very successful, so there
probably won't be too much to worry about. If you are outside of a
dense urban area, it probably won't be an issue in any case.

Nobody really knows. But in this age where a huge number of appliances
don't even come close to meeting Part 15 requirements, I think it's a wonder
that HF is as clean as it is.
--scott



Frank Dresser October 29th 04 12:37 AM


"Bob Haberkost" wrote in message
...

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"Bob Haberkost" wrote in message
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"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"John Figliozzi" wrote in message
...


The Fairness Doctrine worked well for decades in that it held

stations
to the one of the responsibilities required of them under the terms

of
their licenses--to air alternative points of view.


As you must know, Frank, newspapers do not require a license to

operate
and the Communications Act does not designate them as a public
resource.


Let's imagine most newspapers were controlled by one sydicate.


This is a straw man. Newspapers aren't controlled by one syndicate.


OK, how about one paper towns? Would it be a good idea for the

government
to ensure that the opponents of the editorial policy of the paper in a

one
paper town got their own space in that paper?


You keep missing one point. Even in one-paper towns, the acquisition of

this paper
is still attached to the exchange of merchandise for consideration (the

paper's sale
price). And in this instance, it doesn't take a contrary view to use a

newspaper to
spread the word (and the paper may actually help in publishing a letter to

the
paper's editors) since all it takes is for the dissenter to hire a printer

to publish
that view to be distributed independent of the paper. This model is not

possible in
a broadcasting model.


Not possible in broadcasting? There's no brokered stations anywhere?

Anyway, since there's more than one media to fight a disagreeable newspaper,
an opponent might use a different media. Buy time on a radio or TV station.
Start a letter writing campaign. Annoy people over the phone. Put up some
billboards.



And I still think these are reasonably good questions:


Maybe so, but it's clear you don't understand broadcast policy and

spectrum
management.


There's a whole world of things I don't understand. That's why I ask so
many questions!


Politics in the US seems to be going through an unusually nasty period
lately. I have no doubt the Republicans and the Democrats would be

actively
searching out or creating local pressure groups, in order to push media
stations around. Maybe I'm wrong about that and my opinion of the

likely
politicization of the fairness doctrine just reflects the lower regard

that
I've developed for both parties over the last 20 years. But I honestly
think any attempt to revive the fairness doctrine is going to turn into

a
real can of snakes. Better to leave bad enough alone.


Politics has gotten this way BECAUSE the FCC has left "bad enough alone".


Actually, I think US politics is reverting to it's normal nastiness. The
post WW2 political era was unusally calm, but that started falling apart in
the sixties, and it took a big hit in the Watergate era. The trend has
solidified in the last 20 years. We still may decline further. We haven't
had a fistfight in Congress for a while.

There's a
psychological effect that comes from people who associate only with others

holding
similar views, where after a time everyone involved comes away with an

even more
emphatically-held view of those issues. It's called group polarisation.

If you want
politics to climb down from this precipice, then you should support the
reintroduction of the Fairness Doctrine.


Ah, is that who the fairness doctrine is supposed to serve? People who
associate only with others holding similiar views? Well, I was sure you
didn't need the fairness doctrine in order to think straight, and I'm pretty
sure I don't, either. I'm glad I have that question answered.

But aren't these just the sort of people who would follow their favorite
propaganda outlets to cable or satellite radio when the fairness doctrine is
reintroduced?

If the fairness doctrine serves American society, shouldn't it cover all
media outlets?


And run the likes of FOX News out of Dodge,
or fine them out of existence. It's their transgressions which have made

a bad
situation worse.


I suppose FOX could herd their news operation from Dodge to cable. Their
fans would follow them, and FOX news would do just fine.

Frank Dresser



Charles Hobbs October 29th 04 05:26 AM

Frank Dresser wrote:
"Bob Haberkost" wrote in message


And run the likes of FOX News out of Dodge,
or fine them out of existence. It's their transgressions which have made


a bad

situation worse.



I suppose FOX could herd their news operation from Dodge to cable. Their
fans would follow them, and FOX news would do just fine.


Isn't Fox News only on cable anyway?


Bob Haberkost October 29th 04 03:39 PM


"Charles Hobbs" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:
"Bob Haberkost" wrote in message


And run the likes of FOX News out of Dodge,
or fine them out of existence. It's their transgressions which have made


a bad

situation worse.



