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Detroit's radio stations dive into Internet stream
Saturday, March 19, 2005
From music to talk, broadcasters reach out to listeners who have computer connections. By Susan Whitall / The Detroit News Detroit radio stations are jumping on the Internet streaming bandwagon -- or jumping back on -- faster than weeds grow in April. "Streaming" is a continuous online audio feed that you can listen to on your computer. Expect more stations to go online every day, as industry giants Clear Channel and Infinity have both hinted that they're going full-bore ahead into the Internet world. .. Classic rock WCSX-FM (104.3) relaunched its Webstream Friday at wcsx.com, after shutting it down three and a half years ago. "We'd been hearing from people who worked inside the Ren Cen and couldn't pick up the signal," WCSX operations manager Bill Stedman says. "Now they'll be able to listen at their computers." Greater Media's WRIF-FM has been streaming morning hosts Drew and Mike and all its shows all along. .. For talk and news-talk stations, streaming has been less of a headache because they have mostly background music to license. Salem Broadcasting's conservative talk WDTK-AM (1400) has been streaming its shows online for some time. Progressive talk WDTW-AM (1310) streams most of its content and promises its morning show will be up soon. .. This past Valentine's Day, news-talk WJR-AM (760) started putting its programs up live on the Internet. WJR is streaming all of its programming except for Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Laura, Dr. Dean Edell, Matt Drudge and Ann Delisi. President and general manager Mike Fezzey says the station is already getting a lot of calls outside its geographical reach. "Any opportunity to extend the brand and allow people to listen to us where they haven't been able to before is a good thing," Fezzey says. "There are people traveling who want to stay in touch, people who might go to a winter home in Florida or Arizona. Some people have a radio, but it's just easier to listen online if you're at the computer." .. This past Monday, all-news WWJ-AM (950) was among many Infinity stations nationally to start streaming as well. Rich Homberg, vice president and general manager for WWJ, is excited about throwing the station's "live and local" programming up online. Now anyone around the globe with a computer can hear all news all the time, including Joe Donovan's 20/20 News-style alliteration, updates on freeway closures and the latest on Detroit politics and Hines Drive flooding. "Streaming is just another way that we're moving from a 'we' world to a 'me' world," Homberg says. "We want to move onto the devices of the future, whether that's computers or iPods. That's where the world is going, and we know it's important for us to be there." Homberg envisions a time in the near future when an individualized WWJ broadcast will be downloaded onto your car radio, podcast-style, while it sits in the garage overnight. WWJ doesn't rely heavily on syndicated content, and Homberg believes that will work in its favor online. "There seems to be this rumor out there that the Internet will hurt radio," Homberg says. "But if you give people compelling local content, they'll listen. You can't be generic, though. If 15 hours of my (programming) day were network radio, I'd be concerned." http://www.detnews.com/2005/screens/...D01-121668.htm |
Mike Terry wrote in message ... Saturday, March 19, 2005 From music to talk, broadcasters reach out to listeners who have computer connections. By Susan Whitall / The Detroit News Detroit radio stations are jumping on the Internet streaming bandwagon -- or jumping back on -- faster than weeds grow in April. "Streaming" is a continuous online audio feed that you can listen to on your computer. Expect more stations to go online every day, as industry giants Clear Channel and Infinity have both hinted that they're going full-bore ahead into the Internet world. . Classic rock WCSX-FM (104.3) relaunched its Webstream Friday at wcsx.com, after shutting it down three and a half years ago. "We'd been hearing from people who worked inside the Ren Cen and couldn't pick up the signal," WCSX operations manager Bill Stedman says. "Now they'll be able to listen at their computers." So how does streaming make bottom-line sense now when it didn't three and a half years ago, when hundreds of stations pulled their signals to avoid having to pay additional fees to stream ads that used unionized talent? Are CC and Infinity scrubbing their webcasts of such ads? Howard |
