Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewithother.
 

notbob wrote:

On 2006-06-21, Dave wrote:


I served for 6 years as Program Chief Engineer on the USAF MX
Missile (WS-118) RS/RV].


You bragging or complaining?

nb

Debunking a 'LABEL'

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewithother.
 

Dr. Noonian Soong wrote:

darpa dave wrote:


I served for 6 years as Program Chief Engineer on the USAF MX
Missile (WS-118) RS/RV].


MX missiles destroyed my country, you insensitive clod!

Soong



MX missiles have never been launched operationally. They were decommissioned by
treaty after the fall of the Soviet Union.

If they had been used WE wouldn't be here!

You are mistaken.

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewithother.
 

Dr. Noonian Soong wrote:
darpa dave wrote:


I served for 6 years as Program Chief Engineer on the USAF MX
Missile (WS-118) RS/RV].


MX missiles destroyed my country, you insensitive clod!

Soong


In as much as the MX missile carries a hydrogen warhead I don't think
that Soong's country was destroyed by one.

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...

In as much as the MX missile carries a hydrogen warhead I don't think
that Soong's country was destroyed by one.


Dr. Nagel,

You please listen to me, I get PhD from big university. My university so
expensive most American can't buy cafeteria lunch.

Long time ago, many years, I make secret lair in Bikini Atoll. American
call it that, but I rename to Soong's Micronesian Micronation. It has nice
ring to it.

Anyway, I build androids and mind my own business, but one day I monitor
Americans and they say they blow up my island. Some missile test, but I say
waste of perfectly good rocks.

I detect submarine with my acoustics, and I transmit on ELF and say "Don't
blow up my island please!" But my Engrish so bad, they get confused and jam
me with much megawatts. I not give up though. I build big ideograph out of
bamboo, it say "Don't blow up my island thanks". But they have no analyst
that read my language. I escape in nick of time in my junk ship.

look at picture, see big hole in middle of island?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_Atoll

MX missile destroy me. Now I teach dumb punk how to repair personal
computer. I get revenge. I build big contest station and beat everyone.

Soong

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewithother.
 

NOPE! The MX missile has 100% nothing to do with the Bikini Tests! Those tests
were conducted after WWII and ended in the 1950s. The MX missile initial
deployment was 1985.

By today's standards, the Bikini tests were low yield [~20KT] fission devices.
Today's standard is moderate yields [~300 to 500 KT] fission-fusion devices.

MX has nothing to do with Bikini Atoll.

Have fun building your androids.

Dr. Noonian Soong wrote:
"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...


In as much as the MX missile carries a hydrogen warhead I don't think
that Soong's country was destroyed by one.



Dr. Nagel,

You please listen to me, I get PhD from big university. My university so
expensive most American can't buy cafeteria lunch.

Long time ago, many years, I make secret lair in Bikini Atoll. American
call it that, but I rename to Soong's Micronesian Micronation. It has nice
ring to it.

Anyway, I build androids and mind my own business, but one day I monitor
Americans and they say they blow up my island. Some missile test, but I say
waste of perfectly good rocks.

I detect submarine with my acoustics, and I transmit on ELF and say "Don't
blow up my island please!" But my Engrish so bad, they get confused and jam
me with much megawatts. I not give up though. I build big ideograph out of
bamboo, it say "Don't blow up my island thanks". But they have no analyst
that read my language. I escape in nick of time in my junk ship.

look at picture, see big hole in middle of island?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_Atoll

MX missile destroy me. Now I teach dumb punk how to repair personal
computer. I get revenge. I build big contest station and beat everyone.

Soong

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Dee Flint wrote:
"DrDeath" wrote in message
...
"Slow Code" wrote in message

Well I described a number of alternatives to learning and he persists in
saying he cannot learn code. Now I have not insulted him that I know of
(although it's difficult to predict what one might take as an insult).
you don't understand why callign someone liar is an insult

then you are truly dumber than Wismen

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

DrDeath wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
. ..
DrDeath wrote:

SNIPPED

Something I just thought of at the spur of the moment (not to mention
keeps me on topic), some disabled person should sue to remove ALL code
requirements, or offer an exclusion to those with disabilities to not
have to take ANY code test under the Americans with Disability Act. I'm
sure that person could even get a free ACLU lawyer to handle it.

