Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

My aunt, who lives in So. Calif., along with two close neighbors, is
suddenly having problems with garage door openers. Won't open. Stop
part way down, etc. I haven't heard of amateur radio having an effect
on modern garage door remote receivers. How about BPL? Don't know if
it can effect things in the 900 Mhz region, but thought I would ask if
anyone else has seen this.

Dick - W6CCD

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

My aunt, who lives in So. Calif., along with two close neighbors, is
suddenly having problems with garage door openers. Won't open. Stop
part way down, etc. I haven't heard of amateur radio having an effect
on modern garage door remote receivers. How about BPL? Don't know if
it can effect things in the 900 Mhz region, but thought I would ask if
anyone else has seen this.


I'd be surprised at BPL causing this, given its low signal strength,
but I suppose something to consider. I recall hearing of some new
military "secure" communications system having such effect on garage
doors.... but occurs over many square miles, not just one small local.
The problem I read about was back in the South East, I think.

I guess if just a couple houses next to each other are having issues,
one would begin to look in that vicinity.


Ed K7AAT

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

In article ,
Dick LeadWinger wrote:

My aunt, who lives in So. Calif., along with two close neighbors, is
suddenly having problems with garage door openers. Won't open. Stop
part way down, etc. I haven't heard of amateur radio having an effect
on modern garage door remote receivers. How about BPL? Don't know if
it can effect things in the 900 Mhz region, but thought I would ask if
anyone else has seen this.

BPL would not, I think, as all of the BPL systems I've heard of use HF
and lowband VHF on the power lines (and some use 2.4 gig or other
ISM-band frequencies for uplink to the ISP).

I have heard of people having serious problems with Part 15 devices
which operate in the 433 MHz region (as many garage door openers do).
The primary user of this slice of spectrum is the U.S. government...
it's allocated for radiolocation (radar) and there may be other
government communications in that band as well, I suspect. Some
months ago there were reports of people living around certain
government air bases and other installations began having
garage-door-opener blackouts, because some new radar systems had gone
into use and were interfering with the Part 15 receivers.

There might be similar problems in the 900 MHz ISM band, I suppose.

A local amateur radio operator transmitting in either the 70 cm or 33
cm amateur band might cause transient overload of a Part 15 receiver
using these frequencies. I'd expect this to be a relatively
short-lived phenomenon, unless somebody's operating a popular repeater
in your neighborhood.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

There have been problems with military use of the 300 MHz band for new
radio systems, but this would not cause the door to work only half way.

Assuming the neighbors problems are coincidental, check the
counterbalance spring for the door. They wear out or break and the
opener does not have enough power to work on irs own. By the way this is
not a DIY project because of safety concerns with the springs and the
repairs can be about $300.

Dick wrote:

My aunt, who lives in So. Calif., along with two close neighbors, is
suddenly having problems with garage door openers. Won't open. Stop
part way down, etc. I haven't heard of amateur radio having an effect
on modern garage door remote receivers. How about BPL? Don't know if
it can effect things in the 900 Mhz region, but thought I would ask if
anyone else has seen this.

Dick - W6CCD



--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

There have been problems with military use of the 300 MHz band for new
radio systems, but this would not cause the door to work only half way.

Assuming the neighbors problems are coincidental, check the
counterbalance spring for the door. They wear out or break and the
opener does not have enough power to work on irs own. By the way this is
not a DIY project because of safety concerns with the springs and the
repairs can be about $300.

Dick wrote:

My aunt, who lives in So. Calif., along with two close neighbors, is
suddenly having problems with garage door openers. Won't open. Stop
part way down, etc. I haven't heard of amateur radio having an effect
on modern garage door remote receivers. How about BPL? Don't know if
it can effect things in the 900 Mhz region, but thought I would ask if
anyone else has seen this.

Dick - W6CCD



--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

In article ,
**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote:

Assuming the neighbors problems are coincidental, check the
counterbalance spring for the door. They wear out or break and the
opener does not have enough power to work on irs own. By the way this is
not a DIY project because of safety concerns with the springs and the
repairs can be about $300.

Good point!

I recently had a spring break in our 1960-vintage rolling door
setup... the door wouldn't even start to roll up with only one spring
out of two providing proper tension.

