Question about using UK call in US
 

Apologies if this is a bit off-topic, but figured you guys might know this.

My call is G7TMG and I now live permanently in the US but haven't got around
to taking the US test yet and want to get on the air using my UK call.

I believe I should use W7/G7TMG (or is it G7TMG/W7?) but do I need to state
the "/" as portable if I live here full time?
Also, I presume that my UK HF privileges are no good in the US due to no
morse test???

Any info appreciated.

Sholto.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:53:00 -0800, G7TMG wrote:
Apologies if this is a bit off-topic, but figured you guys might know this.

My call is G7TMG and I now live permanently in the US but haven't got around
to taking the US test yet and want to get on the air using my UK call.

I believe I should use W7/G7TMG (or is it G7TMG/W7?) but do I need to state
the "/" as portable if I live here full time?
Also, I presume that my UK HF privileges are no good in the US due to no
morse test???

Any info appreciated.

Sholto.

See http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/amateur/about/recoperating.html
for full information.

Among other things, this says:

Reciprocal operating authority is valid until the expiration date on the
alien's amateur service license. Reciprocal operation in a place where the
Amateur Radio Service is regulated by the FCC must comply with Part 97 of
the FCC's Rules and the International Telecommunication Union Radio
Regulations. Operator privileges are those authorized by the alien's
government, but do not exceed those of the FCC Amateur Extra Class operator.

Bob, N7XY

Thanks Bob, that link proved quite informative.

It also states:

"When a station is transmitting under the privileges afforded by an amateur
service license granted by the Government of Canada or an amateur service
license granted by any other country with which the United States has a
multilateral or bilateral agreement, an indicator consisting of the
appropriate letter-numeral designating the station location must be included
in the station identification announcement. This indicator must be separated
from the assigned call sign by the slant mark (/) or any suitable word that
denotes the slant mark."

So I guess I don't need to state 'portable' unless I really am portable.
Question is, how do US amateurs say '/', is it "slant", "stroke" or "slash"
??? :)

73's W7/G7TMG


"Bob Nielsen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:53:00 -0800, G7TMG wrote:
Apologies if this is a bit off-topic, but figured you guys might know
this.

My call is G7TMG and I now live permanently in the US but haven't got
around
to taking the US test yet and want to get on the air using my UK call.

I believe I should use W7/G7TMG (or is it G7TMG/W7?) but do I need to
state
the "/" as portable if I live here full time?
Also, I presume that my UK HF privileges are no good in the US due to no
morse test???

Any info appreciated.

Sholto.

See http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/amateur/about/recoperating.html
for full information.

Among other things, this says:

Reciprocal operating authority is valid until the expiration date on the
alien's amateur service license. Reciprocal operation in a place where the
Amateur Radio Service is regulated by the FCC must comply with Part 97 of
the FCC's Rules and the International Telecommunication Union Radio
Regulations. Operator privileges are those authorized by the alien's
government, but do not exceed those of the FCC Amateur Extra Class
operator.

Bob, N7XY

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:16:13 -0800, G7TMG wrote:
Thanks Bob, that link proved quite informative.

It also states:

"When a station is transmitting under the privileges afforded by an amateur
service license granted by the Government of Canada or an amateur service
license granted by any other country with which the United States has a
multilateral or bilateral agreement, an indicator consisting of the
appropriate letter-numeral designating the station location must be included
in the station identification announcement. This indicator must be separated
from the assigned call sign by the slant mark (/) or any suitable word that
denotes the slant mark."

So I guess I don't need to state 'portable' unless I really am portable.
Question is, how do US amateurs say '/', is it "slant", "stroke" or "slash"
??? :)

I've heard all three used, but usually "stroke". Although the FCC site
indicates that the suffix goes after your call, I doubt you would get
into trouble putting it first, as that has become an international
standard recently (CEPT regulations specify this, as well as the use of
the word "stroke").

