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Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Hi all
Is there anyone in the group who has a 1980 ARRL handbook who could scan and email me the circuit of the xtal calibrator/marker generator. I've a friend building replica glowbug regen receivers who needs this info to help get his unit operational. Thanks miken, zl1bnb |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
miken ) writes:
Hi all Is there anyone in the group who has a 1980 ARRL handbook who could scan and email me the circuit of the xtal calibrator/marker generator. I've a friend building replica glowbug regen receivers who needs this info to help get his unit operational. Thanks miken, zl1bnb You'd do well to give an idea of what's inside. The Handbook changes glacially, so chances are good any specific article is in more than one edition. Michael VE2BVW |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Hello Miken:
I found my 1981 ARRL Handbook. They have a "marker" generator, which uses an LF-353, a 4001 and a 4013 - all integrated circuits. There is also a simple 2 transistor 100 kHz oscillator. The marker generator puts out 100, 50 and 25 kHz. When I read the request for a circuit to supplement a glowbug, I thought a tube crystal calibrator would be what was wanted, and thought perhaps the later 1981 edition might have abandoned a tube version. So, I pulled out a 1972 ARRL Handbook and even then all they had was solid state. If you are going to use integrated circuits in a glowbug receiver, you need to hide them, since it is unbecoming and might cause others to ridicule the otherwise heroic effort to recreate a glorious radio. A simple tube can do a wonderful job of putting out 100 kHz signals, and if you want 50 kHz, you can use a neon bulb divider. Many of the simple receivers I built would have been lost with a 100 kHz marker. A 1 MHz marker would have been more useful, and even then I was guessing at the which MHz it was. The best marker was simply a crystal in the ham band and a known point. Something like 3550 kHz, which could also be used to spot at 7100 kHz. Even odd marked frequencies are useful - then a properly hand calibrated graph laminated on the front panel (ala HRO) will give a feeling that none of the wonderful new rigs can touch. 73, Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
"COLIN LAMB" wrote in message ... Hello Miken: I If you are going to use integrated circuits in a glowbug receiver, you need to hide them, since it is unbecoming and might cause others to ridicule the otherwise heroic effort to recreate a glorious radio. A simple tube can do a wonderful job of putting out 100 kHz signals, and if you want 50 kHz, you can use a neon bulb divider. Many of the simple receivers I built would have been lost with a 100 kHz marker. A 1 MHz marker would have been more useful, and even then I was guessing at the which MHz it was. The best marker was simply a crystal in the ham band and a known point. Something like 3550 kHz, which could also be used to spot at 7100 kHz. Even odd marked frequencies are useful - then a properly hand calibrated graph laminated on the front panel (ala HRO) will give a feeling that none of the wonderful new rigs can touch. 73, Colin K7FM Colin do you have a link for using a neon lamp as a frequency divider? This is the first reference I've seen for this, and I'm fascinated to learn more about it. Peter |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Hi Peter:
That will teach me tomake a statement without my resources handy, so please do not time me. I have started looking now. I recall that there are probably one or more in Hints and Kinks, none in the ARRL Handbook (it was pretty basic as far as test equipment0, one or more in QSTs from the 50s and various other books. I have most of those so will go through them. We have a lot of readers, so do not be bashful if you know the references. Some of the early computers used neon bulbs as dividers and the circuit is in some of those textbooks. Well, go ahead and time me starting - - now. Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
"Uncle Peter" ) writes:
"COLIN LAMB" wrote in message ... Hello Miken: I If you are going to use integrated circuits in a glowbug receiver, you need to hide them, since it is unbecoming and might cause others to ridicule the otherwise heroic effort to recreate a glorious radio. A simple tube can do a wonderful job of putting out 100 kHz signals, and if you want 50 kHz, you can use a neon bulb divider. Many of the simple receivers I built would have been lost with a 100 kHz marker. A 1 MHz marker would have been more useful, and even then I was guessing at the which MHz it was. The best marker was simply a crystal in the ham band and a known point. Something like 3550 kHz, which could also be used to spot at 7100 kHz. Even odd marked frequencies are useful - then a properly hand calibrated graph laminated on the front panel (ala HRO) will give a feeling that none of the wonderful new rigs can touch. 