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Speech Processor Prototype...
The new speech processor prototype is working well... even if Frank
doesn't understand it... LOL Follow it's progress at http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...s/WhatsNew.htm www.telstar-electronics.com |
Speech Processor Prototype...
"Telstar Electronics" wrote in message oups.com... The new speech processor prototype is working well... even if Frank doesn't understand it... LOL Follow it's progress at http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...s/WhatsNew.htm www.telstar-electronics.com Nice custom housing. Gonna hook it up to 120V or 240V to get that extra swing? Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
Speech Processor Prototype...
wrote in message ... On 1 Jan 2007 15:59:51 -0800, "Telstar Electronics" wrote: The new speech processor prototype is working well... even if Frank doesn't understand it... LOL Follow it's progress at http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...s/WhatsNew.htm www.telstar-electronics.com at the risk seeming stupid what is the prupose/objective of such a device http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ Seeming? Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
Speech Processor Prototype...
On 1 Jan 2007 15:59:51 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in .com: The new speech processor prototype is working well... even if Frank doesn't understand it... LOL Remember when I told you how to get harmonic-free clipping? Well here you go, Brian.... hack this and I might even buy one myself: ftp://bama.sbc.edu/downloads/comdel/csp11/ |
Speech Processor Prototype...
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Speech Processor Prototype...
U-Know-Who wrote:
Nice custom housing. Gonna hook it up to 120V or 240V to get that extra swing? LOL... You're right... the prototype enclosure is an outlet box. This was the only steel enclosure that was handy at the time. It works well for my proto needs. www.telstar-electronics.com |
Speech Processor Prototype...
Well... I should be able to get out in the mobile this weekend to try
out the new prototype on the air. I'll be sure to let you know how it works Frank... hehehe Track the progress of the new prototype at http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...s/WhatsNew.htm |
Speech Processor Prototype...
On Mon, 01 Jan 2007 19:03:38 -0500, wrote:
+++at the risk seeming stupid what is the prupose/objective of such a +++device ************ Increase bandwidth through splatter. james |
Speech Processor Prototype...
"james" wrote in message ... On Mon, 01 Jan 2007 19:03:38 -0500, wrote: +++at the risk seeming stupid what is the prupose/objective of such a +++device ************ Increase bandwidth through splatter. james If you can find the circuit for the compression amp of a GRT21 this circuit works great. Makes your radio sound like a used car commercial. If set up right it can keep average sideband power up and prevent overmodulation. No ICs and a fairly small total parts count.. IF you can find the schematic for the GRT21 you have to be careful, there were two audio input boards. The compressor board and a straight audio board. The transmitter used one or the other, not both. |
Speech Processor Prototype...
james wrote:
Increase bandwidth through splatter. Nonsense... if the original ALC/modulation limiting is in tact within the radio... this speech processor will not over modulate. However, it will certainly boost your average power on AM and SSB! www.telstar-electronics.com |
Speech Processor Prototype...
On 5 Jan 2007 04:53:16 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in .com: james wrote: Increase bandwidth through splatter. Nonsense... if the original ALC/modulation limiting is in tact within the radio... this speech processor will not over modulate. Then why does your processor include amplitude limiting if it isn't needed? And why does your 2-transistor amp have the gain of only one transistor? However, it will certainly boost your average power on AM and SSB! I await your test data. So how do you intend to make your measurements? |
Speech Processor Prototype...
james wrote:
Increase bandwidth through splatter. wrote in Nonsense... if the original ALC/modulation limiting is in tact within the radio... this speech processor will not over modulate. Frank Gilliland wrote: Then why does your processor include amplitude limiting if it isn't needed? If the limiter is in tact within the radio... the redunantcy of the speech processor limiting can be shut off. However, if the radio has no limiter... the the speech processor must be adjusted to do the limiting function. So it'll work either way. www.telstar-electronics.com |
Speech Processor Prototype...
On 5 Jan 2007 10:27:20 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in . com: james wrote: Increase bandwidth through splatter. wrote in Nonsense... if the original ALC/modulation limiting is in tact within the radio... this speech processor will not over modulate. Frank Gilliland wrote: Then why does your processor include amplitude limiting if it isn't needed? If the limiter is in tact within the radio... the redunantcy of the speech processor limiting can be shut off. However, if the radio has no limiter... the the speech processor must be adjusted to do the limiting function. So it'll work either way. What happened to the rest of the post, Brain? Why use two transistors when you can get the same gain with one? What about your published non-linear data for your linear amp? What equipment did you use to make your measurements for real power and harmonic distortion? And where's that schematic? And you whine about -me- drifting off-topic.... sheesh!!! |
Speech Processor Prototype...
