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Hearing Aids/ RF Emmissions
As another confirming moment in my life, next week I will be fitted
for hearing aids. I have already read articles that suggest that hearing aids and cell phones do not get along very well together. The so-called telecoil which is imbedded into the molding of the ear piece (one ear only) acts as a receptor for picking up audio from a conventional telephone...... but apparentely it can also pick up the RF from a cell phone generally resulting in a buzzing sound. The FCC has mandated that the manufacturers of cell phones must make available hearing aid compatible cell phones, but they have a couple more years to get that done. In the mean time, the apparent solution with respect to cell phones is to use a headset. So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? I suspect there are some older hams out there with hearing aids, who have the answers to these questions "right on top" Bill, W6WLB |
Bill Brannick wrote:
As another confirming moment in my life, next week I will be fitted for hearing aids. I have already read articles that suggest that hearing aids and cell phones do not get along very well together. The so-called telecoil which is imbedded into the molding of the ear piece (one ear only) acts as a receptor for picking up audio from a conventional telephone...... but apparentely it can also pick up the RF from a cell phone generally resulting in a buzzing sound. The FCC has mandated that the manufacturers of cell phones must make available hearing aid compatible cell phones, but they have a couple more years to get that done. In the mean time, the apparent solution with respect to cell phones is to use a headset. So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? I suspect there are some older hams out there with hearing aids, who have the answers to these questions "right on top" My wife is deaf in the 200-2000 Hz band in both ears -- can't hear a tornado siren, doorbell, phone ring, etc. Comes from playing viola in a symphony orchestra for 15 years, just in front of the brass. But I digress. Her cell phone, a Nokia, has a place to plug a headset -- or an inductive loop to drive the T-coil in her hearing aids. That works _Very_ _Well_ _Indeed_ for her. The loop she uses also is Nokia, though other vendors (deVilbiss, for instance) make them. Hers just goes around her neck, plugs into the phone's headset jack, and has a switch that she can press to end a conversation. Takes 3 hearing aid batteries if I remember correctly. Cost under $100. But there _is_ some possibility of RF interference. I suspect it's not much. I'm _sure_ the impedance of the T-coil in the aid is high enough that it would be hard to couple much RF into it, but I've been wrong before. Coupling audio in is a different matter, of course. -- Censorship sucks^H^H^H^H^H is for your own good. |
Bill Brannick wrote:
As another confirming moment in my life, next week I will be fitted for hearing aids. I have already read articles that suggest that hearing aids and cell phones do not get along very well together. The so-called telecoil which is imbedded into the molding of the ear piece (one ear only) acts as a receptor for picking up audio from a conventional telephone...... but apparentely it can also pick up the RF from a cell phone generally resulting in a buzzing sound. The FCC has mandated that the manufacturers of cell phones must make available hearing aid compatible cell phones, but they have a couple more years to get that done. In the mean time, the apparent solution with respect to cell phones is to use a headset. So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? I suspect there are some older hams out there with hearing aids, who have the answers to these questions "right on top" My wife is deaf in the 200-2000 Hz band in both ears -- can't hear a tornado siren, doorbell, phone ring, etc. Comes from playing viola in a symphony orchestra for 15 years, just in front of the brass. But I digress. Her cell phone, a Nokia, has a place to plug a headset -- or an inductive loop to drive the T-coil in her hearing aids. That works _Very_ _Well_ _Indeed_ for her. The loop she uses also is Nokia, though other vendors (deVilbiss, for instance) make them. Hers just goes around her neck, plugs into the phone's headset jack, and has a switch that she can press to end a conversation. Takes 3 hearing aid batteries if I remember correctly. Cost under $100. But there _is_ some possibility of RF interference. I suspect it's not much. I'm _sure_ the impedance of the T-coil in the aid is high enough that it would be hard to couple much RF into it, but I've been wrong before. Coupling audio in is a different matter, of course. -- Censorship sucks^H^H^H^H^H is for your own good. |
Bill Brannick wrote:
