I truly believe FedEx treats YOUR package much
better than UPS!!! UPS does not seen to care much
how much "bouncing" so to speak YOUR item takes.

In the case of UPS it seems to have more to do with the shipper than
anything else.

When I get heavy items from Fair Radio via UPS the box always arrives
in pristine condition.

When I get similarly heavy items from random individuals the box is
often nearly destroyed by the time it gets to me (and often the
contents too.)

Admittedly at least part of the difference is the inexperience of J
Random Luser putting a 80 pound radio in a lightweight box filled with
styrofoam peanuts...

Tim.

On 13 Oct 2005 06:21:10 -0700, wrote:

In the case of UPS it seems to have more to do with the shipper than
anything else.

And sometimes it's the gremlins. Two horror stories:

1. Six years ago I shipped an AEA TNC to Timewave for an upgrade,
UPS insured. It was well-packed - I've spent many years doing
domestic and overseas packing of fragile household goods and
electronic equipment (and during the 1967 War a commercial ocean
shipper hired me to so some of it because his regular staff was out
doing military service) so I DO know how to pack well. Timewave
reported that the knob and shaft on the only front-panel control was
bent and had to be replaced. Fast forward to last year. I had to
ship another TNC to them, and mindful of the first experience, put
TWO INCHES of snug-wrapped bubble-pack around the instrument, then
two inches of sheet foam around that. I swear - the packing must
have weighed as much as the instrument. You guessed it - Timewave
reported that the control was damaged in shipment although the box
and the packing was intact.. Go figure.

2. Quite a number of years ago I had a commercial art framer send a
one-of-a-kind drawing cross-country to a friend of mine for a
special birthday. It went UPS insured. When it arrived, my friend
reported that there was a small crack in the glass frame and I
reported that to the shipper. They made arrangements for UPS to
return the item for re-framing. When it arrived back at the framer,
the package looked like someone had used it for a tennis racket.
The drawing was destroyed, and unfortunately the artist had passed
away and very little of his remaining collection was "on the market".
We did manage to get something not really that close, but the
"specialness" of the event was completely ruined. I don't know
who they used to ship the second time but it got there with no
further incidents. Because the shipper guaranteed the shipment, I
left it up to their lawyers to haggle with UPS.

The only problem that I've had with the local UPS delivery here is
that he leaves the package and rings the bell, and then it's a race
to see if I can open the door before I see The Big Brown Truck drive
off.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

Phil Kane wrote:
On 13 Oct 2005 06:21:10 -0700, wrote:


In the case of UPS it seems to have more to do with the shipper than
anything else.


And sometimes it's the gremlins. Two horror stories:

1. Six years ago I shipped an AEA TNC to Timewave for an upgrade,
UPS insured. It was well-packed - I've spent many years doing
domestic and overseas packing of fragile household goods and
electronic equipment (and during the 1967 War a commercial ocean
shipper hired me to so some of it because his regular staff was out
doing military service) so I DO know how to pack well. Timewave
reported that the knob and shaft on the only front-panel control was
bent and had to be replaced. Fast forward to last year. I had to
ship another TNC to them, and mindful of the first experience, put
TWO INCHES of snug-wrapped bubble-pack around the instrument, then
two inches of sheet foam around that. I swear - the packing must
have weighed as much as the instrument. You guessed it - Timewave
reported that the control was damaged in shipment although the box
and the packing was intact.. Go figure.

Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the past
that always found certain things "broken" on items returned for repair,
even when they weren't. It is a great way of bringing in a little extra
money, and the customer has no way of proving the lie... well, unless
the company tells the same lame story over and over again like Timewave
appears to have done.


2. Quite a number of years ago I had a commercial art framer send a
one-of-a-kind drawing cross-country to a friend of mine for a
special birthday. It went UPS insured. When it arrived, my friend
reported that there was a small crack in the glass frame and I
reported that to the shipper.

