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Then and now
Nowadays, to manufacture an HF RX, with all the concomitant
high density ICs that are around, the biggest design chore is to cut out the opening for the LCD display on the front panel. But, looking in detail at this EA12, almost every facet of it has involved intricate design and manufacture if only the mechanical components are considered, and all this from the days of pencils and drawing boards, long before the era of computer aiding. Firstly, there is the aliminium casting for the front panel, and secondly is the rotary arm coupling to the tuning condenser to linearise the frequency coverage, amongst many other mechanical achievements. Clearly the Stratton people knew their onions when it came to designing and producing radios. My gast has never been so flabbered; no wonder it had taken me so long as a tyro machinist to not (yet) succeed in my own efforts! |
Then and now
"gareth" wrote in news:lt1tsc$8ie$1@dont-
email.me: Firstly, there is the aliminium casting for the front panel, and secondly is the rotary arm coupling to the tuning condenser to linearise the frequency coverage, amongst many other mechanical achievements. Clearly the Stratton people knew their onions when it came to designing and producing radios. I limit my CAD for mechanics to an early version of SketchUp, the main advantage beign an ability to make clean lines, erase faults as if they'd never been, try new ideas and revert painlessly, and to turn the model in three dimensions. In the past, the fact that makers likely had to do design and also handle real parts they made, meant the brain fed back detail that kept their vision clear. Even so it is admirable. On the other hand (not radio related, exactly), I have built from expired patent and base principle (I find other's code utterly impenetrable so have not plundered any), an entire polyphonic, multitimbral FM (actually, phase mod) synthesiser, with a few tricks that not even Yamaha managed. In short, while it is amazing what people in the past acheived, it is also true that in 1980, to do what I can do alone, it took a university professors (John Chowning) and a large multinational company (Yamaha), and 10 years of research and development to do! It's still taking me a few years, but it is at least possible, and not so long ago it was beyond any practical dreaming. There is real art in old radio parts though, especially the tuning capacitors, and those old hybrid canned parts with chokes and caps and such, especially in the context of a small forest of valves.... The intricacies of my PhaseMod synth, while fun and no ends of cool, are hard to sell to a public who woudl see even LESS of that wonder than they do when confronted with an actual hardware dedicated IC. :) But such is the price we pay for the power.... |
Then and now
"Chronos" wrote in message
... On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:38:57 +0100 "gareth" wrote: Nowadays, to manufacture an HF RX, with all the concomitant high density ICs that are around, the biggest design chore is to cut out the opening for the LCD display on the front panel. I have to say that anyone who can make a decent looking front panel has my admiration. My attempts at chassis bashing have always looked like something salvaged from a rather nasty car accident. The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) Always used to be a problem until I clamped down the workpiece in a drill press and stopped trying to do everything freehand. Also, the old adage of measure twice and cut but once helps! Being impatient myself, I did make a "PCB" by grinding out the lands using a Dremel-equivalent miniature grinding wheel, but where I transgressed with that was to grind each land as I needed it, after soldering in the previous component, with the result that the board slowly curved. |
Then and now
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014, Chronos wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:38:57 +0100 "gareth" wrote: Nowadays, to manufacture an HF RX, with all the concomitant high density ICs that are around, the biggest design chore is to cut out the opening for the LCD display on the front panel. I have to say that anyone who can make a decent looking front panel has my admiration. My attempts at chassis bashing have always looked like something salvaged from a rather nasty car accident. The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) That's why they created bezels, to cover up what lies behind. Michael |
Then and now
Chronos wrote in
: The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) As I found too, once. Try Proxxon instead. Works for me... |
Then and now
