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APRS Safety Question
Hi all
I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? cheers Peter |
peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:17:
I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? This works well for me - Lean slightly forward, apply gentle pressure with index finger to button on radio labelled PWR. -- Roger Barker, G4IDE - For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk |
peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:17:
I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? This works well for me - Lean slightly forward, apply gentle pressure with index finger to button on radio labelled PWR. -- Roger Barker, G4IDE - For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk |
Droll... very droll...
Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump gets toasted. Seriously how are most mobile packet setups wired? Are they wired into the ignition which would turn the radio off when you turn off the engine? The problem with this is that if someone steals your car and parks it somewhere you won't be able to determine its location. I'd be keen to hear how people wire and use their mobile setups. Thanks Peter "Roger" wrote in message ... peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:17: I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? This works well for me - Lean slightly forward, apply gentle pressure with index finger to button on radio labelled PWR. -- Roger Barker, G4IDE - For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk |
Droll... very droll...
Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump gets toasted. Seriously how are most mobile packet setups wired? Are they wired into the ignition which would turn the radio off when you turn off the engine? The problem with this is that if someone steals your car and parks it somewhere you won't be able to determine its location. I'd be keen to hear how people wire and use their mobile setups. Thanks Peter "Roger" wrote in message ... peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:17: I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? This works well for me - Lean slightly forward, apply gentle pressure with index finger to button on radio labelled PWR. -- Roger Barker, G4IDE - For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk |
peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:55:
Droll... very droll... Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump gets toasted. Then switch it off before you go into the filling station. Seriously how are most mobile packet setups wired? Are they wired into the ignition which would turn the radio off when you turn off the engine? The problem with this is that if someone steals your car and parks it somewhere you won't be able to determine its location. I think you may be misunderstanding something - Most mobile APRS installations use a transceiver and a normal ham antenna, they are not clandestine installations. So if someone steals your car, unless they are stupid, they will very probably switch it off. However, wiring it via the ignition does not solve your perceived problem, unless you are in the habit of switching off the engine and coasting up to the pump! [snip] -- Roger Barker, G4IDE - For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk |
peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:55:
Droll... very droll... Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump gets toasted. Then switch it off before you go into the filling station. Seriously how are most mobile packet setups wired? Are they wired into the ignition which would turn the radio off when you turn off the engine? The problem with this is that if someone steals your car and parks it somewhere you won't be able to determine its location. I think you may be misunderstanding something - Most mobile APRS installations use a transceiver and a normal ham antenna, they are not clandestine installations. So if someone steals your car, unless they are stupid, they will very probably switch it off. However, wiring it via the ignition does not solve your perceived problem, unless you are in the habit of switching off the engine and coasting up to the pump! [snip] -- Roger Barker, G4IDE - For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk |
In article ,
peter berrett wrote: (snip) Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump gets toasted. (snip) How would this happen? Could there really be sparking from the aerial or something (which you think you'd notice because it might interfere with your radio operation) or could it just get really hot? Is the idea that the EM radiation alone could cause ignition? I just have a hard time understanding this risk - the only blowing-up instances I'm aware of involved naked flames, yet you'd have thought that cars were inherently full of spark potential anyway being full of metal bits with high-current wiring. -- Mark |
In article ,
peter berrett wrote: (snip) Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump gets toasted. (snip) How would this happen? Could there really be sparking from the aerial or something (which you think you'd notice because it might interfere with your radio operation) or could it just get really hot? Is the idea that the EM radiation alone could cause ignition? I just have a hard time understanding this risk - the only blowing-up instances I'm aware of involved naked flames, yet you'd have thought that cars were inherently full of spark potential anyway being full of metal bits with high-current wiring. -- Mark |
