OT - Think about it.
 

This is a must read - it's short but Very informative! The Muslim
religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United
States, especially in the minority races. Allah or Jesus? by
Rick Mathes.

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required
for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the
training session there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths,
who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to
say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam,
complete with a video. After the presentations, time was
provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and
asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that
most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad
[Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing
an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured
of a place in heaven.

If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without
hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let
me make sure I have this straight.

All Followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone
who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that
correct?" The expression on his face changed from one of
authority and command to that of a little boy who had just
gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly
replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to
imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill
those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do
the same in order to go to Heaven!" The Imam was
speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when
you and Your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill
me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have
your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven
or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to
Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head
in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters
of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with
Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the
truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but
with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU,
there is no way this will be widely publicized.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true
story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in
prison ministry.

Steveo wrote in message ...
This is a must read - it's short but Very informative! The Muslim
religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United
States, especially in the minority races. Allah or Jesus? by
Rick Mathes.

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required
for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the
training session there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths,
who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to
say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam,
complete with a video. After the presentations, time was
provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and
asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that
most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad
[Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing
an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured
of a place in heaven.

If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without
hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let
me make sure I have this straight.

All Followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone
who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that
correct?" The expression on his face changed from one of
authority and command to that of a little boy who had just
gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly
replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to
imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill
those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do
the same in order to go to Heaven!" The Imam was
speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when
you and Your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill
me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have
your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven
or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to
Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head
in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters
of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with
Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the
truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but
with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU,
there is no way this will be widely publicized.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true
story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in
prison ministry.

This is not a true story, it is an urban legend. See below.

THE REAL DEAL!!!!
Reporter Greg Kearney, writing for the Lee News Service, traced the
story to a correctional facility in Fulton, Missouri, and came away
with a decidedly different version of events from Missouri state
officials.

According to Tim Kniest, Public Information Officer for the Missouri
Department of Corrections, the event described was a training program
for prison volunteers, for which ministers from several faiths were
invited to give presentations in order to acquaint prison volunteers
with the varied religious beliefs of the inmate population. The man
who gave the presentation about Islam was not a Muslim minister; he
was an inmate pressed into service to present a short film on Islam
and answer some questions when the prison's Volunteer Coordinator was
"unable to find an Imam to speak."

Moreover, reported Mr. Kniest, the prison's Volunteer Coordinator said
that "The inmate did a good job," adding, "He was asked a few
questions
that were beyond his ability to answer. But he was not asked anything
like that question [in the editorial]":
Kniest said that no such exchange as the editorial reported ever took
place. "He certainly did not 'Hang his head in shame'," said Kniest.
In fact, the inmate was thanked by the assembly before being escorted
back to his
quarters. Furthermore, Kniest says there were absolutely no questions
asked dealing with jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world
as reported in the editorial.

In the editorial the inmate is presented as an Imam, or Islamic
minister, which he clearly was not.
Whatever transpired at the prison session referred to above, the
notion expressed by this piece is a complete lie. Islam is not a
monolithic religion in which unanimity of belief and action is
coordinated from a central authority. Islam has an estimated two
billion adherents in countries all over the world who belong to any
one of a number of different sects with varying beliefs, traditions,
and interpretations of scripture. (As well, some religious groups
identify themselves as Islamic but are not recognized as such by the
vast majority of Muslims.) No one Muslim (especially one who wasn't
even a cleric) could speak to what all of Islam believes, any more
than a single member of a Methodist congregation could speak for
every denomination and follower of Christianity. The vast majority of
Muslims
completely reject the idea that "all followers of Allah have been
commanded to
kill everyone who is not of their faith," or even the suggestion that
such an interpretation has ever been a valid tenet of Islam. We sent
this piece to several Muslim groups and invited them to offer
comments; they provided somewhat different explanations about the
concept of jihad, how Muslims regard non-Muslims, and other related
topics, but they all agreed that the editorial presented a grossly
distorted and bigoted version of their beliefs.

So what is the definition of an infidel according to the Muslim
religion, dogie?

(Psychiatrist to keyclowns) wrote:
Steveo wrote in message
...
This is a must read - it's short but Very informative!

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
So what is the definition of an infidel according to the Muslim
religion, dogie?

Ask that nitwit president you elected. He's dumb enough to buy this tripe.

"U Know Who" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
...
So what is the definition of an infidel according to the Muslim
religion, dogie?

Ask that nitwit president you elected. He's dumb enough to buy this
tripe.

Tough titties libby..he's -YOUR- President too.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:49:13 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip
(as stereotyped
by Max Rohmer)


Correction: That should be Sax Rohmer.








