killing cars with RF?
 

Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

killing cars with RF?
 

In article .com,
says...
Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

Eveing Nelson,

I ran 2 Jeeps with a 706 in it. 20 watts on 2 meters, 100 watts on both
6 and HF

Make sure your amataur gear is thoughily grounded. If possible, keep
the main unit as far to the rear of the jeep as possible Run the power
from the battery (with appropriate fusing) and not the cigarette lighter
or accessory outlet

I did get some stereo front-end overload, mostly on 40 meters, so I
turned the stereo volume down

Each jeep left this wokrd with over 250k miles and I never had to
replace any audio component or vehicle computer component

But, yes, if you damage many components if you aren't careful with your
installation

GL

Steve KF2TI
usually mobile 17 meters

killing cars with RF?
 

In article .com,
"KE5MBX" wrote:

Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

A few years ago. while in freeway traffic, my Chrysler minivan suddenly
kicked into "limp" mode (no response, low rpm, second gear only), as a
CB-er in a large van passed next to me. He had one of those stupid fat
antennas with the gigantic "loading coil," and had to have been running
a few KW for the Good Buddies.
The auto companies are well aware of the havoc RFI/EMI can wreak on a
vehicle's microprocessor-based control systems for engine, drivetrain,
braking,etc., not to mention the entertainment and navigation systems.
I once had the opportunity to see the RF testing lab at the tech center
of one of the "Big 3." It was a pretty impressive array of equipment and
testing environments, and they try to anticipate and head off "worst
case" problems.

ARRL has some good info on the subject:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/carproblems.html

Chuck WV8A Detroit MI

killing cars with RF?
 

In message , Chuck
Reti writes
In article .com,
"KE5MBX" wrote:

Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

A few years ago. while in freeway traffic, my Chrysler minivan suddenly
kicked into "limp" mode (no response, low rpm, second gear only), as a
CB-er in a large van passed next to me. He had one of those stupid fat
antennas with the gigantic "loading coil," and had to have been running
a few KW for the Good Buddies.
The auto companies are well aware of the havoc RFI/EMI can wreak on a
vehicle's microprocessor-based control systems for engine, drivetrain,
braking,etc., not to mention the entertainment and navigation systems.
I once had the opportunity to see the RF testing lab at the tech center
of one of the "Big 3." It was a pretty impressive array of equipment and
testing environments, and they try to anticipate and head off "worst
case" problems.

ARRL has some good info on the subject:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/carproblems.html

Chuck WV8A Detroit MI

I have a Vauxhall (GM) Astra diesel. In the handbook it specifies 10W
max for onboard transmitters, at all frequencies. I haven't been /M in
it, but would hope to run a bit more than that, say, what I have run in
the past (40W on 10m, and 30W on 2m). I suppose I'll find out!
Ian.
--

killing cars with RF?
 

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:24:38 -0500, Chuck Reti
wrote:

In article .com,
"KE5MBX" wrote:

Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

A few years ago. while in freeway traffic, my Chrysler minivan suddenly
kicked into "limp" mode (no response, low rpm, second gear only), as a
CB-er in a large van passed next to me. He had one of those stupid fat
antennas with the gigantic "loading coil," and had to have been running

You are not describing a CB antenna.

a few KW for the Good Buddies.
The auto companies are well aware of the havoc RFI/EMI can wreak on a
vehicle's microprocessor-based control systems for engine, drivetrain,
braking,etc., not to mention the entertainment and navigation systems.

And Chrysler had a V-6 (I was going to purchase one) that ran the
computer on 147.00. One of those would drowned out the local repeater
that was only 2 miles away from a distance of nearly 3/4 of a city
block. I worked with the local dealer for several weeks, but we could
not get Chrysler to even admit to a problem.

I once had the opportunity to see the RF testing lab at the tech center
of one of the "Big 3." It was a pretty impressive array of equipment and
testing environments, and they try to anticipate and head off "worst
case" problems.

ARRL has some good info on the subject:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/carproblems.html

Actually, due to Chrysler's refusal to even talk about the matter I
ended up with a Toyota 4-Runner and I run one whale of a lot more than
100 watts even on 2-meters.