The issue of filling station fires and explosions from cell phone use
has been extensively investigated per what I think was a complete PBS program on this that I watched. In short, at cell phone power levels, they were totally unable to provoke explosions or fires from arcing or whatever. What they did discover is that the real problem with explosions and fires at filling stations, other than the obvious like smoking and other open flames, was in the static issue from people sliding off car seats! The build-up of static electricity on the person's body getting out of the vehicle and the resultant spark when they discharged to whatever the next touched, or brushed, was the very surprising and real danger of explosions and fires in filling station accidents. And on another note, per my long ago training in aviation safety as a long time flight instructor here in the USA, ambient temperature is related to this in an interesting way. As the temperature goes down, way down, the gasoline vapor ignition hazard goes down and the jet fuel hazard goes up! Haven't thought about extending that thought to modern auto-life. But one would think that if you are way down in temperature, a diesel vehicle owner would be more at risk from swishing across a neat cloth seat than a gasoline vehicle owner. Per the article seen, at cell phone power levels and around that, one can pretty well forget causing havoc with them. I'm not passing judgement here, wouldn't yap on a device in a service station anyway. Just passing on what I saw on TV. W5WQN peter berrett wrote: Hi all I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? cheers Peter -- -- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;) Mike Luther |
The issue of filling station fires and explosions from cell phone use
has been extensively investigated per what I think was a complete PBS program on this that I watched. In short, at cell phone power levels, they were totally unable to provoke explosions or fires from arcing or whatever. What they did discover is that the real problem with explosions and fires at filling stations, other than the obvious like smoking and other open flames, was in the static issue from people sliding off car seats! The build-up of static electricity on the person's body getting out of the vehicle and the resultant spark when they discharged to whatever the next touched, or brushed, was the very surprising and real danger of explosions and fires in filling station accidents. And on another note, per my long ago training in aviation safety as a long time flight instructor here in the USA, ambient temperature is related to this in an interesting way. As the temperature goes down, way down, the gasoline vapor ignition hazard goes down and the jet fuel hazard goes up! Haven't thought about extending that thought to modern auto-life. But one would think that if you are way down in temperature, a diesel vehicle owner would be more at risk from swishing across a neat cloth seat than a gasoline vehicle owner. Per the article seen, at cell phone power levels and around that, one can pretty well forget causing havoc with them. I'm not passing judgement here, wouldn't yap on a device in a service station anyway. Just passing on what I saw on TV. W5WQN peter berrett wrote: Hi all I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? cheers Peter -- -- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;) Mike Luther |
In article ,
says... snippety I think the degree of work I've done with my van qualifies as "experienced," so I'll be happy to answer on this. ;-) When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. The "RF sources causing a spark which causes ignition" is, as far as I can tell, little more than a modern myth. Static electric discharge is far more likely to cause ignition than any RF source of the power levels that amateur or cellular equipment puts out. For example: You pull up to the pump, get out, start the fuel going. The biggest and most dangerous mistake you can then possibly make, especially if you're wearing synthetic-laden clothing and/or shoes, is to get back in your car to do something, then get back out and touch the metal of the fuel dispenser handle. The effect is the exact same thing as scuffing your feet on a carpet, or getting up out of a synthetic chair, and touching a doorknob. ZAPP!! With a big enough spark, and enough fuel vapor around the filler port, you could easily cause a small fire or risk of an explosion. Best possible thing you can do: Touch the metal body of your car at least a foot or so away from the filler port BEFORE you touch the pump dispenser. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? Well, I make it a point to touch body metal, away from the filler pipe, before I touch the pump dispenser handle. That, and I make it a habit of never getting back into the car between the time I start and stop fueling. I have also left my own 25-watt APRS transceiver powered and operational during many fuel stops. Never once did I feel the least threatened by it, and never once has it caused a problem. Worry about ESD. It's a far greater threat than any RF source. -- Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute (Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR) kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available - http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) |
I see State Police cars filling up every day. They have 10 times the RF
and radios that Hams could ever imagine. |
I see State Police cars filling up every day. They have 10 times the RF
and radios that Hams could ever imagine. |
Then switch it off before you go into the filling station.
