CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

I changed the header subject to better reflect the discussion.

"JB" wrote:

You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

That's probably true.

That's been motivating nearly everything they have done since the 70's.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.

now even the Extra Class is code free.

As is the free memorization EC exam. No real electronic knowledge
required to pass.

I still have a manual typewriter to...
I still have a VCR because...
I even use CW on VHF and...

Typewriters, VCRs and CW are all obsolete by todays
technical standards. Some still use them because like
you and I they like to. That doesn't make them less old
technology. (Think horse/buggy analogy)

OK WHICH DIGITAL do you use.

Head copy.

how are you going to make the contact that is gone in 60 seconds

I'm not. I prefer CW ragchewing. Different strokes...

Don't tell me it's obsolete if you don't know anything about it.

Got my Novice in 57. Been doing CW ever since. But only as a hobby since
it's obsolete and not good for much else...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

AJ Lake writes:
You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.


So, I'm a young whippersnapper (42 y/o ... got my Tech+ ticket in
1988): Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was, and with as little
slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU (or as one 1x2 in the
first club I was in said: Ruined the service).

--XE2/N1GAK

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"Lawrence Statton" wrote in message
...
AJ Lake writes:
You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.


So, I'm a young whippersnapper (42 y/o ... got my Tech+ ticket in
1988): Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was, and with as little
slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU (or as one 1x2 in the
first club I was in said: Ruined the service).

--XE2/N1GAK

As I remember it...
I am not sure what the ARRL had to do with events previous to 73 and some of
the chronology from memory.

The 11 meter ham band was taken away to make the Citizens Band in 58? It
didn't turn out anything like the FCC expected. Previously there were fewer
ham license classes and everyone was on the same page. Also privileges were
taken away from the highest class to make a higher ones. Ticked off a lot
of Hams to lose.

The Technician License split ham radio into two factions by offering a
license class that had little incentive to upgrade and actually made it much
more difficult to, by limiting the opportunities for on-the-air training.
People who took the Novice ticket were upgraded to General in less than 2
years or never got around to get on the air and let it lapse. Hams (in my
area anyway) were expected to build something as a right of passage.
Building a code practice oscillator would get you a pat on the back from
everyone and you were in with the simplest project there was. I built that
and the power supplies for my mil surplus rigs. Some guys built a whole
Novice station. Techs at that time were expected to retune or modify a rig
or some project as well but would go straight to CB like intercom operations
not conducive to learning the HF skills for upgrade. In my day we were
aware of a difference but we were all brother hams then. I had Elmers that
were Techs and beyond. Most all were technically inclined enough to have
built something. People were generally civilized and knew that we were all
on the same team. If there was irritation between individuals, and there
were oddballs, it was downplayed for the good of amateur radio, because it
was a small world and people were listening. And you would run into each
other again and again, so no sense carrying a grudge.

That was the reality of it, whatever your point of view of how it should
have been.

In the late 70's there was a push by ARRL to get CBers interested, and over
the counter 2 meter radios were first becoming available.

ARRL didn't seem to understand that CB was a different service with a
different mindset and many were already set in their ways. They seemed to
be willing to get people to hang outside of RS stores and lure CBers under
false pretenses about amateur radio in order to pump up the license roles
and subscriptions to QST. Wayne Green was one of the ticked off ones and
started 73 magazine to rag about the ARRL and QST. ARRL also convinced the
FCC (easily) to set up the volunteer examiner program. Novice exams were
already given by volunteer Extras. FCC wanted to lighten their work load
since Ham testing and licensing was taking up most of a day at the field
offices.

License renewals were then made easier and for longer. ARRL liked it
because the rolls didn't drop out so fast and FCC didn't have to bother as
often.

The volunteer examiner program gave seminars to get people licensed but
because of the accellerated pace, people got licensed before they got a
chance to learn the realities of getting on the air and keeping a station up
and meeting the people. Some people would find it not their cup of tea and
leave but their license was now good for 10 years pumping up the rolls.

The no-code Tech license 83? further divided amateurs and even further
sidetracked Techs from upgrading. Lead time for getting a ticket was
shortened from the 2 to 6 months or so to learn the code to as little as 6
weeks, then 2 weeks as the process refined. It was notable that in the
80s, there were many who learned the code anyway and upgraded but the whole
thing by and large tended to split Ham Radio into those who upgraded and
those who couldn't very well.and were often frustrated. Many would tell
themselves they just weren't interested and resented the others. Way too
sad. I finally came to grips with the idea that they should do away with
the Tech class license at all costs, even getting rid of code testing for
the General to do it, just so we could mend the split. I was stunned when
they dropped the code requirement for Extra though. I really haven't kept
track of all the current structure since I got my Extra in 93.

