Spectrum Analyzer or Oscilloscope?
 

Which of these would be the most useful to the Radio Amateur? Also when
deciding upon one or the other, what specs should one look for in
purchasing one for Ham radio applications, given basic needs for now
but with enough capabilities to handle more advanced Ham radio needs in
the future? Thank you for any help. B. Taylor

wrote in message
oups.com...
Which of these would be the most useful to the Radio Amateur? Also when
deciding upon one or the other, what specs should one look for in
purchasing one for Ham radio applications, given basic needs for now
but with enough capabilities to handle more advanced Ham radio needs in
the future? Thank you for any help. B. Taylor

If you have to ask then you don't need either one.

It depends on what you want to do. I have several scops around the house
and don't use either of them very much. I have had access to a SA and have
used it very little.

Scopes are most useful at audio frequencies and the SA is good for RF
applications.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Which of these would be the most useful to the Radio Amateur? Also
when
deciding upon one or the other, what specs should one look for in
purchasing one for Ham radio applications, given basic needs for
now
but with enough capabilities to handle more advanced Ham radio
needs in
the future? Thank you for any help. B. Taylor

If you have to ask then you don't need either one.

It's not a matter of need. I don't actually "need" to be involved
with Amateur Radio period. It's something I "choose" to be involved
with. I asked the question strictly on the basis of if I were to
purchase either one of these pieces of test equipment for typical
Amateur radio uses, which one would be more useful to me in general
terms as a typical ham that likes to tinker and experiment. Thank you,
B. Taylor

Hi B. Taylor,
You really are asking the proverbial "how long is a piece of string"
question.
Might I suggest you spend some time and money on a
good electronics course.
If courses are not offered in you area try your local library,
Is their someone who can mentor you?


wrote in message
oups.com...

Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Which of these would be the most useful to the Radio Amateur? Also
when
deciding upon one or the other, what specs should one look for in
purchasing one for Ham radio applications, given basic needs for
now
but with enough capabilities to handle more advanced Ham radio
needs in
the future? Thank you for any help. B. Taylor

If you have to ask then you don't need either one.

It's not a matter of need. I don't actually "need" to be involved
with Amateur Radio period. It's something I "choose" to be involved
with. I asked the question strictly on the basis of if I were to
purchase either one of these pieces of test equipment for typical
Amateur radio uses, which one would be more useful to me in general
terms as a typical ham that likes to tinker and experiment. Thank you,
B. Taylor

I would buy both of them. An oscilloscope is something you really need for
doing signal tracing, etc. while a spectrum analyzer is a must if you are
doing synthesizer/oscillator/transmitter design. I have both of them and use
them all of the time. Other good things to have are an RF power meter,
modulation meter, frequency counter, broadband noise source, RF generator,
DVM, VOM, and a good variable power supply. This just scratches the surface,
depending on your needs.

Pete

"John Doe" wrote in message
u...
Hi B. Taylor,
You really are asking the proverbial "how long is a piece of string"
question.
Might I suggest you spend some time and money on a
good electronics course.
If courses are not offered in you area try your local library,
Is their someone who can mentor you?


wrote in message
oups.com...

Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Which of these would be the most useful to the Radio Amateur? Also
when
deciding upon one or the other, what specs should one look for in
purchasing one for Ham radio applications, given basic needs for
now
but with enough capabilities to handle more advanced Ham radio
needs in
the future? Thank you for any help. B. Taylor

If you have to ask then you don't need either one.

It's not a matter of need. I don't actually "need" to be involved
with Amateur Radio period. It's something I "choose" to be involved
with. I asked the question strictly on the basis of if I were to
purchase either one of these pieces of test equipment for typical
Amateur radio uses, which one would be more useful to me in general
terms as a typical ham that likes to tinker and experiment. Thank you,
B. Taylor

wrote:
Which of these would be the most useful to the Radio Amateur? Also when
deciding upon one or the other, what specs should one look for in
purchasing one for Ham radio applications, given basic needs for now
but with enough capabilities to handle more advanced Ham radio needs in
the future? Thank you for any help. B. Taylor


If you just want a cool toy, get a scope with a FFT function.
You'll be the envy of all your ham buddies.
Got a nice one for sale he
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/sale.html
Priced at 25% of what you'd pay at a dealer.
mike


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"Pete KE9OA" wrote in
:

I would buy both of them. An oscilloscope is something you really need
for doing signal tracing, etc. while a spectrum analyzer is a must if
you are doing synthesizer/oscillator/transmitter design. I have both of
them and use them all of the time. Other good things to have are an RF
power meter, modulation meter, frequency counter, broadband noise
source, RF generator, DVM, VOM, and a good variable power supply. This
just scratches the surface, depending on your needs.