I see where CEPT no longer lists two classes of privileges (except for
a few countries), so you would probably be legal under CEPT as well as
under the reciprocal agreement.

Where in 7-land are you located? I am near Seattle.

73, Bob N7XY

I'd try to avoid using the word 'portable' if I were you. I've heard the
'Portable 5' suffix used a few times by overseas hams in the US - these
sometimes get put on the cluster as XXXX/P5 and set all the cluster alarms
off . I think your safest bet is to use /W7.

(P5 is the prefix for North Korea)


"G7TMG" wrote in message
...
Apologies if this is a bit off-topic, but figured you guys might know
this.

My call is G7TMG and I now live permanently in the US but haven't got
around
to taking the US test yet and want to get on the air using my UK call.

I believe I should use W7/G7TMG (or is it G7TMG/W7?) but do I need to
state
the "/" as portable if I live here full time?
Also, I presume that my UK HF privileges are no good in the US due to no
morse test???

Any info appreciated.

Sholto.

"Bob Nielsen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:16:13 -0800, G7TMG wrote:
Thanks Bob, that link proved quite informative.
snip



I've heard all three used, but usually "stroke". Although the FCC site
indicates that the suffix goes after your call, I doubt you would get
into trouble putting it first, as that has become an international
standard recently (CEPT regulations specify this, as well as the use of
the word "stroke").

I see where CEPT no longer lists two classes of privileges (except for
a few countries), so you would probably be legal under CEPT as well as
under the reciprocal agreement.

Where in 7-land are you located? I am near Seattle.

73, Bob N7XY

I found this from the ARRL site
(http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...ns/io/#foreign)

"No additional permit is required -- simply bring your original license,
issued by your home country when you visit the US; and be sure to identify
your station while operating by the US call district identifier (e.g.,
followed by your non-US call sign.W3/G1ABC)."

So the ARRL say it should be a prefix and the FCC say a suffix??? sounds
like these guys need to talk to each other...

Seattle is a very nice city, we've been there a few times. The XYL loves
Pike St. Market.
QTH is Coeur d'Alene, ID. Love living here too.

Used to live in the Lake District, UK and that is a great destination if you
ever make it to "Blighty".

Here's another quandry I find myself in:

I can't operate on amateur HF bands here without a CW test but I can operate
HF on marine frequencies - I also hold the GMDSS general licence for which I
didn't have to pass a CW test and is valid anywhere in the world! LOL make
sense of that one.


73's de G7TMG.

I see where CEPT no longer lists two classes of privileges (except for
a few countries), so you would probably be legal under CEPT as well as
under the reciprocal agreement.

Where in 7-land are you located? I am near Seattle.

73, Bob N7XY



I guess you're right about the CEPT privileges now they've dropped the 2
classes.

From the FCC:

"Operator privileges are those authorized by the alien's government, but do
not exceed those of the FCC Amateur Extra Class operator. "

I interpret this as being legal to operate on HF as long as I remain an
alien rather that a citizen!

Sholto, G7TMG

G7TMG wrote:

QTH is Coeur d'Alene, ID. Love living here too.

That's not /7.

Peter Lemken
DF5JT
Berlin

--
Games vs. Reality on Slashdot:
"For me its America's Army. I'm watching the nightly news of Marines clearing
houses in Fallujah and thinking to myself "Why don't they RPG that house
first, then throw in flash bangs and frag nades before kicking that door in?""

"Peter Lemken" wrote in message
...
G7TMG wrote:

QTH is Coeur d'Alene, ID. Love living here too.

That's not /7.

Peter Lemken
DF5JT
Berlin

--
Games vs. Reality on Slashdot:
"For me its America's Army. I'm watching the nightly news of Marines
clearing
houses in Fallujah and thinking to myself "Why don't they RPG that house
first, then throw in flash bangs and frag nades before kicking that door
in?""