In any case, the "incentive" licensing structure was anything but incentive.
So much for good intentions. ARRL has done a lot of good things but some
major screwups too. Support them but keep an eye on them and keep them
straightened out.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Lawrence Statton wrote:

Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was,

Shamelessly copied from: http://ham-shack.com/history.html. Check here for
the history before and after the event.

"1967-The FCC announced the new Incentive Licensing rules: over the next 2
years, General & Conditional operators would lose 50% of the 75-15 meter
phone bands, the "First Class" idea was dropped, the Advanced Class was
reopened to new applicants, Extra & Advanced Class operators get exclusive
subbands on 80-15 and 6 meters, the Novice license term is doubled to two
years, but Novices lose their 2 meter phone privileges, the FCC restates the
"Technicians are experimenters, not communicators" policy, and states that
the next license step for Novices is the General, not Technician, class."

and with as little slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU

That SNAFU of course is a slant by those of us who lost privileges in the
new licensing system. I was a General at the time. I actually had to buy a
Bash book to get them back...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

JB wrote:

snip

The Technician License split ham radio into two factions by offering a
license class that had little incentive to upgrade and actually made it much
more difficult to, by limiting the opportunities for on-the-air training.
People who took the Novice ticket were upgraded to General in less than 2
years or never got around to get on the air and let it lapse. Hams (in my
area anyway) were expected to build something as a right of passage.
Building a code practice oscillator would get you a pat on the back from
everyone and you were in with the simplest project there was. I built that
and the power supplies for my mil surplus rigs. Some guys built a whole
Novice station. Techs at that time were expected to retune or modify a rig
or some project as well but would go straight to CB like intercom operations
not conducive to learning the HF skills for upgrade.

Hmmm, first time I've read such an opinion regarding original Techs; in my
experience, Techs concentrated on building, experimenting and exploiting
VHF, UHF and above and had less inherent interest in HF. Some were just
unable to muster higher CW wpm for other tickets.

In my day we were aware of a difference but we were all brother hams then.
I had Elmers that were Techs and beyond.

Perhaps you are referring to later model Techs; the term 'Elmer' didn't exist
during the day to which I refer.

Michael

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

On Sep 8, 7:51*pm, Lawrence Statton wrote:
AJ Lake writes:
You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.

So, I'm a young whippersnapper (42 y/o ... got my Tech+ ticket in
1988): *Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was, and with as little
slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU (or as one 1x2 in the
first club I was in said: *Ruined the service).

Look in the letters section of a 50's QST, there's rants and raves
from both sides on incentive licensing.

Look in the letters section of a 60's QST, there's rants and raves
from both sides on incentive licensing.

The controversy in the 70's was the Technician license, a ticket that
required no code, as a way to get some CB'ers to take notice. I myself
came to ham radio in the 70's but had no interest in anything having
to do with Technician privileges. I know many other hams who did come
in that way in the 70's, 80's, etc.

Tim N3QE

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"msg" wrote in message
...
JB wrote:

snip

The Technician License split ham radio into two factions by offering a
license class that had little incentive to upgrade and actually made it
much
more difficult to, by limiting the opportunities for on-the-air
training.
People who took the Novice ticket were upgraded to General in less than
2
years or never got around to get on the air and let it lapse. Hams (in
my
area anyway) were expected to build something as a right of passage.
Building a code practice oscillator would get you a pat on the back from
everyone and you were in with the simplest project there was. I built
that
and the power supplies for my mil surplus rigs. Some guys built a whole
Novice station. Techs at that time were expected to retune or modify a
rig
or some project as well but would go straight to CB like intercom
operations
not conducive to learning the HF skills for upgrade.

Hmmm, first time I've read such an opinion regarding original Techs; in my
experience, Techs concentrated on building, experimenting and exploiting
VHF, UHF and above and had less inherent interest in HF. Some were just
unable to muster higher CW wpm for other tickets.

In my day we were aware of a difference but we were all brother hams
then.
I had Elmers that were Techs and beyond.

Perhaps you are referring to later model Techs; the term 'Elmer' didn't
exist
during the day to which I refer.

Michael

Of course there were variations in your experience depending on the crowd
you fell in with. To this day, the club experience tends to be limiting for
those who want to explore in depth, the great variety of interests that ham
radio has to offer. There are in fact many, many specialties and
sub-interests within amateur radio. If you try to list what they are, you
keep adding to the list indefinitely. Clubs tend to promote the entry and
political interests and get preoccupied there. If people in a club are
ragging about lack of Elmers or Technological interest in ham radio, it is
because the club itself has become stagnant with a lack of imagination, like
the teenager who sits around watching TV and complaining about being bored.
Boring people actually bore themselves. In my experience, most hams don't
show up at the local ham club because they have other Ham Radio interests.