Pete



The choice between the two depends on what you are most interested in
doing. Since both these instruments are designed for different tasks.
However if you are looking for a good all purpose Swiss Army knife sort of
tool for general ham useage, I would look at a gadget called a service
monitor. Depending on make and model, you can find one that combines the
features of most of the instruments on Pete's list :) They usually have a
scope that will do af and also act as a spectrum analyzer along with power
meters,signal generator,frequency/modulation meter perhaps a DVM etc. All
in one handy dandy portable package.

Here is an example of one of the many on Ebay at present.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...84288 71&rd=1

As a general purpose test and troubleshooting tool I find these hard to beat!!

--
Panzer

They are both useful. You don't even want to know about all the bells
and whistles you can get, let alone trying to figure out how many of
those whistles you can use, not to mention the bells. And the digital
models are like a high end ham rig. You are going to be navigating
tonnes of menus.

I'd go for an analog crt based scope, 20mhz, 50mhz or 100mhz bandwidth.
With a 50volt to 50millivolt input range. Make sure it comes with a
probe with 10:1 input switch. Scopes typically have a 1meg ohm input
impedance so the 10:1 would get you 11 meg input plus the probe offers
frequency compensation.

dbu wrote in
:



I already have a scope which I use on my work bench, but it sits a lot
not being used, so it would be kind of handy to plug in a device which
would enable it to be used as a SA or panadapter type scope for the
shack. This would make my scope much more useful. Anything like that
around?


Alas I am not aware of such an item. But there maybe someone else who
does. :) Heathkit made anumber of these in kit form for thier Amateur
Radio kit and you do see them on Ebay and other places. Designed for use
with the SB-XXX series mostly they do have specific needs as to IF
frequency etc. Thta info is easly available and using it, I'm sure they
could be adapted quite easily to othere readios that have similar IF's.

Scopes are very versatile instruments, and can be used for a number of
purposes right out of the box. The accuracy of results depends on the
"quality" of the instrument. Suitable setup and interpretation of results
will allow you to make Voltage (p-to-p and RMS) frequency, phase
measurements. Newer instruments have these built in and display them on
screen without the need to eyeball the waveform and do mental arithmetic.
Back in the day... the reason an electronics nerd kit included a small
pocket slide rule was to do quick calculations based on the observed
waveform and control setting :) While it was fun, I much prefer the newer
gear, with its on screen of voltage, frequency etc along with the
waveform. :)

For me at least the most useful peice of test gear is the service monitor.
Even if you are using it as test gear it can be used as receiver to tune
in local broadcast stations and send them annoying critiques of their
signal deficencies ;)





--
Panzer

Panzer240 wrote:
dbu wrote in
:



I already have a scope which I use on my work bench, but it sits a
lot
not being used, so it would be kind of handy to plug in a device
which
would enable it to be used as a SA or panadapter type scope for the

shack. This would make my scope much more useful. Anything like
that
around?


Alas I am not aware of such an item. But there maybe someone else who

does. :) Heathkit made anumber of these in kit form for thier Amateur

Radio kit and you do see them on Ebay and other places. Designed for
use
with the SB-XXX series mostly they do have specific needs as to IF
frequency etc. Thta info is easly available and using it, I'm sure
they
could be adapted quite easily to othere readios that have similar
IF's.

Scopes are very versatile instruments, and can be used for a number
of
purposes right out of the box. The accuracy of results depends on the

"quality" of the instrument. Suitable setup and interpretation of
results
will allow you to make Voltage (p-to-p and RMS) frequency, phase
measurements. Newer instruments have these built in and display them
on
screen without the need to eyeball the waveform and do mental
arithmetic.
Back in the day... the reason an electronics nerd kit included a
small
pocket slide rule was to do quick calculations based on the observed
waveform and control setting :) While it was fun, I much prefer the
newer
gear, with its on screen of voltage, frequency etc along with the
waveform. :)

For me at least the most useful peice of test gear is the service
monitor.
Even if you are using it as test gear it can be used as receiver to
tune
in local broadcast stations and send them annoying critiques of their

signal deficencies ;)