Frank Gilliland wrote:
What happened to the rest of the post, Brain? Why use two transistors when you can get the same gain with one? What about your published non-linear data for your linear amp? What equipment did you use to make your measurements for real power and harmonic distortion? And where's that schematic? Off topic of this thread Frank... www.telstar-electronics.com |
Speech Processor Prototype...
On 5 Jan 2007 04:53:16 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote: +++james wrote: +++ Increase bandwidth through splatter. +++ +++Nonsense... if the original ALC/modulation limiting is in tact within +++the radio... this speech processor will not over modulate. However, it +++will certainly boost your average power on AM and SSB! +++ +++www.telstar-electronics.com *************** I'll bet 95% of the cbs operating today have the ALC/Modulating limits circuits defeated. Heck back in the 70's that was the first thing hackjob socalled techs would to a radio. james |
Brian's non-linear linear
On 5 Jan 2007 11:47:30 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in .com: Frank Gilliland wrote: What happened to the rest of the post, Brain? Why use two transistors when you can get the same gain with one? What about your published non-linear data for your linear amp? What equipment did you use to make your measurements for real power and harmonic distortion? And where's that schematic? Off topic of this thread Frank... Now it's on topic, Brian. Well? |
Brian's non-linear linear
Frank Gilliland wrote:
What happened to the rest of the post, Brain? Why use two transistors when you can get the same gain with one? What about your published non-linear data for your linear amp? What equipment did you use to make your measurements for real power and harmonic distortion? And where's that schematic? Now it's on topic, Brian. Well? Frank, we've been over this numerous times. Please look throught the archives. See the SkyWave amplifier and judge for yourself at http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...ve2879ABTC.htm |
Brian's non-linear linear
On 6 Jan 2007 06:30:02 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in om: Frank Gilliland wrote: What happened to the rest of the post, Brain? Why use two transistors when you can get the same gain with one? What about your published non-linear data for your linear amp? What equipment did you use to make your measurements for real power and harmonic distortion? And where's that schematic? Now it's on topic, Brian. Well? Frank, we've been over this numerous times. Please look throught the archives. I found nothing in the archives that explains how your amp is linear despite your own data proving that it's not. I found nothing in the archives that explains why you used two transistors for your amp when it has the gain of only one. I found nothing in the archives that indicates what equipment you used, if any, to make your measurements (the same measurements that prove your amp is non-linear). I found nothing in the archives that includes, or points to, a schematic for your amp. What I -did- find in the archives is you demonstrating that you have absolutely no clue what you are doing (i.e, "linearity is not required for SSB...."), ducking the questions by making excuses why you can't answer them, or pouting in a corner with your passive-agressive "Thank you for your support" line. Yet you BEGGED for just one schematic of what I have done. When I provided it, you once again ducked the questions with even -more- quacking. If you won't address the issues then the only conclusion is that you can't. And just to twist the knife a bit, the equation to find the minimum surface area of a ground plane is [pi]r^2 where r = 1/4 wavelength.... the area of the circle that is covered by 1/4-wave radials. So what will it be, Brian..... a demonstration of your engineering expertise? Or just more hack-and-quack? |
Brian's non-linear linear
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On 6 Jan 2007 06:30:02 -0800, "Telstar Electronics" wrote in om: Frank Gilliland wrote: What happened to the rest of the post, Brain? Why use two transistors when you can get the same gain with one? What about your published non-linear data for your linear amp? What equipment did you use to make your measurements for real power and harmonic distortion? And where's that schematic? Now it's on topic, Brian. Well? Frank, we've been over this numerous times. Please look throught the archives. I found nothing in the archives that explains how your amp is linear despite your own data proving that it's not. I found nothing in the archives that explains why you used two transistors for your amp when it has the gain of only one. Two transistors in paralell only have the gain as one. They will put out 3db more power as a single device but only if you supply 3db more drive. I found nothing in the archives that indicates what equipment you used, if any, to make your measurements (the same measurements that prove your amp is non-linear). I found nothing in the archives that includes, or points to, a schematic for your amp. What I -did- find in the archives is you demonstrating that you have absolutely no clue what you are doing (i.e, "linearity is not required for SSB...."), ducking the questions by making excuses why you can't answer them, or pouting in a corner with your passive-agressive "Thank you for your support" line. Yet you BEGGED for just one schematic of what I have done. When I provided it, you once again ducked the questions with even -more- quacking. If you won't address the issues then the only conclusion is that you can't. And just to twist the knife a bit, the equation to find the minimum surface area of a ground plane is [pi]r^2 where r = 1/4 wavelength.... the area of the circle that is covered by 1/4-wave radials. So what will it be, Brian..... a demonstration of your engineering expertise? Or just more hack-and-quack? |