... So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? ... The telecoil doesn't really pick up RF from the phone. Digital phones cycle on and off in the audio range (teens of kHz) and it's the hash from the switching that the coils pick up. They're optimized for a fairly narrow freq range to match the passband of telephones. The old analog phones didn't have that problem (at least I never noticed it) on the same freqs and usually with migher power than the digital phones. I've never noticed any problems with RF in the HA's but the telecoils are sensitive to other fields, esp. from computer monitors or any other audio freq emitter (TV's, transformers, flourescent lights, some of those anti-theft thingies they have in stores that you have to walk thru, etc.).). I suppose if you worked really, really LF (20kHz) you might have some issues but even then only when the coils are switched in (they're not active all the time...you have to switch them on). Actually, the cell phone I have now (Motorola) works fine without the telecoil, it's just kinda touchy where you have it positioned...you gotta get the phone speaker lined up with the mic on the HA. Also, Moto and Nokia make loop adapters that you wear around your neck and plug into the phone and couple with the telecoil...they work pretty well and get the phone away from the HA and make it kind of hands-free (I suppose they'd work with a radio if you wired up a little adapter...hmmm.....). Be patient with your new HA's...you'll be overwhelmed with sound for a while...stuff you haven't heard for a long time. It takes a while to re- adjust. The world is a lot noisier place than you remember :-) It'll take a few visits to the audiologist to get them set up so be prepared to work with him/her. And if you're getting digitals, look into the noise reduction capabilities...it'll make the bands a little quieter... Good luck... 73... Mark AA7TA |
Bill Brannick wrote:
... So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? ... The telecoil doesn't really pick up RF from the phone. Digital phones cycle on and off in the audio range (teens of kHz) and it's the hash from the switching that the coils pick up. They're optimized for a fairly narrow freq range to match the passband of telephones. The old analog phones didn't have that problem (at least I never noticed it) on the same freqs and usually with migher power than the digital phones. I've never noticed any problems with RF in the HA's but the telecoils are sensitive to other fields, esp. from computer monitors or any other audio freq emitter (TV's, transformers, flourescent lights, some of those anti-theft thingies they have in stores that you have to walk thru, etc.).). I suppose if you worked really, really LF (20kHz) you might have some issues but even then only when the coils are switched in (they're not active all the time...you have to switch them on). Actually, the cell phone I have now (Motorola) works fine without the telecoil, it's just kinda touchy where you have it positioned...you gotta get the phone speaker lined up with the mic on the HA. Also, Moto and Nokia make loop adapters that you wear around your neck and plug into the phone and couple with the telecoil...they work pretty well and get the phone away from the HA and make it kind of hands-free (I suppose they'd work with a radio if you wired up a little adapter...hmmm.....). Be patient with your new HA's...you'll be overwhelmed with sound for a while...stuff you haven't heard for a long time. It takes a while to re- adjust. The world is a lot noisier place than you remember :-) It'll take a few visits to the audiologist to get them set up so be prepared to work with him/her. And if you're getting digitals, look into the noise reduction capabilities...it'll make the bands a little quieter... Good luck... 73... Mark AA7TA |
If you are looking to use cordless phones with inductive hearing aid pickup,
900 mhz cordless phones will work ok...the 1.2 or higher ghz will not do so well for you. I have been wearing hearing aids since I was little and the best bet for me is a cordless phone..in speakerphone mode..with the speaker built into the handset. "Bill Brannick" wrote in message ... As another confirming moment in my life, next week I will be fitted for hearing aids. I have already read articles that suggest that hearing aids and cell phones do not get along very well together. The so-called telecoil which is imbedded into the molding of the ear piece (one ear only) acts as a receptor for picking up audio from a conventional telephone...... but apparentely it can also pick up the RF from a cell phone generally resulting in a buzzing sound. The FCC has mandated that the manufacturers of cell phones must make available hearing aid compatible cell phones, but they have a couple more years to get that done. In the mean time, the apparent solution with respect to cell phones is to use a headset. So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? I suspect there are some older hams out there with hearing aids, who have the answers to these questions "right on top" Bill, W6WLB |
