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GMRS Watts v Distance?
Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and
someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. I currently have GMRS radios that are rated at "16 miles" (yeah, maybe on the salt flats or over water, ok, we all know about that). The are rated at 2W on the GMRS freq's and .5w on FRS. Why are the new "25 mile" units still rated at 2W? What's the difference in the two radios to justify the increased distance claims? Can't be frequency or a change to the privacy codes or they wouldn't work with older radios. Increased sensitivity/filtering? Hype? -- Steve |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
It's just marketing hype Steve. Next thing you know they will be
50-mile units. A 2-watt HT would be lucky to get one mile let alone 25. Even 5-watt GMRS commercial units (like I have) are only useable over a couple of miles unless you are line-of-sight. The ONLY way you are going to get reliable communications over that kind of distance is through a repeater. Dick - W6CCD On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:39:12 -0500, Steve Calvin wrote: Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. I currently have GMRS radios that are rated at "16 miles" (yeah, maybe on the salt flats or over water, ok, we all know about that). The are rated at 2W on the GMRS freq's and .5w on FRS. Why are the new "25 mile" units still rated at 2W? What's the difference in the two radios to justify the increased distance claims? Can't be frequency or a change to the privacy codes or they wouldn't work with older radios. Increased sensitivity/filtering? Hype? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
Dick wrote:
It's just marketing hype Steve. Next thing you know they will be 50-mile units. A 2-watt HT would be lucky to get one mile let alone 25. Even 5-watt GMRS commercial units (like I have) are only useable over a couple of miles unless you are line-of-sight. The ONLY way you are going to get reliable communications over that kind of distance is through a repeater. Dick - W6CCD Thanks Dick. I suspected it was just marketing but thought that they may have come up with some great new antennae or something in the receiver that I hadn't heard about. -- Steve |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
In article ,
Steve Calvin wrote: Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. I currently have GMRS radios that are rated at "16 miles" (yeah, maybe on the salt flats or over water, ok, we all know about that). The are rated at 2W on the GMRS freq's and .5w on FRS. Why are the new "25 mile" units still rated at 2W? The most probable reason is that this is pure marketing hyperbole. The radios aren't better... they're just being quoted using more optimistic (and typically unrealistic) test conditions, so that they sound better than the old radios, so that they'll sell better. What's the difference in the two radios to justify the increased distance claims? Can't be frequency or a change to the privacy codes or they wouldn't work with older radios. They *might* have more sensitive receivers, perhaps with a low-noise front-end preamplifier. I rather doubt it, though. Increased sensitivity/filtering? Hype? Probably hype. I've read some reports that indicate (based on buyers' experiences) that there can be some very real different in useful range between FMS/GMRS radios of different types. This might be due to actual (vs. quoted) transmitter power, or to better receiver sensitivity, or to the use of less-lossy rubber-duck antennas, or to the presence of a more effective counterpoise within the radio. I doubt, though, that all of these quality improvements, lumped together, would come anywhere near extending the range of a 2-watt handheld from 2 miles to 25 miles, under the same usage conditions. A 12:1 distance improvement would seem to require a 144:1 power or sensitivity improvement... over 20 dB. 25 miles, on 2 watts of UHF, pretty much requires that both transceivers be up on hilltops or high buildings, with a fairly clear line-of-sight between. You aren't going to get that sort of distance from ground-level to ground-level, unless you're lucky enough to catch a very fortunate reflection from something high up... the horizon will cut off line-of-sight. Similarly, you won't get that sort of range amidst city building clutter. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Dick" wrote in message ... It's just marketing hype Steve. Next thing you know they will be 50-mile units. A 2-watt HT would be lucky to get one mile let alone 25. Even 5-watt GMRS commercial units (like I have) are only useable over a couple of miles unless you are line-of-sight. The ONLY way you are going to get reliable communications over that kind of distance is through a repeater. Ah, yes, but those repeaters do miracles. I've personally hit a repeater in Camas, WA from Salem, OR (about 60 miles) with an Icom IC-2. My best haul so far into a repeater though took 30 watts, from the top of Coxcomb Hill in Astoria, OR to a repeater on Mt. Scott in Portland, around 100 miles. But that was still not as good a trick as the other. |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