Many years ago, 1950s, there was a very active 10 meter ham in Danvers,
Massachusetts, during the period of Class A, B and C licenses. He was an
arthritic quadriplegic. He was wheel chair bound, lived alone, and
required visiting help to get into and out of bed and have his meals
prepared and served.

He had a Class C [Conditional] license. He learned to copy 'read' CW in
his head although he did not have the ability to send. I don't think he
would consider a lawsuit appropriate.
so what?

with all due respsct to this man his problem were not mine (nor mine
his)

Some of the OTs on this list may have worked him. W1JFS, Les MacCrakin.
God Rest His Soul.

/s/ DD, W1MCE

He may not, but others that may be dyslexic, deaf, or other handicapped
person may deem a lawsuit appropriate.
May word begin to look for the accololypse I agree with every word in a
post from Dr Death

aloouth the use of this story doess illustrate what is called in some
circle "cripple casts" where the more visible handicaps claim if they
greater entitlement to accomodation

and as I have said it has been disucussed aclu is not interested and a
few people I know are looking for an antonry to take it on, however few
are willing as long as the FCC contiues to dangle the likehood they
would act in less than the 5 or years prusuing that would take

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

DrDeath wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. net...
Dee Flint wrote:
Well I described a number of alternatives to learning and he persists in
saying he cannot learn code. ... The fact that
he can speak and understand the spoken word means he can learn code at
the basic level of 5wpm.

A completely deaf person can speak and read lips but he/she
still cannot even hear Morse code. What you need to understand
is that something that seems normal to you is missing in some
people. If an amateur radio license required dunking a basket-
ball, could you do it? As one who can dunk a basketball, I can
tell you all you need is enough will and effort and you can do it.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

With deaf people use can use a light or a subwoofer for them to copy code. I
don't want to stereotype deaf people, but I have found many of them to be
hooked on entitlements and expect unreasonable accommodations.
all the accomodation I want is my own hearing aid in this is my trusty
code reader

OTOH since that does absicaly oviate the the test I beleive fairness
demands I support ending the tst all together as serving no legitimate
RUGULATORY prupose

I have a
relative that refuses to wear a hearing aid, and then gets angry when there
are communication problems. This person is physically able to work; yet sits
around on my tax dollars playing the feel sorry for me card.
well I earn aliving pay my taxes I just want legal right to fair access
to the spectrum that is comon to all of us as american (in the USA
abraud YMMV)

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
DrDeath wrote:
I have found many of them to be
hooked on entitlements and expect unreasonable accommodations.

Well then, why not just declare deafness to be a
capital crime in order to solve your personal
problem with deaf people?
don't give him any ideas he comes close to express such a solution to
many of those that don't make the grade in some fashion wrt HIS
personal standards
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Steveo wrote:
"DrDeath" wrote:
With deaf people use can use a light or a subwoofer for them to copy
code.

Wonder why no-code ass hats like lee scott, eric oyen, doug adair, and mark
morgan can't get it done? (they're not deaf, just brain dead hud dwelling
sissy's)
but we all but have and I know we are aon the edge of success

CW is for old people anyway aint it? :)

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Steveo wrote:
"DrDeath" wrote:
-snipper-
Mark chooses to sit on
his ass sucking the entitlement system dry and contributing nothing to
society, while this person decided to make the best of his what God gave
him and he contributes to the same entitlement system that Mark chooses
to deplete.

Testify! That asswipe is too dumb to come in out of the rain. He's best
left ignored.
yet funny you can't do that neither of you

you go on and on about me and yet you insist you are ignoring me?

get help

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Steveo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
Can you dunk a basketball? If not, get back to us when you can.

I didn't know that was the hitch..can you still dunk?

If I don my knee braces, I still can. Can you?

The point is that some things are possible for each
individual and other things are impossible. Anybody
who can't dunk a basketball or pass a MENSA exam should
know how a person feels when they can't learn Morse code.
Cecil as good as it is your analogy still fails thanks to the fact that
if I can drunk (and I have no idea wether I can or not) it only means
something In Basketball. now if one inabilty to duck a basketball
barred them from all sports then you rise closer to the level of what
the code test is in the ARS
I personally think it would improve the ARS to only allow
MENSA engineers to be a member. How does that make you feel?

