Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of
Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment of radio receivers. I first came across this circuit in some old Hallicrafter's documentation, which described the alignment of a particular radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" consists of four components--- a 200pf cap in series with a 20 uH inductor, which links the signal generator to the receiver's antenna input. A 400 pF cap in series with a 400 ohm resistor is connected in parallel with (shunts)the inductor. I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this true? What is the import of the component values and how were they arrived at? I modeled the circuit in Spice and graphed the transfer and impedance curves but it is not entirely clear to me what benefit there is to using this circuit. I've also Googled this and found some references here and there, but nothing explains the "why" of it. Is there anyone who can shed light on this? 73 Pete AC7ZL hpf (at) gainbroadband (dot) com |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
"H. P. Friedrichs" wrote:
I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment of radio receivers. I first came across this circuit in some old Hallicrafter's documentation, which described the alignment of a particular radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" consists of four components--- a 200pf cap in series with a 20 uH inductor, which links the signal generator to the receiver's antenna input. A 400 pF cap in series with a 400 ohm resistor is connected in parallel with (shunts)the inductor. I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this true? What is the import of the component values and how were they arrived at? I modeled the circuit in Spice and graphed the transfer and impedance curves but it is not entirely clear to me what benefit there is to using this circuit. I've also Googled this and found some references here and there, but nothing explains the "why" of it. Is there anyone who can shed light on this? 73 Pete AC7ZL hpf (at) gainbroadband (dot) com Its to match the receiver to the generator. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Michael A. Terrell wrote: "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment of radio receivers. Its to match the receiver to the generator. Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while connected to a signal generator. Jeff -- RESTRICTED AREA. Anyone intruding shall immediately become subject to the jurisdiction of military law. Intruders will be subject to lethal force, without warning, and on sight. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED under the Internal Security Act of 1950. |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
"Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message ... Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while connected to a signal generator. Jeff Ahhh, so for the very first time, I finally hear an answer to one of those things that I've scratched my head about for years! I've often wondered why the literature always says to stick a capacitor inline from the signal generator -- I figured if I had to do this all the time, then why didn't the signal generator maker put one in there? Turns out, usually they do, but it's probably not an impedance match. Still, for most radios I just stick the probe to the antenna and go to town. It's fine for the IF -- enough of it gets past the RF to give me a workable signal. Then for RF I use whatever frequency I need to check/adjust the LO. For final RF adjustments I plug in the antenna and tweak it up on a weak station. Again, I probably differ from most of you because I work mainly with car radios. I already have a pretty decent antenna at the bench -- some $10 special from Auto Zone -- that does a great job. On a conversion there are no RF adjustments; on a repair/rebuild, I can do every adjustment except one, the one which must be done inside the car anyway -- the antenna trimmer. However even this gets checked -- I've noticed that with my bench antenna, the trimmer usually adjusts toward the "high" end, with the screw fairly loose. So if the trimmer tweaks in this area I'm fine. If it tweaks "tight", or not at all, I'll adjust the slug as needed -- or troubleshoot. Actually it is rare that I ever have such a problem -- with one exception: the 58-60 T-Bird radios. Even these are just fine, usually, but I've had a number of them whose front ends are way off. I've spent many hours trying to figure out why, and come up with nothing. I've replaced RF caps, checked the range of trimmers, checked resistor tolerances, and basically gone over the circuit with a fine tooth comb. Everything checks perfect, but the alignment is out. So I adjust the tuning slug -- a pretty fair distance -- to bring it in line. I've had a couple that were so far off that I had to tinker with the others as well. It's really fun because those slugs are WAA-AAY up in there, and difficult to reach. You can't do it with a non-ferocious screwdriver, or even a ferocious one -- it's too tight. You have to reach the shaft with needle-nose. In any case, all this fun aside, I can tinker and bring it into line -- but I still wonder why I have to do it in the first place. I think my next step in this "investigation" is to spend time with the next 58-60 T-Bird I get for conversion. If it's a good radio, when I disassemble I'll measure the tuning slugs, trimmers, fixed coils, etc., and write them down for reference. -- Gary E. Tayman/Tayman Electrical Sound Solutions For Classic Cars http://www.taymanelectrical.com |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Maybe the slugs have lost some permeability. Which way do you have to