I suppose FOX could herd their news operation from Dodge to cable. Their
fans would follow them, and FOX news would do just fine.


Isn't Fox News only on cable anyway?


Doesn't FOX also have a broadcast division, which affiliates pick up? Or is that
Sinclair? I don't know, as I don't watch the Fox station here, which is owned by
Sinclair. All I know is that what used to be a fairly decent newscast has now been
taken over by the parent company's agenda, making the national segment of this
newscast worthless.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know you're not
living in a free society.
Kim Campbell - ex-Prime Minister of Canada - 2004
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For direct replies, take out the contents between the hyphens. -Really!-





Frank Dresser October 30th 04 05:28 PM


"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

It's commonly not understood by non-engineers that a radio station
(broadcasting or otherwise) causes interference over a much wider area
than it provides service. This is especially true on AM where multiple
signals on the same frequency mix together.


The open frequencies I mentioned aren't silent, but are a mish-mash of low
power signals. They aren't useful in this area. A standard power
transmitter would encroach on the coverage area of one or more of these
stations. I'm sure there are cases in which a low power station could be
allowed. The street gang FM pirate is an example of this. I don't live
near where they were broadcasting, but I think I heard them. They were
broadcasting rap, and I had no interest in listening. The nearest licensed
station on that frequency is in LaSalle Illinois, or some such place. I
doubt they have any listeners east of Aurora. There were no interference
complaints.



The new Chicago X-band station moved from downstate - Johnson City IIRC.
A station on that frequency in Chicago would not have been allowed if
WRLL had been operating downstate.


I live within 15 miles of WRLL, and it's almost unlistenable at night after
they drop power to 1 kW. Skywave comes in from all over. A much larger
number of daytimers could be worked out, however.



As for the seemingly-open FM frequency, that depends on the quality of
one's receiver. I can ensure you my car radio (1998 Ford Escort) finds
NO open FM channels anywhere along the Edens/Kennedy/Ryan/Skyway
corridor. (and I'd be amazed if it found one open anywhere else in the
Chicago city limits) The frequencies either side of WUSN (99.3, 99.7)
*sound* open but that's because WUSN is running IBOC!

On the other hand, one could take that to extremes... my home receiver
provides useful reception of several Memphis stations, 170 miles away.
Should we prohibit any Nashville station from operating on a Memphis
frequency?


That's the point. The allowable amount of interference isn't really a
technical consideration. At one extreme, we could have a very small number
of true clear channel stations. Or we could have super saturated radio
markets in which the only clear reception would be within the shadow of the
station's antenna. Allowable interference is a political consideration, not
a technical one. The government gives alot of weight to the opinions of the
NAB on interference. There's closer station spacing, more stations, and
more 24 hour operations and IBOC, all with NAB backing. The NAB didn't like
the low power FM proposal, presumably on interference grounds, and we don't
have it.



The new LPTVs have (probably, I don't know the specific channels) become
possible as a result of the FCC relaxing certain "taboo channel"
regulations. They acknowledge a major improvement in the selectivity of
UHF TV tuners since 1952. Many FM receivers haven't improved
significantly in selectivity since the 1950s.


Image rejection is an issue. Chicago's Ch. 23 gets an image from another
station.



Right. And viewers/listeners don't really make the distinction between
cable and satellite and broadcasting anymore. If 90% of a person's TV
channels are uneffected by the fairness doctrine, does the fairness

doctrine
have any effect on the viewer?


Y'know, this is a dilemna in light of the Commission's new decency push.

How does OTA broadcasting compete with TBS, HBO, XM, or Sirius? When
the former industry is restricted by decency rules, while the latter
isn't?

How does enforcing decency rules against OTA stations accomplish
anything when most homes have content-unregulated premium channels?
When a growing number of cars have content-unregulated XM receivers? So
little Johnny doesn't learn what a breast looks like from Janet Jackson
on CBS. He'll figure it out the next night when he tunes past Showtime
during a program that shows a whole lot more than Jackson did...


I'm not a parent, so I'll admit my opinion is nearly worthless, but, if I
were a parent, I'd seriously consider just playing tapes and DVDs through
the TV.



Cable TV channels use radio transmission (via satellite) to link their
programming to your local cable system. XM and Sirius use radio
transmission (again via satellite, and now also terrestrially) to
deliver their programs to your radio.