73, Colin K7FM Colin do you have a link for using a neon lamp as a frequency divider? This is the first reference I've seen for this, and I'm fascinated to learn more about it. Peter When I saw Colin start to suggest a tube calibrator, my thought was "what will you use for a divider, a neon bulb?" But like him, I can't put my fingers on a circuit. Undoubtedly somewhere someone did build a crystal calibrator with a neon divider to get closer together markers, before there were IC dividers. Another common place would be electronic organs, they'd use neon bulb dividers to get the next lower octave from a master oscillator. I'm sure in those "101 things to do with Neon Bulb" books, or even the wide coverage articles in the magazines, would have a divider. One Rufus P. Turner book I do have from the tube era has no such dividers. I can't find the one book about electronic musical instruments that has a lot of organ circuitry, which likely does have dividers. Tube era frequency counters likely used them to some extent. I am blank about how they worked. It may be like a synchronized oscillator, using the crystal oscillator to sync a free running neon bulb multivibrator. There were also pulse counters, collect pulses until they voltage of the collected pulses trigger something and it starts over again. I'm sure I've seen the basic principle, whatever it is, used with unijunction transistors and even 555s, they all operate basically the same. But I sure can't find an exact reference in the books I have handy. Michael VE2BVW |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Hi Michael:
I know I have seen at least a few circuits, but so far I have not put my eyeballs on one. I checked QST back to 1950, being distracted a bit when I came upon the Clipperton Island DXpedition. Also checked a number of Hints and Kinks. Even used Google. I found a number of references to them, but no actual circuit. Although they were used in electronic organs, I know I have seen crystal calibrator circuits using them. Shhhhh. Please do not let my wife know that, with bookcases spread out all over I cannot find the circuit. Her idea is that if I have not looked at something in the last 15 minutes, I should discard it - even though she still keeps her old clothes she does not fit into anymore. And, remember that the neon bulb also makes a nice low current screen regulator, too. (oh, oh, now someone will ask for that circuit.) Back to the library, Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
In the process of looking for the neon bulb divider, I found a few circuits
using a ECC81, or a 12AU7 or a 6U8 divider - and one circuit even using a simple rc oscillator locked by the 100 kHz crystal to yield 50 kHz signals. That was in QST. 73, Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Michael Black wrote:
snip I am blank about how they worked. It may be like a synchronized oscillator, using the crystal oscillator to sync a free running neon bulb multivibrator. Neon bulb bistable multivibrators were staples of low speed digital counters and of course electronic organs; the circuit relies on hysteresis of twin bulbs connected through a common (cathode) resistor. I may post links to some example implementation diagrams. There were also pulse counters, collect pulses until they voltage of the collected pulses trigger something and it starts over again. One can use a charge pump (diode pump) to accumulate (constant width and amplitude) pulses until neon bulb breakdown potential is reached and the bulb discharges the output capacitor restarting the cycle. Regards, Michael |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Is there anyone in the group who has a 1980 ARRL handbook who could
scan and email me the circuit of the xtal calibrator/marker generator. I've a friend building replica glowbug regen receivers who needs this info to help get his unit operational. Maybe the following will be of help: QST page: * 12, May '37: "A 100-Kc. E.C. Oscillator for Frequency Checking" uses a 24A tube * 53, May '37: "100-kc. Calibrating Oscillator" uses a 6L6 tube * 40, Jan '39: 1000 Kc calibrator uses 6F6 tube * 34, Sep '41: 50-, 100-, and 1000-kc oscillator uses three switched LC combinations and one 117L7GT tube * 52, May '45: "Battery-powered one-tube 450- and 1500-kc. signal generator" (1G4, 1H5, or 30 tube) * 31, Oct '51: Uses both halves of a 6SN7 dual triode to produce 50-kc signals * 68, May '52: "Simple crystal marker oscillator" uses a 6J5 tube plus two resistors and 'most any crystal. This is the SIMPLIST calibrator circuit I've seen! * 41, Jun '52: "...Frequency Standard...Oscillator" uses a 6F6 oscillator, both halves of a 6SN7 as a multivibrator, and a 6K8 buffer/mixer to give 100-kc and 10-kc points * 43, Sep '52: "Fig. 2 - Oscillator circuit for a simple 100-kc crystal standard" uses a 6AU6 tube and NO inductor! * 40, Jul '54: Uses a 6AK5 to produce 100/50-kc harmonics * 14, Mar '55: "Frequency Marker with 50-Kc. Intervals" uses a 6AK5 and both "halves" of a 6U8 to provide harmonics up to 30 Mc. * 61, Jul '59: "100-kc calibrator with 1-kc markers" uses a 6AU6 oscillator and an NE-2 sub-harmonic generator * 30, Mar '62: Uses a 6AU6 oscillator at 100 kc and a 12AU7 multivibrator to also give 50 kc markers * 33, Jan '65: Uses a 6AQ5 oscillator at 100 kc and a 6AS6 10-kc sub-harmonic generator (no diode and NO inductors!) * 34, May '65: Uses a 6AU6 oscillator at 100 kc, a 12AU7 multi- vibrator for 10 kc