tune, more or less inductance? Ken Gary Tayman wrote: "Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message ... Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while connected to a signal generator. Jeff Ahhh, so for the very first time, I finally hear an answer to one of those things that I've scratched my head about for years! I've often wondered why the literature always says to stick a capacitor inline from the signal generator -- I figured if I had to do this all the time, then why didn't the signal generator maker put one in there? Turns out, usually they do, but it's probably not an impedance match. Still, for most radios I just stick the probe to the antenna and go to town. It's fine for the IF -- enough of it gets past the RF to give me a workable signal. Then for RF I use whatever frequency I need to check/adjust the LO. For final RF adjustments I plug in the antenna and tweak it up on a weak station. Again, I probably differ from most of you because I work mainly with car radios. I already have a pretty decent antenna at the bench -- some $10 special from Auto Zone -- that does a great job. On a conversion there are no RF adjustments; on a repair/rebuild, I can do every adjustment except one, the one which must be done inside the car anyway -- the antenna trimmer. However even this gets checked -- I've noticed that with my bench antenna, the trimmer usually adjusts toward the "high" end, with the screw fairly loose. So if the trimmer tweaks in this area I'm fine. If it tweaks "tight", or not at all, I'll adjust the slug as needed -- or troubleshoot. Actually it is rare that I ever have such a problem -- with one exception: the 58-60 T-Bird radios. Even these are just fine, usually, but I've had a number of them whose front ends are way off. I've spent many hours trying to figure out why, and come up with nothing. I've replaced RF caps, checked the range of trimmers, checked resistor tolerances, and basically gone over the circuit with a fine tooth comb. Everything checks perfect, but the alignment is out. So I adjust the tuning slug -- a pretty fair distance -- to bring it in line. I've had a couple that were so far off that I had to tinker with the others as well. It's really fun because those slugs are WAA-AAY up in there, and difficult to reach. You can't do it with a non-ferocious screwdriver, or even a ferocious one -- it's too tight. You have to reach the shaft with needle-nose. In any case, all this fun aside, I can tinker and bring it into line -- but I still wonder why I have to do it in the first place. I think my next step in this "investigation" is to spend time with the next 58-60 T-Bird I get for conversion. If it's a good radio, when I disassemble I'll measure the tuning slugs, trimmers, fixed coils, etc., and write them down for reference. |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
"H. P. Friedrichs" wrote in message news:1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest .com... I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment of radio receivers. I first came across this circuit in some old Hallicrafter's documentation, which described the alignment of a particular radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" consists of four components--- a 200pf cap in series with a 20 uH inductor, which links the signal generator to the receiver's antenna input. A 400 pF cap in series with a 400 ohm resistor is connected in parallel with (shunts)the inductor. I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this true? What is the import of the component values and how were they arrived at? I modeled the circuit in Spice and graphed the transfer and impedance curves but it is not entirely clear to me what benefit there is to using this circuit. I've also Googled this and found some references here and there, but nothing explains the "why" of it. Is there anyone who can shed light on this? 73 Pete AC7ZL Yes, the dummy antenna models a wire resonant at 2.something Mc. I suppose that was taken to be more or less typical of the receiver antennas of the 30s. The dummy antenna's most important use is as a standardized load for measuring receiver sensitivity. Terman's Radio Engineer's Handbook has a few paragraphs on this. If you're just adjusting the RF coils, peaking them up on the antenna normally used would be as good or better. Any sort of loose coupling between the generator and RF coils will get you in the ballpark with most radios. Frank Dresser |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Well put, John.
I have understood the purpose of the 'matching network' for years, but I have been puzzled by the source impedance expected on the generator side. I have several RF generators of various vintages in my collection and most of the older tube ones have most peculiar output attenuators that would have impedances that vary all over the place depending on the setting of the output attenuator, frequency and, to some degree, output cable length. On 'modern' generators, once you cut in 10dB or more of attenuator, the output inpedance it pretty close to the specified, but even many of them are quite a low impedance at 0 dB. Perhaps someone with spice can characterize the output impedance of the IRE network when fed from a generator of 0 ohm, 50 ohm, 75 ohm and, say, 200 ohm output impedance. Neil S. John Byrns wrote: In article , wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment of radio receivers. Its to match the receiver to the generator. Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while connected to a signal generator. This doesn't sound right, why would it be desirable "to present a uniform high impedance from the generator to the radio"? The impedance of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" is not exactly what I would call "high" especially on some of the short wave bands, exactly what is a high impedance in this context? It was my understanding that the purpose of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" was to provide a standard antenna to use for making performance measurements, as well as for alignment at the factory and on the service bench. As to the exact design of the of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna", I understood that it was meant to represent the impedance characteristics a typical antenna that might be used by a radio set owner. This topic has been discussed here before and I seem to vaguely remember that someone may have even dug up the exact nature of the antenna the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" was designed to simulate. IIRC if you are only doing MW broadcast band alignments a single capacitor will provide a very good approximation of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" across the MW broadcast band. The coil, resistor and