One of the brightest engineers I know, who has a commercial
FCC license and was the engineer at an AM broadcast station,
couldn't get past 5wpm so he was condemned to Tech class for
30 years. He knows more about radio than any ten other hams.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewithother.
 

an_old_friend wrote:
Cecil as good as it is your analogy still fails thanks to the fact that
if I can drunk (and I have no idea wether I can or not) it only means
something In Basketball. now if one inabilty to duck a basketball
barred them from all sports then you rise closer to the level of what
the code test is in the ARS

What you don't seem to realize is that dunking a basketball
and knowing Morse code are equally useful in the ARS.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
Cecil as good as it is your analogy still fails thanks to the fact that
if I can drunk (and I have no idea wether I can or not) it only means
something In Basketball. now if one inabilty to duck a basketball
barred them from all sports then you rise closer to the level of what
the code test is in the ARS

What you don't seem to realize is that dunking a basketball
and knowing Morse code are equally useful in the ARS.
well If Could dunk a basket ball it would be useful in being able to
put up antennas and such, but I begin to see your point
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Dee Flint wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. net...
Dee Flint wrote:

It took me 3 months of daily practice of an hour or more every day to get to
5wpm. That's over 90 hours.
try 5 years at 40minute per day, I frankly prefer not to do the math to
come up with the nuber of hours

and still NO sucess

now of course if you respond to me at all you blame my metohod or my
unkonwn to you teachers etc.

everything to avoid the central issue why is Code knowledge more
important than the rest of Ham radio combined

that is the issue of course I say more important since their question
in pools about cw that tip it from equal to the rest to more important

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

David G. Nagel wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
David G. Nagel wrote:

Deaf persons have succussfully completed the code portion of the
testing at all levels of speed. Some use a vibrator attached to their
wrist. Others us a light. As mentioned elsewhere "never say never".


But that certainly doesn't satisfy the letter of the regulations.
To do that, they must "copy by ear".

No, it does satisfy the alternative methods of copying code as
specified by the FCC.

but never satified the treaty lang on the subject and therefore in
violation of international law

Dave WD9BDZ

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Why not get rid of the code? Really, why not make the written exam easier?
Just make exams covers enough to make sure some idiot doesn't kill
themselves or some body else.

Have only one class of license called "Amateur Radio License", with full
access to all bands. No matter what class a person holds now it would be
renewed as only "Amateur Radio License". Novices would be grandfathered
in.You couldn't get any worse class of ham than we do with the 20wpm
wonders.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Steveo wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote:
He is his own biggest enemy.

Dee Flint, N8UZE

He's our tax dollars at work.
you do love elling that lie

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Sal M. Onella wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..



Dee Flint, N8UZE


I don't think you insulted me -- it was whoever said I don't deserve a
license.

I beliveveSal I was being addressed

However, I do think it's a bit of a stretch to say that I can learn code
just because I can speak and understand words. You should see what my raw
typing looks like before I go back and fix it prior to hitting send (or
should I say "sned," which was what I typed the first time -- typically four
or five of those per line.) It's pretty bad.

indeed it likely looks much like what I send to the gruops on many
occasion (sine these folks were never satisfied with even my more
polished work)

I'm thinking of trying to learn the dits and dahs as strings of written dots
and dashes on paper. According to everything I've been told or exposed to,
that is not recommended.
The ARRL VEC will not premite that in code even as an accomdation
All the training says the goal is to perceive each
letter as a consolidated unit of sounds without any intermediate translation
steps. Well, since I'm positive that isn't working, particularly for
characters of four or more elements ... maybe a graphical alternative is in
order.

but it isn't allowed by the largest organiztion involed in code
testing, the erefusual of the Code testing side to enage in any
meanfull compromises is what finaly convinced to to aid and fight the
NoCode cause over some kind of compromise

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Dee Flint wrote:
"Sal M. Onella" wrote in message
news:wRKmg.447$RD.95@fed1read08...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..