Your Experience (above, Techs vs. HF) is proof of what comes of
promoting a division within ham radio. Politics should have learned by now
that the 2 party system has become the same kind of disaster. The Electoral
system used to have several parties and candidates and the winner became
President and runner-up was Vice-President, regardless of political party.
Probably more aggravation for the cabinet, but more of a stabilizing
influence on our nation. Our current system has actually promoted a rift in
America that gets farther apart as we go our separate ways in order to avoid
drowning in the middle. Eventually this could lead to another Civil War but
I digress.

An Elmer was everyone who was willing to share what they had learned. The
term and the people were there long before I decided to be a ham, perhaps
pre-war QST. The first thing I learned was that with so many sub-interests,
the only way I could hope to experience it all was vicariously. By visiting
the garages and hamshacks to see what other people had done. Antenna
experimenters, transmission line specialists who conversed with Smith
Charts. Teletype experimenters who were cobbling home made digital
controllers to their model 28s, that would become the home computer. People
who did various mods and projects involving existing equipment, People who
built their own equipment. Even one poor kid in High School who built a
full QRP station onto his bicycle from transistor radio parts and other
junk. This guy had a bit of an inferiority complex, because when he would
show people the construction and circuit designs (often modular with junk
boards modified and cabled together in a re-used cabinet) they would become
very interested and of course the "why did you do it this way" question
would always set him off. Some would joke him over that. I had to remind
him often to put away his anguish and realize they were in fact impressed by
his accomplishments and what was happening was in fact a by product of their
curiosity and envy. Although I was an Advanced and He was a Novice, it
didn't change the fact that we were both Elmers in our own right. We become
Elmers to each other as long as we don't pout and cry over normal human
relations.

I realize that pouting and crying over normal human relations has become
some sort of fashionable thing lately. I don't think it is a good thing.
Maybe it is from people being told by their Psychiatrist (like Cops, depend
on repeat business) that everything will be OK if they let their emotions
take control, and that it is perfectly normal to throw tantrums or hump
people's leg in public. Makes good press though.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"AJ Lake" wrote in message
...
Lawrence Statton wrote:

Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was,

Shamelessly copied from: http://ham-shack.com/history.html. Check here for
the history before and after the event.

"1967-The FCC announced the new Incentive Licensing rules: over the next 2
years, General & Conditional operators would lose 50% of the 75-15 meter
phone bands, the "First Class" idea was dropped, the Advanced Class was
reopened to new applicants, Extra & Advanced Class operators get exclusive
subbands on 80-15 and 6 meters, the Novice license term is doubled to two
years, but Novices lose their 2 meter phone privileges, the FCC restates
the
"Technicians are experimenters, not communicators" policy, and states that
the next license step for Novices is the General, not Technician, class."

and with as little slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU

That SNAFU of course is a slant by those of us who lost privileges in the
new licensing system. I was a General at the time. I actually had to buy
a
Bash book to get them back...

So it was FCC after all that formed the opinion. Sounds like a conspiracy
theory to keep us preoccupied with infighting.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Bert Hyman wrote:
(AJ Lake) wrote in

Got my Novice in 57. Been doing CW ever since. But only as a hobby

You do realize that ham radio itself is only a hobby, don't you?

In the 50s some hams I knew not only used ham radio
as a hobby but actually got paid for working CW, either aboard
ship or at coastal commercial radio stations. I had the CW
(and technical) skills at the time to be considered for employment.

So as I said I've worked CW since 57 but only as a hobby...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

I changed the header subject to better reflect the discussion.

Unfortunately we lose the thread that way: I think here is where it
departed:
"raypsi" wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 2:54 pm, Michael Black wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008, raypsi wrote:
Hey Gary,

Rocks aren't cheap ...
I know the real reason crystals took a back seat, and it's not what anybody
thinks
happened.

73 OM

n8zu

now even the Extra Class is code free.

As is the free memorization EC exam. No real electronic knowledge
required to pass.

And no experience necessary.

Typewriters, VCRs and CW are all obsolete by todays
technical standards. Some still use them because like
you and I they like to. That doesn't make them less old
technology. (Think horse/buggy analogy)

So obsolete means there is no commercial or consumer application that
immediately comes to mind, or does it mean that it is fun to do???

So the word "obsolete" is a subjective word reflecting your own usage.
Could something be obsolete if it was old but was better suited to your
application? Or does that make your application obsolete? Is the
automobile obsolete because of air travel? Is rail transportation obsolete
because of trucks? Does obsolete most often refer to something you don't
want someone else to use? Is the word "obsolete" obsolete because too many
definitions have become attatched to it?