second capacitor are there mainly to provide the desired impedance on the short wave bands where the prototype antenna has resonant effects There are at least two problems that the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" solves, the first being standardized measurements for obtaining performance specifications, as it is possible for a manufacturer to "improve" his products specifications by using his own specially designed "Dummy Antenna". The second problem is how to align sets in the factory, or on the service bench, when the final users actual antenna system is not available. The problem is that the alignment of the antenna stage of a radio is greatly affected by the impedance of the actual antenna that is used with the radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" provides an approximation of what was assumed to be a typical consumer antenna. Of course what you really want to do is align the set with the actual antenna attached that it is used with. Regards, John Byrns Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/ |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
It's really fun because those slugs are
WAA-AAY up in there, and difficult to reach. You can't do it with a non-ferocious screwdriver, or even a ferocious one -- it's too tight. You have to reach the shaft with needle-nose. In any case, all this fun aside, I can tinker and bring it into line -- but I still wonder why I have to do it in the first place. ================================== I always use tame screwdrivers which don't need to be caged. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:51:10 -0700, "H. P. Friedrichs"
wrote: I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this true? "The Institute of Radio Engineers has defined the INPUT SENSITIVITY OF A RECEIVER as the number of microvolts required to produce standard output when applied through a dummy antenna having the characteristic impedance of the antenna with which the receiver is intended to operate, to the input terminals of the receiver." Boonton, 1954 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
H. P. Friedrichs wrote: I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment of radio receivers. I first came across this circuit in some old Hallicrafter's documentation, which described the alignment of a particular radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" consists of four components--- a 200pf cap in series with a 20 uH inductor, which links the signal generator to the receiver's antenna input. A 400 pF cap in series with a 400 ohm resistor is connected in parallel with (shunts)the inductor. I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this true? What is the import of the component values and how were they arrived at? I modeled the circuit in Spice and graphed the transfer and impedance curves but it is not entirely clear to me what benefit there is to using this circuit. I've also Googled this and found some references here and there, but nothing explains the "why" of it. Is there anyone who can shed light on this? 73 Pete AC7ZL hpf (at) gainbroadband (dot) com I built an I.R.E. dummy antenna recently to perform an alignment on a Hallicrafters S-120. It is cobbled together on a small perfboard with copper lands around the holes, has a length of coax with a male BNC connector to go the the sig-gen and a female BNC connector to attach the sig-gen lead. I will post a pic on a.b.p.r when I can. Bobby KC9IHK |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Pete, I was curious about the dummy antenna, too. Some time ago I
modeled it and checked the impedance looking back into the output leads with a 50-ohm generator at the source. The results are he http://users.tns.net/~bb/dummy.htm Before I did the model I figured that the dummy antenna was trying to simulate a certain length of wire on shortwave. But you can see that the magnitude of the output impedance (upper plot) is around 400 ohms throughout the shortwave part of the spectrum. Down in the broadcast band the network becomes almost purely capacitive, which is what a short wire will do. In fact, at 500 and 1000 kHz (the two spots I checked), the dummy impedance is almost exactly that of a wire that runs 15 feet vertically and then 90 feet horizontally over perfectly conducting ground. I imagine they had a 100-foot wire in mind, a figure I think I've seen recommended for BC antenna length in the old days. So I think the network is intended to be 400 ohms resistive at SW and at BC behave as a 100-foot wire would. I align radios with the network and then at installation I tweak the antenna capacitors, if they are easily accessible, on the actual antenna. Brian |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Brian--
Your spice simulation looked familiar...VERY familiar. As it turns out, I had plotted similar curves and happened to have used Microcap as well! I was just not sure I understood the relationship between the transfer function I saw and some kind of physical antenna. Your comments make sense, though I do have one question: How did you calculate the impedance of the antenna with the shape and dimensions that you described? 73 Pete AC7ZL Brian wrote: Pete, I was curious about the dummy antenna, too. Some time ago I modeled it and checked the impedance looking back into the output leads with a 50-ohm generator at the source. The results are he http://users.tns.net/~bb/dummy.htm Before I did the model I figured that the dummy antenna was trying to simulate a certain length of wire on shortwave. But you can see that the magnitude of the output impedance (upper plot) is around 400 ohms throughout the shortwave part of the spectrum. Down in the broadcast band the network becomes almost purely capacitive, which is what a short wire will do. In fact, at 500 and 1000 kHz (the two spots I checked), the dummy impedance is almost exactly that of a wire that runs 15 feet vertically and then 90 feet horizontally over perfectly conducting ground. I imagine they had a 100-foot wire in mind, a figure I think I've seen recommended for BC antenna length in the old days. So I think the network is intended to be 400 ohms resistive at SW and at BC behave as a 100-foot wire would. I align radios with the network and then at installation I tweak