To top it off the Toyota mechanics ran the wiring for me, so all I had
to do was plug in the radios, stick on the antennas and go.
Currently I just have the 50 watt TM-D700 (35 watts on 440) and a 160
watt out Mirage amp on 144. It runs closer to 180 watts on the Bird
watt meter. I also have the Yaesu FT-897D, but I'm presently using it
in my shop as a back up rig. When back in the car that will be capable
of running about 600 watts out.

Chuck WV8A Detroit MI
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

killing cars with RF?
 

Roger wrote:
CB-er in a large van passed next to me. He had one of those stupid fat
antennas with the gigantic "loading coil," and had to have been running

You are not describing a CB antenna.

Actually, he might well be. Perhaps you're lucky enough
not to have any of these people where you live, but in
my neck of the woods, in some lower-socioeconomic-status
neighborhoods, there was a wave of enormous CB antennas
with HUGE open-wire loading coils at the base, ones that
appeared to be made of 3/8" copper tubing or something
along those lines. No telling if the coils did anything
or were just for show; some of the CBers used high power
and others poured their 4 watts into these enormous
whips .. I'm seeing fewer of them on the roads these
days but they're still around. :-/


_______________________________________________
Ken Kuzenski AC4RD ken . kuzenski at duke .edu
_______________________________________________
All disclaimers apply, see? www.duke.edu/~kuzen001

killing cars with RF?
 

In article ,
Roger wrote:

You are not describing a CB antenna.

Um, Yes, I am.

In article ,
wrote:

Actually, he might well be. Perhaps you're lucky enough
not to have any of these people where you live, but in
my neck of the woods, in some lower-socioeconomic-status
neighborhoods, there was a wave of enormous CB antennas
with HUGE open-wire loading coils at the base, ones that
appeared to be made of 3/8" copper tubing or something
along those lines. No telling if the coils did anything
or were just for show; some of the CBers used high power
and others poured their 4 watts into these enormous
whips .. I'm seeing fewer of them on the roads these
days but they're still around. :-/


I don't see many of them anymore, but they're most fun to see
on top of a subcompact.

Chuck WV8A Detroit

killing cars with RF?
 

neighborhoods, there was a wave of enormous CB antennas
with HUGE open-wire loading coils at the base, ones that
appeared to be made of 3/8" copper tubing or something

I don't see many of them anymore, but they're most fun to see
on top of a subcompact.

I still see them occasionally, often on the top of big
old Suburbans for some reason. Not exactly a practical
thing--I imagine they're constantly raking trees and
overhangs and such. But I often get a grin when I see
the things. :-)

I got into mobile HF about a half-dozen years ago; I had
just bought a white 2000 Chevy Impala, mounted a 706 in
the glove compartment--or, as my wife pointed out with
real pain in her voice, where the glove compartment used
to be. :-) I had a trunk-lip-mounted Hamstick for 20 or
15, an MFJ mag-mount 6-meter quarter-wave, and a little
2meter mag mount on that car.

For a while I was puzzled at how many people in front of
me would abruptly slow down when I got behind them. Then
I realized some of the local police departments had
bought white Impalas, and seeing one festooned with
antennas (more and bigger antennas than actual police
cars) apparently made people think I might have been
"The Law." I left the 706 in that car for several
years--it was easier than un-shoehorning it out of the
dash--but took the antennas off as soon as I quit using
HF from the car, to quit scaring people. :-)


_______________________________________________
Ken Kuzenski AC4RD ken . kuzenski at duke .edu
_______________________________________________
All disclaimers apply, see? www.duke.edu/~kuzen001

killing cars with RF?
 

killing cars with RF?
 

Kenneth P. Stox wrote:

I ran into one of those guys last summer, not just one but two antenna's
as described. I chatted with him a bit and found out he was running a
10KW CB rig. I was incredulous until he popped open the hood to show me
the 5 alternators running off the engine to power it. The engine was

Dear sweet heavens. astonished whistle Wonder what sort
of gas mileage he got. :-)

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the FCC has completely
given up enforcement on the CB bands.

I think that happened many years ago. :-(


_______________________________________________
Ken Kuzenski AC4RD ken . kuzenski at duke .edu
_______________________________________________
All disclaimers apply, see? www.duke.edu/~kuzen001

killing cars with RF?
 