Thanks to all for the input, I really appreciate the help. The
Service Monitor idea sounds absolutely perfect! But I was wondering,
because it encompasses so many different instruments into one unit,
does the accuracy or capabilities of each unit suffer a bit, or is it
priced like that of a second home? Who makes a decent Service Monitor
between $3000 to $5000? I tried to follow one response to a link on
Ebay but the item had already expired. Thanks again to everyone.
B. Taylor

It's not a matter of need. I don't actually "need" to be involved
with Amateur Radio period. It's something I "choose" to be involved
with. I asked the question strictly on the basis of if I were to
purchase either one of these pieces of test equipment for typical
Amateur radio uses, which one would be more useful to me in general
terms as a typical ham that likes to tinker and experiment.

Really depends on the depth and nature of your tinkering. Are you
talking component level equipment building/modifying? A scope would be
more useful than an SA. If you are talking about VHF/UHF system
building/tuning or RFI investigations, etc, then perhaps a Spectrum
Analyzer would be more useful.

However, I'd like to point out that you can get a good scope for less
than 1/10th the cost of a reasonable Spectrum Analyzer, so if your budget
allows for a Spectrum Analyzer, then you can probably afford a used but
good scope, too.


Ed K7AAT

dbu wrote:

I already have a scope which I use on my work bench, but it sits a lot
not being used, so it would be kind of handy to plug in a device which
would enable it to be used as a SA or panadapter type scope for the
shack. This would make my scope much more useful. Anything like that
around?

Sony/Tektronix made a spectrum analyzer that was used with the
Sony/Tektronix 324 portable scope. I have the 324 portable scope, but I
don't have the analyzer. You can build a so called spectrum analyzer
from a kit that uses a scope for a display Science workshop sells one,
and Hans Summers built one using a small TV crt for a display but you
could use a scope as a display instead.


--
Cyber stalking is a crime!

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Ralph Mowery wrote:

If you have to ask then you don't need either one.

It depends on what you want to do. I have several scops around the house
and don't use either of them very much. I have had access to a SA and have
used it very little.

Scopes are most useful at audio frequencies and the SA is good for RF
applications.


A 350 MHz four channel scope is made for RF work and is a valuable
piece of equipment if you fully understand how to use it. Some spectrum
analyzers are made for audio frequencies. You need to understand the
capabilities of the equipment you are considering, and what your
application is. I used a Tek 2465 scope to test and align video boards
for telemetry equipment with bandwidths up to 40 Mhz. Another useful
instrument is a good quality true RMS voltmeter that reads to .01 dB to
calibrate and balance detector/demodulators. I was offered a network
analyzer for my bench but passed it to another tech. I preferred the
harder jobs that didn't need it, and really didn't have room on either
bench, or the three equipment carts for another large piece of
equipment.

Your choice of test equipment depends on your skills and the design
level of what passes your bench. I worked on telemetry used for
tracking satellites, and the shuttle program. It was cutting edge and
all built to order. If you are building a one of a kind wideband Ku
band receiver for the space station you need the best equipment you can
find. On the other hand if you just breadboard simple circuits you need
less sophisticated equipment.
--
Cyber stalking is a crime!

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

A very handy tool............I picked up a CT Systems 3000B at Radio Expo
last year for only 200 dollars. I don't understand why it didn't sell. I
found it at the end of the first day of the hamfest.

Pete

"Panzer240" wrote in message
...
"Pete KE9OA" wrote in
:

I would buy both of them. An oscilloscope is something you really need
for doing signal tracing, etc. while a spectrum analyzer is a must if
you are doing synthesizer/oscillator/transmitter design. I have both of
them and use them all of the time. Other good things to have are an RF
power meter, modulation meter, frequency counter, broadband noise
source, RF generator, DVM, VOM, and a good variable power supply. This
just scratches the surface, depending on your needs.

Pete



The choice between the two depends on what you are most interested in
doing. Since both these instruments are designed for different tasks.
However if you are looking for a good all purpose Swiss Army knife sort of
tool for general ham useage, I would look at a gadget called a service
monitor. Depending on make and model, you can find one that combines the
features of most of the instruments on Pete's list :) They usually have a
scope that will do af and also act as a spectrum analyzer along with power
meters,signal generator,frequency/modulation meter perhaps a DVM etc. All
in one handy dandy portable package.