If you are looking to use cordless phones with inductive hearing aid pickup,
900 mhz cordless phones will work ok...the 1.2 or higher ghz will not do so well for you. I have been wearing hearing aids since I was little and the best bet for me is a cordless phone..in speakerphone mode..with the speaker built into the handset. "Bill Brannick" wrote in message ... As another confirming moment in my life, next week I will be fitted for hearing aids. I have already read articles that suggest that hearing aids and cell phones do not get along very well together. The so-called telecoil which is imbedded into the molding of the ear piece (one ear only) acts as a receptor for picking up audio from a conventional telephone...... but apparentely it can also pick up the RF from a cell phone generally resulting in a buzzing sound. The FCC has mandated that the manufacturers of cell phones must make available hearing aid compatible cell phones, but they have a couple more years to get that done. In the mean time, the apparent solution with respect to cell phones is to use a headset. So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? I suspect there are some older hams out there with hearing aids, who have the answers to these questions "right on top" Bill, W6WLB |
Have had my HA (digital) for a couple of years now and have never had a
problem with cell phones. Also no problems with computer monitors, fluorescent lights or anything else for that matter. The telecoil works great with my cell phone, Nokia. In fact the older the phone the worse the performance. Some older desk and wall phones are so bad it is better if I take the hearing aid out and while using the phone. I picked up one of the loop adapters from the audiologist and it is just about the neatest thing since sliced bread. Just plug it into the headset jack on the radio and you have the greatest set of headphones you have ever owned. You can adjust the volume on each separately and no one else can hear a thing. Also use an extension cable and can work on the computer while listening to the radio so that I don't miss anything. With the loop I do sometimes pick up stray noise, never have tried to sort out what it is. Could be lights, RF, any number of things but just not worth messing with, it is just not that bad. I can say that my HA really gave me back ham radio. Was really getting tough to make out callsigns, etc. Had to continually crank up the volume when using headsets, etc. I have so much more fun on the radio since I got them I can't imagine not having them. -- K7SAM Transmitting from Navajo, MT Center of the Known Universe |
Have had my HA (digital) for a couple of years now and have never had a
problem with cell phones. Also no problems with computer monitors, fluorescent lights or anything else for that matter. The telecoil works great with my cell phone, Nokia. In fact the older the phone the worse the performance. Some older desk and wall phones are so bad it is better if I take the hearing aid out and while using the phone. I picked up one of the loop adapters from the audiologist and it is just about the neatest thing since sliced bread. Just plug it into the headset jack on the radio and you have the greatest set of headphones you have ever owned. You can adjust the volume on each separately and no one else can hear a thing. Also use an extension cable and can work on the computer while listening to the radio so that I don't miss anything. With the loop I do sometimes pick up stray noise, never have tried to sort out what it is. Could be lights, RF, any number of things but just not worth messing with, it is just not that bad. I can say that my HA really gave me back ham radio. Was really getting tough to make out callsigns, etc. Had to continually crank up the volume when using headsets, etc. I have so much more fun on the radio since I got them I can't imagine not having them. -- K7SAM Transmitting from Navajo, MT Center of the Known Universe |
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:55:43 GMT, "Z.Z." wrote:
Bill Brannick wrote: ... So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? ... The telecoil doesn't really pick up RF from the phone. Digital phones cycle on and off in the audio range (teens of kHz) and it's the hash from the switching that the coils pick up. They're optimized for a fairly narrow freq range to match the passband of telephones. The old analog phones didn't have that problem (at least I never noticed it) on the same freqs and usually with migher power than the digital phones. I've never noticed any problems with RF in the HA's but the telecoils are sensitive to other fields, esp. from computer monitors or any other audio freq emitter (TV's, transformers, flourescent lights, some of those anti-theft thingies they have in stores that you have to walk thru, etc.).). I suppose if you worked really, really LF (20kHz) you might have some issues but even