IMHO the FCC has grounds to regulate both services on content if they
chose to do so. IMHO they need to either do so, or lift content
regulations on OTA.

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com
(who does, incidentially, believe the FD should return)




Sid Schweiger October 30th 04 05:28 PM

Doesn't FOX also have a broadcast division, which affiliates pick up?

The Fox O&O in Boston runs local news, but I've never seen a Fox news operation
other than cable (and the Boston station occasionally picks up actualities from
them, but not whole newscasts).


Bob Haberkost October 31st 04 03:24 AM


"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

It's commonly not understood by non-engineers that a radio station
(broadcasting or otherwise) causes interference over a much wider area
than it provides service. This is especially true on AM where multiple
signals on the same frequency mix together.


The open frequencies I mentioned aren't silent, but are a mish-mash of low
power signals. They aren't useful in this area.


Then they're not "open". And adding another signal, even a low power one, in this
space would then interfere with the otherwise serviceable coverage closer in to these
stations.

The new Chicago X-band station moved from downstate - Johnson City IIRC.
A station on that frequency in Chicago would not have been allowed if
WRLL had been operating downstate.


I live within 15 miles of WRLL, and it's almost unlistenable at night after
they drop power to 1 kW. Skywave comes in from all over. A much larger
number of daytimers could be worked out, however.


That doesn't make the area unserved by WRLL's nighttime pattern "open". A facility
allowed to fill in this "unserved" area would interfere with the stations whose
skywaves come in from all over. And the FCC no longer licenses daytimers, and all
attempts to apply for one will be rejected on this criteria. As it is, the FCC is
looking for daytimers below 1600 (and encourages, through policies in place) to move
to the X-band, in order to clear out the congestion and permit more regional service
by the full-time stations on those frequencies.

That's the point. The allowable amount of interference isn't really a
technical consideration. At one extreme, we could have a very small number
of true clear channel stations. Or we could have super saturated radio
markets in which the only clear reception would be within the shadow of the
station's antenna. Allowable interference is a political consideration, not
a technical one.


Actually, no. The interference standards provide for usable coverages to the limits
of receivers (very few radios will provide a listenable output at 500uV, the current
protection limit for nighttime service, which affords a 26dB signal to noise ratio,
give-or-take). But protecting out to that limit means that for every 20dB increase
in signal strength for the desired station (by moving closer to the transmitter) also
means at least a 20dB boost in the signal to noise ratio...thus, the rural-grade
5mV/m contour would be a listenable signal. Allowing increased interference (by
raising the protected contour to, say, 2mV/m) means that a listenable signal would be
obtained at the 20mVm contour....which is a metro-grade signal-strength. So, in the
interest of expanding coverage, you'd actually be reducing it. For both the new, as
well as the existing, stations.

All the details about how this is done can be found at
http://kauko.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2003/73/182/ and
http://kauko.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2003/73/37/

IMHO the FCC has grounds to regulate both services on content if they
chose to do so. IMHO they need to either do so, or lift content
regulations on OTA.


Maybe so....but, for the former proposal, would you want a situation where the FCC
can delve into the private affairs of these operations? You know, the next step
would be censoring telephone conversations, as the analogy holds. Subscription
services, and other non-broadcasting licensees, are not public entities. Better that
if the FCC feels obliged to limit what can be said on OTA, they feel that it's the
only area where such pervue exists. While I'm not so keen to remove those
restrictions on OTA, the Canadians and other democracies have no such limits
(although there's some discretion in how often the ability to say anything is
exploited) and they haven't come to the end of the world.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know you're not
living in a free society.
Kim Campbell - ex-Prime Minister of Canada - 2004
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For direct replies, take out the contents between the hyphens. -Really!-





Dr. Daffodil Swain October 31st 04 03:53 PM

does the fairness
doctrine
have any effect on the viewer?


The Fairness Doctrine no longer exists. Reagan Administration.

First Time Users May Be asked To Do A 1 Time Setup.
"Bob Haberkost" wrote in message
...

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

It's commonly not understood by non-engineers that a radio station
(broadcasting or otherwise) causes interference over a much wider area
than it provides service. This is especially true on AM where multiple
signals on the same frequency mix together.