Chronos wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:38:57 +0100 "gareth" wrote: Nowadays, to manufacture an HF RX, with all the concomitant high density ICs that are around, the biggest design chore is to cut out the opening for the LCD display on the front panel. I have to say that anyone who can make a decent looking front panel has my admiration. My attempts at chassis bashing have always looked like something salvaged from a rather nasty car accident. The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) http://www.frontpanelexpress.com Now, they don't do any fancy 3-D work, so if you are of a mind to have heatsinks in the panel or fancy bezels around your slide rule display along with the mounts for the pulleys built into the front panel, you will be out of luck. But if you don't mind machining the pulley mounts separately and having a second metal plate with the scale bolted on standoffs to get your frequency display for the tuning, it can work out nicely. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Then and now
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 16:26:12 +0100, Chronos wrote:
The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) But does look nice on the bench :-) -- M0WYM Sales @ radiowymsey http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sales-At-Radio-Wymsey/ |
Then and now
Chronos wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:38:57 +0100 "gareth" wrote: Nowadays, to manufacture an HF RX, with all the concomitant high density ICs that are around, the biggest design chore is to cut out the opening for the LCD display on the front panel. I have to say that anyone who can make a decent looking front panel has my admiration. My attempts at chassis bashing have always looked like something salvaged from a rather nasty car accident. The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) The tradition here, used to be nibbling tool + Hammond Box. http://www.mpja.com/images/31197-large.jpg http://www.ebay.com/itm/Deluxe-Nibbl...-/160459856656 http://angela.com/hammondaluminum17x...is1444-30.aspx http://angela.com/images/products/de...Chassis.15.jpg You drill a hole big enough to take the cutting head of the nibbler. Then, like a jig saw, the nibbler cuts an arbitrary pattern in the aluminum sheet. You can do square or round holes. The square holes will be high quality (requires a steady hand, don't rush it). The round holes need touch up with a round file (depending on your level of patience, and availability of a bezel to cover the mess). The advert lists a few different materials it works in, but let's be honest - it's only for aluminum, and only of a limited thickness. If you have to fight with the tool, you won't get nice looking results. In this picture, you can see the nibbling tool has just cut an "L" on its way to finishing a big square. While the person here drilled four pilot holes for the nibbler (to do the square), only one is really needed. You can do the entire square, racetrack style. You could even drill a pilot in the middle of the square, and "drive" to the edges to cut the square. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...3/IMG_1326.jpg http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes...n7-preamp.html That project cheated by using other tools to do the round holes. The round holes are too high quality for the nibbler. But lacking such tools, I wouldn't mind faking the round holes with the nibbler. I could never afford a whole kit of tool n' die hole cutters (the kind you work by compression with a wrench). One of the tools in this promotional picture (mid-left), is a proper hole cutter. http://angela.com/images/products/de...Chassis.15.jpg Paul |
Then and now
On 20/08/14 19:04, Paul wrote:
Chronos wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:38:57 +0100 "gareth" wrote: Nowadays, to manufacture an HF RX, with all the concomitant high density ICs that are around, the biggest design chore is to cut out the opening for the LCD display on the front panel. I have to say that anyone who can make a decent looking front panel has my admiration. My attempts at chassis bashing have always looked like something salvaged from a rather nasty car accident. The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) The tradition here, used to be nibbling tool + Hammond Box. http://www.mpja.com/images/31197-large.jpg http://www.ebay.com/itm/Deluxe-Nibbl...-/160459856656 http://angela.com/hammondaluminum17x...is1444-30.aspx http://angela.com/images/products/de...Chassis.15.jpg You drill a hole big enough to take the cutting head of the nibbler. Then, like a jig saw, the nibbler cuts an arbitrary pattern in the aluminum sheet. You can do square or round holes. The square holes will be high quality (requires a steady hand, don't rush it). The round holes need touch up with a round file (depending on your level of patience, and availability of a bezel to cover the mess). The advert lists a few different materials it works in, but let's be honest - it's only for aluminum, and only of a limited thickness. If you have to fight with the tool, you won't get nice looking results. In this picture, you can see the nibbling tool has just cut an "L" on its way to finishing a big square. While the person here drilled four pilot holes for the nibbler (to do the square), only one is really needed. You can do the entire square, racetrack style. You could even drill a pilot in the middle of the square, and "drive" to the edges to cut the square. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...3/IMG_1326.jpg http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes...n7-preamp.html That project cheated by using other tools to do the round holes. The round holes are too high quality for the nibbler. But lacking such tools, I wouldn't mind faking the round holes with the nibbler. I could never afford a whole kit of tool n' die hole cutters (the kind you work by compression with a wrench). One of the tools in this promotional picture (mid-left), is a proper hole cutter. http://angela.com/images/products/de...Chassis.15.jpg Paul Nibbling tools are still available from Radio Shack (in USA) for US$9.99 Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Then and now