Steve Calvin ) writes:
Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. GMRS, FRS, CB and whatever are not amateur radio. It amazes me that people can't grasp that, and continue to post such questions here. Doing a decent search on the newsgroups would find appropriate newsgroups. Clearly you didn't, since you found this one and not the proper ones. Doing a decent search would have found the same question asked, and answered, many times before. Chances are really good if you "chose" this newsgroup because you found discussion of GMRS in old posts here, the very posts that made you think the question was "on topic" was the same question, and if you'd just looked at the replies you would have had the answer without adding yet another off-topic question to the newsgroup. Michael VE2BVW |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Michael Black" wrote in message ... Steve Calvin ) writes: Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. GMRS, FRS, CB and whatever are not amateur radio. It amazes me that people can't grasp that, and continue to post such questions here. Doing a decent search on the newsgroups would find appropriate newsgroups. Clearly you didn't, since you found this one and not the proper ones. Doing a decent search would have found the same question asked, and answered, many times before. Chances are really good if you "chose" this newsgroup because you found discussion of GMRS in old posts here, the very posts that made you think the question was "on topic" was the same question, and if you'd just looked at the replies you would have had the answer without adding yet another off-topic question to the newsgroup. Micheal, Lighten up. They're more likely to get ACCURATE information from a ham NG than from anything devoted to those particular forms of two way radio, simply because there are many more hams that actually know the way things work and can give real life stats on what they're likely to do. |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... Micheal, Lighten up. They're more likely to get ACCURATE information from a ham NG than from anything devoted to those particular forms of two way radio, simply because there are many more hams that actually know the way things work and can give real life stats on what they're likely to do. Michael... sorry about the typo.. |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
Michael Black wrote:
Steve Calvin ) writes: Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. GMRS, FRS, CB and whatever are not amateur radio. It amazes me that people can't grasp that, and continue to post such questions here. Doing a decent search on the newsgroups would find appropriate newsgroups. Clearly you didn't, since you found this one and not the proper ones. Doing a decent search would have found the same question asked, and answered, many times before. Chances are really good if you "chose" this newsgroup because you found discussion of GMRS in old posts here, the very posts that made you think the question was "on topic" was the same question, and if you'd just looked at the replies you would have had the answer without adding yet another off-topic question to the newsgroup. Michael VE2BVW Well, EXCUSE ME Mr. High and Mighty Ham Operator.... woooooo I'm just shaking here! For your information asshole, I've been involved with computers for the last 34 years and use DOS, WindoZe, AIX, Unix, Solaris, HP, and pretty much any flavor of Linux you can think of. Searches are subjective and if you don't happen to enter the right arguments you ain't gonna get the right answer. Shoot me. I sincerely choke apologize for monopolizing your valuable time. To all of the other reasonable and helpful replies I received, I thank you all very much. Mr. Black can kiss my ass -- Steve |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
The range of these units is dependant on:
1. Altitude of the transmitting and receiving units 2. Power 3. Frequency 4. Obstructions 5. Antenna Gain 6. Receiver Sensitivity For a Handy chart to estimate range-- See URL: http://www.artscipub.com/simpleton/simp.range.html I have transmitted over a 50 Mile range with 5 Watts - but was on top of a mountain (like most repeaters) At ground level for both units with standard antennas, range is a few miles. Anything else is hype. Pretty much the distance to the horizon -- see URL: http://www.boatsafe.com/tools/horizon.htm The Shadow Lamont |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
In article , "The Shadow" wrote:
The range of these units is dependant on: 1. Altitude of the transmitting and receiving units 2. Power 3. Frequency 4. Obstructions 5. Antenna Gain 6. Receiver Sensitivity For a Handy chart to estimate range-- See URL: http://www.artscipub.com/simpleton/simp.range.html I have transmitted over a 50 Mile range with 5 Watts - but was on top of a mountain (like most repeaters) At ground level for both units with standard antennas, range is a few miles. Anything else is hype. Pretty much the distance to the horizon -- see URL: http://www.boatsafe.com/tools/horizon.htm The Shadow Lamont Power buys little extra range for unobstructed distance. Obstacles is where power is inportant. I am not sure that 2 watts is maximum. I was doing a test of a .5 watt Icom and a ~ 16 mi Midland. It seemed to me the field strength was more than double. I would think quadrupling power would double field voltage and I was getting more than double field strength. .5 watt FRS have been reports of ~100 miles between mountain tops. Nuts & Volts reported something like a 160 mi skip of some sort in their FRS articles a long time ago. Ground level on boats is normally about 3 mi., but air effects can increase that a whole bunch. I don't know what mode of transmission I used to get when i used my old 300 mw analog cell phone up around Lake Erie. I used to go through a Canadian site in London from Astabula Ohio, about 70 mi. That used to come in better than the US sites along the water at times. greg |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
In article , Steve Calvin wrote:
Michael Black wrote: Steve Calvin ) writes: Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. GMRS, FRS, CB and whatever are not amateur radio. It amazes me that people can't grasp that, and continue to post such questions here. Doing a decent search on the newsgroups would find appropriate newsgroups. Clearly you didn't, since you found this one and not the proper ones. Right now there are probably a high percentage of hams using FRS, perhaps not GMRS. There used to be a GMRS and FRS forum which is gone, but the ham groups is probably the best informed and also the boating people. Sometimes people post to a group they are familiar with, and not necessarily the best for answering the question. They may respect the answers with people they are familiar with. Perhaps they also are looking for another channel in case normal inspecting does not come up with results in a given time. As always, your going to get all kinds of answers, but on Usenet, you tend to get corrected in a short interval. Doing a decent search would have found the same question asked, and answered, many times before. Chances are really good if you "chose" this newsgroup because you found discussion of GMRS in old posts here, the very posts that made you think the question was "on topic" was the same question, and if you'd just looked at the replies you would have had the answer without adding yet another off-topic question to the newsgroup. Michael VE2BVW Well, EXCUSE ME Mr. High and Mighty Ham Operator.... woooooo I'm just shaking here! For your information asshole, I've been involved with computers for the last 34 years and use DOS, WindoZe, AIX, Unix, Solaris, HP, and pretty much any flavor of Linux you can think of. Searches are subjective and if you don't happen to enter the right arguments you ain't gonna get the right answer. Shoot me. I sincerely choke apologize for monopolizing your valuable time. To all of the other reasonable and helpful replies I received, I thank you all very much. Mr. Black can kiss my ass A person can search with any method they choose. Using search engines, especially Google, is getting more difficult do to extreme advertising. I'm not sure where computers came into the discussion, but I worked for Digital in 1969. greg N6GS |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:39:12 -0500, Steve Calvin wrote:
Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. I currently have GMRS radios that are rated at "16 miles" (yeah, maybe on the salt flats or over water, ok, we all know about that). The are rated at 2W on the GMRS freq's and .5w on FRS. Why are the new "25 mile" units still rated at 2W? What's the difference in the two radios to justify the increased distance claims? Can't be frequency or a change to the privacy codes or they wouldn't work with older radios. Increased sensitivity/filtering? Hype? With the "right" kind of propagation even .5W will do way over 100 miles but under normal circumstances count on line-of-sight but no more than 1 mile when in build-up or bushy areas. Your mileage may vary. Repeater distances are usually line of sight (a repeater at 4.000 ft has a horizon of abt 80 miles if no obstructions in between. Draw an 80 mile circle around the repeater and you'll get the area you can reach. Note: There usually are obstructions (hilly terrain) and without any special propagation signal strength at long distance will be less. Most FM type radio's do not have very sensitive receiving stages and if squelch is on sensitivity becomes even less. Solution: Use narrow band modulation such as SSB. Instead of spraeding your .5W over 15kHz put it in 3kHz. You'll be stronger on the other end - however now we're talking how it works for ham-radio: Do a lot with little power..... |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Steve Calvin" wrote in message
... Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. I currently have GMRS radios that are rated at "16 miles" (yeah, maybe on the salt flats or over water, ok, we all know about that). The are rated at 2W on the GMRS freq's and .5w on FRS. Why are the new "25 mile" units still rated at 2W? What's the difference in the two radios to justify the increased distance claims? Can't be frequency or a change to the privacy codes or they wouldn't work with older radios. Increased sensitivity/filtering? Hype? Hype and poor/deceptive advertising. Probably the advertising dept. is clueless as to actual specs. 2W on a unity gain antenna should have a maximum range of 1.4km (or 0.878 miles) given the standard receive sensitivity of 0.2u. GMRS is CB, and therefore, your better group by topic would have been "rec.rado.cb." However, I agree with other responses that you would probably get a better quality response here. |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
GregS wrote:
I'm not sure where computers came into the discussion, but I worked for Digital in 1969. greg N6GS I dunno, he just ticked me off with the "holier than thou" attitude. I was trying to convey that I'm not a computer dummy. I'm very well versed in most software. I use Micro$oft programs when necessary but try to avoil them. ;-) IBM since '74 -- Steve |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
iwouldntknow wrote:
With the "right" kind of propagation even .5W will do way over 100 miles but under normal circumstances count on line-of-sight but no more than 1 mile when in build-up or bushy areas. Your mileage may vary. Repeater distances are usually line of sight (a repeater at 4.000 ft has a horizon of abt 80 miles if no obstructions in between. Draw an 80 mile circle around the repeater and you'll get the area you can reach. Note: There usually are obstructions (hilly terrain) and without any special propagation signal strength at long distance will be less. Most FM type radio's do not have very sensitive receiving stages and if squelch is on sensitivity becomes even less. Solution: Use narrow band modulation such as SSB. Instead of spraeding your .5W over 15kHz put it in 3kHz. You'll be stronger on the other end - however now we're talking how it works for ham-radio: Do a lot with little power..... Thanks. I'm familiar with SSB, skip, etc. But I can't talk others into going that route. We use these for hunting in the northeast and I was just perplexed how with the same power and what looks like basically the same specs. then got a theoretical 8 mile gain. I say theoretical because they *may* end up working a mile in the woods but that would surprise me. -- Steve |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
D. Stussy wrote:
"Steve Calvin" wrote in message Increased sensitivity/filtering? Hype? Hype and poor/deceptive advertising. Probably the advertising dept. is clueless as to actual specs. 2W on a unity gain antenna should have a maximum range of 1.4km (or 0.878 miles) given the standard receive sensitivity of 0.2u. GMRS is CB, and therefore, your better group by topic would have been "rec.rado.cb." However, I agree with other responses that you would probably get a better quality response here. Thanks again to you all (with one notable exception ;-) ). You've confirmed what I suspected all along but didn't have/know the technical details enough to debunk the claims. -- Steve |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"D. Stussy" wrote in message ... "Steve Calvin" wrote in message ... Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. I currently have GMRS radios that are rated at "16 miles" (yeah, maybe on the salt flats or over water, ok, we all know about that). The are rated at 2W on the GMRS freq's and .5w on FRS. Why are the new "25 mile" units still rated at 2W? What's the difference in the two radios to justify the increased distance claims? Can't be frequency or a change to the privacy codes or they wouldn't work with older radios. Increased sensitivity/filtering? Hype? Hype and poor/deceptive advertising. Probably the advertising dept. is clueless as to actual specs. 2W on a unity gain antenna should have a maximum range of 1.4km (or 0.878 miles) given the standard receive sensitivity of 0.2u. GMRS is CB, and therefore, your better group by topic would have been "rec.rado.cb." However, I agree with other responses that you would probably get a better quality response here. GMRS is NOT CB. See URL: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile GMRS frequencies are UHF- FM and requires a license and a fee for application (~ $75 ?). Use is sharply defined. Repeater operation is permitted. There are severe penalties for non-licensed users. Lots of details at URL: http://www.provide.net/~prsg/wi-gmrs.htm Lamont |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
In article ,
The Shadow wrote: GMRS is NOT CB. See URL: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile GMRS frequencies are UHF- FM and requires a license and a fee for application (~ $75 ?). Use is sharply defined. Repeater operation is permitted. There are severe penalties for non-licensed users. Out of curiosity - are you aware of any actual enforcement actions in the past few years, taken against people using GMRS frequencies without a license? From what I can see, GMRS licensees are receiving next to no support from the FCC in this regard. The GMRS-only frequencies seem to be suffering from widespread interference from owners of the dual-mode (FRS/GMRS) radios, using the GMRS frequencies without bothering to (or even being aware of the legal requirement to) get a license. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