Brian's non-linear linear
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:40:50 -0500, "Jimmie D"
wrote in : snip Two transistors in paralell only have the gain as one. His transistors are in push-pull, not parallel. |
Brian's non-linear linear
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:40:50 -0500, "Jimmie D" wrote in : snip Two transistors in paralell only have the gain as one. His transistors are in push-pull, not parallel. Same thing no more gain. One would have to be driving the other to have any more gain, It will just handle more power. |
Brian's non-linear linear
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:35:49 -0500, "Jimmie D"
wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:40:50 -0500, "Jimmie D" wrote in : snip Two transistors in paralell only have the gain as one. His transistors are in push-pull, not parallel. Same thing no more gain. One would have to be driving the other to have any more gain, It will just handle more power. I rushed the last answer because I was in a hurry to get out the door. Anyway, your statement is true if you are talking only about current gain. Power gain, OTOH, is double in either configuration. For example, if a transistor with a current gain of 10 is fed an input of 100mA the output will be 1A. Two transistors in parallel will split the input current at 50mA each, with an output of 500mA each or 1A total. No additional current gain. But you are forgetting that when two transistors are in parallel the input and output impedances are reduced by half. If you take the input signal and convert its impedance to one-fourth of what is fed to a single transistor you can maintain 100mA input to each transistor using the same input power, with an output having -twice- the current at half the impedance of one transistor. The result is double the power gain. Brian's amp should be pushing 18dB. If it isn't then he screwed up the matching of the transistor input and output impedances. That's one reason why I want to see his schematic. |
Brian's non-linear linear
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... Brian's amp should be pushing 18dB. If it isn't then he screwed up the matching of the transistor input and output impedances. That's one reason why I want to see his schematic. Not the best, but if you look at the third image, you will see the schematic... Or try this link, a little larger and clearer... http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d.../image1462.png |
Brian's non-linear linear
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:35:49 -0500, "Jimmie D" wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:40:50 -0500, "Jimmie D" wrote in : snip Two transistors in paralell only have the gain as one. His transistors are in push-pull, not parallel. Same thing no more gain. One would have to be driving the other to have any more gain, It will just handle more power. I rushed the last answer because I was in a hurry to get out the door. Anyway, your statement is true if you are talking only about current gain. Power gain, OTOH, is double in either configuration. For example, if a transistor with a current gain of 10 is fed an input of 100mA the output will be 1A. Two transistors in parallel will split the input current at 50mA each, with an output of 500mA each or 1A total. No additional current gain. But you are forgetting that when two transistors are in parallel the input and output impedances are reduced by half. If you take the input signal and convert its impedance to one-fourth of what is fed to a single transistor you can maintain 100mA input to each transistor using the same input power, with an output having -twice- the current at half the impedance of one transistor. The result is double the power gain. Brian's amp should be pushing 18dB. If it isn't then he screwed up the matching of the transistor input and output impedances. That's one reason why I want to see his schematic. I must admit I never built a single transistor PA before SO I will have to look at the numbers again. Granted the push pull amp is more efficent than the single ended amp but Im still not sure about the gain. Il have to crank the #s when I dont have a snoot full of cold medicine. Please correct me if I am wrong but you are saying that two amps biased for say classB operation that a 2 transistor anp will have 6 db more output than a 1 transistor amp with the same drive power. He probably does have an impedance matching problem , almost all amps of this type do to some degree. The impedance transformation of the transformers can almost always be improved upon by the inclusion of an adjustable L or Pi network in the output of the amp.. I know the last amp I tested had an output impedance of about 35 ohms. A matching network added to this amp increased power out, reduced harmonics and made the transistors stop popping. |
Brian's non-linear linear
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 02:04:05 -0500, "Jimmie D"