Here is an example of one of the many on Ebay at present.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...84288 71&rd=1

As a general purpose test and troubleshooting tool I find these hard to
beat!!

--
Panzer

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
dbu wrote:

I already have a scope which I use on my work bench, but it sits a lot
not being used, so it would be kind of handy to plug in a device which
would enable it to be used as a SA or panadapter type scope for the
shack. This would make my scope much more useful. Anything like that
around?


Sony/Tektronix made a spectrum analyzer that was used with the
Sony/Tektronix 324 portable scope. I have the 324 portable scope, but I
don't have the analyzer. You can build a so called spectrum analyzer
from a kit that uses a scope for a display Science workshop sells one,
and Hans Summers built one using a small TV crt for a display but you
could use a scope as a display instead.


Additionally,, Tektronix made a seires of SA plugins for the 76xx series
scopes..
The 7L5 was the low frequency (audio) one and the 7L12 was the Mhz range..
Maybe they made them for other series scopes...

regards,

nikos

I would buy the highest freq. scope that you can find and afford if you
are only allowed one of the two. A company called Texscan made a line
of inexpensive Spectrum Analyzers for the cable TV industry that are
showing up now on the used market and on eBay. For most Ham work they
work great. The company that bought Texscan is called Trilithic and
manuals can be gotten from them I have been told.

Ron WA0KDS





wrote:
Which of these would be the most useful to the Radio Amateur? Also when
deciding upon one or the other, what specs should one look for in
purchasing one for Ham radio applications, given basic needs for now
but with enough capabilities to handle more advanced Ham radio needs in
the future? Thank you for any help. B. Taylor

On 6 Mar 2005 09:30:54 -0800, "ray13" wrote:

They are both useful. You don't even want to know about all the bells
and whistles you can get, let alone trying to figure out how many of
those whistles you can use, not to mention the bells. And the digital
models are like a high end ham rig. You are going to be navigating
tonnes of menus.

I'd go for an analog crt based scope, 20mhz, 50mhz or 100mhz bandwidth.
With a 50volt to 50millivolt input range. Make sure it comes with a
probe with 10:1 input switch. Scopes typically have a 1meg ohm input
impedance so the 10:1 would get you 11 meg input plus the probe offers
frequency compensation.

This is the best advice out of the whole bunch!

If you are just starting out with this kind of test equipment then a
moderately priced analogue scope will serve quite well. It will also
be under $200.00 or so. If you find you need more later on you can get
something better. But that scope will probably do all you want it to.

You will probably get more use out of a scope than anything else. If
you do any building of any logic or timing circuits, measuring ripple
on a power supply or looking for signal paths of DC or audio, a scope
is what you need. A spectrum analyzer will not do the things a scope
will do.

A general coverage receiver will serve as a "poor mans spectrum
analyzer". Most ham transceivers have general coverage on them and you
can do a lot of things with the receiver that you can do with an
expensive spectrum analyzer. Read frequency, measure levels,
distinguish between different level signals (level of a harmonic
compared to fundamental) etc. A spectrum analyzer is just an
automatically tuned receiver with a display. The transceiver can also
be used as a signal generator.

When you learn how to do those type of things with a receiver then a
spectrum analyzer is much easier to use and understand.

Add the spectrum analyzer later. There are all different types and
priced analyzers with many different features that you may or may not
want. There are also some real dogs out there that you probably don't
want.
Then the problem comes when buying of determining if it is really
working as it should. It takes some experience with that kind of
equipment to recognize if it is working properly. Repairs can be quite
expensive on a spectrum analyzer.

I would also avoid a service monitor as a first piece of test
equipment.
As someone else said "they are a poor scope, a poor spectrum
analyzer". They are a handy item for some types of things if you can
get one that works properly. Like a spectrum analyzer they can be very
expensive to repair. You really need to know what you are buying when
you buy one.

73
Gary K4FMX

In message , Panzer240
writes
Alas I am not aware of such an item. But there maybe someone else who
does. :)


I think this would be what you are thinking of????

Http://www.tti-test.com/products-tti...rec-tsa-2p.pdf

http://www.tti-test.com/products-tti...ec-tsa1000.htm




--
Bill

if you goto http://labvolt.com/product.asp?id=163&Line_Id=64 they do have a
device there to convert an ordinary scope into a somewhat crude spectrum
analyser ( i believe it maxes out around 127Mhz), but im not sure if they
sell that device seperatly, and the whole Fm/Am training suite which the
link goes to is around $250,000 CDN.