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"U Know Who" wrote:
Stop it Frank!!! You might make Steveo think. He's used to having Bush
program him.

Blow it out your crybaby ass, Randy. What a ****ing sore loser you
turned out to be.

You put Bush in the Governor's seat, long before you put him in the
Oval office. Now quit your sniveling, and get back to life. Crying
about GWB everyday is not very good for your metal health.

Are you gonna run these ****sticks again in four years?

http://tinyurl.com/53l6j


I'll tell you right now, I ain't voting for those losers next time either.

Frank Gilliland wrote:
I would suggest you stop by your local Mosque to ask these questions.
I think you will find that these are people just as normal as you and
me..... ok, maybe a bit -more- normal.


No thanks, I don't trust anything they may say. Your definition of -normal-
is suspect at best. Hell, the local Cleveland Imam has terrorist ties.

The media had not been kind to Fawaz Damra, the imam at the Islamic Center
of Cleveland. The Wall Street Journal questioned why he and other Muslim
clerics did not denounce terrorism. The NBC Dateline program on October 28
raised the same question, as did a feature article by the Associated Press,
showing Damra in front of the Islamic Center.

Then on November 4, The Plain Dealer (Cleveland, Ohio) revealed that the Al
Farooq mosque in Brooklyn, New York, had sponsored the Alki Fah Refugee
Center. The Center collected money to send to Peshawar, Pakistan, in
support of Afghan chieftains, including Osama bin Laden.

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:49:13 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip
(as stereotyped
by Max Rohmer)

Correction: That should be Sax Rohmer.

The English mystery writer.

On 28 Nov 2004 12:10:58 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:
I would suggest you stop by your local Mosque to ask these questions.
I think you will find that these are people just as normal as you and
me..... ok, maybe a bit -more- normal.


No thanks, I don't trust anything they may say. Your definition of -normal-
is suspect at best. Hell, the local Cleveland Imam has terrorist ties.

The media had not been kind to Fawaz Damra, the imam at the Islamic Center
of Cleveland. The Wall Street Journal questioned why he and other Muslim
clerics did not denounce terrorism. The NBC Dateline program on October 28
raised the same question, as did a feature article by the Associated Press,
showing Damra in front of the Islamic Center.

Then on November 4, The Plain Dealer (Cleveland, Ohio) revealed that the Al
Farooq mosque in Brooklyn, New York, had sponsored the Alki Fah Refugee
Center. The Center collected money to send to Peshawar, Pakistan, in
support of Afghan chieftains, including Osama bin Laden.


Again, the few radicals do not represent the religion. When I was a
kid I once went to visit a Catholic church with a friend, but before I
did I got warnings from family and friends (mostly Protestants) about
how the Catholics would try and manipulate me and drag me into their
'cult'. Needless to say that didn't happen (and no, I wasn't molested
either).

As far as your trust goes, I don't trust people I don't know either.
But that doesn't mean I won't listen to what they have to say. If
forced to make a choice I would sooner trust a stranger than the
media. But to believe that Muslims are bad folk because of a few bad
apples doesn't make sense. You could say the same about nearly every
other organization in America. Even the USPS has had their share of
murderous whackos, but that doesn't prevent you from going into a post
office, does it?

Just go there and talk to them. They won't shove an AK-47 in your face
when you walk in the door. And I don't think you are afraid of being
brainwashed with what you assume will be lies -- I'm sure you are a
reasonable person that can draw your own conclusions after having
heard both sides of the story. They won't kidnap you and hold you for
ransom, they won't try and brainwash you, and they won't kill you if
you leave without bowing to Mecca. So it won't hurt you to ask
questions. The worst that can happen is that you will get answers
which support your current opinion. At best, you may learn about a
religion that has more in common with Judeo/Christian ideology than
you might think, and you walk away with a better understanding of a
different religion and culture.

I say go for it. Do I need to double-dog-dare you? ;-)







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On 28 Nov 2004 12:14:02 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:49:13 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip
(as stereotyped
by Max Rohmer)

Correction: That should be Sax Rohmer.

The English mystery writer.


Yep, creator of the character 'Dr. Fu Manchu'.






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Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 28 Nov 2004 12:14:02 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:49:13 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip
(as stereotyped
by Max Rohmer)

Correction: That should be Sax Rohmer.

The English mystery writer.

Yep, creator of the character 'Dr. Fu Manchu'.

Was he afraid of yellow people before or after? :D

Frank Gilliland wrote:
I say go for it. Do I need to double-dog-dare you? ;-)

LOL! Nope, but somehow I see trouble developing if I drag my red-neck ass
into a mosque and start asking questions about their terrorist ties. HA!