wrote in : snip I must admit I never built a single transistor PA before SO I will have to look at the numbers again. Granted the push pull amp is more efficent than the single ended amp Not necessarily.... but Im still not sure about the gain. Il have to crank the #s when I dont have a snoot full of cold medicine. Please correct me if I am wrong but you are saying that two amps biased for say classB operation that a 2 transistor anp will have 6 db more output than a 1 transistor amp with the same drive power. No, just 3dB. Double your pleasure, double your fun. He probably does have an impedance matching problem , Yes he does. And his amp probably does, too. almost all amps of this type do to some degree. The impedance transformation of the transformers can almost always be improved upon by the inclusion of an adjustable L or Pi network in the output of the amp.. I know the last amp I tested had an output impedance of about 35 ohms. A matching network added to this amp increased power out, reduced harmonics and made the transistors stop popping. Impedance matching in an amp isn't a plug-n-play application. It's not as simple as reading the specs off the data sheet and punching numbers into a calculator. Since the big-signal gain of the transistors varies so much, each transistor pair much be physically measured, matched, and the impedance adjusted accordingly for maximum gain. The biggest problem with these amps is that the transformers have so few turns that they are very impedance-specific, as you discovered with your 35 ohm amp. There are only two solutions: either use transistors within a very narrow range of gain -or- change the gain (and therefore the impedance) of the transistors with negative feedback. I like the latter because it increases linearity. It does require each amp to be adjusted for any given pair of transistors, but almost all of the transistors in stock can be used because the gain range isn't nearly as limited. Yes, you can transform the impedance with a tuning network prior to the input transformer and after the output transformer, but it will limit the frequency response of the amp to a narrow bandwidth. This is how most of the so-called "broadband" CB amps are built. Most of the people who have used them know what a bitch it is to retune the amp every time you want to use it on a different part of the band. That's not "broadband" -- it's false advertising. |
Brian's non-linear linear
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:39:51 -0600, "PowerHouse Communications"
wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message .. . Brian's amp should be pushing 18dB. If it isn't then he screwed up the matching of the transistor input and output impedances. That's one reason why I want to see his schematic. Not the best, but if you look at the third image, you will see the schematic... Or try this link, a little larger and clearer... http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d.../image1462.png Not good; and it looks like his audio processor, not his amp. |
Brian's non-linear linear
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 02:04:05 -0500, "Jimmie D" wrote in : snip I must admit I never built a single transistor PA before SO I will have to look at the numbers again. Granted the push pull amp is more efficent than the single ended amp Not necessarily.... but Im still not sure about the gain. Il have to crank the #s when I dont have a snoot full of cold medicine. Please correct me if I am wrong but you are saying that two amps biased for say classB operation that a 2 transistor anp will have 6 db more output than a 1 transistor amp with the same drive power. No, just 3dB. Double your pleasure, double your fun. SO you are saying 3db more power with the same amount of input. He probably does have an impedance matching problem , Yes he does. And his amp probably does, too. almost all amps of this type do to some degree. The impedance transformation of the transformers can almost always be improved upon by the inclusion of an adjustable L or Pi network in the output of the amp.. I know the last amp I tested had an output impedance of about 35 ohms. A matching network added to this amp increased power out, reduced harmonics and made the transistors stop popping. Impedance matching in an amp isn't a plug-n-play application. It's not as simple as reading the specs off the data sheet and punching numbers into a calculator. Since the big-signal gain of the transistors varies so much, each transistor pair much be physically measured, matched, and the impedance adjusted accordingly for maximum gain. The biggest problem with these amps is that the transformers have so few turns that they are very impedance-specific, as you discovered with your 35 ohm amp. There are only two solutions: either use transistors within a very narrow range of gain -or- change the gain (and therefore the impedance) of the transistors with negative feedback. I like the latter because it increases linearity. It does require each amp to be adjusted for any given pair of transistors, but almost all of the transistors in stock can be used because the gain range isn't nearly as limited. Yes, you can transform the impedance with a tuning network prior to the input transformer and after the output transformer, but it will limit the frequency response of the amp to a narrow bandwidth. This is how most of the so-called "broadband" CB amps are built. Most of the people who have used them know what a bitch it is to retune the amp every time you want to use it on a different part of the band. That's not "broadband" -- it's false advertising. The one I made covered the whole band pretty much, Pretty much meaning that even though it wasnt a perfect match everywhere it was still a lot better than what it was without it. |
Brian's non-linear linear
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:39:51 -0600, "PowerHouse Communications" wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message . .. Brian's amp should be pushing 18dB. If it isn't then he screwed up the matching of the transistor input and output impedances. That's one reason why I want to see his schematic. Not the best, but if you look at the third image, you will see the schematic... Or try this link, a little larger and clearer... http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d.../image1462.png Not good; and it looks like his audio processor, not his amp. Yes, you are correct.... My mistake; just a little tired last night. |