H Glazer wrote:
So how does streaming make bottom-line sense now when it didn't three and a half years ago, when hundreds of stations pulled their signals to avoid having to pay additional fees to stream ads that used unionized talent? Are CC and Infinity scrubbing their webcasts of such ads? Can't speak for Infinity - Uncle Mel must have just lifted the streaming ban, because to date I've never been able to find Infinity stations that stream. But Clear Channel has been streaming Internet broadcasts of their stations with no ads at all for a year or two... first using HiWire, and now using... I forget who. -- JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" |
So how does streaming make bottom-line sense now when it didn't three and a half years ago, when hundreds of stations pulled their signals to avoid having to pay additional fees to stream ads that used unionized talent? Are CC and Infinity scrubbing their webcasts of such ads? Howard Yes - and as they use automation more and more, it gets easier. The "stream" will have an announcement (don't worry, we're not playing you the commercial", or, morel likely these days, a commercial produced with non-AFTRA talent. This gives the streaming station another potential revenue opportunity. |
On 21 Mar 2005 17:41:41 GMT, Steve Sobol wrote:
Can't speak for Infinity - Uncle Mel must have just lifted the streaming ban, I can't speak for Infinity either, but the streaming ban was lifted after Uncle Mel left the company. So far only spoken-word formats are being streamed. Mark Howell |
On 21 Mar 2005 17:41:41 GMT, Steve Sobol wrote:
Can't speak for Infinity - Uncle Mel must have just lifted the streaming ban, because to date I've never been able to find Infinity stations that stream. But Clear Channel has been streaming Internet broadcasts of their stations with no ads at all for a year or two... first using HiWire, and now using... I forget who. "Uncle Mel" is now running Sirius, and is no longer the head honcho at Infinity. Several big market Infinity FMs have been streaming via the closed AOL for Broadband system for a few months now. I believe this "experiment" started even before Mr. Karmazin left Infinity. Shortly thereafter, they started streaming WCBS/880, the NYC all-news station...the first Infinity station to stream outside the AOL network. And just last week, they launched most of Infinity's big market all-news and news/talk stations into streaming. So, if you haven't found Infinity stations that stream, you haven't looked very recently :) |
Mike Ward wrote:
On 21 Mar 2005 17:41:41 GMT, Steve Sobol wrote: Can't speak for Infinity - Uncle Mel must have just lifted the streaming ban, because to date I've never been able to find Infinity stations that stream. But Clear Channel has been streaming Internet broadcasts of their stations with no ads at all for a year or two... first using HiWire, and now using... I forget who. "Uncle Mel" is now running Sirius, Yeah, forgot about that. :) -- JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" |
"H Glazer" wrote in message ... So how does streaming make bottom-line sense now when it didn't three and a half years ago, when hundreds of stations pulled their signals to avoid having to pay additional fees to stream ads that used unionized talent? Are CC and Infinity scrubbing their webcasts of such ads? Howard I listen to WABC quite a lot at night (John Batchelor mostly), and they routinely pull those types of ads from the webcast and either replace it with dead air or a filler of some sort. Some ads and brokerage shows get through. Gary Schnabl (Southwest) Detroit |
Do you know or remember Detroit radio 1967-68??