Dave Platt wrote:
snip From what I can see, GMRS licensees are receiving next to no support from the FCC in this regard. The GMRS-only frequencies seem to be suffering from widespread interference from owners of the dual-mode (FRS/GMRS) radios, using the GMRS frequencies without bothering to (or even being aware of the legal requirement to) get a license. I believe you are correct. They seem to be going the way CB licenses. They finally realized that no one was getting the license due to the inability or desire to track non-licensed users. Except in some extreme cases, where the operator had a stationary base station and was running high power. -- Steve |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
snip Out of curiosity - are you aware of any actual enforcement actions in the past few years, taken against people using GMRS frequencies without a license? snip Google shows several violations Example http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2...-238457A1.html The point is -- it is the law. If you are aware of that and ignore it - you were forwarned. The FCC has its hands full - monitoring for idiots jamming Marine and Aircraft frequencies and causing ship or air collisions. But non-licensed GMRSers do occaisionally get caught -- do you really want to be one of them??? Lamont |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"The Shadow" wrote in message ... snip Out of curiosity - are you aware of any actual enforcement actions in the past few years, taken against people using GMRS frequencies without a license? snip Google shows several violations Example http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2...-238457A1.html The point is -- it is the law. If you are aware of that and ignore it - you were forwarned. The FCC has its hands full - monitoring for idiots jamming Marine and Aircraft frequencies and causing ship or air collisions. But non-licensed GMRSers do occaisionally get caught -- do you really want to be one of them??? Lamont also see http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2...-257949A1.html |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
In article ,
"The Shadow" wrote: GMRS is NOT CB. See URL: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile GMRS frequencies are UHF- FM and requires a license and a fee for application (~ $75 ?). Use is sharply defined. Repeater operation is permitted. There are severe penalties for non-licensed users. Lots of details at URL: http://www.provide.net/~prsg/wi-gmrs.htm Lamont Actually, GMRS has it's roots in Citizens Band, as it started out life as Citizens Band Class A, when Citizens Band was Created in the 1960's. It was changed to GMRS much more recently by Commission Action. At one time ALL Citizen Band Radios were licensed, and required a License Fee be paid, and in truth, all Citizens Band Radios are still Licensed by the Commission, under a General Nationwide Blanket License created when the Commission dropped the Individual Licenses, and Fees, for those particular Radio Services. Bruce in alaska -- add path before @ |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
In article ,
"The Shadow" wrote: The FCC has its hands full - monitoring for idiots jamming Marine and Aircraft frequencies and causing ship or air collisions. Lamont Can you document a single case, where the FCC was involved in monitoring Marine, and, or, Aircraft Frequencies for Jammers, that caused a collision of a ship or aircraft? No, Really? Duh, I wonder why? Lamont, you have no clue what the FCC, does, and what it has been doing, since the ALGORE Bloodletting. Maybe you should get a "Clue" before you make any more Foolish Statements...... Bruce in alaska -- add path before @ |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , "The Shadow" wrote: GMRS is NOT CB. See URL: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile GMRS frequencies are UHF- FM and requires a license and a fee for application (~ $75 ?). Use is sharply defined. Repeater operation is permitted. There are severe penalties for non-licensed users. Lots of details at URL: http://www.provide.net/~prsg/wi-gmrs.htm Lamont Actually, GMRS has it's roots in Citizens Band, as it started out life as Citizens Band Class A, when Citizens Band was Created in the 1960's. It was changed to GMRS much more recently by Commission Action. At one time ALL Citizen Band Radios were licensed, and required a License Fee be paid, and in truth, all Citizens Band Radios are still Licensed by the Commission, under a General Nationwide Blanket License created when the Commission dropped the Individual Licenses, and Fees, for those particular Radio Services. Bruce in alaska Indeed Bruce all that is true but today CB is http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ice_home&id=cb