I can't find the part of the FCC regs that provide these frequencies for
unlicensed stations. Can anybody share the chapter and verse?

Jim


There are a couple of frequiencies for unlicensed low power am stations.
You
can see them in use by real estate folks selling houses. There are no
commercial stations on the frequency.

Yes, and at Disney World, etc. This is a very doable idea and may well
solve FCC/DoD issues.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:09:19 +1300, "Ken Taylor"
wrote:

"Ari Silversteinn" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:31:36 -0700, Richard Clark wrote:

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:33:52 -0400, Ari Silversteinn
wrote:
OK, so we supply the amplification.

OK, this is just a re-run of previous speculations. You don't know
the depth of your energy budget crisis, do you?

Open coffers.

--
He wasn't referring to your finance budget, but your energy budget. I
hesitate to say it can't be done in any practical sense, but that's my
thought.

Hi Ken,

His terse reply refers to the public coffers - troughs - open for this
fabulous pork barrel feast. You know, crack dealer capitalism.

Nothing has to actually work, or be useful, or even be used. It just
has to generate paper in one direction, and cash in the other. Ari is
mining us as a dry run for all the terms, shortfalls, and fits to the
jigsaw to rummage up into a proposal.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

It can be found under the section that allows a transmitter as long as it is
less than some number of milliwatts per meter.

If you really need the exact section, I will drag out the regs and get it
for you.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
I can't find the part of the FCC regs that provide these frequencies for
unlicensed stations. Can anybody share the chapter and verse?

Jim


There are a couple of frequiencies for unlicensed low power am
stations.
You
can see them in use by real estate folks selling houses. There are no
commercial stations on the frequency.

Yes, and at Disney World, etc. This is a very doable idea and may well
solve FCC/DoD issues.

That is part 15 and it isn't just a couple of frequencies, it is any
frequency in the AM broadcast band (and the FM broadcast band, for that
matter).

Specifically, 15.219 allows operation on any frequency in the band so long
as (a) the input power to the final stage is less than 100 mW and (b) the
antenna "system" (radiating element, coax, and ground lead) is less than 3
meters long.

15.221 also allows operation with an unspecified power level into leaky coax
with a field strength limitation.

Power is not milliwatts per meter. Power is milliwatts. Field strength
(also an allowed measurement) is in volts per meter.

The OP said that there were a "couple of frequiencies(sic)for unlicensed low
power am(sic) stations." That implied that there were a couple of
frequencies that were unused in the AM band by commercial stations, and I
just wanted to have a reference to WHAT they were and WHERE in the regs they
were delineated.


Jim



"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
It can be found under the section that allows a transmitter as long as it
is
less than some number of milliwatts per meter.

If you really need the exact section, I will drag out the regs and get it
for you.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
I can't find the part of the FCC regs that provide these frequencies for
unlicensed stations. Can anybody share the chapter and verse?

Jim


There are a couple of frequiencies for unlicensed low power am
stations.
You
can see them in use by real estate folks selling houses. There are no
commercial stations on the frequency.

Yes, and at Disney World, etc. This is a very doable idea and may well
solve FCC/DoD issues.

In this case the milliwatts per meter refers to frequencies stated in
meters.

Volts per meter only applies to the E component, the magnetic component is
always stated in amps per meter.

I will get back to you on the specifics. I am pretty sure that my brain is
not suffering from a senior moment as to my recollection of the regs.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Power is not milliwatts per meter. Power is milliwatts. Field strength
(also an allowed measurement) is in volts per meter.

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:31:37 -0400, "Fred W4JLE"
wrote:
In this case the milliwatts per meter refers to frequencies stated in
meters.

Hi Fred,

Is this to suggest that for 300MHz it is 1mW total input power as say
compared to 1MHz allowing 300mW?

This would be uncharacteristically generous of the FCC whose
regulations would ban emissions from dummy loads.

Seems it would hardly serve Ari's search for pork, but I suppose
grantsmanship would jump at sending a marathon of runners through the
spill area - each carrying sub-Watt handi-talkies to provide the
aggregate power, and spectrum, and lung volume necessary to "get the
warning out."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard the value changes per band and is stated in part 15. For example in
the broadcast band the formula is 24000 /F for microvolts at 1000 feet.

There are certain bands that no emissions are allowed from a low powered
device. For example setting up your neighborhood micro Rap Station on 121.5
MHz (aircraft emergency) would probably bring a swift shut down.

I am still searching for the reg that allows fixed information stations.
IIRC they can be run on 530 and 1750 KHz. I know in the past I had looked at
the regs and the particular station I was researching was indeed legal.

In the low freqs (140 KHz area) you can run up to 1 watt CW with out a
license.

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:31:37 -0400, "Fred W4JLE"
wrote:
In this case the milliwatts per meter refers to frequencies stated in
meters.

Hi Fred,

Is this to suggest that for 300MHz it is 1mW total input power as say
compared to 1MHz allowing 300mW?

This would be uncharacteristically generous of the FCC whose
regulations would ban emissions from dummy loads.

Seems it would hardly serve Ari's search for pork, but I suppose
grantsmanship would jump at sending a marathon of runners through the
spill area - each carrying sub-Watt handi-talkies to provide the
aggregate power, and spectrum, and lung volume necessary to "get the
warning out."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Not quite. That is the limit in 15.209, with the following caveat
"...except as provided elsewhere in this subpart..."

Elsewhere in the subpart (15.219 and 15.221) we have the limit for the band
525-1705 kHz. (AM broadcast band) the 100 mW and 3 meter antenna restriction
OR a 15 uV/m restriction at a distance of (47.715/(frequency in kHz.))
meters (which is also lambda/(2 * pi)) from leaky coax.

BTW, it is 24000/F uV/m at 30 meters from 490 to 1705 kHz., which is more
like 100 feet, not 1000 feet (15.209).