Someone claimed he was earning $350,000 a year doing a morning show in Detroit. Came from Cleveland where he was making $300.000 at the time. |
Mike Ward wrote in news:d1n7vf$6v7$1
@xuxa.iecc.com: "Uncle Mel" is now running Sirius, and is no longer the head honcho at Infinity. And very shortly after he took over at Sirius, the few free web streams that Sirius talent had negotiated for their hard-core fans were unceremoniously turned off. -- George Bush's War of Choice on Iraq is a totally unnecessary war. Every life lost, every limb lost, every disfigurement, every disability caused there is more blood on George W. Bush's hands, and on the hands of everyone who voted for George W. Bush. |
On 22 Mar 2005 18:51:00 GMT, Tom Betz wrote:
And very shortly after he took over at Sirius, the few free web streams that Sirius talent had negotiated for their hard-core fans were unceremoniously turned off. You know, it's no secret Mel is no fan of streaming...but I don't really blame him in that case. At Infinity, his strict "no streaming" policy increasingly meant that the company seemed to be walling itself off from the growing world of digital audio. But at Sirius, his company is now PART of that world, and I can't blame him for cutting off free feeds of exclusive talent, that you can't hear anywhere else. I do believe they should stream those folks to subscribers via their in-house streaming that already exists for music stations on Sirius. |
Mike Ward wrote in news:d1s93d$7p$1
@xuxa.iecc.com: But at Sirius, his company is now PART of that world, and I can't blame him for cutting off free feeds of exclusive talent, that you can't hear anywhere else. Nor could I, if Sirius were to offer a web-only subscription option for those of us for whom the available Sirius hardware remains unacceptably inflexible. Unfortunately, the only way to subscribe to the web stream is first to purchase Sirius hardware, because you need the hardware's serial number. And as a matter of principle, I'm not about to buy any hardware that isn't at least as portable as a 1980 Sony Walkman. -- George Bush's War of Choice on Iraq is a totally unnecessary war. Every life lost, every limb lost, every disfigurement, every disability caused there is more blood on George W. Bush's hands, and on the hands of everyone who voted for George W. Bush. |
"roger carroll" wrote in message
... Do you know or remember Detroit radio 1967-68?? Someone claimed he was earning $350,000 a year doing a morning show in Detroit. Came from Cleveland where he was making $300.000 at the time. Yeah, it was Joseph P. McCarthy (J. P. McCarthy on the air) on WJR. I can't remember the years Joe moved from Detroit to Cleveland and then back again. He the WJR morning man for many years, stayed in Cleveland just a few years, then moved back to WJR for many more years. He died of a fairly rare form of cancer several years ago. I have a CD that WJR produced commemorating his career--a recording of the morning broadcast on WJR the day after his death. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don Forsling "Iowa--Gateway to Those Big Rectangular States" |
"H Glazer" wrote in message So how does streaming make bottom-line sense now when it didn't three and a half years ago, when hundreds of stations pulled their signals to avoid having to pay additional fees to stream ads that used unionized talent? Are CC and Infinity scrubbing their webcasts of such ads? Apparently so. If you listen to WBZ radio on the 'net, you hear Mayor Menino, ads for the Red Cross, PSAs, etc. Also, the broadcast industry ran away from the 'net, possibly fearing it, not understanding it, or a combination of both. Kinda like the motion picture industry - they feared television, they feared pay TV, they feared cable TV (as did a lot of the broadcast industry for awhile), they feared the VCR, of all things. Some of these "fads" turned out to be their best friends, and their best hope for survival! They were just too stupid to realize it at the time! |
Well, maybe I was a little prophetic a few years ago on this, but
it's deja vu all over again. The broadcasting industry didn't UNDERSTAND the Internet, and no one knew where, and in what direction it was going to go five years ago. Some, in this group, condemned the Internet mode of broadcasting. A fad. Technically inferior. Can't reach as many people. Blah blah blah. A lot of absurd statements. Now, they realize if they don't climb on board, they're going to be left at the starter's gate (duh!) |