GMRS is http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile Lot of differences, frequencies, modulation, useage, etc Lamont |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , "The Shadow" wrote: The FCC has its hands full - monitoring for idiots jamming Marine and Aircraft frequencies and causing ship or air collisions. Lamont Can you document a single case, where the FCC was involved in monitoring Marine, and, or, Aircraft Frequencies for Jammers, that caused a collision of a ship or aircraft? No, Really? Duh, I wonder why? Lamont, you have no clue what the FCC, does, and what it has been doing, since the ALGORE Bloodletting. Maybe you should get a "Clue" before you make any more Foolish Statements...... Bruce in alaska -- add path before @ We recently had a FCC spokesperson at our Ham Club and he stated the above. I stand by my statements. Jammers or any interfering frequency --- spurs, harmonics, intermod can cause communication problems. I refer you to URL: http://www2.arrl.org/news/enforcemen...2003/0614.html http://www2.arrl.org/news/enforcemen...2003/0712.html http://w6yra.bol.ucla.edu/interest.htm http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=2&gl=us http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/ Lots more if you get a clue and use Goggle Lamont |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:46:17 -0800, "The Shadow"
wrote: Actually, GMRS has it's roots in Citizens Band, as it started out life as Citizens Band Class A, when Citizens Band was Created in the 1960's. It was changed to GMRS much more recently by Commission Action. At one time ALL Citizen Band Radios were licensed, and required a License Fee be paid, and in truth, all Citizens Band Radios are still Licensed by the Commission, under a General Nationwide Blanket License created when the Commission dropped the Individual Licenses, and Fees, for those particular Radio Services. Bruce in alaska Indeed Bruce all that is true but today CB is http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ice_home&id=cb GMRS is http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile Lot of differences, frequencies, modulation, useage, etc Lamont I will have to side with Bruce on this one. The GMRS band (formerly Class A Citizen's Band) FRS and CB all fall under Part 95, Personal Radio Services. Each has its own characteristics, but they are all related to radio services for the general public as opposed to the Amateur Radio Service under Part 97. Dick - W6CCD -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Dick" wrote in message ... On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:46:17 -0800, "The Shadow" wrote: Actually, GMRS has it's roots in Citizens Band, as it started out life as Citizens Band Class A, when Citizens Band was Created in the 1960's. It was changed to GMRS much more recently by Commission Action. At one time ALL Citizen Band Radios were licensed, and required a License Fee be paid, and in truth, all Citizens Band Radios are still Licensed by the Commission, under a General Nationwide Blanket License created when the Commission dropped the Individual Licenses, and Fees, for those particular Radio Services. Bruce in alaska Indeed Bruce all that is true but today CB is http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...ice_home&id=cb GMRS is http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile Lot of differences, frequencies, modulation, useage, etc Lamont I will have to side with Bruce on this one. The GMRS band (formerly Class A Citizen's Band) FRS and CB all fall under Part 95, Personal Radio Services. Each has its own characteristics, but they are all related to radio services for the general public as opposed to the Amateur Radio Service under Part 97. Dick - W6CCD Agree but hopefully some readers are now aware of the differences between the CB and GMRS. One poster stated that GMRS is CB simply not true. Lamont |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"The Shadow" wrote in message
... "D. Stussy" wrote in message ... "Steve Calvin" wrote in message ... Sorry if this isn't the right group to ask this, if not and someone know of a more appropriate group I'd appreciate a pointer. I currently have GMRS radios that are rated at "16 miles" (yeah, maybe on the salt flats or over water, ok, we all know about that). The are rated at 2W on the GMRS freq's and .5w on FRS. Why are the new "25 mile" units still rated at 2W? What's the difference in the two radios to justify the increased distance claims? Can't be frequency or a change to the privacy codes or they wouldn't work with older radios. Increased sensitivity/filtering? Hype? Hype and poor/deceptive advertising. Probably the advertising dept. is clueless as to actual specs. 