Jim



"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...

Richard the value changes per band and is stated in part 15. For example
in
the broadcast band the formula is 24000 /F for microvolts at 1000 feet.

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:07:40 +1300, Ken Taylor wrote:

There are a couple of frequiencies for unlicensed low power am stations.
You
can see them in use by real estate folks selling houses. There are no
commercial stations on the frequency.

Yes, and at Disney World, etc. This is a very doable idea and may well
solve FCC/DoD issues.
--
When was the last time you listened to one of those frequencies? It won't
get the message out where it's needed.

They suck, I was hoping it was my rental car!
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:09:19 -0400, Fred W4JLE wrote:

It can be found under the section that allows a transmitter as long as it is
less than some number of milliwatts per meter.

If you really need the exact section, I will drag out the regs and get it
for you.

Does this fall under LPFM/LPAM?
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:51:06 -0700, RST Engineering wrote:

The OP said that there were a "couple of frequiencies(sic)for unlicensed low
power am(sic) stations." That implied that there were a couple of
frequencies that were unused in the AM band by commercial stations, and I
just wanted to have a reference to WHAT they were and WHERE in the regs they
were delineated.

Jim

Truth is, I was thinking about reserved but not yet assigned AM/FM
frequencies.
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:46:33 -0700, Richard Clark wrote:

Seems it would hardly serve Ari's search for pork,

Hey, I'm Jewish, sort of.
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:09:50 -0700, RST Engineering wrote:

Not quite. That is the limit in 15.209, with the following caveat
"...except as provided elsewhere in this subpart..."

Elsewhere in the subpart (15.219 and 15.221) we have the limit for the band
525-1705 kHz. (AM broadcast band) the 100 mW and 3 meter antenna restriction
OR a 15 uV/m restriction at a distance of (47.715/(frequency in kHz.))
meters (which is also lambda/(2 * pi)) from leaky coax.

BTW, it is 24000/F uV/m at 30 meters from 490 to 1705 kHz., which is more
like 100 feet, not 1000 feet (15.209).

Jim

So if I need to go out 3500 feet or so, this won't work. Correct?
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:04:25 +1300, Ken Taylor wrote:


MOF, it has reared its ugly hi speed head again.
--
Sorry, what's 'MOF'?

Matter of fact.....
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:09:19 +1300, Ken Taylor wrote:

OK, this is just a re-run of previous speculations. You don't know
the depth of your energy budget crisis, do you?

Open coffers.

--
He wasn't referring to your finance budget, but your energy budget. I
hesitate to say it can't be done in any practical sense, but that's my
thought. The idea of one poster to transmit on the IF's is a good one but I
didn't suggest that because you'll also kill your emergency services comm's.

lol What;s being tossed around is the ability to allow FEMA et all to kill
the ability to transmit and/or we can upon knowing that the emerg comms are
in use.

Incidentally, do you plan to have every loco in the US fitted out or are you
going to fly the loco's to the incident site to do their stuff?

Cheers.

Ken


--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:55:29 -0700, Richard Clark wrote:


Open coffers.

--
He wasn't referring to your finance budget, but your energy budget. I
hesitate to say it can't be done in any practical sense, but that's my
thought.

Hi Ken,

His terse reply refers to the public coffers - troughs - open for this
fabulous pork barrel feast. You know, crack dealer capitalism.

Nothing has to actually work, or be useful, or even be used. It just
has to generate paper in one direction, and cash in the other. Ari is
mining us as a dry run for all the terms, shortfalls, and fits to the
jigsaw to rummage up into a proposal.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Considering that we have many technologies in use, mof, all technologies
that are not in development are in use, this is a load of horse****. If we
build it to spec, whatever that spec is, it will be proprietary and how and
when they use it is not in our hands.
--
Drop the alphabet for email

Incorrect.

Jim




"Ari Silversteinn" wrote in message
...



BTW, it is 24000/F uV/m at 30 meters from 490 to 1705 kHz., which is more
like 100 feet, not 1000 feet (15.209).

Jim

So if I need to go out 3500 feet or so, this won't work. Correct?
--
Drop the alphabet for email

You are correct Jim, mistyped the extra zero.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Not quite. That is the limit in 15.209, with the following caveat
"...except as provided elsewhere in this subpart..."

Elsewhere in the subpart (15.219 and 15.221) we have the limit for the
band
525-1705 kHz. (AM broadcast band) the 100 mW and 3 meter antenna
restriction
OR a 15 uV/m restriction at a distance of (47.715/(frequency in kHz.))
meters (which is also lambda/(2 * pi)) from leaky coax.

BTW, it is 24000/F uV/m at 30 meters from 490 to 1705 kHz., which is more
like 100 feet, not 1000 feet (15.209).


Jim



"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...

Richard the value changes per band and is stated in part 15. For example
in
the broadcast band the formula is 24000 /F for microvolts at 1000 feet.

Which zero?

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:44:44 -0400, Fred W4JLE wrote:

You are correct Jim, mistyped the extra zero.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Not quite. That is the limit in 15.209, with the following caveat
"...except as provided elsewhere in this subpart..."

Elsewhere in the subpart (15.219 and 15.221) we have the limit for the
band
525-1705 kHz. (AM broadcast band) the 100 mW and 3 meter antenna
restriction
OR a 15 uV/m restriction at a distance of (47.715/(frequency in kHz.))
meters (which is also lambda/(2 * pi)) from leaky coax.

BTW, it is 24000/F uV/m at 30 meters from 490 to 1705 kHz., which is more
like 100 feet, not 1000 feet (15.209).


Jim



"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...

Richard the value changes per band and is stated in part 15. For example
in
the broadcast band the formula is 24000 /F for microvolts at 1000 feet.