Brian's non-linear linear
Frank Gilliland wrote:
Brian's amp should be pushing 18dB. If it isn't then he screwed up the matching of the transistor input and output impedances. That's one reason why I want to see his schematic. Frank, wrong as usual. Here is an excerpt from http://rfdesign.com/microwave_millim...fiers_improve/ "Consequently, the gain of a push-pull amplifier is the same as that of an individual amplifier, where the output power is twice that of an individual amplifier. Thus, push-pull amplifiers are frequently used for combining power of individual amplifiers. However, there is more to these amplifiers than combining power. This topology of amplifiers helps cancel even harmonics and intermodulations and improves the even-order intermodulation product." Oh, let me guess... the man who wrote this article (director of engineering at Mini-Circuits) doesn't know what he's talking about either... LOL Frank... you just keep getting better & better. www.telstar-electronics.com |
Brian's non-linear linear
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:53:10 -0500, "Jimmie D"
wrote in : snip SO you are saying 3db more power with the same amount of input. That's the theory. Reality comes pretty close. snip The one I made covered the whole band pretty much, Pretty much meaning that even though it wasnt a perfect match everywhere it was still a lot better than what it was without it. Without seeing it I can only guess that your tuning was pretty low-Q; maybe not the best components, too large a coil, or perhaps some shunt resistance. |
Brian's non-linear linear
On 7 Jan 2007 08:15:32 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in .com: Frank Gilliland wrote: Brian's amp should be pushing 18dB. If it isn't then he screwed up the matching of the transistor input and output impedances. That's one reason why I want to see his schematic. Frank, wrong as usual. Here is an excerpt from http://rfdesign.com/microwave_millim...fiers_improve/ "Consequently, the gain of a push-pull amplifier is the same as that of an individual amplifier, In the document this refers to amplitude gain, not power gain. That's why the rest of the sentence says: where the output power is twice that of an individual amplifier. You must have missed that part, huh? Thus, push-pull amplifiers are frequently used for combining power of individual amplifiers. Works for me. However, there is more to these amplifiers than combining power. This topology of amplifiers helps cancel even harmonics and intermodulations and improves the even-order intermodulation product." Good citation, Brian. Too bad you can't understand what it means. Oh, let me guess... the man who wrote this article (director of engineering at Mini-Circuits) doesn't know what he's talking about either... LOL Frank... you just keep getting better & better. LOL!!! Where's that schematic, Brain? |
Brian's non-linear linear
Frank Gilliland wrote:
In the document this refers to amplitude gain, not power gain. That's why the rest of the sentence says: where the output power is twice that of an individual amplifier. You must have missed that part, huh? Thus, push-pull amplifiers are frequently used for combining power of individual amplifiers. Works for me. However, there is more to these amplifiers than combining power. This topology of amplifiers helps cancel even harmonics and intermodulations and improves the even-order intermodulation product." Good citation, Brian. Too bad you can't understand what it means. Nice try Frank... www.telstar-electronics.com |
Brian's non-linear linear
On 7 Jan 2007 09:10:20 -0800, "Telstar Electronics"
wrote in . com: Frank Gilliland wrote: In the document this refers to amplitude gain, not power gain. That's why the rest of the sentence says: where the output power is twice that of an individual amplifier. You must have missed that part, huh? Thus, push-pull amplifiers are frequently used for combining power of individual amplifiers. Works for me. However, there is more to these amplifiers than combining power. This topology of amplifiers helps cancel even harmonics and intermodulations and improves the even-order intermodulation product." Good citation, Brian. Too bad you can't understand what it means. Nice try Frank... Do you actually need me to draw you a picture? |
Brian's non-linear linear
Frank Dullard wrote:
Do you actually need me to draw you a picture? Please do Mr. Dullard... I hope your drawing skills are better than your electronic skills. www.telstar-electronics.com |
Brian's non-linear linear
Frank Gilliland wrote:
Good citation, Brian. Too bad you can't understand what it means. "Consequently, the gain of a push-pull amplifier is the same as that of an individual amplifier, where the output power is twice that of an individual amplifier. Thus, push-pull amplifiers are frequently used for combining power of individual amplifiers. However, there is more to these amplifiers than combining power. This topology of amplifiers helps cancel even harmonics and intermodulations and improves the even-order intermodulation product." Frank, not sure which part of this paragraph (taken from RF design site) you don't understand. It says that the gain of a push-pull amp is the same as for a single device. Read it a few times Frank... maybe it'll sink in... LOL www.telstar-electronics.com |
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