I'm betting this wasn't packed the way UPS says you should pack fragile
items: double box, 2 inches of packing around the item, and 2 inches of
packing around the inside box. You cannot just throw a glass frame into
a box, and fill the box with peanuts, and expect it to survive. The
frame needs a single wrap of thin foam (cardboard thickness), a piece of
wood, or masonite front and back taped firmly. This should then be placed
in a sealed plastic bag. This composit should be wrapped loosly with
2 inches of bubble wrap, and boxed. The inside box should then have
another 2 inches of loosly packed peanuts. You can set the stage for a
great amount of damage to a fragile item by simply packing the peanuts
too tightly in the box.

I have *never*, repeat *never* had a problem with UPS damaging an item
that was properly packed. On the one or two occasions I have had a damage
problem, the items were heavy, and were tossed into the box, with a little
bit of crumbled newspaper thrown in on top to fill up the empty space.

Or someone has shipped a BA that originally was shipped with the transformer
removed, with the transformer installed... stupid stuff.

That isn't UPS's fault, that is the shipper's fault.

UPS moves quickly, packages literally fly through their hub. UPS gives
recommendations on how to pack to survive. If you don't follow them,
you are taking a very big risk. FedEX's ground operations are identical
to UPS's. FedEX's air freight operations gain some protection from damage
by forcing you to use their standardized boxes.

-Chuck

Back in the minicomputer days, we had a disk drive for a DEC PDP11-70 on
order. In those days drives were large and heavy, and a single drive might
take up one-third of a rack. Well, the freight truck driver pulled up near
the loading dock, opened the rear doors and backed the semi up to the
loading dock. The driver got out again and looked around for unloading help.
Not finding any help, he climbed inside the trailer and rolled the 120 pound
crate out the back of the truck and down onto the loading dock. The height
difference between the floor of the trailer and the loading dock was about
four feet. The driver pulled forward, closed the trailer doors and drove
off. Needless to say the drive didn't work, and the shock detector inside
the packing crate indicated the drive had suffered at least one large
impulse during shipment from the factory to the customer.

"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Phil Kane wrote:
[stuff]
Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the
past...
[stuff]

In article ,
"John N9JG" wrote:

Back in the minicomputer days, we had a disk drive for a DEC PDP11-70 on
order. In those days drives were large and heavy, and a single drive might
take up one-third of a rack. Well, the freight truck driver pulled up near
the loading dock, opened the rear doors and backed the semi up to the
loading dock. The driver got out again and looked around for unloading help.
Not finding any help, he climbed inside the trailer and rolled the 120 pound
crate out the back of the truck and down onto the loading dock. The height
difference between the floor of the trailer and the loading dock was about
four feet. The driver pulled forward, closed the trailer doors and drove
off. Needless to say the drive didn't work, and the shock detector inside
the packing crate indicated the drive had suffered at least one large
impulse during shipment from the factory to the customer.

ObAlsoRealLife: the quote below came about following the revelation that
"ruggedised" PDP-11s were made for the military that were *intended* to
be airdropped and remain fully functional. The bind moggles....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If being dropped out of an aircraft into what is, for all anyone knows,
a minefield is "moderately rough handling", what would constitute
"rough handling" or "very rough handling"? -- David Richerby

Being shipped UPS. -- Dave Brown

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:49:54 -0500, "John N9JG"
wrote:

Back in the minicomputer days, we had a disk drive for a DEC PDP11-70 on
order. In those days drives were large and heavy, and a single drive might
take up one-third of a rack. Well, the freight truck driver pulled up near
the loading dock, opened the rear doors and backed the semi up to the
loading dock. The driver got out again and looked around for unloading help.
Not finding any help, he climbed inside the trailer and rolled the 120 pound
crate out the back of the truck and down onto the loading dock. The height
difference between the floor of the trailer and the loading dock was about
four feet. The driver pulled forward, closed the trailer doors and drove
off. Needless to say the drive didn't work, and the shock detector inside
the packing crate indicated the drive had suffered at least one large
impulse during shipment from the factory to the customer.


