UHF CB Radios: Are they still alive in NZ?
 

I am interested in buying a portable UHF CB radio, which operates between
the 476.425 and 477.400 MHz frequency range. I have had a listen to these
frequencies on my Yaesu Communications Receiver and I haven't yet heard
anyone using them. Is CB radio fairly dead in NZ these days? Apparently the
26 MHz sets are being phased out, but you used to be able to find dozens of
people to talk to on the 26.330 to 26.570 MHz range a few years ago. I do
quite a bit of tramping about the hills and I thought a CB set might give a
bit of added security, but there don't seem to be many repeaters available
yet, and if hardly anyone is listening to the UHF channels, I guess a CB set
would be a bit useless for security purposes?

Is there a calling channel on the UHF sets that most people use? It seems
that CB radio these days is confined to talking between two people who are
situated close to each other, that is, within about 3 to 5km. In addition,
the other person would need to know when to listen out for you, because it
seems you are not likely to come into contact with someone you don't know
because there are so few people on the air.

Another question, can the signal from a 5 watt CB set travel two and a
half times further than the signal sent from a 2 watt set? Two watt sets are
advertised as having a maximum range of about 4 kms (on the flat and without
major obstructions like hills and high buildings), so would a 5 watt set
have a maximum range of 10kms, or don't radio waves travel in an exact
proportion to the power output?

I am looking at buying either the Uniden UHO44 XR (2 watts) or the
Uniden UHO52 XR (5 watts). Are these good sets?

Thanks, Fred

26/27meg sets still crop up regularly on trademe, so some folks must still
be using them.
Odd aside - hams are dropping the need for cw, I've heard. So there could be
more folks heading in that direction (and away from CB).

Bb


"Fred" wrote in message
...
I am interested in buying a portable UHF CB radio, which operates between
the 476.425 and 477.400 MHz frequency range. I have had a listen to these
frequencies on my Yaesu Communications Receiver and I haven't yet heard
anyone using them. Is CB radio fairly dead in NZ these days? Apparently
the
26 MHz sets are being phased out, but you used to be able to find dozens
of
people to talk to on the 26.330 to 26.570 MHz range a few years ago. I do
quite a bit of tramping about the hills and I thought a CB set might give
a
bit of added security, but there don't seem to be many repeaters available
yet, and if hardly anyone is listening to the UHF channels, I guess a CB
set
would be a bit useless for security purposes?

Is there a calling channel on the UHF sets that most people use? It seems
that CB radio these days is confined to talking between two people who are
situated close to each other, that is, within about 3 to 5km. In addition,
the other person would need to know when to listen out for you, because it
seems you are not likely to come into contact with someone you don't know
because there are so few people on the air.

Another question, can the signal from a 5 watt CB set travel two and a
half times further than the signal sent from a 2 watt set? Two watt sets
are
advertised as having a maximum range of about 4 kms (on the flat and
without
major obstructions like hills and high buildings), so would a 5 watt set
have a maximum range of 10kms, or don't radio waves travel in an exact
proportion to the power output?

I am looking at buying either the Uniden UHO44 XR (2 watts) or the
Uniden UHO52 XR (5 watts). Are these good sets?

Thanks, Fred

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:50:35 +1200, "Fred"
wrote:

I am interested in buying a portable UHF CB radio, which operates between
the 476.425 and 477.400 MHz frequency range. I have had a listen to these
frequencies on my Yaesu Communications Receiver and I haven't yet heard
anyone using them. Is CB radio fairly dead in NZ these days? Apparently the
26 MHz sets are being phased out, but you used to be able to find dozens of
people to talk to on the 26.330 to 26.570 MHz range a few years ago. I do
quite a bit of tramping about the hills and I thought a CB set might give a
bit of added security, but there don't seem to be many repeaters available
yet, and if hardly anyone is listening to the UHF channels, I guess a CB set
would be a bit useless for security purposes?

