On Thu, 13 May 2004 13:45:36 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:



Right, but it's the responsibility of every citizen to apply the
social equivalent of peer pressure to those who refuse to "tow the
line". This form of intimidation was widely employed in days long
gone, but has largely been abandoned in this age of indifference.

Dave, peer pressure might work among friends, but complete strangers
couldn't give a rats ass.


You'd be surprised at just how many people's habits are influenced by
the habits of other, complete strangers. Take a look at some of the
ridiculous fashion trends over the years, which have nonetheless
become popular, for the most obvious evidence of this peer influence.


People need to be made aware that "minor laws" are not always as
"minor" as they may think. Many people believed that crimes such as
cable TV theft of service were "minor" because what was being stolen
was not physically tangible. But when the lost revenue for the cable
companies were added to the picture, it's not such a "victimless"
crime.

Speeding, on the surface, does not seem to be a big deal either. But
consider what can happen when there is a traffic mishap. Speed lessens
reaction time, and increases the potential for damage and injury.

Most laws were not created to ruin people's fun. They were created to
protect society as a collective whole.


There would be no reason for me to go chasing after a speeder
and pull along side of him and start to berate him on how
he was speeding. It would just **** him off and maybe create
an even worse situation, road rage.

Maybe so, but if people routinely did this, there would be a lot
less
people speeding, and the cops would have an easier job.

Sorry, I'll disagree. Each to their own opinion

Ok, you have the right to disagree. Since you do not agree with my
idea of active community involvement in awareness of laws, then what
would you suggest that we, as a society, do to stem the rising tide of
indifference to laws?

There's a difference with "community" involvement and State
involvement. While I might say something to someone in my
town, I will not bother with some guy on the highway, that
would never see me again in a million years.

So, can I assume then that you have no alternative answer? Should we
just allow society to regress in much the same manner as operators on
CB radio did?



Any cop will tell you not to confront a law breaker, call them and
let them know, that is their job. Throw a ball in front of a speeding
car, make him swerve, possibly crash, injure himself or someone
other, you will be the law breaker, not the speeder.

That would not be a good idea. But leaving a little "note" on the
offender's car every time it happens, including the forwarding of
their license number to the cops, might make someone think a little.

To get a ticket, an officer must see the offence happen,
just telling him that Jimmie was speeding won't do anything.
Maybe if we all lived in Mayberry RFD something might
happen, but not in this day & age.

Maybe that needs to change to some degree. You're right of course, and
that knowledge just enables lawbreakers. Perhaps if people could be
cited without a LEO physically witnessing the offense, the problem
would diminish.

Never happen, due process of the law. We are not deputized
by the local government to enforce the law. Also, same issue
as with enforcing FCC rules by local law, we would have to
go through many hour or training, do you have the time? I
don't raising two kids working 9+ hours a day.


Technology offers yet another solution. GPS technology and OBD-II
emission control systems can be integrated to the point where all
functions of the car can be monitored. If the car travels down a road
over the posted speed limit, it sends a little "On-Star" type message
to a LEO, and a ticket in then issued. This has the added benefit of
enabling the tracking of the car if it were to be stolen. This is
similar to the idea of mounting cameras to take pictures of people
running red lights.
People will scream "Big Brother". But maybe that's what it takes when
you can't trust people to behave on their own.

Already done, dismissed in the courts. A rental car agency
was doing that, issuing speeding tickets to thier customers,
the courts ordered them to stop.

There's a difference between a rental car agency and a provision in
the law. If the law were changed, it would be allowed. Your testimony
only proves that the technology is viable.


As a parent, I have become very conscious of people speeding through
residential neighborhoods. I would hate to have my kid or an
neighbor's kid fall victim to someone who's ignoring a "nuisance" law.

Good Luck! I've gone to the city and county councils, tried
to get the street closed at one end, to prevent all the people
from speeding down my street to get over to their street
faster, but not a chance. Speed bumps? Yeah right! I
don't want to hear the sound of cars "jumping" the speed
bumps at all hours of the night & day. So the best they
can offer is "selective" enforcement, LOL!! Useless!

Hmm.... I'm not sure how I want to proceed here. On the one hand I can
lambast you for your duplicitous position with regard to "selective"
speeding (It's ok, just don't do it on my street).

Yeah you could, but then this thread will have gone from a
civil thread to an abusive thread.

Not really. I don't lambast people directly, only their ideas.


I am a little that way, as for
around town I don't really speed, out in the coutry side, on
the bike, yeah. But again about the worst that can happen there
is tha I kill myself. As for on the freeway, Bronco doesn't go
over 70MPH, so don't speed there. My other cars on the
freeway, I'll admit that I ocassionally go over the speed limit,
but nothing dramatic, most cars are still passing me, so the
cops go by me and catch the guy that's going 20-30 MPH
over the speed limit.

Same thing here. I never speed in a residential area. I may push it to
60 or 62 MPH on the highway, since they can't cite you in Pa, until
you exceed 5 MPH over the limit.


On the other hand,
I might be tempted to say that you give up too easily. Politicians
have to answer to the people, usually those who make the most noise.
Record the problem. Present the issue to the town council, their
decisions are public record. Make it known that if, at some point in
the future, a kid does get killed due to a speeding car, that they can
be held as a party to the crime, due to their negligence, and refusal
to act to mitigate the situation in the face of irrefutable evidence.

That's correct, petitions, 80% of residents, they still didn't care.
Yes, it usually takes a fatality for locals to install stops signs,
speed enforcement etc etc in the state of California.
You usually can not hold a California politician accountably
unless they show gross disregard or criminal activity.

Those petitions and other actions that you take can be admitted as
evidence. Their lack of response can then be interpreted as "gross
negligence". Most juries would be more inclined to side with the dead
kid's parents than a do-nothing politician.

Maybe if a few cases set precedent, other local politicians will sit
up and take notice.

Dave
"Sandbagger"