2W on a unity gain antenna should have a maximum range of 1.4km (or 0.878 miles) given the standard receive sensitivity of 0.2u. GMRS is CB, and therefore, your better group by topic would have been "rec.rado.cb." However, I agree with other responses that you would probably get a better quality response here. GMRS is NOT CB. See URL: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile WRONG! GMRS is CB. It's defined in part 95, subpart A. All of part 95 is CB. What you're thinking of is only the 27MHz allocation - part 95, subpart D. FRS and MURS are also in part 95, and if you read the FCC's page on each, the FCC indicates that each is part of CB, but neither operates on 27MHz. GMRS frequencies are UHF- FM and requires a license and a fee for application (~ $75 ?). Use is sharply defined. Repeater operation is permitted. There are severe penalties for non-licensed users. It's still CB and you know it. |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Ty" wrote in message ... Lamont, Tell us how to "Goggle" We need a clue. ROTFLMAO at the stupidity. NWOAR Tie NWOAR Just kidding Tei Try googling goggle Lamont |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
GMRS is NOT CB. See URL: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile WRONG! GMRS is CB. It's defined in part 95, subpart A. All of part 95 is CB. What you're thinking of is only the 27MHz allocation - part 95, subpart D. FRS and MURS are also in part 95, and if you read the FCC's page on each, the FCC indicates that each is part of CB, but neither operates on 27MHz. GMRS frequencies are UHF- FM and requires a license and a fee for application (~ $75 ?). Use is sharply defined. Repeater operation is permitted. There are severe penalties for non-licensed users. It's still CB and you know it. Au Contraire please read the Wikipedia description http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cb_radio Quote "Citizens' Band radio (CB) is, in most countries, a system of short-distance, simplex[1] radio communications between individuals on a selection of 40 channels within the 27 MHz (11 meter) band. The CB radio service should not be confused with FRS, GMRS, MURS, or amateur ("ham") radio. " Part 95 of the FCC Rules does not state that CB = GMRS Should I believe Wikipedia, the FCC, or you? |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:04:44 -0800, Evan Platt
wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:53:37 -0800, "The Shadow" wrote: Au Contraire please read the Wikipedia description http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cb_radio Quote "Citizens' Band radio (CB) is, in most countries, a system of short-distance, simplex[1] radio communications between individuals on a selection of 40 channels within the 27 MHz (11 meter) band. The CB radio service should not be confused with FRS, GMRS, MURS, or amateur ("ham") radio. " Part 95 of the FCC Rules does not state that CB = GMRS Should I believe Wikipedia, the FCC, or you? The problem with Wiki is anyone can modify / create it. sarcasm Give me a minute and I'll go change the Wiki to say that 490 -510 mhz is open game for anyone. /sarcasm There are several radio services covered under 47 C.F.R Part 95. The FCC describes three of them as being part of the Citizen Band Radio Services (CB, FRS and MURS.) The GMRS radio service is not described by the FCC as being part of Citizen Band Radio Services. Dick - W6CCD -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Dick" wrote in message ... On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:04:44 -0800, Evan Platt wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:53:37 -0800, "The Shadow" wrote: Au Contraire please read the Wikipedia description http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cb_radio Quote "Citizens' Band radio (CB) is, in most countries, a system of short-distance, simplex[1] radio communications between individuals on a selection of 40 channels within the 27 MHz (11 meter) band. The CB radio service should not be confused with FRS, GMRS, MURS, or amateur ("ham") radio. " Part 95 of the FCC Rules does not state that CB = GMRS Should I believe Wikipedia, the FCC, or you? The problem with Wiki is anyone can modify / create it. sarcasm Give me a minute and I'll go change the Wiki to say that 490 -510 mhz is open game for anyone. /sarcasm There are several radio services covered under 47 C.F.R Part 95. The FCC describes three of them as being part of the Citizen Band Radio Services (CB, FRS and MURS.) The GMRS radio service is not described by the FCC as being part of Citizen Band Radio Services. Dick - W6CCD Thanks Dick Lamont - another 30 year+ Extra Class Ham |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
In article ,