I hope I don't mess up your WAS award but ID (Idaho) is definitely region 7
http://www.qsl.net/aa0ni/callareas.html

G7TMG

Bob Nielsen said :


See http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/amateur/about/recoperating.html
for full information.

Among other things, this says:

Reciprocal operating authority is valid until the expiration date on the
alien's amateur service license. Reciprocal operation in a place where the
Amateur Radio Service is regulated by the FCC must comply with Part 97 of
the FCC's Rules and the International Telecommunication Union Radio
Regulations. Operator privileges are those authorized by the alien's
government, but do not exceed those of the FCC Amateur Extra Class operator.

Bob, N7XY

Also note that if you are ever granted citizenship, you will no longer
be allowed to use your foreign call, and will be required to take the
FCC's exams.

I'm a Canadian residing in the US, and when I moved down my call was
VE3THX/W2 (I recall reading that the W2 bit had to be at the end), but
I elected to get a US call since I will be living here permanently and
expect to get citizenship this year.

73 de Peter, W2IRT
(ex-AB2NZ, VE3THX)

Please reply to Double-you Two Eye Are Tee at Arrl.net

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:36:37 -0800, G7TMG wrote:

"Bob Nielsen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:16:13 -0800, G7TMG wrote:
Thanks Bob, that link proved quite informative.
snip



I've heard all three used, but usually "stroke". Although the FCC site
indicates that the suffix goes after your call, I doubt you would get
into trouble putting it first, as that has become an international
standard recently (CEPT regulations specify this, as well as the use of
the word "stroke").

I see where CEPT no longer lists two classes of privileges (except for
a few countries), so you would probably be legal under CEPT as well as
under the reciprocal agreement.

Where in 7-land are you located? I am near Seattle.

73, Bob N7XY

I found this from the ARRL site
(http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...ns/io/#foreign)

"No additional permit is required -- simply bring your original license,
issued by your home country when you visit the US; and be sure to identify
your station while operating by the US call district identifier (e.g.,
followed by your non-US call sign.W3/G1ABC)."

So the ARRL say it should be a prefix and the FCC say a suffix??? sounds
like these guys need to talk to each other...

I think the FCC site is somewhat dated.


Seattle is a very nice city, we've been there a few times. The XYL loves
Pike St. Market.
QTH is Coeur d'Alene, ID. Love living here too.

Used to live in the Lake District, UK and that is a great destination if you
ever make it to "Blighty".

Been there (1982). Very nice and quiet. I'm on Bainbridge Island, 9
mi. west of Seattle.


Here's another quandry I find myself in:

I can't operate on amateur HF bands here without a CW test but I can operate
HF on marine frequencies - I also hold the GMDSS general licence for which I
didn't have to pass a CW test and is valid anywhere in the world! LOL make
sense of that one.

As I interpret both the FCC site and the latest CEPT regulations, if
the UK allows you to operate on the amateur HF bands without a code
test, you can do that here also (which surprised me a bit).

Bob N7XY

G7TMG wrote:

So the ARRL say it should be a prefix and the FCC say a suffix??? sounds
like these guys need to talk to each other...

The way I heard it: If you are operating under CEPT rules, it is
a prefix. If you have been issued a permit ("guest licence") by
FCC (as it was apparently required some years ago and still is
for countries who don't apply the CEPT recommendation), it is a
suffix. So, for a British visitor to the USA it is now a prefix.

As operation under CEPT rules implies more or less that one
is operating from a temporary location, several countries do
not require any more to use the /p or /m suffix (although they
can still be used and may be helpful in some instances). Check
also http://www.ero.dk/ for an up-to-date version of the rules.

73, Jan-Martin

Jan-Martin Hertzsch wrote:
As operation under CEPT rules implies more or less that one
is operating from a temporary location, several countries do
not require any more to use the /p or /m suffix (although they
can still be used and may be helpful in some instances). Check
also http://www.ero.dk/ for an up-to-date version of the rules.

FWIW the /p or /m has never been required in the USA.