OK WHICH DIGITAL do you use.
Head copy.
how are you going to make the contact that is gone in 60 seconds
I'm not. I prefer CW ragchewing. Different strokes...

Bingo! Now what of the guy that has called CQ two or three times and goes
away?
Head copy is the only way to pounce on the contact before they QSY or
someone else picks them up.

It means YOUR BRAIN might not be obsolete after all!!

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, AJ Lake wrote:


I changed the header subject to better reflect the discussion.

If it's off-topic enough that you know to change the subject,
then take it elsewhere.

I should have posted last night before all the other carpetbaggers
came out of the woodwork, but foolishly hesitated.

You have no history here, yet you pounce the minute someone posts
about CW, someone who has been here a long time. And then a bunch
of others suddenly appear, even though they don't post about building
amateur radio equipment here.

There is rec.radio.amateur.policy and rec.radio.amateur.misc and
even rec.radio.amateur.moderated where you can have your debates
to your heart's content. And surely you and the other carpetbaggers
would fit in better there, since you don't have anything to say
about building radios.

This is not the first time you pouncers have landed here. The last
time I remember it happening, the one idiot even cross-posted his
reply to rec.radio.amateur.antennas, even though the topic fit
neither newsgroup. I didn't read the newsgroup for a month after
that, even though I've been reading and posting here for over a decade.

It's idiots like you that kill the newsgroups, seeing offtopic posts
as perfectly fine, while those who want to talk about what the newsgroup
is about slowly disappear.

Keep the trash out of here, you and the other carpetbaggers.

Michael VE2BVW

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Tim Shoppa wrote:

The controversy in the 70's was the Technician license, a ticket that
required no code,

Interestingly in the 50s the Technician (and Novice) was given
by mail. And any ham friend could give you the code test.
Anyone else could proctor your exam and certify that you
were honest. However I'm sure it won't surprise you to learn
that there were many Techs who never took a code
test and had open book exams.

I always wondered why if the Tech was an experimenters
license as the FCC claimed it was, why they required a code
test.

The Tech was a very popular license, especially in the
late 50s when we had the best sun spot peak on
record. I had a modest Globe Scout 680 with about
20W out on 6 meters to a 5 element Taco beam
up about 30' , AM of course. The Rx was a war surplus
BC455 (7$ brand new mail order) and an International
Crystal 6 meter converter. The Tx was crystal controlled
so you called CQ and then tuned the lower band for
an answer. The band was open stateside every day
and my state count on 6M was in the 40s before
I got my General and moved to 10M which was even
better. DX openings were often and my country count
was in the 50s. That was indeed a fun time...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Michael Black wrote:

If it's off-topic enough that you know to change the subject,
then take it elsewhere.

Ah, another net cop with no delete key.

You have no history here, yet you pounce the minute someone posts
about CW, someone who has been here a long time.

I've been in these groups since the early 90s. I used to identify
but had a bad experience with a net cop.

And then a bunch
of others suddenly appear, even though they don't post about building
amateur radio equipment here.

Off topic happens. Heck they're talking God stuff in the
antenna group. Why aren't you complaining there?
And who's it hurt anyway? It's not like this place is
flooded with posts every day.

There is rec.radio.amateur.policy

Right. The kooks have taken over rrap with their profanity and
other sick stuff. That was a fun group some years back

It's idiots like you that kill the newsgroups

No I think the name calling and net cops are the ones who drive
people away, so keep it up and you will get your wish. In the
meantime just be cool and the thread will die a natural
death, they always do...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"JB" wrote:

So the word "obsolete" is a subjective word reflecting your own usage.

Yes the word obsolete is very subjective. And it "obsolete" means different
things to different people. My posts here are my *opinion*. You have stated
that you have a different opinion. We have a discussion. That makes
it interesting and is why we are all here.

Head copy is the only way to pounce on the contact before they QSY or
someone else picks them up.

Yes for contest or DX operation. But for relaxing CW operation a
computer can do just fine. Some of my recent QSOs
have been with people who admittedly don't know CW and
are using a computer. I don't mind as we are both having
fun.

It means YOUR BRAIN might not be obsolete after all!!

My brain is becoming very obsolete in recent years,
very scary...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Michael Black wrote:

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, AJ Lake wrote:

I changed the header subject to better reflect the discussion.


If it's off-topic enough that you know to change the subject,
then take it elsewhere.

snip

And surely you and the other carpetbaggers
would fit in better there, since you don't have anything to say
about building radios.

Au contraire mon ami; most of the replies include descriptions of homebrew
efforts relating to license classes and FWIW, I recognize most of the
respondents as previous posters to this N.G. I for one have appreciated
this discussion.