The repairman who came out and replaced it, said that he gets a
significant percentage of his business from people who first tried to
do the repair themselves... and decided to call him after they got out
of the hospital. The most common injury seems to be a broken
collar-bone. Those springs are under a *lot* of tension.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

This garage door and opener system are not more than a year old. I
don't know the brand name, but it was not inexpensive. The door does
operate perfectly with the wall button. The service people have been
out and changed out both the receiver and the remotes. Still will not
operate. That's why the serviceman thinks it has to be some kind of
RF interference. Apparently he didn't have the equipment to trace it
out.

For the record, this home is in an older residential area near the
University of California Fullerton. No military installations that I
am aware of. Something at the University or local high school might
be doing it, but the high school is a couple of blocks away, and the
University is about 1/2 mile. If I were near there, I could bring one
of my receivers and trace it down pretty quickly, but I'm 500 miles
away.

Dick

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:54:07 GMT, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote:

There have been problems with military use of the 300 MHz band for new
radio systems, but this would not cause the door to work only half way.

Assuming the neighbors problems are coincidental, check the
counterbalance spring for the door. They wear out or break and the
opener does not have enough power to work on irs own. By the way this is
not a DIY project because of safety concerns with the springs and the
repairs can be about $300.

Dick wrote:

My aunt, who lives in So. Calif., along with two close neighbors, is
suddenly having problems with garage door openers. Won't open. Stop
part way down, etc. I haven't heard of amateur radio having an effect
on modern garage door remote receivers. How about BPL? Don't know if
it can effect things in the 900 Mhz region, but thought I would ask if
anyone else has seen this.

Dick - W6CCD

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...
In article ,
**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote:

Assuming the neighbors problems are coincidental, check the
counterbalance spring for the door. They wear out or break and the
opener does not have enough power to work on irs own. By the way this is
not a DIY project because of safety concerns with the springs and the
repairs can be about $300.

Good point!

I recently had a spring break in our 1960-vintage rolling door
setup... the door wouldn't even start to roll up with only one spring
out of two providing proper tension.

The repairman who came out and replaced it, said that he gets a
significant percentage of his business from people who first tried to
do the repair themselves... and decided to call him after they got out
of the hospital. The most common injury seems to be a broken
collar-bone. Those springs are under a *lot* of tension.


A long time ago someone told me about the problems that can be caused by a
garage door spring breaking under tension. There is a simple safety
measure. Get some of the 3/16-inch stranded cable that is commonly sold at
Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Get four cable clamps. Run a length of cable
through the center of each coil spring, the length of the spring. At each
end, loop the cable through something -- there are usually holes in the door
mounting frame -- and secure with the cable clamps. This way, if the coil
spring snaps, it will not go anywhere because the cable will catch it.
Otherwise, you'll have a big piece of coil spring shooting through the
garage at almost the velocity of a bullet. Trust me, I know.





--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

I once made a service call to Automatic Door in Chicago. They had a
newspaper article on their bulletin board about some unlucky guy who
came home to find his garage door spring unwound. It seems he decided to
fix it himself and while up on the ladder he got his necktie (another
good reason to ban them) caught in the spring as it wound itself up. His
wife tried to cut him down with scissors but was too late..

Dave Platt wrote:

In article ,
**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote:



Assuming the neighbors problems are coincidental, check the
counterbalance spring for the door. They wear out or break and the
opener does not have enough power to work on irs own. By the way this is
not a DIY project because of safety concerns with the springs and the
repairs can be about $300.



Good point!

I recently had a spring break in our 1960-vintage rolling door
setup... the door wouldn't even start to roll up with only one spring
out of two providing proper tension.

The repairman who came out and replaced it, said that he gets a
significant percentage of his business from people who first tried to
do the repair themselves... and decided to call him after they got out
of the hospital. The most common injury seems to be a broken
collar-bone. Those springs are under a *lot* of tension.




--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

Read the installation manual for the opener. I installed a "Genie" at my
last house. The logic for the wired button and the remote control are
quite different. The door adjusts its speed and torque by learning from
using the wired control. There is a torque sensor which detects
blockage of the door as well. Again read the manual, it could be the
installer does not RTFM!

Dick wrote:

T(snip) The door does
operate perfectly with the wall button. (snip)
Dick




--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

Read the installation manual for the opener. I installed a "Genie" at my
last house. The logic for the wired button and the remote control are
quite different. The door adjusts its speed and torque by learning from
using the wired control. There is a torque sensor which detects
blockage of the door as well. Again read the manual, it could be the
installer does not RTFM!