In message ,
writes
Kenneth P. Stox wrote:

I ran into one of those guys last summer, not just one but two antenna's
as described. I chatted with him a bit and found out he was running a
10KW CB rig. I was incredulous until he popped open the hood to show me
the 5 alternators running off the engine to power it. The engine was

Dear sweet heavens. astonished whistle Wonder what sort
of gas mileage he got. :-)


Well, 10kW = 13hp.
Allow 50% efficiency for the TX, so there's 26hp.
I don't know about the alternator - 70%?
That makes it 37hp before the vehicle moves.
Ian.
--

killing cars with RF?
 

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:16:08 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Roger wrote:
CB-er in a large van passed next to me. He had one of those stupid fat
antennas with the gigantic "loading coil," and had to have been running

You are not describing a CB antenna.

Actually, he might well be. Perhaps you're lucky enough
not to have any of these people where you live, but in
my neck of the woods, in some lower-socioeconomic-status
neighborhoods, there was a wave of enormous CB antennas

Oh, we have a bunch. Local law enforcement says about a third of the
drivers up here are driving on a suspended or revoked license...or
they never did bother to get one.

They like to run those radios, but I've never seen any of *those* big
antennas :-))

It soulds more like a lot of the ham antennas up here, particularly
for 160 and 75 when they are running 500 to 600 watts. We have a
number of those "mobile porupines" covering 1.8 through 440 or higher.
Back in the 60's I ran one that required guys to keep it from laying
down and pointing to the rear. No big loading coils or top heats, it
was just *tall*.

with HUGE open-wire loading coils at the base, ones that
appeared to be made of 3/8" copper tubing or something
along those lines. No telling if the coils did anything
or were just for show; some of the CBers used high power

Go on e-bay. You can find some huge amps for reasonable prices... if
you don't care about what the signal sounds like. OTOH there's a 2K4
on there at present (2-27) listed as a 10 meter amp. They sure
aren't going to get much out of it driving it with 4 watts at 10db of
gain. :-)) Still they do get hold of much higher powered exciters.

and others poured their 4 watts into these enormous
whips .. I'm seeing fewer of them on the roads these
days but they're still around. :-/

Other than that one Chrysler model with the particular V-6 I've not
run into any problems. Still my 4-Runner doesn't lend itself well to
HF antennas.


_______________________________________________
Ken Kuzenski AC4RD ken . kuzenski at duke .edu
_______________________________________________
All disclaimers apply, see? www.duke.edu/~kuzen001
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

killing cars with RF?
 

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:29:36 GMT, "Kenneth P. Stox"
wrote:

wrote:

I still see them occasionally, often on the top of big
old Suburbans for some reason. Not exactly a practical
thing--I imagine they're constantly raking trees and
overhangs and such. But I often get a grin when I see
the things. :-)

I ran into one of those guys last summer, not just one but two antenna's
as described. I chatted with him a bit and found out he was running a
10KW CB rig. I was incredulous until he popped open the hood to show me
the 5 alternators running off the engine to power it. The engine was
also modified to kick up the idle when the rig was one so it wouldn't
stall when keyed up.

If the tires don't skid when you key the mike you're running QRP!
:-))


I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the FCC has completely
given up enforcement on the CB bands.

They do nail a few of them that manage to creep up into 10 meters now
and then.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

killing cars with RF?
 

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 13:43:34 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message ,
writes
Kenneth P. Stox wrote:

I ran into one of those guys last summer, not just one but two antenna's
as described. I chatted with him a bit and found out he was running a
10KW CB rig. I was incredulous until he popped open the hood to show me
the 5 alternators running off the engine to power it. The engine was

Dear sweet heavens. astonished whistle Wonder what sort
of gas mileage he got. :-)


Well, 10kW = 13hp.
Allow 50% efficiency for the TX, so there's 26hp.
I don't know about the alternator - 70%?
That makes it 37hp before the vehicle moves.
Ian.

We run multiple belts to propellers from engines running that much
power. :-))

When I get my plane done...Glasair III (fiberglass with carbon fiber
horizontal stab) I plan on having up to 500 watts on HF and I'd really
like to make it 160 watts on 2-meters. 30 to 50 is plenty on 440.
However I have a longggg way to go.

In the Beech I just run the HT clipped to the inside of the door which
leaves the antenna sticking up in the window. With that set up I
typically get 50 to 75 miles with 5W FM and the rubber duck antenna.
The problem with the antenna in the window is it tends to be pretty
directive...without any gain. I've worked 150 miles with 5 watts
from 22,000 feet, but that wasn't in my plane which has a service
ceiling of only 19,500.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com