Typing and reading are visually based. So it makes sense that those are a
problem. But do you have difficulty saying words or hearing them? Just
because the typing is a problem, doesn't mean that the aural/spoken is a
problem. Reading/writing is a different activity than hearing/speaking and
uses different parts of the brain. While I can't imagine a graphical method
working for a dyslexic since it's visual, who can say for sure.
you claim to have certain knowledge of whta is and isn't possible

By the way, I still have problems with longer characters now and then or
combinations of certain characters. I had an awful time trying to copy a
call sign in a contest that began with SH5 (3 dots, 4 dots, 5 dots).
and you dare claim it must be doable by everyone else

you lies are becomeing tangled Dee

Dee Flint, N8UZE

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Dee Flint wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. com...
Dee Flint wrote:
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

You have extracted something from my post that was never there. No one has
ever said that the purpose of hams knowing code was to hear a ship sending
an SOS.
wrong again Dee Flint amny have said exactly that wether you have ever
been amoug them

In addition, he might have a light rigged for cw, which he could see as he
moved about the room.
backpedal

Digital modes fail on a regular basis due to static, auroras, etc.
they do

How many times, say during Katrina did this occour

or for that matter name an insitance where digital mode failed , in an
emergency and Cw encoded morse got through and saved the day

It's a
good idea to have a non-voice, non-computer alternative.
why?

a clear alternive is to increase the over all number of stations to
decrease the chance that progation will fail to devlier the message
some where

and How does CW testing produce a working CW listening station

Dee Flint, N8UZE

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Dee Flint wrote:
"DrDeath" wrote in message
...
"Steveo" wrote in message

LOL, I sure have no interest in CW. I must still be young :-P


The highest level of interest for learning the code is among the young.
then based on the seenses at VE testing Morse Code is truly doomed

why is it that you want tot eh ARS to go down with it?

Dee Flint, N8UZE

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

David wrote:
Recently I can across a "music" track that is about 5 minutes long that
teaches Morse by the sound of the characters.

If you would find this helpful I may be able to get a copy of it and
place it on an ftp server for you.

Regards

David
not clear who you are addresing

but this method get tried on most dyslexics and rarely works

why gald I asked becuase most dyslexcs ebd up doing the easier for us
task on meoris 5 minutes of letter (learn though correcting our efforts
at the end) rather managing to sort of the tone

In Dyslexia, ones is up against one own brain and the methods one has
learned to work around the misfiring nurons most dyslexic learn very
effectve methods of dealing with, and the btter the devolped method is
the harder it is to defeat. Code testing tries to channel one down a
path of limited choices

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Typing and reading are visually based. So it makes sense that those are
a
problem. But do you have difficulty saying words or hearing them? Just
because the typing is a problem, doesn't mean that the aural/spoken is a
problem. Reading/writing is a different activity than hearing/speaking
and
uses different parts of the brain. While I can't imagine a graphical
method
working for a dyslexic since it's visual, who can say for sure.
you claim to have certain knowledge of whta is and isn't possible

you are probably correct. linguistics is mainly concerned with spoken
language, not written. in some languages like English, you'll note that
people kind of speak the words out in their brain. other languages like
Mandarin seem to be converted directly from characters into ideas.

ok, what burns me up is people claiming they can't learn code. there are
languages that are tonal, configurational, have bizarre sounds, that put the
object before the subject, that have thousands of characters. 99% of the
planet learns their native language!

code is NOT that different than a language. if you must, you can interpret
it as tones, and simply write out the tones on a piece of paper and decode
them.

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

By the way, I still have problems with longer characters now and then or
combinations of certain characters. I had an awful time trying to copy
a
call sign in a contest that began with SH5 (3 dots, 4 dots, 5 dots).
and you dare claim it must be doable by everyone else

same here!

i have trouble with high speed B, 6, 1, J. however, you can create a
practice regimen that focuses on these.

a trick for contests might be using a spectrograph or MFJ viewer. good
luck.

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

By the way, I still have problems with longer characters now and then or
combinations of certain characters. I had an awful time trying to copy
a
call sign in a contest that began with SH5 (3 dots, 4 dots, 5 dots).
and you dare claim it must be doable by everyone else

good practice is beacons e.g. 10 meters. they are terse text, contain
slashes, and 5s since i hear Texas ones.

you sort of have to "decode" what the beacon is talking about.