Not as serious, but I once had a drive about 2x3x4 feet in
size merely dropped off by UPS on an unattended, open loading dock --
no signature taken. That was on the shipper for not requiring a sig.
But it stood on the dock, only occasionally attended, for another
three days, with no notice to me -- my company's bad. When I fnally
called the vendor, they chased it down (pre-tracking-website) and
found it had been delivered three days earlier.

Dumb vendor -- when we later replacd a line printer with a
faster one, they were supposed to come and pick up the old one. They
screwed around for four months and finally came around for the
printer, on the third floor of a three-story building. Ha-ha -- by
that time, the freight elevator was out of service for a couple of
weeks for re-building. The vendor had to hire another outfit to come
out with expensive equipment capable of walking a heavy printer down
two wrapped flights of stairs.


"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Phil Kane wrote:
[stuff]
Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the
past...
[stuff]

In article ,
"John N9JG" wrote:

Back in the minicomputer days, we had a disk drive for a DEC PDP11-70 on
order. In those days drives were large and heavy, and a single drive might
take up one-third of a rack. Well, the freight truck driver pulled up near
the loading dock, opened the rear doors and backed the semi up to the
loading dock. The driver got out again and looked around for unloading help.
Not finding any help, he climbed inside the trailer and rolled the 120 pound
crate out the back of the truck and down onto the loading dock. The height
difference between the floor of the trailer and the loading dock was about
four feet. The driver pulled forward, closed the trailer doors and drove
off. Needless to say the drive didn't work, and the shock detector inside
the packing crate indicated the drive had suffered at least one large
impulse during shipment from the factory to the customer.


back in the "old days" didn't ups have a 70 lb limit on all boxes?

mike murphy wrote:

In article ,
"John N9JG" wrote:


back in the "old days" didn't ups have a 70 lb limit on all boxes?

Now it's 150 lbs except for Hazmat which is still 70 lbs.
I deal with UPS daily and they SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hazmat non-conus is generally sent Fed Ex and I use them everyday.
Given a choice I would ship DHL or Fed-Ex always!

In article ,
" wrote:

mike murphy wrote:

In article ,
"John N9JG" wrote:


back in the "old days" didn't ups have a 70 lb limit on all boxes?

Now it's 150 lbs except for Hazmat which is still 70 lbs.
I deal with UPS daily and they SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hazmat non-conus is generally sent Fed Ex and I use them everyday.
Given a choice I would ship DHL or Fed-Ex always!

We switched to fedex 2 years+ ago, no complaints.

ups drivers are nice guys ( they still bring stuff here, and pick up on
ocasion) but the company ( mostly insurence issues for us) sucks.

from my experience, they treat every insurence claim like fraud on the
part of their customers.

used ups for international shipments at the req of customers, they
messed up more times than not.

mike murphy wrote:
In article ,
"John N9JG" wrote:


Back in the minicomputer days, we had a disk drive for a DEC PDP11-70 on
order. In those days drives were large and heavy, and a single drive might
take up one-third of a rack. Well, the freight truck driver pulled up near
the loading dock, opened the rear doors and backed the semi up to the
loading dock. The driver got out again and looked around for unloading help.
Not finding any help, he climbed inside the trailer and rolled the 120 pound
crate out the back of the truck and down onto the loading dock. The height
difference between the floor of the trailer and the loading dock was about
four feet. The driver pulled forward, closed the trailer doors and drove
off. Needless to say the drive didn't work, and the shock detector inside
the packing crate indicated the drive had suffered at least one large
impulse during shipment from the factory to the customer.



back in the "old days" didn't ups have a 70 lb limit on all boxes?

Yep, this was a diversion to a gripe about an unnamed freight company.

-Chuck