Regards,

Michael

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"AJ Lake" wrote in message
...
Michael Black wrote:


[snip]

There is rec.radio.amateur.policy

Right. The kooks have taken over rrap with their profanity and
other sick stuff. That was a fun group some years back

It's idiots like you that kill the newsgroups

No I think the name calling and net cops are the ones who drive
people away, so keep it up and you will get your wish. In the
meantime just be cool and the thread will die a natural
death, they always do...

rec.radio.amateur.policy was destroyed almost single-handedly by one
individual. Although others made it somewhat of a sewer, he put it into the
coffin and drove the nails and buried it. I've deleted that newsgroup from
my list entirely as it is completely useless now.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Tim Shoppa wrote:
[snip]
The controversy in the 70's was the Technician license, a ticket that
required no code, as a way to get some CB'ers to take notice. I myself
came to ham radio in the 70's but had no interest in anything having
to do with Technician privileges. I know many other hams who did come
in that way in the 70's, 80's, etc.

Tim N3QE

The original Technician license required passing of a 5wpm receiving &
sending Morse test.

73,
Bryan WA7PRC

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Bryan wrote:
Tim Shoppa wrote:
[snip]
The controversy in the 70's was the Technician license, a ticket that
required no code, as a way to get some CB'ers to take notice. I myself
came to ham radio in the 70's but had no interest in anything having
to do with Technician privileges. I know many other hams who did come
in that way in the 70's, 80's, etc.

Tim N3QE

The original Technician license required passing of a 5wpm receiving &
sending Morse test.

73,
Bryan WA7PRC



I concur from experience in 1982 when I got my Tech license. I had to
take the 5WPM code test at the FCC office. We had the same HF
privileges as Novices and could operate on any frequency above 50.000
MHz. I can't recall, but I "THINK" the first code-free Tech licenses
did not have HF privileges. Now that there is no code requirement for
any class, I think Techs have some HF privileges again...a bit confusing ;)

Scott
N0EDV

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Scott wrote:

I think Techs have some HF privileges again...a bit confusing ;)

I was happy when they gave the Technician Class License HF CW privileges
because I thought that it would help the sagging numbers found on
the CW bands. Currently they have the same CW privileges as the General
Class on 80, 40, and 15M HF bands.

I hang mainly on 80 and 40 CW and average a couple of QSOs a day. To this
date I have yet to contact a Tech. (I check QRZ.com when making entries in
my computer log.) So at this point it doesn't seem to have increased CW
activity as much as I had hoped.

BTW using the internet makes QSOs even more interesting. QRZ.com often has
blurbs and photos of the guy you just talked to. Also using Google Maps you
can pinpoint his location, and often using Google Streets you can even see a
photo of his house. Amazing.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"AJ Lake" wrote in message
...
Scott wrote:

I think Techs have some HF privileges again...a bit confusing ;)

I was happy when they gave the Technician Class License HF CW privileges
because I thought that it would help the sagging numbers found on
the CW bands. Currently they have the same CW privileges as the General
Class on 80, 40, and 15M HF bands.

I hang mainly on 80 and 40 CW and average a couple of QSOs a day. To this
date I have yet to contact a Tech. (I check QRZ.com when making entries in
my computer log.) So at this point it doesn't seem to have increased CW
activity as much as I had hoped.

BTW using the internet makes QSOs even more interesting. QRZ.com often has
blurbs and photos of the guy you just talked to. Also using Google Maps
you
can pinpoint his location, and often using Google Streets you can even see
a
photo of his house. Amazing.

I hate Google Streets. It would seem to be an invasion of privacy for
someone to go around taking pictures. The only use is if you are trying to
buy or sell a house. Or plotting a crime. My PO box is on my license.
Perfectly legal since it gets sent out all over the World

I went from Novice to Advanced, having failed the 20wpm the first time. I
still loved to hang on 40 CW, 2 and 440 FM for years. Then 40 got taken
over by broadcasters. I'm a little bit of everywhere now. With 2 m SSB
becoming popular, I've found cross mode CW/SSB actually works, so more
people find it useful than let on. I had talked to some tech+ on 10 SSB/CW.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"Michael Black" wrote in message
ample.org...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, AJ Lake wrote:

Keep the trash out of here, you and the other carpetbaggers.

Michael VE2BVW

Frequency's in use OM

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"JB" wrote:

I hate Google Streets. It would seem to be an invasion of privacy for
someone to go around taking pictures.

Many people feel this way.

The only use is if you are trying to buy or sell a house.