The open frequencies I mentioned aren't silent, but are a mish-mash of

low
power signals. They aren't useful in this area.


Then they're not "open". And adding another signal, even a low power one,

in this
space would then interfere with the otherwise serviceable coverage closer

in to these
stations.

The new Chicago X-band station moved from downstate - Johnson City

IIRC.
A station on that frequency in Chicago would not have been allowed if
WRLL had been operating downstate.


I live within 15 miles of WRLL, and it's almost unlistenable at night

after
they drop power to 1 kW. Skywave comes in from all over. A much larger
number of daytimers could be worked out, however.


That doesn't make the area unserved by WRLL's nighttime pattern "open". A

facility
allowed to fill in this "unserved" area would interfere with the stations

whose
skywaves come in from all over. And the FCC no longer licenses daytimers,

and all
attempts to apply for one will be rejected on this criteria. As it is,

the FCC is
looking for daytimers below 1600 (and encourages, through policies in

place) to move
to the X-band, in order to clear out the congestion and permit more

regional service
by the full-time stations on those frequencies.

That's the point. The allowable amount of interference isn't really a
technical consideration. At one extreme, we could have a very small

number
of true clear channel stations. Or we could have super saturated radio
markets in which the only clear reception would be within the shadow of

the
station's antenna. Allowable interference is a political consideration,

not
a technical one.


Actually, no. The interference standards provide for usable coverages to

the limits
of receivers (very few radios will provide a listenable output at 500uV,

the current
protection limit for nighttime service, which affords a 26dB signal to

noise ratio,
give-or-take). But protecting out to that limit means that for every 20dB

increase
in signal strength for the desired station (by moving closer to the

transmitter) also
means at least a 20dB boost in the signal to noise ratio...thus, the

rural-grade
5mV/m contour would be a listenable signal. Allowing increased

interference (by
raising the protected contour to, say, 2mV/m) means that a listenable

signal would be
obtained at the 20mVm contour....which is a metro-grade signal-strength.

So, in the
interest of expanding coverage, you'd actually be reducing it. For both

the new, as
well as the existing, stations.

All the details about how this is done can be found at
http://kauko.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2003/73/182/ and
http://kauko.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2003/73/37/

IMHO the FCC has grounds to regulate both services on content if they
chose to do so. IMHO they need to either do so, or lift content
regulations on OTA.


Maybe so....but, for the former proposal, would you want a situation where

the FCC
can delve into the private affairs of these operations? You know, the

next step
would be censoring telephone conversations, as the analogy holds.

Subscription
services, and other non-broadcasting licensees, are not public entities.

Better that
if the FCC feels obliged to limit what can be said on OTA, they feel that

it's the
only area where such pervue exists. While I'm not so keen to remove those
restrictions on OTA, the Canadians and other democracies have no such

limits
(although there's some discretion in how often the ability to say anything

is
exploited) and they haven't come to the end of the world.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---
If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know

you're not
living in a free society.
Kim Campbell - ex-Prime Minister of Canada - 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---
For direct replies, take out the contents between the hyphens. -Really!-







Frank Dresser October 31st 04 03:53 PM


"Bob Haberkost" wrote in message
...

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

It's commonly not understood by non-engineers that a radio station
(broadcasting or otherwise) causes interference over a much wider area
than it provides service. This is especially true on AM where multiple
signals on the same frequency mix together.


The open frequencies I mentioned aren't silent, but are a mish-mash of

low
power signals. They aren't useful in this area.


Then they're not "open". And adding another signal, even a low power one,

in this
space would then interfere with the otherwise serviceable coverage closer

in to these
stations.


There's no evidence the Chicago street gang FM pirate ever took one listener
away from any licensed station. Their signal was lost in the noiise a few
miles from their transmitter. The nearest licensed station was over 60
miles away. The FM pirate was playing rap, much of it was offensive, and
there were no complaints


The new Chicago X-band station moved from downstate - Johnson City

IIRC.
A station on that frequency in Chicago would not have been allowed if
WRLL had been operating downstate.


I live within 15 miles of WRLL, and it's almost unlistenable at night

after
they drop power to 1 kW. Skywave comes in from all over. A much larger
number of daytimers could be worked out, however.


That doesn't make the area unserved by WRLL's nighttime pattern "open". A

facility
allowed to fill in this "unserved" area would interfere with the stations

whose
skywaves come in from all over.