(at one time you were required to sign with the number of the call
district you were portable or mobile in, but that regulation was
repealed at least 15 years ago)

I *believe* (but don't hold me to it...) that the /W2 as a suffix
instead of a prefix is still required if, and only if, you're Canadian.
The reciprocral treaty with Canada was negotiated first, somehow has
different status than the treaties with other countries, specifies a
suffix, and has not been amended.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

On 16 Feb 2005 05:09:39 GMT, Bob Nielsen
wrote:

See http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/amateur/about/recoperating.html
for full information.

Thanks for the URL. As I will be visiting the Seattle region soon
this comes in quite handy. /W7 it is.

The interesting thing though is that Canadian amateur licenses no
longer expire. Does that mean they are now invalid for use in the
U.S.A.? smile

Tony

"G7TMG" skrev i melding
...
Apologies if this is a bit off-topic, but figured you guys might know
this.

My call is G7TMG and I now live permanently in the US but haven't got
around
to taking the US test yet and want to get on the air using my UK call.

I believe I should use W7/G7TMG (or is it G7TMG/W7?) but do I need to
state
the "/" as portable if I live here full time?
Also, I presume that my UK HF privileges are no good in the US due to no
morse test???



Ask ARRL ! Our club provides this information.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:33:24 +0000, Walt Davidson wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:21:37 +0100, "Ragnar Otterstad"
wrote:

My call is G7TMG and I now live permanently in the US but haven't got
around
to taking the US test yet and want to get on the air using my UK call.

CEPT rules are available only to temporary visitors. Not to people
who have moved permanently to another country.

Reciprocal licensing rules would cover his operation, however.

Bob, N7XY

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:31:37 +0000, Walt Davidson wrote:
On 27 Feb 2005 01:54:47 GMT, Bob Nielsen
wrote:

CEPT rules are available only to temporary visitors. Not to people
who have moved permanently to another country.

Reciprocal licensing rules would cover his operation, however.

Yes, that's right. But it means he would need to apply to the FCC for
a reciprocal license.

Not required anymore. See

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/amateur/about/recoperating.html
(including the footnote).

Bob, N7XY

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On 27 Feb 2005 23:15:07 GMT, Bob Nielsen
wrote:

Yes, that's right. But it means he would need to apply to the FCC for
a reciprocal license.

Not required anymore. See

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/amateur/about/recoperating.html
(including the footnote).

Yes, the footnote which limits permitted operation to be within

"The operating terms and conditions of the amateur service
license granted by the alien's government".

His UK license [Paragraph 11(1)(a)] states:

"The Licensee may operate in countries which have implemented CEPT
Recommendation T/R 61-01 in accordance with the following terms:

The Licensee shall
(a) be a temporary visitor and non-resident in the host country."

Nothing could be clearer than that.

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com



Walt,

Thanks for pointing that out. I haven't had a good look through BR68 for a
while (since I last renewed my ticket about 7 years ago) but did ask the
Radio Licensing Centre when renewing this time as to using my licence in the
USA - they said "You will need to check with the US authorities for any
restrictions etc."

Interestingly 11 (1) (c) also states "The licensee shall comply with the
requirements applicable to the use of wireless telegraphy apparatus at the
location of operation in the host country"

Do you think this also implies that a valid cw test would be needed by UK
full licence holders while on vacation in the US for HF?

I can read it either way but suspect it does.

73's, G7TMG.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:56:06 -0800, G7TMG wrote:

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On 27 Feb 2005 23:15:07 GMT, Bob Nielsen
wrote:

Yes, that's right. But it means he would need to apply to the FCC for
a reciprocal license.

Not required anymore. See

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/amateur/about/recoperating.html
(including the footnote).

Yes, the footnote which limits permitted operation to be within

"The operating terms and conditions of the amateur service
license granted by the alien's government".