points, and another 12AU7 ACCURACY: multivibrator for 1 kc points! CQ page: * 35, Jul '47: "A Simple Frequency Standard" uses both halves of a 6SN7 and one semiconductor diode (an easily-hidden 1N34) to produce 1000- and 100-kc signals up to about 60 mc. * ??, Apr '55: "500-kc Marker" uses a 6AU6 tube * 29, Dec '55: "A Heterodyne Crystal Calibrator AND CODE PRACTICE OSCILLATOR" uses both halves of a 7N7, 6SN7, or 12AU7 (or pairs of many triodes) and two crystals to give marker signals at the DIFFERENCE of the two crystals RADIO-ELECTRONICS page: * 34, Oct '55: "Dual-Frequency Crystal Calibrator" uses a dual- frequency crystal and a 6AK5 to produce outputs at 1000- and 100-kc. Adds a 1N34 diode and a 6BE6 tube to make a harmonic generator. Adds an NE-51 as a relaxation oscillator to make the marker points more-easily recognized! * 52, Sep '66: "Crystal Calibrator" for CB; uses a 6C4 oscillator If those aren't enough, I can also cite several "utility oscillators" (which are usually coil-less). -- --Myron A. Calhoun. Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge NRA Life Member & Certified Instructor for Rifle, Pistol, & Home Firearm Safety Also Certified Instructor for the Kansas Concealed-Carry Handgun (CCH) license |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Myron, you get the research gold star. I see the 1959 QST article uses a
neon bulb, although it was not the one I was thinking of. I think I quit in QST when I got to 1959 because I thought the transistors would eliminate the tube dividers. I was about to go through CQ, though, so you saved a lot of time there. Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Myron, you get the research gold star.
Thanks. I see the 1959 QST article uses a neon bulb, although it was not the one I was thinking of.... That one used the NE-51? Another one used an NE-2. I was about to go through CQ, though, so you saved a lot of time there. For the almost-50 years I've been a ham, my method of indexing articles has been to TEAR & FILE. Most QST's, CQ's, HAM RADIO, RADIO ELECTRONICS, RADIO & TELEVISION (in its many incarnations), 73's, and several other electronic-related magazines, including many printed before I was born, have passed through my ripping claws, so all I did was turn to the right file (labeled "frequency standards", in this case) and start listing them. I also have an almost-complete set of QST's dating back through 1936, but quit saving the actual magazines in 1977 (78?) when they went to the bigger format. I'm thought about buying the CD set, but, at my age, the payback will not happen. Unfortunately, I've spent more time tearing & filing than I have building, and now, what with the Internet.... Someday I've just gotta get my priorities right. --73, Myron, W0PBV. -- --Myron A. Calhoun. Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge NRA Life Member & Certified Instructor for Rifle, Pistol, & Home Firearm Safety Also Certified Instructor for the Kansas Concealed-Carry Handgun (CCH) license |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
"COLIN LAMB" ) writes:
Myron, you get the research gold star. I see the 1959 QST article uses a neon bulb, although it was not the one I was thinking of. I think I quit in QST when I got to 1959 because I thought the transistors would eliminate the tube dividers. I was about to go through CQ, though, so you saved a lot of time there. I would have stopped about then also, not so much that we'd see dividers at that point, they were never a routine part of crystal calibrators until logic ICs became readily available (you did see dividers before, but they weren't common), but because transistors were starting to come in. Transistors were ideal for such small projects, because they didn't need filament power (or B+), and they weren't ready for power or high frequency use. The earliest Handbook I have is 1961, and I see a transistorized crystal calibrator but no tube based one. Michael VE2BVW |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
"miken" wrote in message ... Hi all Is there anyone in the group who has a 1980 ARRL handbook who could scan and email me the circuit of the xtal calibrator/marker generator. I've a friend building replica glowbug regen receivers who needs this info to help get his unit operational. Thanks miken, zl1bnb Try the BAMA boatanchor manual archive. I know at least the calibrator schematic for the Heath HR-10 receiver is posted there. It should be easy to duplicate. Pete |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
"COLIN LAMB" wrote in message ... Hi Peter: Well, go ahead and time me starting - - now. Colin K7FM Hi Colin Please don't go to any great effort on my part! I didn't think about using two neons in a multivibrator! I wonder what the maximum useable frequency would be, and the strength of the harmonics... Pete k1zjh |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
The harmonics should easily go to 30 MHz. Good measure of sensitivity as
the harmonics decrease as you go higher. If one band drops greater in proportion to the others, then that band could have a problem. Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
In article ,
