Ari- The power of a locomotive can be converted but, there are
certain problems, like going downhill, not only are brakes applied
to the cars, but the diesels go into "Dynamic Breaking", a complicated
way to say "Let the driver wheels run the motor (as a generator), and
them dump their output to banks of RESISTORS!! Provides great breaking,
but lousey voltage regulation! The radios on these units are powered
by (as stated,) 72 Volts, tho the radios also work on 12 volts (which
was the standard in Cabooses). The main point tho, remains that there
are considerable electronics (the new G.E. A.C.engines , from what
I have been told, are computer operated)! and that anything that
interfers with other items causes considerable greif to the operation
of a railroad- even turning a relay upside down can cause a derailment!



They are STILL looking for such a foolproof device!


What's the issue, this appears not to be a huge deal?


Well, Ari-- the big deal is (Primarily in mountainous country- even
a grade of .5 degree, is considered quite steep). Now, suppose a
Maintainence of Way employees (push car, Motor Car, Hi-Railer (a
pickup equipped for rail travel) accidentally get loose- these can
be doing considerable speed- several MILES later-- worse, these
dont trip the signals, and further, the work crews have the track
from the dispatcher, so these can sneak up on workers with fatal
consequences. A similar thing happened on the old Siskiyou line,
when the powers that be were testing one of the old style of
remote controlled helpers-, going down-hill, on 5 Mile /Hour track
they called the remote to go to dynamic brakeing- but it went to
8-throttle instead (full throttle)! When they got it to control,
that train was doing 20 MPH! Had a bunch of scared people on it!
as you can see, it is not for the faint of heart! I sure wouldn't have
wanted to be anywhere near that track-- would you ??
I know it looks simple, and most times it is, but it doesn't take
much for things to get out of control! Have fun -- Jim

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:31:17 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote:

Ari- The power of a locomotive can be converted but, there are
certain problems, like going downhill, not only are brakes applied
to the cars, but the diesels go into "Dynamic Breaking", a complicated
way to say "Let the driver wheels run the motor (as a generator), and
them dump their output to banks of RESISTORS!! Provides great breaking,
but lousey voltage regulation! The radios on these units are powered
by (as stated,) 72 Volts, tho the radios also work on 12 volts (which
was the standard in Cabooses). The main point tho, remains that there
are considerable electronics (the new G.E. A.C.engines , from what
I have been told, are computer operated)!

Just saw one, yep, looks exactly that way.

and that anything that
interfers with other items causes considerable greif to the operation
of a railroad- even turning a relay upside down can cause a derailment!

Ah, I see what you mean, thanks again for the heads up. Are you then
suggesting that we create our own, clean power removed from the loco elec
grid?
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:31:17 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote:

They are STILL looking for such a foolproof device for run away train notification!

What's the issue, this appears not to be a huge deal?

Well, Ari-- the big deal is (Primarily in mountainous country- even
a grade of .5 degree, is considered quite steep). Now, suppose a
Maintainence of Way employees (push car, Motor Car, Hi-Railer (a
pickup equipped for rail travel) accidentally get loose- these can
be doing considerable speed- several MILES later-- worse, these
dont trip the signals, and further, the work crews have the track
from the dispatcher, so these can sneak up on workers with fatal
consequences. A similar thing happened on the old Siskiyou line,
when the powers that be were testing one of the old style of
remote controlled helpers-, going down-hill, on 5 Mile /Hour track
they called the remote to go to dynamic brakeing- but it went to
8-throttle instead (full throttle)! When they got it to control,
that train was doing 20 MPH! Had a bunch of scared people on it!
as you can see, it is not for the faint of heart! I sure wouldn't have
wanted to be anywhere near that track-- would you ??

Not a chance.

I know it looks simple, and most times it is, but it doesn't take
much for things to get out of control! Have fun -- Jim

I meant it seemed not to be, on first look, a difficult technology to
implement. For example, why not a sped sensitive device that set off an
alarm (vocal, radio, other) that could be preset "on" in situations where
these runaways are not manned?

I don't mean to downplay the potential complications but, technically,
getting an appropriate alarm system on a runaway doesn't sound like high
end technology.
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:51:49 GMT, Jim - NN7K
wrote:



wrote:

In sum total, then, this isn't a job for sidewalk superintendents!
ONE item the railroads is STILL looking for is a concensus, for
a Run-Away vehicle (by their work crews), that would alert a track
gang of that runaway comming at them, causing considerable injury!
They are STILL looking for such a foolproof device! Translation:
DON'T hold your breath, or you will get awful blue!! Jim NN7K
Retired Communication Tech, Southern Pacific, and Union Pacific
for over 30 years!!


Jim,

I don't recognize the name, but did you ever work out of the
SF GOB? I spent 30 years there myself.

FWIW, I also hear from Brijet occasionally. You probably know
her (wherever you worked) as she was in charge of CDC for some years.
I spent a decent amount of time down there troubleshooting problems on
the remote lines to the zone offices.