Because the frequencies here are open to everyone - using radios for
security work would be rather pointless. Channel datails can be found
on the Dick Smith web site - data section :-

http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.sto...ogs/DTS0000030

hope that long URL posts thru without wrap-around - data section - NZ
& AUS CB channels

In addition - these channels are not meant to be used for commercial
work.


Is there a calling channel on the UHF sets that most people use? It seems
that CB radio these days is confined to talking between two people who are
situated close to each other, that is, within about 3 to 5km. In addition,
the other person would need to know when to listen out for you, because it
seems you are not likely to come into contact with someone you don't know
because there are so few people on the air.

Another question, can the signal from a 5 watt CB set travel two and a
half times further than the signal sent from a 2 watt set? Two watt sets are
advertised as having a maximum range of about 4 kms (on the flat and without
major obstructions like hills and high buildings), so would a 5 watt set
have a maximum range of 10kms, or don't radio waves travel in an exact
proportion to the power output?

I would suggest that the signal would most definately NOT go 2 & 1/2
times further by increasing the power that much. Radio (and audio
levels) are measured using a logarithmic scale called 'decibels'. To
increase the range of the radio, it is much cheaper (and easier) to
increase the height of the aerial, or the size of the aerial.

I am looking at buying either the Uniden UHO44 XR (2 watts) or the
Uniden UHO52 XR (5 watts). Are these good sets?

Thanks, Fred



Can't help here.


Legs






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On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:50:00 +1200, Barry Lennox wrote:

A digital cell-phone will be a much better
solution. OK, out in the hills you may have a long walk to get near
cell-phone coverage

In general, the nearest ridgetop is all that's needed...

If you're paranoid, get an iridium phone.

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:50:00 +1200, Barry Lennox's reply included:
Is there a calling channel on the UHF sets that most people use?
Yes, I think there is, Check out DSE as they push the new UHF sets.

It's supposed to be Ch:11 - but (of course) you'll find most people end up chatting on that instead of changing
to another channel.

The OP also asked:
I am looking at buying either the Uniden UHO44 XR (2 watts) or the
Uniden UHO52 XR (5 watts). Are these good sets?

The UHO50 is cheaper than the 52, and the main difference seems to be the 52 has a VOX capability.
You might also check out the price of a spare battery for it/them - I've been quoted $145 for one!

The UHO50 might be found on speacial at Dick Smith's

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:23:36 +1200, Fred wrote:

Thanks Barry and others for your informative replies. When I talked
about security, I meant being able to find someone to talk to if you got
lost or fell down a cliff etc. If you have a CB set with you and you are
lost in dense bush, at least searchers can listen out for your signal if
they know the frequencies you are likely to use. In circumstances like
this, where no cell phone signal is available (and this often happens in
the bush believe me) a CB radio could be really useful in an emergency.

A UHF CB would be just as useless as a cellular phone in such a case.

If you're that worried, carry a locator beacon. That's what they're
designed for and satellites have the advantage of looking damned near
straight down, so terrain is irrelevant.

Oh BTW, always take an unwanted CD with you and learn to use it as a
signal mirror, they work great, BUT DO NOT TAKE A MICRO$OFT one, you
know how insecure their stuff is !

If you're going to take half a helioscope, you should make sure you know
how to use and aim it. the hole in the middle is there for a reason on the
old-style ones, as was the matchstick thingie with the loop on the end. It
makes aiming trivial, even if you can't see the light hitting the far
target.

Hint, look through the hole, hold a stick at arms length, line up the end
of the stick on the target, then aim the sunspot so the hole is
surrounding the end of the stick. You have pinpoint illumination and no
shaking is required. If someone's looking in your direction, you'll get
their attention fast.

This works at distances in excess of 50km. I've used it to setup antennas
- it's a good idea to confirm you're aiming at the right remote hilltop...

Practice helps....