As I said I use it to see where my contacts live. On occasion I even get to
see the tower and/or antennas. I used it scope out my old neighborhoods in
the Chicago area where I lived as a kid. Also recently I was recently able
to scope out a good parking lot on the beach at Pacific Beach CA (and
actually able to read to read the parking sign hours) prior to driving
there. So I find lots uses for it.

My PO box is on my license.

If somebody really wants to find you they can. If you give your call it
would be duck soup to find where you live, even using a PO box. But even
posting anonymously here on Usenet we can be found. The best advice is not
to make anyone mad enough to want devote the resources and time it requires
to do it.

I still loved to hang on 40 CW

Maybe we have QSOed in the past. My computer log goes back to 1990.
Unfortunately my paper logs are long gone. Give me your call and I'll
check..... ;-)

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

If somebody really wants to find you they can. If you give your call it...

Yes this is true, but you don't have to make it easy for them. They will go
after the easy meat first.

The best bet is not to leave anything the robots can parse and dump into a
searchable database. Then nut cases and spam machines with lots of time on
their hands will use someone else. I learned my lesson 10 years ago from
using my callsign for my screen name and winding up with hundreds of people
from all over the world sending me hate mail because some veeagra and sealis
salesmen were spooffing my address.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

On Sep 11, 1:58*pm, "JB" wrote:
If somebody really wants to find you they can. If you give your call it....

Yes this is true, but you don't have to make it easy for them. *They will go
after the easy meat first.

The best bet is not to leave anything the robots can parse and dump into a
searchable database. *Then nut cases and spam machines with lots of time on
their hands will use someone else. *I learned my lesson 10 years ago from
using my callsign for my screen name and winding up with hundreds of people
from all over the world sending me hate mail because some veeagra and sealis
salesmen were spooffing my address.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

oops, the above was just a test...

Anyway, the FAA and the ARRL both became concerned with stagnation in
the late 50's in the Amateur Service and as a result began to thrash
about for ways to keep the service growing... Incentive licensing,
and all the other changes we see moaned about on this topic were the
result of an actual good-intentions series of changes... Those who
believe in conspiracy will never understand that, but that is their
loss.. The one thing we won't see is the status quo... Change is a
constant, even in the stodgy ranks of hams... So no code it is - for
now - and even after more than a half century on the bands I do not
proclaim to foresee the future, other than be able to announce with
perfect certainty, the regs will change... If you do not like the
regs now, just wait - you won't...

Now having said that, I am currently working on a series of homebrew
pulse desulfators for batteries.. I have one that has been blown up a
couple of times, but for the moment is upgraded and again working on
knocking the sulfate off the plates of a tractor battery... It has
13.2 volt float with 51 volt pulses at a frequency of ~1kc and ~80ms
pulse width... I have delivered and in hand (just yesterday) roughly
a $100 worth of parts to build another ten units... I have the design
for generation II of these that will feature boost and burp charging
with ramping of the pulse frequencies...

Next up for gen III will be a 40 volt charger that will be pulse
width and frequency agile that will both charge and desulphate
simultaneously with a far smaller parts count - the square wave
charging pulses doing both actions simultaneously... Today I am
beginning the first tests of the devices that will be able to switch
30+ amps at 40 volts...

denny - k8do

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

Denny wrote:

Incentive licensing,
and all the other changes we see moaned about on this topic...

My moaning was because of the *unfairness* of the incentive licensing
frequency changes. I passed an examination for General and I expected to be
able to use those General frequencies. Then they took away half the General
frequencies. Even these many years later (even after having regained those
lost frequencies) I think it was an unfair change.

Some may moan that the FCC now gives advanced licenses with no code test and
modern hams don't have to work as hard for the license as hams in years
past. Which is true. And some may moan that people can now get an advanced
ham license by memorization without knowing the advanced electronics
pretended in the testing. Which is true. But not me because it takes nothing
away from privileges already earned.

I have an idea (analogy). How about we institute an Extra Plus license.
Forget the code test because it's obsolete. But to make sure that the
applicant is really qualified he must pass a *real* electronics/digital
test, one that can't be passed by memorization. No answer sheets. At the FCC
office like in the old days.

And....to make the license desirable we take away half of the current Extra
privileges and give them to the new Extra Plus.

Whoa, talk about moaning...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

AJ Lake wrote:
Denny wrote:

Incentive licensing,
and all the other changes we see moaned about on this topic...

My moaning was because of the *unfairness* of the incentive licensing
frequency changes. I passed an examination for General and I expected to be
able to use those General frequencies. Then they took away half the General
frequencies. Even these many years later (even after having regained those
lost frequencies) I think it was an unfair change.