Never down in Oakland/the CITY, worked in K.Falls for years,
started in Eugene, in '68. Finally moved here to Sparks, about
12 years ago. Yeh, remember Brigit- bet she doing better than
most - had Dave Stubbles in Roseville, until they laid him off
about 7 years ago then he went to makeing big $$$!!-- and the
two Mikes-- Rosemond - he back in Eugene, and Barnecascle- he
in Elko, NV- got a year until retirement! Guess Bob Hall
still retired in K.Falls, and Jim Haas also there (he took my
job when came to Sparks). All retired (except for the two mikes).
Think you Kaiser D ?? have fun-- Jim (A.J. Foster) NN7K

Oops, sorry, I meant to take this personal stuff offline.

"Ari Silversteinn" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:59:01 +1300, Ken Taylor wrote:

Thanks Jim, but I wouldn't bet on the facts getting in the way of this
'project'.

Cheers.

Ken

Why do you say that?

Here's a "heads up" for you, Ken. There are over ten FedGov agencies,
several legal teams and the rail lines that are working with diligence on
this, and similar, projects with the full intent of attempting to pull
this
off.

While you sit on the sidelines and nay-say.

If I had a dime for cheap comments like yours, I could fund this project
out of petty cash. So goes the nature of those who do and those who
comment
about the doers.
--
Drop the alphabet for email

It may be a fine project which will produce the goods, but let's look at the
way you've brought it he
- you wanted help to get up a truck-mounted transmitted to over-ride all
AM/FM communications in an area. You wanted to drive the truck at up to
70mph through a disaster/emergency area, for no adequately explained reason
(the RF is going for a mile or two outside the area, so why drive the
truck?). You got told why it's impractical as described.
- you suddenly changed it to a loco mounted project. You struck gold on this
one as there are people here who clearly have industry experience. You're
not poo-poo'ing their skepticism, but certainly not fazed (may not be a bad
thing....). Why not pour the funds into controlling all these uncontrolled
level crossings instead of producing a 'box' to go on every loco that may
drive through the US?
- you are trying to get commercial advice in a Ham group - is this the right
venue?? I'd have thought not, though it's certainly cheap.
- having ten agencies etc etc on your side may get the project through, but
is it the right solution to whichever problem it's attacking?
- 'nay-sayers' are a pain-in-the-arse, agreed - no-one likes them! - but
sometimes you need to hear the other side.

Cheers.

Ken

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:07:51 +1300, "Ken Taylor"
wrote:


It may be a fine project which will produce the goods, but let's look at the
way you've brought it he
- you wanted help to get up a truck-mounted transmitted to over-ride all
AM/FM communications in an area. You wanted to drive the truck at up to
70mph through a disaster/emergency area, for no adequately explained reason
(the RF is going for a mile or two outside the area, so why drive the
truck?). You got told why it's impractical as described.
- you suddenly changed it to a loco mounted project. You struck gold on this
one as there are people here who clearly have industry experience. You're
not poo-poo'ing their skepticism, but certainly not fazed (may not be a bad
thing....). Why not pour the funds into controlling all these uncontrolled
level crossings instead of producing a 'box' to go on every loco that may
drive through the US?

It struck me from the very beginning as a solution looking for a
problem.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

It struck me from the very beginning as a solution looking for a
problem..

Hummmm...I haven't read any of this thread, and after seeing
the initial page, decided it wasn't worth my time..."Not related
to any certain post". I was just curious , as the thread title started
to remind me of a old "Jethro Tull" song... Resume...
MK

Is this guy done, now?

"Ari Silversteinn" wrote in message
...
DHS has proposed a change in scenario. They want an on locomotive alerting
system that could be commandeered and driven at, near or about a disaster
site. Everything else stays more or less the same, overbroadcasting on
local AM/FM, power off the locomotive, selective or full frequency
broadcasting, train (s) to be in motion at all times. 20-30 second
messages
that would also combine a message to be aware that a locomotive (at speed)
will be flying by the at grade crossings.

Comments?
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On 9 Oct 2005 21:04:30 -0700, wrote:

It struck me from the very beginning as a solution looking for a
problem..

Hummmm...I haven't read any of this thread, and after seeing
the initial page, decided it wasn't worth my time..."Not related
to any certain post". I was just curious , as the thread title started
to remind me of a old "Jethro Tull" song... Resume...
MK

"Locomotive Breath"

In the shuffling madness
Of the locomotive breath,
Runs the all-time loser,
Headlong to his death.
He feels the piston scraping --
Steam breaking on his brow --
Old Charlie stole the handle and
The train won't stop going --
No way to slow down.
He sees his children jumping off
At the stations -- one by one.
His woman and his best friend --
In bed and having fun.
He's crawling down the corridor
On his hands and knees --
Old Charlie stole the handle and
The train won't stop going --
No way to slow down.
He hears the silence howling --
Catches angels as they fall.
And the all-time winner
Has got him by the balls.
He picks up Gideon's Bible --
Open at page one --
God stole the handle and
The train won't stop going --
No way to slow down.

--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 06:10:28 GMT, Wayne P. Muckleroy wrote:

Is this guy done, now?

We were until you reopened the thread, Wayne.

duh.
--
Drop the alphabet for email