Michael Black wrote: do you have a link for using a neon lamp as a frequency divider? This is the first reference I've seen for this, and I'm fascinated to learn more about it. Peter When I saw Colin start to suggest a tube calibrator, my thought was "what will you use for a divider, a neon bulb?" But like him, I can't put my fingers on a circuit. Undoubtedly somewhere someone did build a crystal calibrator with a neon divider to get closer together markers, before there were IC dividers. Another common place would be electronic organs, they'd use neon bulb dividers to get the next lower octave from a master oscillator. I'm sure in those "101 things to do with Neon Bulb" books, or even the wide coverage articles in the magazines, would have a divider. There's a section in my GE "Glow Lamp Manual" on neon dividers. sync in -------------+ | 250 V ----/\/\/\---+---|*|-----+------|*|-----gnd 5.6M | n1 n2 | +------|(-----+-------|(----gnd | c1 | c2 | +------- output | | +------|(-----+-------|(----gnd c3 | c4 +------- sync output C2 = 10 * C1 (For 200 Hz output, .005 and .05 uF) C3 = C4 = 100 pF The problem here is that neon bulb relaxation oscillators top out at, according to the charts in the book, at between 10 and 30 kilohertz, depending on bulb type. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
"Mark Zenier" wrote in message ... In article , The problem here is that neon bulb relaxation oscillators top out at, according to the charts in the book, at between 10 and 30 kilohertz, depending on bulb type. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) I was curious if there was a limit on the upper frequency, and I was wondering about the waveform as well; that is if the circuit can produce strong harmonics up into the upper HF regions. It would be an interesting project to build! Pete |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Ok, finally found a single tube 100 kHz. crystal oscillator that uses a neon
bulb relaxation oscillator that is synchronized to achieve 10 kHz signals. The article appears in the fifth edition of Amateur Radio Techniques, on page 287 and 288. It cites the original article from DL-QTC (August 1966). The relaxations circuit is set up on the screen of the pentode oscillator, which is also used as the feedback source for the crystal. So, it is used apparently used as a synchronized 10 kHz source for the oscillator tube, which is then operated as a mixer. So, we do not need the neon bulb to operate at a high frequency. 73, Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
COLIN LAMB wrote:
Ok, finally found a single tube 100 kHz. crystal oscillator that uses a neon bulb relaxation oscillator that is synchronized to achieve 10 kHz signals. Phase Locked Lightbulbs? :) -- One phrase that explains 99% of all idiot driving: "You can't block traffic if you're not in the way." |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
clifto wrote:
COLIN LAMB wrote: Ok, finally found a single tube 100 kHz. crystal oscillator that uses a neon bulb relaxation oscillator that is synchronized to achieve 10 kHz signals. Phase Locked Lightbulbs? :) Not really so bizarre; there are stories of certain computers with light- sensitive neon bulbs in the logic that were affected by ceiling fluorescent lighting when panels were removed from the racks... Regards, Michael |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:12:13 -0500, msg wrote:
clifto wrote: COLIN LAMB wrote: Ok, finally found a single tube 100 kHz. crystal oscillator that uses a neon bulb relaxation oscillator that is synchronized to achieve 10 kHz signals. Phase Locked Lightbulbs? :) Not really so bizarre; there are stories of certain computers with light- sensitive neon bulbs in the logic that were affected by ceiling fluorescent lighting when panels were removed from the racks... Regards, Michael The trigger point does shift with light or RF. Black paint on the lamp will take care of the light. In my "junk that should have been thrown away" I have a frequency counter that I built from an artical in QST many years back that used 10 neons per digit. Many years after the fact I realized that it might have been more practical if the Neon high voltage had been gated off during the counting phase and on only to display the count. But then it would not have looked nearly as impressive during operation. John Ferrell W8CCW "Life is easier if you learn to plow around the stumps". |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
"clifto" wrote in message ... Phase Locked Lightbulbs? :) There was a circuit where numerous NE2s were wired on the circumference of a circle as individual relaxation oscillators. At first, the firing pattern was entirely random, but over time the lamps would synchronize and fire in order! The light from an adjacent lamp would lower the firing point the one next to it. Pete |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
The neon bulb was a wonderful device for a young boy to play with - and for