then only when the coils are switched in (they're not active all the time...you have to switch them on). Actually, the cell phone I have now (Motorola) works fine without the telecoil, it's just kinda touchy where you have it positioned...you gotta get the phone speaker lined up with the mic on the HA. Also, Moto and Nokia make loop adapters that you wear around your neck and plug into the phone and couple with the telecoil...they work pretty well and get the phone away from the HA and make it kind of hands-free (I suppose they'd work with a radio if you wired up a little adapter...hmmm.....). Be patient with your new HA's...you'll be overwhelmed with sound for a while...stuff you haven't heard for a long time. It takes a while to re- adjust. The world is a lot noisier place than you remember :-) It'll take a few visits to the audiologist to get them set up so be prepared to work with him/her. And if you're getting digitals, look into the noise reduction capabilities...it'll make the bands a little quieter... Good luck... 73... Mark AA7TA The noise generation from the power supply is more of an issue with GSM and TDMA technologies. The GSM/TDMA handset transmits 217 bursts of data per second, so the switching power supply has to ramp up for the transmitter 217 times a second. The 217 Hz noise is more noticeable when the handset is located far from the cell tower and the transmitter is pumping out maximum power. CDMA does not pulse the transmitter and, therefore, should not have the buzzing problem. Regards, Ed Bailen - N5KZW |
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:55:43 GMT, "Z.Z." wrote:
Bill Brannick wrote: ... So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? ... The telecoil doesn't really pick up RF from the phone. Digital phones cycle on and off in the audio range (teens of kHz) and it's the hash from the switching that the coils pick up. They're optimized for a fairly narrow freq range to match the passband of telephones. The old analog phones didn't have that problem (at least I never noticed it) on the same freqs and usually with migher power than the digital phones. I've never noticed any problems with RF in the HA's but the telecoils are sensitive to other fields, esp. from computer monitors or any other audio freq emitter (TV's, transformers, flourescent lights, some of those anti-theft thingies they have in stores that you have to walk thru, etc.).). I suppose if you worked really, really LF (20kHz) you might have some issues but even then only when the coils are switched in (they're not active all the time...you have to switch them on). Actually, the cell phone I have now (Motorola) works fine without the telecoil, it's just kinda touchy where you have it positioned...you gotta get the phone speaker lined up with the mic on the HA. Also, Moto and Nokia make loop adapters that you wear around your neck and plug into the phone and couple with the telecoil...they work pretty well and get the phone away from the HA and make it kind of hands-free (I suppose they'd work with a radio if you wired up a little adapter...hmmm.....). Be patient with your new HA's...you'll be overwhelmed with sound for a while...stuff you haven't heard for a long time. It takes a while to re- adjust. The world is a lot noisier place than you remember :-) It'll take a few visits to the audiologist to get them set up so be prepared to work with him/her. And if you're getting digitals, look into the noise reduction capabilities...it'll make the bands a little quieter... Good luck... 73... Mark AA7TA The noise generation from the power supply is more of an issue with GSM and TDMA technologies. The GSM/TDMA handset transmits 217 bursts of data per second, so the switching power supply has to ramp up for the transmitter 217 times a second. The 217 Hz noise is more noticeable when the handset is located far from the cell tower and the transmitter is pumping out maximum power. CDMA does not pulse the transmitter and, therefore, should not have the buzzing problem. Regards, Ed Bailen - N5KZW |
"Ed Bailen" wrote in message
... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:55:43 GMT, "Z.Z." wrote: Bill Brannick wrote: ..... So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? ... The telecoil doesn't really pick up RF from the phone. The internal circuitry can pick up the RF as well and digital phones *can* have a significant AM component. The coil wires can be simply like a single wire picking up RF and feeding it inside the HA. When the TX is on, RF is picked up and bias changes occur in some part of the circuit. When the TX goes on-off, you have essentially square waves fed to the circuitry at the pulse repitition frequency. Very small amounts of RF can be noticed this way. The Nextel phone is the most noted since it has a distinctive putt-putt (actually something like 10-20 HZ) which easily gets into computer speaker amps. Digital phones cycle on and off As I said... ... The old analog phones didn't have that problem ... This is because in "analog cellular" the transmitter was FM and on continuously. It had no AM cmponent. If RF was getting into some device you would not notice it until it got strong enough and changed the bias on something to cause distortion or bias some circuit out of operating range. Small amounts of constant RF wouldn't effect things enough to notice. -- Steve N, K,9;d, c. i My email has no u's. |