Some may moan that the FCC now gives advanced licenses with no code test and
modern hams don't have to work as hard for the license as hams in years
past. Which is true. And some may moan that people can now get an advanced
ham license by memorization without knowing the advanced electronics
pretended in the testing. Which is true. But not me because it takes nothing
away from privileges already earned.

I have an idea (analogy). How about we institute an Extra Plus license.
Forget the code test because it's obsolete. But to make sure that the
applicant is really qualified he must pass a *real* electronics/digital
test, one that can't be passed by memorization. No answer sheets. At the FCC
office like in the old days.

And....to make the license desirable we take away half of the current Extra
privileges and give them to the new Extra Plus.

Whoa, talk about moaning...
Well, the current extra class license only adds a small slice of extra
phone and cw bandwidth. I lived without the extra class phone segments
for years. Finally got my extra when the cw requirement went away.

The LACK of incentive plus the 20wpm code was the reason so few upgraded
to the extra class, the advanced class license was good enough.
Actually the extra cw segments were the most prized, so the cw
requirement made sense.

As far as techs are concerned... Well I knew quite a few techs who were
very much into home brew radios. Some of the best two meter (and up)
gear I ever saw was home brewed by those guys.
(state of the art in (1970's) mosfet front rx front ends).

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

ken scharf wrote:

The LACK of incentive plus the 20wpm code was the reason so few upgraded
to the extra class,

Correct. Before Incentive Licensing there was not much incentive to go above
General since there were no additional privileges. Those who did upgrade to
Extra did it for the accomplishment.

And since it was a real (no answers supplied) exam before an official FCC
examiner it did show accomplishment. Hams of the day often listed it on
employment applications alongside their commercial licenses.

Actually the extra cw segments were the most prized,

Only if you are a CW DXer. And even before the change, by gentlemans
agreement the bottom of the CW band was left for DXers and casual CW
operation was higher, pretty much like now.

so the cw requirement made sense

IMO the only justification for the code test (at that time) was for possible
emergency use. As an example a ship in distress, since many ships were still
using CW at the time. But other than that making a ham take a special code
test made about as much sense as making him take a special soldering test.
That was finally recognized recently...

As far as techs are concerned... Well I knew quite a few techs who were
very much into home brew radios.

As it should be. The Tech license was supposed to be for technical use, not
just another operators license. But of course that was a laugh. Most Techs
bought their equipment and set up shop on the nearest local repeater...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

AJ Lake wrote:

ken scharf wrote:

snip
As far as techs are concerned... Well I knew quite a few techs who were
very much into home brew radios.


As it should be. The Tech license was supposed to be for technical use, not
just another operators license. But of course that was a laugh. Most Techs
bought their equipment and set up shop on the nearest local repeater...

Experimenter Techs were the norm IMHO before the debacle of license
class changes in the late '70s, and anything related to repeaters before
then involved significant accomplishment ;) Please don't lump 'new' Techs
with 'original' Techs.

BTW, if anyone knows, I'd appreciate knowing what the grace period after
expiration was in 1975 (I was told by a field-office rep that my expired
Advanced couldn't be renewed and later I was told that I was probably
misinformed and was within a grace period, but I could never confirm that
fact).

Michael

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

msg wrote:

Experimenter Techs were the norm IMHO before the debacle of license
class changes

I may have met one or two Tech experimenters but the only reason they were
Tech experimenters and not General or Extra experimenters was they couldn't
get their code speed up. Which is why I always thought that the concept of
a Tech being an experimenter type license kind of silly.

Heck there is an electronics whiz named Cecil with a web site all about neat
antenna ideas of his. He surely fits the experimenter mold. For eons on
these newsgroups he said he wouldn't have an Extra if they gave it to him.
Absolutely no need said he. But when the code went away guess what. Yup
he's an Extra. So IMO the license class has little to do with being an
experimenter...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

I may have met one or two Tech experimenters but the only reason they were
Tech experimenters and not General or Extra experimenters was they
couldn't
get their code speed up. Which is why I always thought that the concept of
a Tech being an experimenter type license kind of silly.

Heck there is an electronics whiz named Cecil with a web site all about
neat
antenna ideas of his. He surely fits the experimenter mold. For eons on
these newsgroups he said he wouldn't have an Extra if they gave it to him.
Absolutely no need said he. But when the code went away guess what. Yup
he's an Extra. So IMO the license class has little to do with being an
experimenter...

This whole line is silly because there are all kinds of experimenters in all
license classes (and unlicensed) so how does the fact that I can experiment
on any frequency make any difference.