the antenna capacitors, if they are easily accessible, on the actual antenna. Brian |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Brian wrote: The results are he http://users.tns.net/~bb/dummy.htm Nice charts, thanks for doing those. So I think the network is intended to be 400 ohms resistive at SW and at BC behave as a 100-foot wire would. Pretty much what I said initially. A uniform high impedance. As others pointed out the output attenuator of most "service" grade signal generators at the time was all over the place. What I find amazing is that what we can do with Spice in a few minutes was painstakingly done by hand until the they got the results they desired. Then published as a "cook book" standard for others to use. The bottom line was that you could introduce a signal into the receiver under test without undue de-tuning of the tuned circuits. Jeff -- RESTRICTED AREA. Anyone intruding shall immediately become subject to the jurisdiction of military law. Intruders will be subject to lethal force, without warning, and on sight. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED under the Internal Security Act of 1950. |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Your comments make sense, though I do have one question: How did you
calculate the impedance of the antenna with the shape and dimensions that you described? With a computer program. Brian |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Pete, I forgot to mention the reason I believe the IRE dummy antenna
tries to look like a 400-ohm resistive load at shortwave instead of a certain length of wire. You can see why he http://users.tns.net/~bb/antlen.gif This is an old RCA chart showing the behavior of an end-fed wire for lengths to 125 feet. It indicates the many resonances and antiresonances a short wire can exhibit. Since the antenna impedance and the resulting performance vary so markedly with wire length, and because it would be unrealistic to expect all listeners to use one particular length, I think the dummy antenna is just intended to roughly match the input impedance of a typical radio. I'm not sure about consumer radios, but old communications receivers all seem to have a specified input impedance of either 300 or 400 ohms. On the broadcast band, any wire shorter than about 150 feet will look capacitive. It won't exhibit the resonances you see in the chart at shortwave. So even if the wire is shorter than the 100-foot length the dummy antenna seems to model and exhibits a higher capacitive reactance, it won't affect the radio's RF tracking that much. On the broadcast band, most radios seem to use rather loose antenna coupling to minimize mistracking. This allows them to accomodate antennas of various length. There is an interesting discussion about antenna coupling strategies in the Radiotron Designer's Handbook. Brian |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
GREAT info, that's why I lurk here often.
Just one teensy question, though...is this polarized?, e.g. the 200pf cap is the receiver probe, the inductor plus shunt is the signal gen connection? or versa-vice? Thanks, Terry Bakowski [see you at the Peoria Superfest] H. P. Friedrichs wrote: I first came across this circuit in some old Hallicrafter's documentation, which described the alignment of a particular radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" consists of four components--- a 200pf cap in series with a 20 uH inductor, which links the signal generator to the receiver's antenna input. A 400 pF cap in series with a 400 ohm resistor is connected in parallel with (shunts)the inductor. |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
Brian,
This link seems to be broken. Pete AC7ZL Brian wrote: Pete, I forgot to mention the reason I believe the IRE dummy antenna tries to look like a 400-ohm resistive load at shortwave instead of a certain length of wire. You can see why he http://users.tns.net/~bb/antlen.gif This is an old RCA chart showing the behavior of an end-fed wire for lengths to 125 feet. It indicates the many resonances and antiresonances a short wire can exhibit. Since the antenna impedance and the resulting performance vary so markedly with wire length, and because it would be unrealistic to expect all listeners to use one particular length, I think the dummy antenna is just intended to roughly match the input impedance of a typical radio. I'm not sure about consumer radios, but old communications receivers all seem to have a specified input impedance of either 300 or 400 ohms. On the broadcast band, any wire shorter than about 150 feet will look capacitive. It won't exhibit the resonances you see in the chart at shortwave. So even if the wire is shorter than the 100-foot length the dummy antenna seems to model and exhibits a higher capacitive reactance, it won't affect the radio's RF tracking that much. On the broadcast band, most radios seem to use rather loose antenna coupling to minimize mistracking. This allows them to accomodate antennas of various length. There is an interesting discussion about antenna coupling strategies in the Radiotron Designer's Handbook. Brian |
Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna
This link seems to be broken.
Pete, I remove temporary items from my web site pretty quickly due to space restrictions. I tried to e-mail the chart to you but got the following reply: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 591 your host [216.86.143.7] is blacklisted by bl.spamcop.net. No mail will be accepted) No more midnight spam for me! Anyway, the chart is back up for a couple more days. By the way, on the perfboard I used to build my dummy antenna I added a 0.1 uF coupling capacitor between the signal generator input and a second output lead with an alligator clip. This provides a 50-ohm DC-isolated signal for IF alignment. I usually align radio IFs by sweeping a signal at the front end, often just blasting through the RF and mixer stages at 455 kHz. But the alligator clip is handy when I want to drive the mixer grid directly. You can drive the grid with the dummy network, but the 50-ohm source impedance of the direct output ensures that the parallel impedance at the grid doesn't affect the sweep flatness. Brian |
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