And how close to the tanks could one be without switching off? How about passing the station on the street, possibly with the tank vent pipes between the street (i.e. yourself) and the pumps? The major problem you'd have is static electricity. RF will pose no problem in the normal amounts emitted by a standard mobile rig (i.e., 5-50 wts). The ignition method most commonly seen is static buildup, person does not discharge against the car body before touching the nozzle (grounded to the pump via the hose...it has a wire mesh and/or grounding wire built into it). Nice spark results, as does ignition of the vapors. One thing that was noted....women are more likely to have this happen...best guess is due to two reasons. One, material in clothing may be higher in static-generating capability. Second, on cold days, women tend to return to the car and wait for the tank to fill. When they get out, they're a nice static source looking for a ground. The nozzle provides that. As for RF, we used to use an old Clegg FM27B to test the electronics (faraday chamber)....never had any fuel ignition problems, and the lockup problems were mostly due to ground loop situations which were resonant on some more commonly used frequency, such as 400 mhz +/-. Drove one prototype unit nuts until the chief engineer (also a ham) happened to key his 70cm rig when sitting by the unit. Turns out the local police liked the donuts sold at the station...... A (ex-R&D/Sales at a pump company) |
Then switch it off before you go into the filling station.
And how close to the tanks could one be without switching off? How about passing the station on the street, possibly with the tank vent pipes between the street (i.e. yourself) and the pumps? The major problem you'd have is static electricity. RF will pose no problem in the normal amounts emitted by a standard mobile rig (i.e., 5-50 wts). The ignition method most commonly seen is static buildup, person does not discharge against the car body before touching the nozzle (grounded to the pump via the hose...it has a wire mesh and/or grounding wire built into it). Nice spark results, as does ignition of the vapors. One thing that was noted....women are more likely to have this happen...best guess is due to two reasons. One, material in clothing may be higher in static-generating capability. Second, on cold days, women tend to return to the car and wait for the tank to fill. When they get out, they're a nice static source looking for a ground. The nozzle provides that. As for RF, we used to use an old Clegg FM27B to test the electronics (faraday chamber)....never had any fuel ignition problems, and the lockup problems were mostly due to ground loop situations which were resonant on some more commonly used frequency, such as 400 mhz +/-. Drove one prototype unit nuts until the chief engineer (also a ham) happened to key his 70cm rig when sitting by the unit. Turns out the local police liked the donuts sold at the station...... A (ex-R&D/Sales at a pump company) |
In article ,
says... Hi again It looks like I've started World War III with this topic. This can happen on Usenet. Please don't top-post. I lost the context of the specific message you were replying to because you did so. I think it is a shame that some are glossing over the topic because safety with petroleum is a serious issue. Maybe APRS does not pose a hazard but the topic deserves serious discussion. Of course it's a serious issue. It's just that electrostatic discharge is a far greater hazard around filling stations than any amount of RF energy would be. The bottom line is that you should worry more about what you're wearing, and whether your body is carrying a static charge, than about whether you've got an active transmitter. The signs you see are presenting more disinformation than anything else, and I'm sorry that those who mandated they be put in place didn't do their homework a little better. 73 de KC7GR -- Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute (Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR) kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available - http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) |
In article ,
says... Hi again It looks like I've started World War III with this topic. This can happen on Usenet. Please don't top-post. I lost the context of the specific message you were replying to because you did so. I think it is a shame that some are glossing over the topic because safety with petroleum is a serious issue. Maybe APRS does not pose a hazard but the topic deserves serious discussion. Of course it's a serious issue. It's just that electrostatic discharge is a far greater hazard around filling stations than any amount of RF energy would be. The bottom line is that you should worry more about what you're wearing, and whether your body is carrying a static charge, than about whether you've got an active transmitter. The signs you see are presenting more disinformation than anything else, and I'm sorry that those who mandated they be put in place didn't do their homework a little better. 73 de KC7GR -- Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute (Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR) kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available - http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) |
peter berrett wrote:
Hi all I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? cheers Peter Urban legend. See http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp for a full discussion. -- Jim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. |
peter berrett wrote:
Hi all I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen. This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with. When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a risk of causing a fire. Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any, are taken to deal with this problem? cheers Peter Urban legend. See http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp for a full discussion. -- Jim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. |
Would not even need a laptop; just a Palm to do this.