On 28 Nov 2004 12:47:33 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 28 Nov 2004 12:14:02 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:49:13 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip
(as stereotyped
by Max Rohmer)

Correction: That should be Sax Rohmer.

The English mystery writer.

Yep, creator of the character 'Dr. Fu Manchu'.

Was he afraid of yellow people before or after? :D


I don't know if fear was a factor for his work. But he did create a
stereotype. It was even adopted in other fictional characters such as
Dr. No (James Bond), Ming from the Buck Rogers serials, and that bad
guy Lo Pan in "Big Trouble in Little China" (made back when Kim
Catrall was hot).







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Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 28 Nov 2004 12:47:33 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 28 Nov 2004 12:14:02 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:49:13 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip
(as stereotyped
by Max Rohmer)

Correction: That should be Sax Rohmer.

The English mystery writer.

Yep, creator of the character 'Dr. Fu Manchu'.

Was he afraid of yellow people before or after? :D

I don't know if fear was a factor for his work. But he did create a
stereotype. It was even adopted in other fictional characters such as
Dr. No (James Bond), Ming from the Buck Rogers serials, and that bad
guy Lo Pan in "Big Trouble in Little China" (made back when Kim
Catrall was hot).

Dope might be an interesting read.

Kazmah the 'dream reader' and other memorable characters populate this tale
of terror, as sinister Eastern forces work to control the west through the
opium trade... Sax Rohmer, creator of Fu Manchu, returns to the Yellow
Menace theme that so characterized his work.

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:35:02 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip

Just one more push then I'll shut up -- Was there ever a time when you
thought you and I could never, ever have a civil conversation? I'm
sure you did and so did I. But that has changed, hasn't it? Ok, so why
not give the -true- Muslims the benefit of the doubt long enough to
see if they can prove to you that they are not about 'killing the
infidels'?






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Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:35:02 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip

Just one more push then I'll shut up -- Was there ever a time when you
thought you and I could never, ever have a civil conversation? I'm
sure you did and so did I. But that has changed, hasn't it? Ok, so why
not give the -true- Muslims the benefit of the doubt long enough to
see if they can prove to you that they are not about 'killing the
infidels'?

True, at one time you and I were really at each others throats. For
that reason it's probably a good thing we have so MANY miles between
us, or who knows what might have went down. It likely wouldn't have
been pretty.

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
"U Know Who" wrote:
Stop it Frank!!! You might make Steveo think. He's used to having Bush
program him.

Blow it out your crybaby ass, Randy. What a ****ing sore loser you
turned out to be.

You put Bush in the Governor's seat, long before you put him in the
Oval office.

I appologize for that. Look where it got us.

Now quit your sniveling, and get back to life. Crying
about GWB everyday is not very good for your metal health.

Are you gonna run these ****sticks again in four years?

http://tinyurl.com/53l6j



God, I hope not. Did you forget it's not that I was *for* Kerry, just that I
was not for Bush?


I'll tell you right now, I ain't voting for those losers next time either.

Can't blame you.

"U Know Who" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
Are you gonna run these ****sticks again in four years?

http://tinyurl.com/53l6j


God, I hope not. Did you forget it's not that I was *for* Kerry, just
that I was not for Bush?


Were there other choices that had a viable chance of being elected? I
hate these political threads..they usually end up in an argument. :)

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
"U Know Who" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
Are you gonna run these ****sticks again in four years?

http://tinyurl.com/53l6j


God, I hope not. Did you forget it's not that I was *for* Kerry, just
that I was not for Bush?


Were there other choices that had a viable chance of being elected?

No, our system needs fixing, starting with the electoral college.

I
hate these political threads..they usually end up in an argument. :)

I wont bring up religion. :-)

Steveo wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:35:02 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip

Just one more push then I'll shut up -- Was there ever a time when you
thought you and I could never, ever have a civil conversation? I'm
sure you did and so did I. But that has changed, hasn't it? Ok, so why
not give the -true- Muslims the benefit of the doubt long enough to
see if they can prove to you that they are not about 'killing the
infidels'?


True, at one time you and I were really at each others throats. For
that reason it's probably a good thing we have so MANY miles between
us, or who knows what might have went down. It likely wouldn't have
been pretty.

yeah hitting each other over the head with your canes would make a mess :p

jim wrote:
Steveo wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:35:02 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip

Just one more push then I'll shut up -- Was there ever a time when you
thought you and I could never, ever have a civil conversation? I'm
sure you did and so did I. But that has changed, hasn't it? Ok, so why
not give the -true- Muslims the benefit of the doubt long enough to
see if they can prove to you that they are not about 'killing the
infidels'?