those that do not entirely grow up. It energized at about 60 volts, although that varied from tube to tube. ARC-5 receivers used them across their input, to discharge static electricity. They were great for hams with meager funds since you could place one near the final and determine if there were parasitics, by the color of the glow. Sensitivity could be increased by putting a dc voltage on the plates just under what it took to fire. Then, a slight amount of rf would add to that base and fire the bulb. Little pocket testers would distinguish between ac or dc, by simply looling to see whether one or two plates were lighted. Light wuld affect the sensitivity, as well as heat. You could apply a voltage just under the firing voltage, then put your finger near it and it would light. Although I never built one, it probably would have made a great lightning indicator, with directional probes connected to indicate which quadrant the lightning was coming from. As I recall, we used to salvage neon bulbs from old flouroscent light starters. And, of course, they were good for neutralizing those old triode finals. 73, Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
clifto ) writes:
COLIN LAMB wrote: Ok, finally found a single tube 100 kHz. crystal oscillator that uses a neon bulb relaxation oscillator that is synchronized to achieve 10 kHz signals. Phase Locked Lightbulbs? :) Well no, because there's no loop. It wasn't uncommon to inject a bit of signal from one source to an oscillator to synchronize them. That's what was used in oscilliscopes that didn't have triggered sweep. I seem to recall that's what was used to synchronize TV set vertical sweep to the incoming signal. THere were lots of examples. PLL's were too costly and complicated during the tube era for common use, and any real referenfes to PLLs in the hobby magazines didn't arrive till the late fifties. Early seventies, and they were all over the place, because ICs had made them a lot more practical. ANd I suppose there was suddenly a need; after all, most of the early PLL synthesizers described in the ham magazines were for 2M FM use, where crystal control was used in virtually all rigs, but the cost was too much when you wanted a lot of channels. Michael VE2BVW |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
Hi Colin
Thats the one, you've confirmed the device line-up,a 4016was incorrectly in the place where a 4013 should have been, so it's no surprise the marker wasn't functioning correctly. There's a separate band-edge marker using a 3.5 MHz xtal. Many thanks de miken, zl1bnb On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:25:26 -0700, "COLIN LAMB" wrote: Hello Miken: I found my 1981 ARRL Handbook. They have a "marker" generator, which uses an LF-353, a 4001 and a 4013 - all integrated circuits. There is also a simple 2 transistor 100 kHz oscillator. The marker generator puts out 100, 50 and 25 kHz. When I read the request for a circuit to supplement a glowbug, I thought a tube crystal calibrator would be what was wanted, and thought perhaps the later 1981 edition might have abandoned a tube version. So, I pulled out a 1972 ARRL Handbook and even then all they had was solid state. If you are going to use integrated circuits in a glowbug receiver, you need to hide them, since it is unbecoming and might cause others to ridicule the otherwise heroic effort to recreate a glorious radio. A simple tube can do a wonderful job of putting out 100 kHz signals, and if you want 50 kHz, you can use a neon bulb divider. Many of the simple receivers I built would have been lost with a 100 kHz marker. A 1 MHz marker would have been more useful, and even then I was guessing at the which MHz it was. The best marker was simply a crystal in the ham band and a known point. Something like 3550 kHz, which could also be used to spot at 7100 kHz. Even odd marked frequencies are useful - then a properly hand calibrated graph laminated on the front panel (ala HRO) will give a feeling that none of the wonderful new rigs can touch. 73, Colin K7FM |
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
|
Xtal calibrator, 1980 ARRL Handbook
In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote: "Mark Zenier" wrote in message ... In article , The problem here is that neon bulb relaxation oscillators top out at, according to the charts in the book, at between 10 and 30 kilohertz, depending on bulb type. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) I was curious if there was a limit on the upper frequency, and I was wondering about the waveform as well; that is if the circuit can produce strong harmonics up into the upper HF regions. It would be an interesting project to build! The book is pretty vague on the speed of a discharge. Neon lamps are sloppy parts. They age, their characteristics vary by how much illumination they get from other lights (or built in radiation), they take tens of milliseconds to settle down after they've turned off, etc. So the discharge speed is a pretty loose spec. Scanning the scope photo of a 7 kHz oscillation and feeding it into The Gimp (Linux's equivalent of Photoshop), it looks like the fall time of the sawtooth is about 30 microseconds, out of a total cycle of 140 microseconds. (A 4.7 meg resistor, a 50 pF cap, and an 5AB (a tight spec NE-2), at 140 volts). Even using just the steepest part, it doesn't look like there would be harmonics there much higher than 100-200 kHz. High impedance makes the waveform pretty squishy. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) |
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