BTW repeaters are old hat. Hams were doing remote bases and repeaters in
the 50's. The biggest changes have been all the available off-the-shelf
equipment since the 70's that spawned the appliance operators that need help
to put up a mag mount antenna.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

BTW, if anyone knows, I'd appreciate knowing what the grace period after
expiration was in 1975 (I was told by a field-office rep that my expired
Advanced couldn't be renewed and later I was told that I was probably
misinformed and was within a grace period, but I could never confirm that
fact).

Michael

I thought it was 2 years but it never affected me so I'm not positive. The
upside is you can probably go get a new one with a weeks worth of brush-up.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

msg wrote:
AJ Lake wrote:

ken scharf wrote:

snip
As far as techs are concerned... Well I knew quite a few techs who were
very much into home brew radios.


As it should be. The Tech license was supposed to be for technical use,
not
just another operators license. But of course that was a laugh. Most
Techs
bought their equipment and set up shop on the nearest local repeater...

Experimenter Techs were the norm IMHO before the debacle of license
class changes in the late '70s, and anything related to repeaters before
then involved significant accomplishment ;) Please don't lump 'new' Techs
with 'original' Techs.

BTW, if anyone knows, I'd appreciate knowing what the grace period after
expiration was in 1975 (I was told by a field-office rep that my expired
Advanced couldn't be renewed and later I was told that I was probably
misinformed and was within a grace period, but I could never confirm that
fact).

Michael

Hi Michael,

Yep -- there wasn't a lot of commercial off-the-shelf equipment available
(that didn't require any modification) until the mid-late 70s. It was
common for a VHFer to modify a Motorola/GE/etc unit to operate on the ham
bands.

IIRC, the grace period used to be 1 year but nowadays, it appears to be 2
years w/o having to retake a test:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...enew_amateu r

vy 73 es cul,
Bryan WA7PRC

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"Bryan" wrote:

there wasn't a lot of commercial off-the-shelf equipment available
(that didn't require any modification) until the mid-late 70s. It was
common for a VHFer to modify a Motorola/GE/etc unit to operate on the ham
bands.

There was modification of commercial/war surplus gear done by all classes of
hams, for all the ham bands, over much of ham history. The Technician (and
VHFer) had no lock on modification.

But more important for this discussion, the Technician Class License was
defined and supposed to be an 'experimenter' license not a 'modification'
license.

And of course most Techs, however they got their gear working, (modification
or appliance op), used it as a communicator anyway...

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"JB" wrote:

there are all kinds of experimenters in all license classes

The Technician (only) was defined as an experimenters license (in the 50s).

This whole line is silly

That's what I said. All the Techs I knew then were mostly communicators.

BTW repeaters are old hat. Hams were doing...repeaters in the 50's.

Unattended repeaters were illegal in the 50s.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"AJ Lake" wrote in message
...
"JB" wrote:

there are all kinds of experimenters in all license classes

The Technician (only) was defined as an experimenters license (in the
50s).

This whole line is silly

That's what I said. All the Techs I knew then were mostly communicators.

BTW repeaters are old hat. Hams were doing...repeaters in the 50's.

Unattended repeaters were illegal in the 50s.

A remote base is different from an unattended repeater.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"JB" wrote:

A remote base is different from an unattended repeater.

An unattended anything in the 50s was illegal.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

"AJ Lake" wrote in message
...
"JB" wrote:

A remote base is different from an unattended repeater.

An unattended anything in the 50s was illegal.

It isn't unattended if it has a control point.

All I know is that there was one in the late 50's. I'm not a lawyer or an
FCC spokesman but I suspect the statute of limitations is well past.

CW is a hobby (off topic BWTH)
 

On Sep 8, 7:51*pm, Lawrence Statton wrote:
AJ Lake writes:
You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.

So, I'm a young whippersnapper (42 y/o ... got my Tech+ ticket in
1988): *Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was, and with as little
slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU (or as one 1x2 in the
first club I was in said: *Ruined the service).

--XE2/N1GAK

Here's a history in three parts. It was written in 1999 and so doesn't
cover the 2000 restructuring, but you'll find a lot of background in
there.

Part 1:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...n&dmode=source

or:

http://tinyurl.com/6o8bzf


Part 2:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...n&dmode=source

or:

http://tinyurl.com/6lupxx


Part 3:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...n&dmode=source

or:

http://tinyurl.com/6dosbw

---

A couple of points:

1) "Incentive licensing" came into being in the 1960s
2) It wasn't a new thing, but rather a return to the way things used
to be before 1953. Except it was a lot more complicated.
3) ARRL had a big role but wasn't the only one involved. There were at
least 10 other proposals given RM numbers by FCC, over 6000 comments
at a time before ECFS and the internet, and the result went into
effect in 1968.
4) The Tech had a code test until 1991.
5) The ARRL did not want the VE system. FCC pushed it on us to save
money.

73 de Jim, N2EY