"Ed Bailen" wrote in message
... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:55:43 GMT, "Z.Z." wrote: Bill Brannick wrote: ..... So.. if that telecoil can pick up RF from a cell phone, what is the potential for it picking up RF from my own HF transmissions here...(probably not all bands, but... )???? ... The telecoil doesn't really pick up RF from the phone. The internal circuitry can pick up the RF as well and digital phones *can* have a significant AM component. The coil wires can be simply like a single wire picking up RF and feeding it inside the HA. When the TX is on, RF is picked up and bias changes occur in some part of the circuit. When the TX goes on-off, you have essentially square waves fed to the circuitry at the pulse repitition frequency. Very small amounts of RF can be noticed this way. The Nextel phone is the most noted since it has a distinctive putt-putt (actually something like 10-20 HZ) which easily gets into computer speaker amps. Digital phones cycle on and off As I said... ... The old analog phones didn't have that problem ... This is because in "analog cellular" the transmitter was FM and on continuously. It had no AM cmponent. If RF was getting into some device you would not notice it until it got strong enough and changed the bias on something to cause distortion or bias some circuit out of operating range. Small amounts of constant RF wouldn't effect things enough to notice. -- Steve N, K,9;d, c. i My email has no u's. |
"Bill Brannick" wrote in message ... As another confirming moment in my life, next week I will be fitted for hearing aids. My wife wears a HA and had no trouble using her older Cellphone, even the new one worked FB until the local systems switched to Digital Service. If she uses it in the country-side where it is still Analog Service there is no problem ! The problem is- in the city, all new Cellphones automatically default to the Digital Mode ! The only answer available is to revert to using an analog service only Cellphone! Thank God for EBay I think the only real solution is somewhat similar to TTY for the deaf .. Legislation ,mandating the availability of an ANALOG service channel on all Cell-nets as a Legacy Mode for the Hard of hearing . Apparently there is no simple solution to the Envelope Modulation interference caused to Hearing-Aids by the Digital Mode of Operation. It would be relatively simple to require the owner of the Analog-Mode Cell-phone to show a hearing aid at the time the phone is activated, a procedure that requires the presensce of the obsolete analog Cell-phone and presumed operator to interact with a representative of the Cellphone Network. The operators of the Cellphone Networks would love to eliminate the bandwidth hogging Analog Channels, but there seems no simple solution . Inductive Neckloops seem a sloppy solution to a technicalogic problem.. Digital Cellphones and Digital service are NOT compatable with Hearing Aids! Yukio YANO VE5YS |
"Bill Brannick" wrote in message ... As another confirming moment in my life, next week I will be fitted for hearing aids. My wife wears a HA and had no trouble using her older Cellphone, even the new one worked FB until the local systems switched to Digital Service. If she uses it in the country-side where it is still Analog Service there is no problem ! The problem is- in the city, all new Cellphones automatically default to the Digital Mode ! The only answer available is to revert to using an analog service only Cellphone! Thank God for EBay I think the only real solution is somewhat similar to TTY for the deaf .. Legislation ,mandating the availability of an ANALOG service channel on all Cell-nets as a Legacy Mode for the Hard of hearing . Apparently there is no simple solution to the Envelope Modulation interference caused to Hearing-Aids by the Digital Mode of Operation. It would be relatively simple to require the owner of the Analog-Mode Cell-phone to show a hearing aid at the time the phone is activated, a procedure that requires the presensce of the obsolete analog Cell-phone and presumed operator to interact with a representative of the Cellphone Network. The operators of the Cellphone Networks would love to eliminate the bandwidth hogging Analog Channels, but there seems no simple solution . Inductive Neckloops seem a sloppy solution to a technicalogic problem.. Digital Cellphones and Digital service are NOT compatable with Hearing Aids! Yukio YANO VE5YS |
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