"The Shadow" wrote: "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , "The Shadow" wrote: The FCC has its hands full - monitoring for idiots jamming Marine and Aircraft frequencies and causing ship or air collisions. Lamont Can you document a single case, where the FCC was involved in monitoring Marine, and, or, Aircraft Frequencies for Jammers, that caused a collision of a ship or aircraft? No, Really? Duh, I wonder why? Lamont, you have no clue what the FCC, does, and what it has been doing, since the ALGORE Bloodletting. Maybe you should get a "Clue" before you make any more Foolish Statements...... Bruce in alaska -- add path before @ We recently had a FCC spokesperson at our Ham Club and he stated the above. I stand by my statements. Jammers or any interfering frequency --- spurs, harmonics, intermod can cause communication problems. I refer you to URL: http://www2.arrl.org/news/enforcemen...2003/0614.html http://www2.arrl.org/news/enforcemen...2003/0712.html http://w6yra.bol.ucla.edu/interest.htm http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache.../Orders/2001/f cc01018.doc+fcc+violation+aircraft+frequency&hl=en &ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/ Lots more if you get a clue and use Goggle Lamont Lamont, you have not shown ANY connection between your socalled FCC Monitoring of Marine and or Aviation Frequenices, and ANY collision of a Vessel or Aircraft. FYI, the FCC has very limited Fixed Monitoring Capability on VHF and UHF Marine and Aircraft Frequencies due to the LACK of Monitoring Stations. 99% of the Marine and Aviation Frequency Monitoring is done by the US Coast Guard, for Marine, and the FAA for Aviation. What little monitoring the FCC does, is done from Mobile Units, that are used for Specific Case Investigation, and is done by the local Field Office Engineers and Techs, of which there are 75% fewer of, since the ALGORE lead Bloodletting in the early 90's. The FCC just doesn't have the staff, to do what you are tallking about. They barely have enough staff, at each Field Office, to do the REQUIRED Paperwork to keep the Office OPEN. Bruce in alaska who use to be one of those FCC Field Agents...... -- add path before @ |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , "The Shadow" wrote: "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , "The Shadow" wrote: The FCC has its hands full - monitoring for idiots jamming Marine and Aircraft frequencies and causing ship or air collisions. Lamont Can you document a single case, where the FCC was involved in monitoring Marine, and, or, Aircraft Frequencies for Jammers, that caused a collision of a ship or aircraft? No, Really? Duh, I wonder why? Lamont, you have no clue what the FCC, does, and what it has been doing, since the ALGORE Bloodletting. Maybe you should get a "Clue" before you make any more Foolish Statements...... Bruce in alaska -- add path before @ We recently had a FCC spokesperson at our Ham Club and he stated the above. I stand by my statements. Jammers or any interfering frequency --- spurs, harmonics, intermod can cause communication problems. I refer you to URL: http://www2.arrl.org/news/enforcemen...2003/0614.html http://www2.arrl.org/news/enforcemen...2003/0712.html http://w6yra.bol.ucla.edu/interest.htm http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache.../Orders/2001/f cc01018.doc+fcc+violation+aircraft+frequency&hl=en &ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/ Lots more if you get a clue and use Goggle Lamont Lamont, you have not shown ANY connection between your socalled FCC Monitoring of Marine and or Aviation Frequenices, and ANY collision of a Vessel or Aircraft. FYI, the FCC has very limited Fixed Monitoring Capability on VHF and UHF Marine and Aircraft Frequencies due to the LACK of Monitoring Stations. 99% of the Marine and Aviation Frequency Monitoring is done by the US Coast Guard, for Marine, and the FAA for Aviation. What little monitoring the FCC does, is done from Mobile Units, that are used for Specific Case Investigation, and is done by the local Field Office Engineers and Techs, of which there are 75% fewer of, since the ALGORE lead Bloodletting in the early 90's. The FCC just doesn't have the staff, to do what you are tallking about. They barely have enough staff, at each Field Office, to do the REQUIRED Paperwork to keep the Office OPEN. Bruce in alaska who use to be one of those FCC Field Agents...... -- add path before @ Thanks Bruce I stand corrected. Lamont |
GMRS Watts v Distance?
"Dick" wrote in message
... On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:04:44 -0800, Evan Platt wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:53:37 -0800, "The Shadow" wrote: Au Contraire please read the Wikipedia description http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cb_radio Quote "Citizens' Band radio (CB) is, in most countries, a system of short-distance, simplex[1] radio communications between individuals on a selection of 40 channels within the 27 MHz (11 meter) band. The CB radio service should not be confused with FRS, GMRS, MURS, or amateur ("ham") radio. " Part 95 of the FCC Rules does not state that CB = GMRS Should I believe Wikipedia, the FCC, or you? The problem with Wiki is anyone can modify / create it. sarcasm Give me a minute and I'll go change the Wiki to say that 490 -510 mhz is open game for anyone. /sarcasm There are several radio services covered under 47 C.F.R Part 95. The FCC describes three of them as being part of the Citizen Band Radio Services (CB, FRS and MURS.) The GMRS radio service is not described by the FCC as being part of Citizen Band Radio Services. I shall agree - not CURRENTLY is it called a CB service. GMRS is historically "Class A CB." What is normally called "CB" today is historically "Class D CB." |
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