Of course not. But it does indicate that the FCC's interference standard is
weak. If the FCC had a strong stand on interference, WRLL wouldn't exist as
it is in either Chicago or Johnson City. Given the interference and power
situation, it's practically a daytimer for most of it's listeners anyway.


And the FCC no longer licenses daytimers, and all
attempts to apply for one will be rejected on this criteria. As it is,

the FCC is
looking for daytimers below 1600 (and encourages, through policies in

place) to move
to the X-band, in order to clear out the congestion and permit more

regional service
by the full-time stations on those frequencies.


The irony is the Xband is best suited to daytimers. Or true clear channel
24 hour operations. As it is, it's a mess at night.


That's the point. The allowable amount of interference isn't really a
technical consideration. At one extreme, we could have a very small

number
of true clear channel stations. Or we could have super saturated radio
markets in which the only clear reception would be within the shadow of

the
station's antenna. Allowable interference is a political consideration,

not
a technical one.


Actually, no. The interference standards provide for usable coverages to

the limits
of receivers (very few radios will provide a listenable output at 500uV,

the current
protection limit for nighttime service, which affords a 26dB signal to

noise ratio,
give-or-take).


What is the noise in the signal to noise factor? Do they take into account
the cochannel interference, or they just assuming natural plus manmade
backround noise? On nearly all AM nighttime frequencies, the cochannel
interference is much stronger than the backround noise.

And there are very few FM frequencies which go down to the backround noise
anymore.


But protecting out to that limit means that for every 20dB increase
in signal strength for the desired station (by moving closer to the

transmitter) also
means at least a 20dB boost in the signal to noise ratio...thus, the

rural-grade
5mV/m contour would be a listenable signal. Allowing increased

interference (by
raising the protected contour to, say, 2mV/m) means that a listenable

signal would be
obtained at the 20mVm contour....which is a metro-grade signal-strength.

So, in the
interest of expanding coverage, you'd actually be reducing it. For both

the new, as
well as the existing, stations.


I think we're saying the same thing here. I said:

"Or we could have super saturated radio markets in which the only clear
reception would be within the shadow of the station's antenna."

Which sounds much like:

"Allowing increased interference (by raising the protected contour to, say,
2mV/m) means that a listenable signal would be obtained at the 20mVm
contour....which is a metro-grade signal-strength."

If the FCC really wanted to take a stronger stand on interference, it could
bring back it's older interference standards with wider frequency spacing
between stations in the same market, fewer AM nighttimers and fewer
stations overall.

If the FCC wanted to take a near absolutist stand on interference, they
could get rid of about 75% of the stations. The remaining stations would
have a much wider coverage area.

The FCC has neither a wide open stand on interference nor a absolutist stand
on interference. The current standard is a comprimise with elements of both
technology and politics. I belive politics is the bigger factor. The NAB
didn't like the old interference standards, so we have new standards. The
NAB and NPR didn't like the low power FM proposal, so they screamed
"interference!". I think there's plenty of room for low power 10 to 1000
watt FMers which would serve a community.
...

All the details about how this is done can be found at
http://kauko.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2003/73/182/ and
http://kauko.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2003/73/37/

IMHO the FCC has grounds to regulate both services on content if they
chose to do so. IMHO they need to either do so, or lift content
regulations on OTA.


Maybe so....but, for the former proposal, would you want a situation where

the FCC
can delve into the private affairs of these operations? You know, the

next step
would be censoring telephone conversations, as the analogy holds.

Subscription
services, and other non-broadcasting licensees, are not public entities.


What about OTA subscription services? The used to be pay TV stations in
areas which weren't wired up with cable.

Suppose IBOC AM flops, and Clear Channel converts their digital sidebands
into a subscription service. Should those stations be allowed the same
speech rights as satellite stations?

Better that
if the FCC feels obliged to limit what can be said on OTA, they feel that

it's the
only area where such pervue exists. While I'm not so keen to remove those
restrictions on OTA, the Canadians and other democracies have no such

limits
(although there's some discretion in how often the ability to say anything

is
exploited) and they haven't come to the end of the world.
--
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If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know

you're not
living in a free society.
Kim Campbell - ex-Prime Minister of Canada - 2004
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For direct replies, take out the contents between the hyphens. -Really!-








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