Barry Lennox wrote:
in nz.general09sbkv4em73nmp7fpgrato4fe94mfc4a32@4ax. com,

: On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:50:35 +1200, "Fred"
: wrote:
:
: I am interested in buying a portable UHF CB radio, which operates between
: the 476.425 and 477.400 MHz frequency range. I have had a listen to these
: frequencies on my Yaesu Communications Receiver and I haven't yet heard
: anyone using them. Is CB radio fairly dead in NZ these days? Apparently the
: 26 MHz sets are being phased out, but you used to be able to find dozens of
: people to talk to on the 26.330 to 26.570 MHz range a few years ago. I do
: quite a bit of tramping about the hills and I thought a CB set might give a
: bit of added security, but there don't seem to be many repeaters available
: yet, and if hardly anyone is listening to the UHF channels, I guess a CB set
: would be a bit useless for security purposes?
:
: CB is pretty dead-ish these days (Thank god!) Most were far too big
: and ugly to haul about anyway. Any radio is useless for "security
: work" Somebody will hear you. A digital cell-phone will be a much

Um ... I kinda got the impression that the "security" he was after was
precisely so that somebody *could* hear him ... if need be.

: better solution. OK, out in the hills you may have a long walk to get
: near cell-phone coverage, but they are reliable, small and light.
: Check both Tele$com and Voda$one coverage maps to see which has the
: best coverage for your intended tramping.

snip

: I am looking at buying either the Uniden UHO44 XR (2 watts) or the
: Uniden UHO52 XR (5 watts). Are these good sets?
:
: Uniden does have a reasonable name, but I don't know about the
: specifics of those sets.

A friend just last week took his marine Uniden MC610 VHF radiotelephone to
the local Uniden agents for repair. It was made in 1997 (date on the pcb).
It's suddenly stopped transmitting, but still receives. They *refused* to
service or repair it. When pressed, the chap took it out back to at least
determine whether the microphone or unit itself was at fault. Mic was OK.
That was it. He said he was told that *if* he could get a schematic and find
a tech elsewhere who would service it, good luck, but they wouldn't do it.
Or couldn't. Six years, and obsolete/unserviceable. He'd bought it there!
http://www.uniden.co.nz
Rather riled at this treatment, my friend went across the road and bought
the latest Icom as a replacement, vowing never to buy Uniden again ...
YMMV ... then again, maybe not. OTOH, Icom in NZ don't seem to list CB
http://www.icom.co.nz

: Barry Lennox

Ross Matheson

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:11:12 +0000, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
wrote:


If you're that worried, carry a locator beacon. That's what they're
designed for and satellites have the advantage of looking damned near
straight down, so terrain is irrelevant.

That's not a bad idea, they are quite cheap nowadays, at least for the
1/2 freq ones. Be aware though, that around 90+ % of all alerts are
false. And the satellites can only locate you within quite a large
sphere. Then it's down to the SAR air and ground teams. A signal
mirror and loud whistle will help them locate you much more easily.

The 406MHz COSPAS/SARSAT ones are much more accurate, typically about
200-300metres just from a satellite fix, but they are also much more
expensive. Depends on how much you are worth!


If you're going to take half a helioscope, you should make sure you know
how to use and aim it. the hole in the middle is there for a reason on the
old-style ones, as was the matchstick thingie with the loop on the end. It
makes aiming trivial, even if you can't see the light hitting the far
target.

With a CD. I just hold my thumb at arms length over the target, then
sight through the CD hole, and get the reflection onto my thumb, hence
the target. Works great, and it seems like they are custom made for
signal mirrors.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:23:36 +1200, "Fred" wrote:
I understand that the main future value in New Zealand UHF CB sets is that,
within a year or two, the number of UHF repeaters will be extended quite a
lot, and this includes privately owned repeaters that will be available to
the public.

Remember, of course, that as things stand at the moment, you will not be able to use a CB after 30th June 2006.

That's when the 'general license' expires.(It'll probably get rolled over of course)

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:35:16 +1200, Barry Lennox wrote:

The 406MHz COSPAS/SARSAT ones are much more accurate, typically about
200-300metres just from a satellite fix, but they are also much more
expensive. Depends on how much you are worth!