Dick wrote:

T(snip) The door does
operate perfectly with the wall button. (snip)
Dick




--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

Let's forget about the door, its springs and torque adjustments. This
is an RF problem! Neither a new remote nor the original remotes will
actuate either the new receiver or the old receiver. Has nothing to
do with the door itself or the closer. There is something near that
physical location that prevents the receivers from getting a valid
signal from the remotes. I am looking for ideas as to what that might
be. This is an all-house neighborhood. No businesses of any kind.
Nearest thing other than houses is a high school two blocks away.
Power lines are overhead, not buried.

Dick - W6CCD

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 02:21:37 GMT, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote:

Read the installation manual for the opener. I installed a "Genie" at my
last house. The logic for the wired button and the remote control are
quite different. The door adjusts its speed and torque by learning from
using the wired control. There is a torque sensor which detects
blockage of the door as well. Again read the manual, it could be the
installer does not RTFM!

Dick wrote:

T(snip) The door does
operate perfectly with the wall button. (snip)
Dick

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

Let's forget about the door, its springs and torque adjustments. This
is an RF problem! Neither a new remote nor the original remotes will
actuate either the new receiver or the old receiver. Has nothing to
do with the door itself or the closer. There is something near that
physical location that prevents the receivers from getting a valid
signal from the remotes. I am looking for ideas as to what that might
be. This is an all-house neighborhood. No businesses of any kind.
Nearest thing other than houses is a high school two blocks away.
Power lines are overhead, not buried.

I think you're going to have to find something that's capable of
acting as a spectrum analyzer (or at least a crudely-tuned RF
sensor/signal-strength-meter) and start DF'ing.

A ham HT with 70 cm capability, and a 'scan' feature, might be enough
to find the signal frequency fairly quickly if it's strong enough to
interfere with Part 15 devices. Then, start hunting. A simple
hold-it-near-the-chest-and-spin-on-your-heels 'body fade' might be
enough to allow you to triangulate in on the source.

A two- or three-element Yagi hooked to a real spectrum analyzer would
probably be rather faster.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 06:20:31 -0000, (Dave Platt)
wrote:

Let's forget about the door, its springs and torque adjustments. This
is an RF problem! Neither a new remote nor the original remotes will
actuate either the new receiver or the old receiver. Has nothing to
do with the door itself or the closer. There is something near that
physical location that prevents the receivers from getting a valid
signal from the remotes. I am looking for ideas as to what that might
be. This is an all-house neighborhood. No businesses of any kind.
Nearest thing other than houses is a high school two blocks away.
Power lines are overhead, not buried.

I think you're going to have to find something that's capable of
acting as a spectrum analyzer (or at least a crudely-tuned RF
sensor/signal-strength-meter) and start DF'ing.

A ham HT with 70 cm capability, and a 'scan' feature, might be enough
to find the signal frequency fairly quickly if it's strong enough to
interfere with Part 15 devices. Then, start hunting. A simple
hold-it-near-the-chest-and-spin-on-your-heels 'body fade' might be
enough to allow you to triangulate in on the source.

A two- or three-element Yagi hooked to a real spectrum analyzer would
probably be rather faster.

I agree with you Dave. I have everything that would be needed to
trace out the interference. Unfortunately, I live 500 miles away. I
am trying to find ideas that I can offer to my 80 year-old aunt that
she can use in discussions with service people, utility companies,
etc. She is still very sharp, but lacks electronic experience.

Dick

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

If it is interference it could be from a number of different sources &
finding that source without the right equipment (most garage door
companies won't have this equipment) can sometimes be difficult.

Over the years I have seen interference from police scanners, ham
radio's, large satellite dishes when pointed in a certain direction,
cell phone towers, when a particular car was parked in the driveway
(believe the interference was from the car alarm), and other garage
door openers. Usually all of these items are relatively close to the
problem location. I have also heard but never seen that a TV cable will
also cause interference if not poperly grounded.

Within the last couple of years the military has been installing new
radio equipment that stomps all frequencies in the 375-450 range and
there are reports that this interference can range up to fifty miles
from the military installation. For years the Chambelain, Liftmaster,
Craftsman, Genie and others have been usuing the 390 frequency because
of it's reliabilty before these new installations. Last spring the
Chamberlain group of openers started using the 315 frequency to get
away from this interference problem. I don't know off hand what Genie
has done to remedy the problem.

About 6 months ago, most of Aruba started having interfernce problems
quite suddenly (no one there knows where it is coming from) and the 315
frequency solved the problem there also.