His UK license [Paragraph 11(1)(a)] states:

"The Licensee may operate in countries which have implemented CEPT
Recommendation T/R 61-01 in accordance with the following terms:

The Licensee shall
(a) be a temporary visitor and non-resident in the host country."

Nothing could be clearer than that.

73 de G3NYY

There are two ways of operating--CEPT provisions (which say "short
visits" without defining "short") and "reciprocal". Operating under
the reciprocal licensing agreement has no time restriction, as long as
the license is still valid (I once had a neighbor who was a permanent
resident with a UK license and had operated in the US for several years
under the reciprocal provisions). At one time it was necessary to
apply for a US reciprocal permit, but the FCC has streamlined many
things and made that automatic.


--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com



Walt,

Thanks for pointing that out. I haven't had a good look through BR68 for a
while (since I last renewed my ticket about 7 years ago) but did ask the
Radio Licensing Centre when renewing this time as to using my licence in the
USA - they said "You will need to check with the US authorities for any
restrictions etc."

Interestingly 11 (1) (c) also states "The licensee shall comply with the
requirements applicable to the use of wireless telegraphy apparatus at the
location of operation in the host country"

Do you think this also implies that a valid cw test would be needed by UK
full licence holders while on vacation in the US for HF?

I can read it either way but suspect it does.

I suspect not, since the CEPT rules were changed in 2003 to go from two
classes of licence to a single CEPT license. See
http://www.ero.dk/doc98/official/Pdf/TR6101E.PDF. There are
provisions for footnotes which could impose restrictions, but none are
used in the table relating to the US, which to me signifies that the US
will allow HF operating privileges to anyone who qualifies under CEPT
(which requires a UK FULL license). Under Appendix IV, columns 3 and 4
are blank, which I find interesting (can the holder of a US novice
license--no longer issued, but still valid and renewable-- operate with
full privileges in a CEPT country?)

Does the UK even have a morse test anymore? I suspect that most
countries which have eliminated the requirement have also eliminated
the test, which would make it rather difficult to be tested.

73,
Bob, N7XY

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:56:06 -0800, "G7TMG"
wrote:
snip
....
....
/snip

Hi!

No ... as a matter of fact I don't think so. I am inclined to
interpret that paragraph as relating to any restrictions on the use of
the equipment .... not anything to do with the qualifications involved
in getting your licence. (But I am not a lawyer!)

At the end of the day, despite all that has been said, the British
licensing authority (OFCOM) has no jurisdiction in the USA. So as
long as the FCC are happy, that's all that matters! If you clear it
with the FCC and they tell you to go ahead, then I wouldn't worry too
much about anything your UK licence might say!

73,
Walt (G3NYY)

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com


FYI Walt & Bob,

I emailed the FCC regarding my operating status being a permanent resident
and I've included the `official` reply below.
Does the line "Operator privileges are those authorized by the alien's
government" apply to the UK BR68 chapter 11 (1) (c) condition I wonder???
Also "Reciprocal Operating Arrangements" sounds like they are referring to
the previous reciprocal permit which is no longer available. Is this info
even up-to-date??

This is getting a little crazy, I feel like I'm going around in circles!

I think the best thing would be to just take the US amateur exams, the cw
test and apply for a nice new vanity callsign. LOL.

73's Sholto
G7TMG.
maybe W7/G7TMG or even W7/G7TMG/P





The case you submitted via the FCC website has been resolved. The
resolution details for Case ID [XXXX] are below.
If you have any questions contact us at (877) 480-3201.

Thank You!

Solution Summary : Amateur Radio operation by resident alien
Solution Description : Dear Sholto,

Please refer to the following web site for the Amateur service for
information on Reciprocal Operating Arrangements - Ham operators from other
countries operating in the US.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/amateur/

Reciprocal operating authority is valid until the expiration date on the
alien's amateur service license. Reciprocal operation in a place where the
Amateur Radio Service is regulated by the FCC must comply with Part 97 of
the FCC's Rules and the International Telecommunication Union Radio
Regulations. Operator privileges are those authorized by the alien's
government, but do not exceed those of the FCC Amateur Extra Class operator.