You could even use a PalmPhone, and add to it a "kill switch" on the ignition, a flow restictor on the gas (won't go over 10kph) or a "park lock override" on the transmission (if automatic) which would prevent the vehicle from getting out of Park. Would take the fun out of using APRS, but you'd get your car back a lot faster. On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:42:27 +1100, "peter berrett" wrote: snip Equipment: 1 x old notebook computer with sound card to act as modem 1 x mouse gps - usb connection 1 x 2m ht The idea is that the ht would sit on 144.900 mhz and listen for aprs packets. It would however only supply an aprs packet if polled remotely (ie you have to send it a special code to start transmitting aprs packets) however so most of the time there is no transmission. If you fill up at a pretrol station there is no danger because your setup is not transmitting at all. Say your car gets stolen. You send a particular code through the aprs system and tell the notebook computer to start transmitting aprs packets every minute. You then track the car until the police catch up with it. Workable but safe? Very safe. The story about risk at petrol stations form RF has been disproven as an Urban Legend. cheers Peter -- Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT. |
Would not even need a laptop; just a Palm to do this.
You could even use a PalmPhone, and add to it a "kill switch" on the ignition, a flow restictor on the gas (won't go over 10kph) or a "park lock override" on the transmission (if automatic) which would prevent the vehicle from getting out of Park. Would take the fun out of using APRS, but you'd get your car back a lot faster. On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:42:27 +1100, "peter berrett" wrote: snip Equipment: 1 x old notebook computer with sound card to act as modem 1 x mouse gps - usb connection 1 x 2m ht The idea is that the ht would sit on 144.900 mhz and listen for aprs packets. It would however only supply an aprs packet if polled remotely (ie you have to send it a special code to start transmitting aprs packets) however so most of the time there is no transmission. If you fill up at a pretrol station there is no danger because your setup is not transmitting at all. Say your car gets stolen. You send a particular code through the aprs system and tell the notebook computer to start transmitting aprs packets every minute. You then track the car until the police catch up with it. Workable but safe? Very safe. The story about risk at petrol stations form RF has been disproven as an Urban Legend. cheers Peter -- Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT. |
Man, you're in big trouble if the wife knows you're on the Internet
spouting that women give off more static than men! On 09 Feb 2004 14:08:55 GMT, (AA) wrote: Then switch it off before you go into the filling station. And how close to the tanks could one be without switching off? How about passing the station on the street, possibly with the tank vent pipes between the street (i.e. yourself) and the pumps? The major problem you'd have is static electricity. RF will pose no problem in the normal amounts emitted by a standard mobile rig (i.e., 5-50 wts). The ignition method most commonly seen is static buildup, person does not discharge against the car body before touching the nozzle (grounded to the pump via the hose...it has a wire mesh and/or grounding wire built into it). Nice spark results, as does ignition of the vapors. One thing that was noted....women are more likely to have this happen...best guess is due to two reasons. One, material in clothing may be higher in static-generating capability. Second, on cold days, women tend to return to the car and wait for the tank to fill. When they get out, they're a nice static source looking for a ground. The nozzle provides that. As for RF, we used to use an old Clegg FM27B to test the electronics (faraday chamber)....never had any fuel ignition problems, and the lockup problems were mostly due to ground loop situations which were resonant on some more commonly used frequency, such as 400 mhz +/-. Drove one prototype unit nuts until the chief engineer (also a ham) happened to key his 70cm rig when sitting by the unit. Turns out the local police liked the donuts sold at the station...... A (ex-R&D/Sales at a pump company) Spammers, please send email to: and get your SMTP server blacklisted! |
Man, you're in big trouble if the wife knows you're on the Internet