"dbu" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Panzer240 wrote:

"Pete KE9OA" wrote in
:

I would buy both of them. An oscilloscope is something you really need
for doing signal tracing, etc. while a spectrum analyzer is a must if
you are doing synthesizer/oscillator/transmitter design. I have both
of
them and use them all of the time. Other good things to have are an RF
power meter, modulation meter, frequency counter, broadband noise
source, RF generator, DVM, VOM, and a good variable power supply. This
just scratches the surface, depending on your needs.

Pete



The choice between the two depends on what you are most interested in
doing. Since both these instruments are designed for different tasks.
However if you are looking for a good all purpose Swiss Army knife sort
of
tool for general ham useage, I would look at a gadget called a service
monitor. Depending on make and model, you can find one that combines the
features of most of the instruments on Pete's list :) They usually have
a
scope that will do af and also act as a spectrum analyzer along with
power
meters,signal generator,frequency/modulation meter perhaps a DVM etc.
All
in one handy dandy portable package.

Here is an example of one of the many on Ebay at present.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...8784288 71&rd
=1

As a general purpose test and troubleshooting tool I find these hard to
beat!!

I already have a scope which I use on my work bench, but it sits a lot
not being used, so it would be kind of handy to plug in a device which
would enable it to be used as a SA or panadapter type scope for the
shack. This would make my scope much more useful. Anything like that
around?
--

Zombie wrote:
if you goto http://labvolt.com/product.asp?id=163&Line_Id=64 they do have a
device there to convert an ordinary scope into a somewhat crude spectrum
analyser ( i believe it maxes out around 127Mhz), but im not sure if they
sell that device seperatly, and the whole Fm/Am training suite which the
link goes to is around $250,000 CDN.


"dbu" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Panzer240 wrote:


"Pete KE9OA" wrote in
:


I would buy both of them. An oscilloscope is something you really need
for doing signal tracing, etc. while a spectrum analyzer is a must if
you are doing synthesizer/oscillator/transmitter design. I have both

of

them and use them all of the time. Other good things to have are an RF
power meter, modulation meter, frequency counter, broadband noise
source, RF generator, DVM, VOM, and a good variable power supply. This
just scratches the surface, depending on your needs.

Pete



The choice between the two depends on what you are most interested in
doing. Since both these instruments are designed for different tasks.
However if you are looking for a good all purpose Swiss Army knife sort

of

tool for general ham useage, I would look at a gadget called a service
monitor. Depending on make and model, you can find one that combines the
features of most of the instruments on Pete's list :) They usually have

a

scope that will do af and also act as a spectrum analyzer along with

power

meters,signal generator,frequency/modulation meter perhaps a DVM etc.

All

in one handy dandy portable package.

Here is an example of one of the many on Ebay at present.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...8784288 71&rd

=1

As a general purpose test and troubleshooting tool I find these hard to
beat!!

I already have a scope which I use on my work bench, but it sits a lot
not being used, so it would be kind of handy to plug in a device which
would enable it to be used as a SA or panadapter type scope for the
shack. This would make my scope much more useful. Anything like that
around?

Spend some time to think VERY carefully about your requirements.
I have a DSO with an FFT display. I find it interesting on occasion.
But if you need a spectrum analyzer, you need a spectrum analyzer.

The key parameters are resolution bandwidth and dynamic range.
In most cases requring a SA, a toy isn't nearly good enough in those
areas. You can't look at a signal when the thing is overloaded or if
there's another signal too close. Toy spectrum analyzers have very WIDE
bandwidths. If they don't, they're not toys and not cheap either.
A SA with a tracking generator is very useful if you need to design
filters or align repeater cavities.

Remember that the dynamic range of a scope is very low. It's not
shielded. When you try to hook an external box to it, all sorts of
stuff finds its way into the scope. And the scope radiates the signals
you stuff into it. Not good if you're trying to measure something 100dB
down.

Service monitors CAN have very good spectrum analyzers, but the ones you
can afford probably don't and have all the bad characteristics of a toy
spectrum analyzer.

I have a TEK 492 with tracking generator. I use it rarely, but when I
need it, I'm glad its there.

It's all in your requirements...no free lunch here.
mike


--
Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
with links. Delete this sig when replying.
..
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
Wanted 12" LCD for Compaq Armada 7770MT.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK
htremovethistp://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/