Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

Try looking up "injection locking". Basically, you take a stable signal
and force it into the magnetron via a directional coupler or isolator.
The magnetron synchs with that signal. Multiple magnetrons might synch
to each other depending on the coupling between them. Maintaining proper
phase might still be an issue for the combiner method.

Bert wrote:

Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert





--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

Ok I will look into injection locking.

Thanks,
Bert

On Jan 15, 12:14*am, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote:
Try looking up "injection locking". Basically, you take a stable signal
and force it into the magnetron via a directional coupler or isolator.
The magnetron synchs with that signal. Multiple magnetrons might synch
to each other depending on the coupling between them. Maintaining proper
phase might still be an issue for the combiner method.

Bert wrote:
Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" *;-P

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

You will probably have to add "magnetron " to your search terms.

Bert wrote:

Ok I will look into injection locking.

Thanks,
Bert

On Jan 15, 12:14 am, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote:


Try looking up "injection locking". Basically, you take a stable signal
and force it into the magnetron via a directional coupler or isolator.
The magnetron synchs with that signal. Multiple magnetrons might synch
to each other depending on the coupling between them. Maintaining proper
phase might still be an issue for the combiner method.

Bert wrote:


Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.


I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise


Cheers,
Bert


--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P






--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

One microwave oven magnetron will get you pretty close to the legal
limit. They can be injection locked together, but that usually requires
a circulator that can handle the necessary power (big $). You also need
some way of adjusting the phase between the magnetrons so that the power
will add. The adjustment can be tricky as they will tend to interact
even with the circulators.

73, Erich N6FD


Bert wrote:
Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

Show how much are circulators?. For the phase can I add an adjustable
delay?

Again Thanks,
Bert


On Jan 15, 11:07*pm, Erich wrote:
One microwave oven magnetron will get you pretty close to the legal
limit. *They can be injection locked together, but that usually requires
a circulator that can handle the necessary power (big $). *You also need
some way of adjusting the phase between the magnetrons so that the power
will add. *The adjustment can be tricky as they will tend to interact
even with the circulators.

73, Erich N6FD



Bert wrote:
Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

Circulators are pretty pricy. You will need at least one to keep the
high power energy from each magnetron from getting back into the
injection source. I read somewhere that about 2% of the magnetron power
is required to injection lock. As far as phase, you will need a
mechanical or electrical means to adjust the phase of the legs of the
injection signals as well as a means to adjust the phase of the
magnetrons when combining them. Typically a peice of coax or waveguide
of some fraction of a wavelength as require IE; 1/4 wave = 90 degrees.
Coax has a velocity factor which makes it behave electrically longer
than it is physically.

I am guessing, but perhaps with proper coupling technique, you might get
the magnetrons to lock to each other coherently.

Bert wrote:

Show how much are circulators?. For the phase can I add an adjustable
delay?

Again Thanks,
Bert


On Jan 15, 11:07 pm, Erich wrote:


One microwave oven magnetron will get you pretty close to the legal
limit. They can be injection locked together, but that usually requires
a circulator that can handle the necessary power (big $). You also need
some way of adjusting the phase between the magnetrons so that the power
will add. The adjustment can be tricky as they will tend to interact
even with the circulators.

73, Erich N6FD



Bert wrote:


Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.


I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise


Cheers,
Bert- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -






--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

Hi Joe,

Thank you the info. Is it required to cross couple them, or can I use
one magnetron as a "master" that injects into 3 to 5 other "slave"
magnetrons? I will post the results of my effort. Again thanks.

Cheers,
Bert

On Jan 17, 12:24*am, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote:
Circulators are pretty pricy. You will need at least one to keep the
high power energy from each magnetron from getting back into the
injection source. I read somewhere that about 2% of the magnetron power
is required to injection lock. As far as phase, you will need a
mechanical or electrical means to adjust the phase of the legs of the
injection signals as well as a means to adjust the phase of the
magnetrons when combining them. Typically a peice of coax or waveguide
of some fraction of a wavelength as require IE; 1/4 wave = 90 degrees.
Coax has a velocity factor which makes it behave electrically longer
than it is physically.

I am guessing, but perhaps with proper coupling technique, you might get
the magnetrons to lock to each other coherently.





Bert wrote:
Show how much are circulators?. For the phase can I add an adjustable
delay?

Again Thanks,
Bert

On Jan 15, 11:07 pm, Erich wrote:

One microwave oven magnetron will get you pretty close to the legal
limit. *They can be injection locked together, but that usually requires
a circulator that can handle the necessary power (big $). *You also need
some way of adjusting the phase between the magnetrons so that the power
will add. *The adjustment can be tricky as they will tend to interact
even with the circulators.

73, Erich N6FD

Bert wrote:

Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" *;-P- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

Bert wrote:

Hi Joe,

Thank you the info. Is it required to cross couple them, or can I use
one magnetron as a "master" that injects into 3 to 5 other "slave"
magnetrons? I will post the results of my effort. Again thanks.

Cheers,
Bert

On Jan 17, 12:24 am, **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
wrote:


Circulators are pretty pricy. You will need at least one to keep the
high power energy from each magnetron from getting back into the
injection source. I read somewhere that about 2% of the magnetron power
is required to injection lock. As far as phase, you will need a
mechanical or electrical means to adjust the phase of the legs of the
injection signals as well as a means to adjust the phase of the
magnetrons when combining them. Typically a peice of coax or waveguide
of some fraction of a wavelength as require IE; 1/4 wave = 90 degrees.
Coax has a velocity factor which makes it behave electrically longer
than it is physically.

I am guessing, but perhaps with proper coupling technique, you might get
the magnetrons to lock to each other coherently.





Bert wrote:


Show how much are circulators?. For the phase can I add an adjustable
delay?


Again Thanks,
Bert


On Jan 15, 11:07 pm, Erich wrote:


One microwave oven magnetron will get you pretty close to the legal
limit. They can be injection locked together, but that usually requires
a circulator that can handle the necessary power (big $). You also need
some way of adjusting the phase between the magnetrons so that the power
will add. The adjustment can be tricky as they will tend to interact
even with the circulators.


73, Erich N6FD


Bert wrote:


Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.


I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise


Cheers,
Bert- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -





Its only going to be as stable as the master. There is also some
discussion about the Q of the cavity. If the Q is too high, the ability
to "pull" the frequency will be restricted. I am afraid you are playing
in the sandbox of experimentation. Best of luck and don't fry yourself!

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

Syncing Up Multiple Magnetrons
 

In article ,
says...

Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert



There isn't any hamband for the magnetrons you are likely to get
your hands on, so it would be illeagal for you to 'beam' anywhere.
Multiple mags don't like to 'lock up' very well in pulse duty and
you surely won't be running any microwave oven mags in cw mode.
How would you verify if your kluge monster was in fact locked
together? Got any ghz range spectrum analyzers handy? Most mags
designed to be used in parallel power production have a built
in injection probe with an SMA or BNC fitting right on the mag.
So you are going to be beaming, and receiving with what? A spark
gap? You don't need, and couldn't handle the power of multiple
magnetrons. You can blow up every solid state device in your workshop
just by tearing the front door off your microwave oven and jumping
out the interlocks. Do you realize the body of the magnetron is
the anode and you will probably electrocute yourself before I can
find a sound reason for anybody but a genuine rf engineer to try
putting two magnetrons in phase lock parallel operation? Far longer
would you live throwing 20 pound propane tanks into a fire and
see how far they 'beam'.