spouting that women give off more static than men! On 09 Feb 2004 14:08:55 GMT, (AA) wrote: Then switch it off before you go into the filling station. And how close to the tanks could one be without switching off? How about passing the station on the street, possibly with the tank vent pipes between the street (i.e. yourself) and the pumps? The major problem you'd have is static electricity. RF will pose no problem in the normal amounts emitted by a standard mobile rig (i.e., 5-50 wts). The ignition method most commonly seen is static buildup, person does not discharge against the car body before touching the nozzle (grounded to the pump via the hose...it has a wire mesh and/or grounding wire built into it). Nice spark results, as does ignition of the vapors. One thing that was noted....women are more likely to have this happen...best guess is due to two reasons. One, material in clothing may be higher in static-generating capability. Second, on cold days, women tend to return to the car and wait for the tank to fill. When they get out, they're a nice static source looking for a ground. The nozzle provides that. As for RF, we used to use an old Clegg FM27B to test the electronics (faraday chamber)....never had any fuel ignition problems, and the lockup problems were mostly due to ground loop situations which were resonant on some more commonly used frequency, such as 400 mhz +/-. Drove one prototype unit nuts until the chief engineer (also a ham) happened to key his 70cm rig when sitting by the unit. Turns out the local police liked the donuts sold at the station...... A (ex-R&D/Sales at a pump company) Spammers, please send email to: and get your SMTP server blacklisted! |
I agree with the comment at the end. I'm no lawyer, but what about
the liability you have by activating a transmitter in a stolen car and blowing up the thief and a gas station? Are there laws against booby-trapping cars? On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:45:41 GMT, Jim Higgins wrote: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:42:27 +1100, in , "peter berrett" wrote: Hi again It looks like I've started World War III with this topic. I think it is a shame that some are glossing over the topic because safety with petroleum is a serious issue. Maybe APRS does not pose a hazard but the topic deserves serious discussion. Perhaps... but except for a few who have done some research and posted that the original premise was nothing but an urban legend to begin with, the most it's getting here is speculation. [snip] Say your car gets stolen. You send a particular code through the aprs system and tell the notebook computer to start transmitting aprs packets every minute. You then track the car until the police catch up with it. Workable but safe? Pretending for a moment the original premise is true... what happens if the thief decides to gas up the stolen car? I don't think this solution shows proper safety consideration for all the children that might be killed by it. ;-) Spammers, please send email to: and get your SMTP server blacklisted! |
I agree with the comment at the end. I'm no lawyer, but what about
the liability you have by activating a transmitter in a stolen car and blowing up the thief and a gas station? Are there laws against booby-trapping cars? On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:45:41 GMT, Jim Higgins wrote: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:42:27 +1100, in , "peter berrett" wrote: Hi again It looks like I've started World War III with this topic. I think it is a shame that some are glossing over the topic because safety with petroleum is a serious issue. Maybe APRS does not pose a hazard but the topic deserves serious discussion. Perhaps... but except for a few who have done some research and posted that the original premise was nothing but an urban legend to begin with, the most it's getting here is speculation. [snip] Say your car gets stolen. You send a particular code through the aprs system and tell the notebook computer to start transmitting aprs packets every minute. You then track the car until the police catch up with it. Workable but safe? Pretending for a moment the original premise is true... what happens if the thief decides to gas up the stolen car? I don't think this solution shows proper safety consideration for all the children that might be killed by it. ;-) Spammers, please send email to: and get your SMTP server blacklisted! |
"DxxxxxBxx" wrote in message ... Are there laws against booby-trapping cars? No, we have had women drivers for years, now. Charles, N5PVL |
"DxxxxxBxx" wrote in message ... Are there laws against booby-trapping cars? No, we have had women drivers for years, now. Charles, N5PVL |