Amateur radio operators who will be in the United States for extended
periods of time are encouraged to obtain an FCC-issued amateur service
license grant. Any person, except a representative of a foreign government,
may apply for an FCC amateur service license upon passing the qualifying
examinations. An alien holding an FCC-issued amateur service license grant,
however, is not eligible for reciprocal operating authority. A FCC-issued
license grant, moreover, supersedes reciprocal operating authority.

You may also wish to contact a VEC - Volunteer Examiner Coordinator if
you have additional questions. A list of Volunteer Examiner Coordinators is
found on the Amateur site at the web site above.

Should you have any further questions, or need additional information,
please submit a request through http://esupport.fcc.gov/index.htm or call
the Auctions/ULS Hotline at (877) 480-3201, selecting option 2 after the
main menu recording.

Agent 3816 (jk)
Summary : Amateur Radio operation by resident alien

**Please do not reply back to this message. The e-mail address is
configured for outgoing e-mail only.**

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:29:06 -0800, G7TMG wrote:

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:56:06 -0800, "G7TMG"
wrote:
snip
...
...
/snip

Hi!

No ... as a matter of fact I don't think so. I am inclined to
interpret that paragraph as relating to any restrictions on the use of
the equipment .... not anything to do with the qualifications involved
in getting your licence. (But I am not a lawyer!)

At the end of the day, despite all that has been said, the British
licensing authority (OFCOM) has no jurisdiction in the USA. So as
long as the FCC are happy, that's all that matters! If you clear it
with the FCC and they tell you to go ahead, then I wouldn't worry too
much about anything your UK licence might say!

73,
Walt (G3NYY)

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com


FYI Walt & Bob,

I emailed the FCC regarding my operating status being a permanent resident
and I've included the `official` reply below.
Does the line "Operator privileges are those authorized by the alien's
government" apply to the UK BR68 chapter 11 (1) (c) condition I wonder???
Also "Reciprocal Operating Arrangements" sounds like they are referring to
the previous reciprocal permit which is no longer available. Is this info
even up-to-date??

Sections 10 and 11 relate to operation under CEPT, rather than the
reciprocal agreement (the permit is no longer needed but the agreement
is still effective). I am not a lawyer either, but I intepret both
requirements to mean that you will have privileges equivalent to those
authorized by your license (licence?), except of course you will need
to also follow the US rules on frequencies, modes and power levels.
etc. (no SSB on 7075, maximum 150 watts on 30 meters, etc.) Under the
old UK pre-2003 scheme, a B class licensee wouldn't be able to operate
in the US on frequencies below 29.7 MHz, however.


This is getting a little crazy, I feel like I'm going around in circles!

I think the best thing would be to just take the US amateur exams, the cw
test and apply for a nice new vanity callsign. LOL.

In the long run, that would probably make sense since you would have a
shorter callsign than "W7/G7TMT" or "G7TMT/W7" (the reciprocal rules
for Canada specify the latter form, since it is spelled out in a treaty
rather than FCC rules, although I doubt anyone has been cited for a
violation by using the other form). You can still keep your G call, of
course. I don't see any problems with operating under the reciprocal
agreement until you get a US license, however.

73,
Bob, N7XY

G7TMG wrote:
: I think the best thing would be to just take the US amateur exams, the cw
: test and apply for a nice new vanity callsign. LOL.

I think you're probably right!

Chris, N0UK, (ex) G4JEC

I think the best thing would be to just take the US amateur exams, the cw
test and apply for a nice new vanity callsign. LOL.

73's Sholto
G7TMG.
maybe W7/G7TMG or even W7/G7TMG/P

In principle a good idea. Learning morse is ALWAYS a good idea.


But why have you not been in contact with the US national society ARRL ?


73

Rag LA5HE

Life member of ARRL