Greg and Joan wrote in message ... "H Glazer" wrote in message So how does streaming make bottom-line sense now when it didn't three and a half years ago, when hundreds of stations pulled their signals to avoid having to pay additional fees to stream ads that used unionized talent? Are CC and Infinity scrubbing their webcasts of such ads? Apparently so. If you listen to WBZ radio on the 'net, you hear Mayor Menino, ads for the Red Cross, PSAs, etc. Also, the broadcast industry ran away from the 'net, possibly fearing it, not understanding it, or a combination of both. OK, how does Internet streaming benefit WBZ in tangible dollars and cents? If people in the Boston market choose to listen via the 'Net at the office, maybe they're hearing 'BZ where they normally would not be able to, but they're not hearing the advertising that drives the station's earnings. People in other cities, states, countries ... how does their listening to the Web stream matter? Yeah, I suppose Bobby in Birmingham and Rajiv in Bombay would be more likely to listen to WBZ in their cars should they ever move to or visit Boston, but that can't be the justification. I like Internet radio just as much as the next guy, and I'm glad to see more stations returning to cyberspace, but I'm still wondering how broadcasters hope to recover the costs of streaming. Howard |
H Glazer had written:
| | OK, how does Internet streaming benefit WBZ in tangible dollars and cents? | If people in the Boston market choose to listen via the 'Net at the office, | maybe they're hearing 'BZ where they normally would not be able to, but | they're not hearing the advertising that drives the station's earnings. Data point: KCBS in San Francisco is touting its (new) stream as giving listeners the ability to listen at the office. The audio stream at the web site is being heavily promoted on-air. Either the marketing department isn't communicating clearly with the sales department, or they're laying the groundwork for what they hope to be a new revenue stream. -- Mark Roberts | "Never do math on television." Oakland, Cal.| -- KTVU meteorologist Bill Martin, January 3, 2005 NO HTML MAIL | Permission to archive this article in any form is hereby explicitly denied. |
In article ,
H Glazer wrote: I link Internet radio just as much as the next guy, and I'm glad to see more stations returning to cyberspace, but I'm still wondering how broadcasters hope to recover the costs of streaming. I think the logic goes something like this: - If few people listen, then it doesn't cost very much, and we make a few of our P1s happer because they can get the station in their offices, which helps to build brand loyalty. - If lots of people listen, we can sell that. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every | generation can invoke its principles in their own Opinions not those | search for greater freedom. of MIT or CSAIL. | - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. ___ (2003) |
Garrett Wollman wrote in message ... In article , H Glazer wrote: I link Internet radio just as much as the next guy, and I'm glad to see more stations returning to cyberspace, but I'm still wondering how broadcasters hope to recover the costs of streaming. I think the logic goes something like this: - If few people listen, then it doesn't cost very much, and we make a few of our P1s happer because they can get the station in their offices, which helps to build brand loyalty. - If lots of people listen, we can sell that. Yeah, but they'll be trying to sell that to the advertising agencies they deal with, who know full well (I would think) that their AFTRA-talent-voiced ads aren't being heard by any of that burgeoning number of Internet listeners. People who listen to WBZ in the office, most likely, already listen to WBZ in their cars. Brand loyalty has already been built. The only really new listeners WBZ stands to gain are the out-of-market ones that Boston-based advertisers don't care if they reach, even if the stream wasn't scrubbed. Are Sullivan Tire, Giant Glass, or whoever, really going to pay more because 'BZ is now being heard online by people who can't hear their ads? Howard |
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In article ,
Mark Roberts wrote: Data point: KCBS in San Francisco is touting its (new) stream as giving listeners the ability to listen at the office. The audio stream at the web site is being heavily promoted on-air. Now that Mel is gone, all of the Infinity N/T outlets are doing it. They did a trial in New York on WCBS and reportedly got very good response. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every | generation can invoke its principles in their own Opinions not those | search for greater freedom. of MIT or CSAIL. | - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. ___ (2003) |
Most AM stations cannot be received well in any large office or retail
facility. That is why streaming will be increasingly important. Also, if you look at the power that some stations have in some metro areas, and the other technical factors, both AM and FM, then it will make even more sense. KFWB is 5kw-U, KNX is 50kw-U, but there are some that are only 1kw-U there in such a large locality as LA. The FM side is no different. I once was on the 405 in Orange County and started to lose KMZT before the John Wayne airport. KUSC wasn't much better. Also, there are translators and other things that attract listeners. Translators usually cover a much smaller area, some only run on a few watts, most outside the Northeast and Southern California can have up to 250 watts or more, and cover large areas, almost as much sometimes as a Class A FM. LPFMs also have taken to streaming. Religious stations like K-Love thrive on streaming. In fact, K-Love is usually in the top-5 of streaming stations as far as total time spent listening. Also, non-broadcast outlets like BYURadio at http://www.byuradio.org/ (although they have a satellite feed on DISH Network, and are on one LPFM), and KZION at http://www.kzion.com/ have streams and pick up quite a few listeners. I don't think either of these have hit the top-50 in terms of TTSL yet but well could. There are others that have made the top-50 that are not broadcast either. |