Last year my car was stolen in St Kilda and was found 6 months later parked about 10 blocks east of where it was stolen. An APRS system would have been very useful. I also dream about somebody stealing my car so I use APRS to track where it is and advise the Police. Then when they give me the signal I kill the engine by remote control and possibly have a digital camera installed in the car to photograph the driver. :) Could be fun. I'd almost want someone to steal my car! cheers Peter wrote in message ... Would not even need a laptop; just a Palm to do this. You could even use a PalmPhone, and add to it a "kill switch" on the ignition, a flow restictor on the gas (won't go over 10kph) or a "park lock override" on the transmission (if automatic) which would prevent the vehicle from getting out of Park. Would take the fun out of using APRS, but you'd get your car back a lot faster. On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:42:27 +1100, "peter berrett" wrote: snip Equipment: 1 x old notebook computer with sound card to act as modem 1 x mouse gps - usb connection 1 x 2m ht The idea is that the ht would sit on 144.900 mhz and listen for aprs packets. It would however only supply an aprs packet if polled remotely (ie you have to send it a special code to start transmitting aprs packets) however so most of the time there is no transmission. If you fill up at a pretrol station there is no danger because your setup is not transmitting at all. Say your car gets stolen. You send a particular code through the aprs system and tell the notebook computer to start transmitting aprs packets every minute. You then track the car until the police catch up with it. Workable but safe? Very safe. The story about risk at petrol stations form RF has been disproven as an Urban Legend. cheers Peter -- Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT. |
Last year my car was stolen in St Kilda and was found 6 months later parked about 10 blocks east of where it was stolen. An APRS system would have been very useful. I also dream about somebody stealing my car so I use APRS to track where it is and advise the Police. Then when they give me the signal I kill the engine by remote control and possibly have a digital camera installed in the car to photograph the driver. :) Could be fun. I'd almost want someone to steal my car! cheers Peter wrote in message ... Would not even need a laptop; just a Palm to do this. You could even use a PalmPhone, and add to it a "kill switch" on the ignition, a flow restictor on the gas (won't go over 10kph) or a "park lock override" on the transmission (if automatic) which would prevent the vehicle from getting out of Park. Would take the fun out of using APRS, but you'd get your car back a lot faster. On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:42:27 +1100, "peter berrett" wrote: snip Equipment: 1 x old notebook computer with sound card to act as modem 1 x mouse gps - usb connection 1 x 2m ht The idea is that the ht would sit on 144.900 mhz and listen for aprs packets. It would however only supply an aprs packet if polled remotely (ie you have to send it a special code to start transmitting aprs packets) however so most of the time there is no transmission. If you fill up at a pretrol station there is no danger because your setup is not transmitting at all. Say your car gets stolen. You send a particular code through the aprs system and tell the notebook computer to start transmitting aprs packets every minute. You then track the car until the police catch up with it. Workable but safe? Very safe. The story about risk at petrol stations form RF has been disproven as an Urban Legend. cheers Peter -- Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT. |
Man, you're in big trouble if the wife knows you're on the Internet spouting
that women give off more static than men! Heh...can you say "Tesla Generator?" One thing that was noted....women are more likely to have this happen...best guess is due to two reasons. One, material in clothing may be higher in static-generating capability. Ah, sometimes the truth hurts.......ME! (Ouch, hon, PLEASE quit hitting me with that frying pan....!) A |
Man, you're in big trouble if the wife knows you're on the Internet spouting
that women give off more static than men! Heh...can you say "Tesla Generator?" One thing that was noted....women are more likely to have this happen...best guess is due to two reasons. One, material in clothing may be higher in static-generating capability. Ah, sometimes the truth hurts.......ME! (Ouch, hon, PLEASE quit hitting me with that frying pan....!) A |
I don't believe you'd REALLY blast someone at another petrol pump -- isn't that an urban (or rural) legend? R |
I don't believe you'd REALLY blast someone at another petrol pump -- isn't that an urban (or rural) legend? R |
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