True, at one time you and I were really at each others throats. For
that reason it's probably a good thing we have so MANY miles between
us, or who knows what might have went down. It likely wouldn't have
been pretty.

yeah hitting each other over the head with your canes would make a mess
:p

Hehe..'I've fallen, and I can't get up!'

"jim" wrote in message
...
Steveo wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:35:02 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip

Just one more push then I'll shut up -- Was there ever a time when you
thought you and I could never, ever have a civil conversation? I'm
sure you did and so did I. But that has changed, hasn't it? Ok, so why
not give the -true- Muslims the benefit of the doubt long enough to
see if they can prove to you that they are not about 'killing the
infidels'?


True, at one time you and I were really at each others throats. For
that reason it's probably a good thing we have so MANY miles between
us, or who knows what might have went down. It likely wouldn't have
been pretty.

yeah hitting each other over the head with your canes would make a mess :p

Oh Bad Jim, pretty funny, but bad.

Landshark

--
My bad..the camera is mightier than the blowhard(s)..in most respects.

itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge
wrote:
"U Know Who" wrote
I'll tell you right now, I ain't voting for those losers next time
either.

Can't blame you.

LOL what a kiss ass post Randy, steve in other words told you to **** off

Nah, I've always got along good with Randy.

Landshark wrote:

"jim" wrote in message
...

Steveo wrote:


Frank Gilliland wrote:


On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:35:02 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip

Just one more push then I'll shut up -- Was there ever a time when you
thought you and I could never, ever have a civil conversation? I'm
sure you did and so did I. But that has changed, hasn't it? Ok, so why
not give the -true- Muslims the benefit of the doubt long enough to
see if they can prove to you that they are not about 'killing the
infidels'?


True, at one time you and I were really at each others throats. For
that reason it's probably a good thing we have so MANY miles between
us, or who knows what might have went down. It likely wouldn't have
been pretty.

yeah hitting each other over the head with your canes would make a mess :p


Oh Bad Jim, pretty funny, but bad.

Landshark

come to think about it and they wouldn't have the strength to get the
canes up that high so they'd probably be poking each others vericose
veins...

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:00:01 GMT, "U Know Who"
wrote in
:

snip
I don't think he'll last that long.


I don't either.






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On 28 Nov 2004 13:56:06 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

snip
Anyway, I'm off to go job hunting.


On Sunday? Well in your trade I 'spose that's possible.


Not just my trade -- there are lots of people that search for jobs in
the Sunday newspaper.





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Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 28 Nov 2004 13:56:06 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

snip
Anyway, I'm off to go job hunting.


On Sunday? Well in your trade I 'spose that's possible.

Not just my trade -- there are lots of people that search for jobs in
the Sunday newspaper.

Oh, when you said 'off to go' it sounded like you were leaving the house.

On 28 Nov 2004 20:50:47 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 28 Nov 2004 13:56:06 GMT, Steveo
wrote in :

snip
Anyway, I'm off to go job hunting.


On Sunday? Well in your trade I 'spose that's possible.

Not just my trade -- there are lots of people that search for jobs in
the Sunday newspaper.

Oh, when you said 'off to go' it sounded like you were leaving the house.


Off the computer. Then I went grocery shopping, came home and watched
some pigskin, got bored and now I'm back 'on' the computer.






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On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:56:12 -0600, itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge
wrote in
:

snip
Yeah sure you are gilligan, that's why you will be un employed still come
tommorow.


I'm not unemployed. I'm self-employed with my shop. But a second job
certainly wouldn't hurt.






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From: (Steveo)
Frank Gilliland wrote: I say go for it.
Do I need to double-dog-dare you? ;-)
_
LOL! Nope, but somehow I see trouble developing if I drag my red-neck
ass into a mosque and start asking questions about their terrorist ties.
HA!
_
Tell them you're interested in learning to fly.

"Twistedhed" wrote in message
...
From: (Steveo)
Frank Gilliland wrote: I say go for it.
Do I need to double-dog-dare you? ;-)
_
LOL! Nope, but somehow I see trouble developing if I drag my red-neck
ass into a mosque and start asking questions about their terrorist ties.
HA!
_
Tell them you're interested in learning to fly.

And that you really don't care about the landing part.

"U Know Who" wrote:
"Twistedhed" wrote in message
...
From: (Steveo)
Frank Gilliland wrote: I say go for it.
Do I need to double-dog-dare you? ;-)
_
LOL! Nope, but somehow I see trouble developing if I drag my red-neck
ass into a mosque and start asking questions about their terrorist ties.
HA!
_
Tell them you're interested in learning to fly.

And that you really don't care about the landing part.

Praise to Allah, you capitalist swine! lol