We have heard and read the paranoia, even in this group. One friend of mine who worked in radio told me his management was paranoid over "dead air" or even breaking format in the evening, because a listener might change the station and never put it back on theirs during morning drive. Would this argument make sense? - they want you to listen in the car -- AND THE OFFICE -- and they don't want you listening to something else in the office. There are a considerable number of stations that DON'T have the union-written commercial situation, and they've been streaming. You might find one of those stations, put it on in your car, and never go back to the station that is the internet fraidy-cat. - if they don't go after the internet crowd, someone else will. Finally - since streaming stations "drop in" non-AFTRA PSAs, could it be possible that they would "drop in" non-AFTRA commercial spots? And those bring in money..... |
In article ,
H Glazer wrote: People who listen to WBZ in the office, most likely, already listen to WBZ in their cars. Brand loyalty has already been built. You're looking at it wrong. People who can't get WBZ in the office might start listening to WBUR instead. When they get back into their cars, there's a chance they might not leave them set on 1030 (particularly if they heard a tease for something they want to listen to on the way home), and that's potentially a P1 lost. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every | generation can invoke its principles in their own Opinions not those | search for greater freedom. of MIT or CSAIL. | - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. ___ (2003) |
Merlin" wrote in message
... Yes - and as they use automation more and more, it gets easier. The "stream" will have an announcement (don't worry, we're not playing you the commercial", or, morel likely these days, a commercial produced with non-AFTRA talent. This gives the streaming station another potential revenue opportunity. As a layman who browses in here from time to time, I am amazed at the negative reactions over new ideas -- "if it doesn't fit the proven model, it can't possibly work." Such an attitude is reminiscent of a recent support call - my internet DSL line went down and I called to report it. An offshore call center person said "It is not possible. No problem has been reported." When I said "I am reporting the problem" - circular reasoning began. What little I know of radio -- I **do** know that when broadcasting began, it was experimental. People tried things that worked and others that didn't. The same happened with televison. Brooks and Marsh were very quick to point out old 1940s TV shows with concepts that fell flat. The same with FM radio - some formulas worked and others flopped. The internet is no different. I think it came to a point - where radio seems to be locked in a conservative framework -- several months back -- when someone said LPFM will fail, because it doesn't track in "the book". My response is - while LPFM does not have the scientific studies that the mainstream broadcast world has, its commercial underwriters don't care about "the book". If Louie's Sub Shop underwrites the high school football game at a cost of $150 and the spots yield him $400 in extra business that night, it works, regardless of what Arbitron says or doesn't say. I guess I'm amazed, because the Internet is a "wild west" medium, and I would think that broadcasting - with its long, rich history of not being afraid to try new things - would have been pioneering there, rather than running scared and away from it for the first several years of its existence. |
"Mark Roberts" wrote in message ... H Glazer had written: | | OK, how does Internet streaming benefit WBZ in tangible dollars and cents? | If people in the Boston market choose to listen via the 'Net at the office, | maybe they're hearing 'BZ where they normally would not be able to, but | they're not hearing the advertising that drives the station's earnings. Data point: KCBS in San Francisco is touting its (new) stream as giving listeners the ability to listen at the office. The audio stream at the web site is being heavily promoted on-air. WBZ is doing the same thing. |
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dead air and breaking format at night is NOT PARANOIA...IT'S STUPID.
roger carroll retired radio station owner. |
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