It won't be long before the new generation combines a gps fix with the
distress squawk.

With a CD. I just hold my thumb at arms length over the target, then
sight through the CD hole, and get the reflection onto my thumb, hence
the target. Works great, and it seems like they are custom made for
signal mirrors.

The problem with using your thumb is that your hand will obscure more of
the reflection than a stick will.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:26:46 +0000, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:35:16 +1200, Barry Lennox wrote:

The 406MHz COSPAS/SARSAT ones are much more accurate, typically about
200-300metres just from a satellite fix, but they are also much more
expensive. Depends on how much you are worth!

It won't be long before the new generation combines a gps fix with the
distress squawk.

They already exist right now, and have done for about 6 years, but
they are expensive, and that won't come down too much. The problem is
the 121.5/243 MHz ones cannot support embeddded data, and
COSPAS/SARSAT plans to stop monitoring these freqs in 2006 (I think,
maybe 2008) because of this limitation and the VERY high rate of false
alarms, over 90% in most countries, inc NZ.

The 406 MHz ones certainly support embedded data, but you pay a lot
for them. The big cost driver is the very stable oscillator required,
plus the many thousands required for certification.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:16:47 +0000, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:38:13 +1200, Barry Lennox wrote:

It won't be long before the new generation combines a gps fix with the
distress squawk.

They already exist right now, and have done for about 6 years, but
they are expensive, and that won't come down too much.

Wanna bet? There are moves afoot to push the devices into all sorts of
transport equipment which don't currently have 'em (and arguably don't
need 'em in most parts of the world)

I would, but whatever happens does happen, This has not been discussed
at COSPAS/SARSAT meetings I have minutes for. I think you may be
confused with some other beacons.


The problem is
the 121.5/243 MHz ones cannot support embeddded data, and
COSPAS/SARSAT plans to stop monitoring these freqs in 2006 (I think,
maybe 2008) because of this limitation and the VERY high rate of false
alarms, over 90% in most countries, inc NZ.

That and the satellites are already way past their use-by date, plus there
are the usual interference issues. Txing on 121.5 is awkward (airband)
anyway.

Use-by date? They do get replaced ! "Interference issues"? Like
what, In every ITU region and WARC these frequencies are very
agressively protected. The UWB case is an excellent example.

"Txing on 121.5 is awkward" WTF?! Quite a few A/C carry either a D/F
or homing system that lets them localise the beacon source. In
addition, early every decent A/C Comm Rx has a "Guard" Rx on 121.5 to
detect a beacon. That is the whole point of it, and how the SAR and
aviation infrastructure has grown in the past 50+ years.

The 406 MHz ones certainly support embedded data, but you pay a lot
for them. The big cost driver is the very stable oscillator required,
plus the many thousands required for certification.

This will come down rapidly. The oscillators can be selftweaking off GPS
clocking information, providing ongoing accuracy feedback and
substantially reducing setup costs.

Hmmm, none of the 3 beacon manufacturers I have dealt with over the
past 4 years would agree. The certification costs can only go up.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:33:53 +1200, "Fred"
wrote:


In practical terms, what do you suggest that conscientious Kiwi trampers
should take with them when they spend a few days in the bush?

A few first aid bits.
All the other safety stuff, pocket knife, strong cord, razor blades,
pen, paper, etc, etc
A very loud whistle
A CD (signal mirror)
A cellphone (If you are remotely near coverage)
Perhaps a day/night flare
A space blanket (Aluminized mylar)
Several options for fire-lighting, don't rely on just one. A fire is
one of the greatest life-savers. Not only does it give you warmth, but
it's also a signaling mechanism, as well as keeping your spirits
up.Just be careful not to set off the greatest bush fire ever known!
Some sort of beacon or MRS set, see below.


Are these
locator beacons available in NZ and for what price?

Yes, anywhere from about $350-400 upwards

Who sells them?