With all of that said, as others have posted interference will not
usually stop a closing door in mid travel. There may be some other
issue there or it may be that your aunt is holding the button too long
when she can't get the door to work & the opener actually ends up
receiving more then one signal from the transmitter.

Usually for a door company it is easier to install new radio controls
that are on a different frequency that will work in a certain area then
it is to find the offending source. If it is a military installation,
phone tower, etc there isn't a whole lot (if anything) a door company
or a homeowner can do to stop the interference from happening & the
only choice is to come up w/ a work around. It may sound like a cop out
or bs excuse but as we produce & use more products that work on radio
frequencies the interference problems are only going to continue to get
worse. Therefore until someone comes up w/ something different or
better we must learn to deal w/ it effectively & the best way to get
the consumer a product that will work as it's designed.

Doordoc

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

Thanks doordoc. That's what I was looking for. My aunt's door is not
the one with the open halfway then close problem. That's across the
street.. My aunt's won't operate at all with the remotes. The house
beside her has the same no operation problem. I don't know how far
this problem spreads in the neighborhood. She has already paid the
original installer $120 to troubleshoot. The installer is convinced
it is an interference problem. I am going to try to find out the make
and model to see what I can learn about frequency, etc. If I can find
out, I will post it here for comments.

Dick

On 28 Jan 2006 13:13:54 -0800, wrote:


With all of that said, as others have posted interference will not
usually stop a closing door in mid travel. There may be some other
issue there or it may be that your aunt is holding the button too long
when she can't get the door to work & the opener actually ends up
receiving more then one signal from the transmitter.

Doordoc

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

Here is the latest in the garage door opener saga. Edison Co. came to
my aunt's house and had her turn off the main power breaker. He then
asked her to have the neighbors try their openers. They worked
perfectly! The problem seems to have been related to a surge
protector she used on her computer system, but I don't know if that's
the final answer. Hers does work fine now. I have been trying to
figure out how a surge protector not connected to the opener could
affect her opener as well as the close neighbors. Must have been
putting out one heck of a spurious signal.

Dick


On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:54:22 GMT, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote:

There have been problems with military use of the 300 MHz band for new
radio systems, but this would not cause the door to work only half way.

Assuming the neighbors problems are coincidental, check the
counterbalance spring for the door. They wear out or break and the
opener does not have enough power to work on irs own. By the way this is
not a DIY project because of safety concerns with the springs and the
repairs can be about $300.

Dick wrote:

My aunt, who lives in So. Calif., along with two close neighbors, is
suddenly having problems with garage door openers. Won't open. Stop
part way down, etc. I haven't heard of amateur radio having an effect
on modern garage door remote receivers. How about BPL? Don't know if
it can effect things in the 900 Mhz region, but thought I would ask if
anyone else has seen this.

Dick - W6CCD

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

Here is the latest in the garage door opener saga. Edison Co. came to
my aunt's house and had her turn off the main power breaker. He then
asked her to have the neighbors try their openers. They worked
perfectly! The problem seems to have been related to a surge
protector she used on her computer system, but I don't know if that's
the final answer. Hers does work fine now. I have been trying to
figure out how a surge protector not connected to the opener could
affect her opener as well as the close neighbors. Must have been
putting out one heck of a spurious signal.


Very interesting find. Please post any further updates on this. I'd
like to know if the problem would transfer to another home if that surge
protector is moved to it.... also, might be interesting to put a high
frequency scope on the AC line going in,and coming out of that protector
to see what is on the 120V inputs and outputs.


Ed

Anyone Know of BPL Problems With Garage Door Openers?
 

On 11 Feb 2006 19:19:40 GMT, Ed
wrote:



Here is the latest in the garage door opener saga. Edison Co. came to
my aunt's house and had her turn off the main power breaker. He then
asked her to have the neighbors try their openers. They worked
perfectly! The problem seems to have been related to a surge
protector she used on her computer system, but I don't know if that's
the final answer. Hers does work fine now. I have been trying to
figure out how a surge protector not connected to the opener could
affect her opener as well as the close neighbors. Must have been
putting out one heck of a spurious signal.


Very interesting find. Please post any further updates on this. I'd
like to know if the problem would transfer to another home if that surge
protector is moved to it.... also, might be interesting to put a high
frequency scope on the AC line going in,and coming out of that protector
to see what is on the 120V inputs and outputs.


Ed

I'm going to see her later this year. I will have her save the surge
protector for me so I can bring it back home for test.

Dick