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

How many times, say during Katrina did this occour

uh, if you are deserted on an island with a few buckets of electronics junk,
your best bet is CW.

if you a prisoner of war, CW could be invaluable in getting a message out.
there are many other cases where CW can be used in channels that don't
support audio.

i am a superior creature because i know CW! ;-)

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

I am a superior creature because I know the NECA code, as CW will not pay
your bills.

i'm a professional contester! (it violates the rules, but we do it anyway.)

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore
than that

your engineering skill is formidable.

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

gravity wrote:
and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore
than that

your engineering skill is formidable.
possibly it is certainly more valueble the the mereknowledge of Morse
code is without the level of engineering skill I have

BTW I note myone of my double majors was Physics and a phisists can
general anything the various engineers can we just take a lot longer to
do it (and make more mistakes than tsomeone trains to think inside the
box of a given engineering type

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewithother.
 

gravity wrote:
and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore
than that

your engineering skill is formidable.

I don't know much about spark. Was the length of the spark
controllable such that dots and dashes could be differentiated?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
om...
gravity wrote:
and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore
than that

your engineering skill is formidable.

I don't know much about spark. Was the length of the spark
controllable such that dots and dashes could be differentiated?

click short pause clack = dit
click long pause clack = dah

i think it would be hard to decode vs listening to a modern receiver.

i believe spark gap would be useless in a rescue situation.

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

gravity wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
om...
gravity wrote:
and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore
than that

your engineering skill is formidable.

I don't know much about spark. Was the length of the spark
controllable such that dots and dashes could be differentiated?

click short pause clack = dit
click long pause clack = dah

i think it would be hard to decode vs listening to a modern receiver.
if all the was being sent was sos then it it should e hard and RDF
should pin it down soon enough

certainly more than geting to atrue CW rig up and running on some
desert Ilse

i believe spark gap would be useless in a rescue situation.
becuase yo want to belive it usless mostly I suspect

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

In article .com,
"an old freind" wrote:

gravity wrote:
and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing anymore
than that

your engineering skill is formidable.
possibly it is certainly more valueble the the mereknowledge of Morse
code is without the level of engineering skill I have

BTW I note myone of my double majors was Physics and a phisists can

So you majored in Physics but you can't spell Physicist? Right!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Mike

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

So you majored in Physics but you can't spell Physicist? Right!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Mike

i'd like to know his area of concentration. i was not in Physics, but
studied electromagnetism.

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
"an old freind" wrote:

gravity wrote:
and I can send sos with spark gap off a batery without knowing
anymore
than that

your engineering skill is formidable.
possibly it is certainly more valueble the the mereknowledge of Morse
code is without the level of engineering skill I have

BTW I note myone of my double majors was Physics and a phisists can

So you majored in Physics but you can't spell Physicist? Right!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

at a minimum, he would know quantum mechanics, statistical mechanics,
special relativity, electromagnetics. if he was theoretical, he studied
quantum field theory and general relativity.

PC Technician Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

BTW I note myone of my double majors was Physics and a phisists can

the other major was underwater basketweaving?

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

gravity wrote:
Typing and reading are visually based. So it makes sense that those are
a

code is NOT that different than a language. if you must, you can interpret
it as tones, and simply write out the tones on a piece of paper and decode
them.
which is espressly forbiden y the ARRL in code testing

and not allowed by most VE teams wether arrl or not, even as an ADA
acomodation

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

gravity wrote:
BTW I note myone of my double majors was Physics and a phisists can

the other major was underwater basketweaving?
history

Msater degrees In Geophysics and Byzatine studies, the sadly is the
degree I have found most uslefull over the years working with
sometimes for sometimes just around the Us govt

Gravity

Elimination of CW is a loss in the number of ways we can communicatewith other.
 

Msater degrees In Geophysics and Byzatine studies, the sadly is the
degree I have found most uslefull over the years working with
sometimes for sometimes just around the Us govt

that's quite impressive, must have cost you $100,000.

you should not stoop to arguing with uneducated people.

--... ...--

Gravity