Most of the safety/camping/map shops

Do
these beacons put out a strong signal?

Yes, quite strong enough.

What battery power do they require?

Sometimes a special pack, manufacturer provided, but some have 4 or 6
alkaline AA cells in a battery pack

How long does the beacon transmit for after it is turned on?

Varies with the battery type and temp, often 20-50 hours, with the
transmitted power falling off towards the end

Can the signal
from one of these beacons be obstructed by a heavy bush canopy in the
same way that GPS and cell phone signals can?

Yes, it can, but the satellites are well above you, so they have a
better chance.


Is the signal from a locator beacon monitored 24
hours a day?

Yes.

How is the information passed on to the authorities and by whom?

Through the COSPAS/SARSAT organisation. Bear in mind that it takes two
satellite passes to resolve the position ambiguity, and the
positioning accuracy is quite poor with the low-cost beacons, often
around 20Km, a huge area. The 406 MHz ones are much better, during
some trials, we managed to set one off accidentally. The first pass
put our position 67 miles out, the second pass was 380 feet.

Bear in mind that over 90% of all such beacon activations are false
alarms. If I was taking one out, I'd leave notice with friends, etc
that I would activate the beacon for say, 111 minutes, then turn it
off for exactly, say 47 minutes, then back on for 4 hours, or some
"coded sequence" like that. This is not an approved system or method,
but it would pretty much eliminate it as just another damm false
alarm. They would have to pass it on to police and the SAR center
after hearing of a beacon activation, or suspecting a problem.


Incidentally, I can't see why the signal from a 5-watt UHF radio
would not be picked up by someone listening to the emergency channel,
particularly when it was known that a person was lost. A helicopter search
for example would probably pick up such a signal, as would someone
on the top of a nearby high hill.

Sure they would, 5 watts will typically go 80-120 miles in an good
air-ground link. BUT, you must be transmitting on the same freq they
were receiving on. And how would they know you were lost in the first
place?

An MRS, Mountain Radio Set would also be a good option to hire, they
do require a bit of messing about to setup and some limited skill to
operate. The big thing about them, is there is a regular monitoring
watch with probably a large number of operators each night. So there
is a good chance you will get through to somebody, somewhere in NZ.

Best of luck, be careful.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:50:37 +1200, "Fred"
wrote:
Thanks very much Barry for a most informative reply. It concerns me that
some trampers / hikers think you are a bit paranoid or overanxious
Fred,

I have just found my "standard-minimum" hiking kit, and it's listed
below. You may find it useful, but I'll bet you get plenty of s******s
from those who have never been in a tricky situation.

Many, many, years ago, 3 of us did get a bit in the pooh. While we
were young and fit, as well as having plenty of survival training, we
had a tense day and night until we found our way out. The kit below
would have been a big help!

My list:

Matches, waterproof in a 35mm film cannister
candle stub
Bic butane lighter
Zippo lighter
several Band-Aids and a crepe bandage
2-3 safety pins
a dozen or so Disprin
magnifying glass
small bottle alcohol, about 75 mL.
Water purifying tablets
fish hooks and line
nylon parachute cord
Space blanket
A good solid pocket knife, or survival knife
2 x compass (one good, one standby cheapie)
Maps as required
A very loud whistle
2 x CDs
5 x single edged razor blades
pencil and paper
sunglasses
small roll of duct tape
LED flashlight and spare batteries
Plastic bags large and small
A 35 mm cannister holding cotton wool balls soaked in vaseline (a
great firestarter)
Waxed cardboard box to hold some of the above (secondary duty as
firestarter)


While it reads like a lot, it's all very compact and light.

While it's out of print, for sure, I often see used copies of an
excellent little book: "How to Survive in NZ" by Flt Lt B Hildreth.
It's worth a study, and I would generally carry it, depending on how
weight fussy I am. He used to teach survival techniques to RNZAF
airman cadets, and last I heard he was running a survival school in
the UK