highlandham wrote:
Nibbling tools are still available from Radio Shack (in USA) for US$9.99 Don't do it! Spend a little more and get a good one from MSC or somebody. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Then and now
On 8/20/2014 1:45 PM, Wymsey wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 16:26:12 +0100, Chronos wrote: The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) But does look nice on the bench :-) In one of the Smoke and Solder segments of Ham Nation, George Thomas made a jig for his Dremel so it works as a cross between a table saw and a radial saw. Allows him to cut nice straight Mitered cuts in PC board. Alas have no clue as to which episode it was http://twit.tv/hn -- Home, is where I park it. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Then and now
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014, Scott Dorsey wrote:
highlandham wrote: Nibbling tools are still available from Radio Shack (in USA) for US$9.99 Don't do it! Spend a little more and get a good one from MSC or somebody. --scott My nibbler is from Radio Shack, about 30 years old, maybe 35. I couldn't tell any real difference from an Adel nibbler, which I had borrowed and used before I got my own. Michael |
Then and now
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014, John Davis wrote:
On 8/20/2014 1:45 PM, Wymsey wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 16:26:12 +0100, Chronos wrote: The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) But does look nice on the bench :-) In one of the Smoke and Solder segments of Ham Nation, George Thomas made a jig for his Dremel so it works as a cross between a table saw and a radial saw. Allows him to cut nice straight Mitered cuts in PC board. Alas have no clue as to which episode it was http://twit.tv/hn Are you talking about using a cut-off wheel? I think the real problem with those is that the wheel is too small, so unless you are cutting off edges, the rest of the Dremel/rotary tool gets in the way. I think some of the newer models allow for a closer use. I thought of getting a Dremel tool for about 20 years, they looked so neat, but I couldn't justify the cost. I had no concrete need for it. Then suddenly I did buy one (a Sear's one, which I think was a rebadged Dremel) when it was on sale, and once I had it, I found a use for it. Those cut-off wheels are great, go through the jar of bolts to find the right diameter, and if it's too long, just cut off the extra, nice and quick. Michael |
Then and now
On 20/08/2014 16:26, Chronos wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:38:57 +0100 "gareth" wrote: Nowadays, to manufacture an HF RX, with all the concomitant high density ICs that are around, the biggest design chore is to cut out the opening for the LCD display on the front panel. I have to say that anyone who can make a decent looking front panel has my admiration. My attempts at chassis bashing have always looked like something salvaged from a rather nasty car accident. The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) Someone once said to me, that precision engineering was the easiest thing in the world - far easier than having to 'adjust' holes to fit things and used a lot less material! I freely admit that my earlier work was not something to be proud of. Les. |
Then and now
"Lordgnome" wrote in message
... Someone once said to me, that precision engineering was the easiest thing in the world - far easier than having to 'adjust' holes to fit things and used a lot less material! I freely admit that my earlier work was not something to be proud of. Somewhere on the Net is a poster of silly screws to handle such problems. along the lines of a screw with a bit shifted sideways! Anyone got the URL? |
Then and now
Lordgnome wrote in :
Someone once said to me, that precision engineering was the easiest thing in the world - far easier than having to 'adjust' holes to fit things and used a lot less material! They were right. Measure thrice, cut once... I'm about to spend 300 quid on a small pillar drill, something I avoided doing for years, but I am tired of seeing the good results of hand work and most of my tools beignj ruined by the use of one really bad one. I know what peopole say about bad workmen and tools, but there are bad tools too. :) Pistol-grip drills are the worst... Never rely on a pilot hole for centring with those, far too many ways chaotic oscillations can get in to screw things up royally.. I mean, a 2mm hole in acetal was fine for a subsequent widening to 3.7 for tapping with a fluteless tap, but try the same methods, no matter how carefully the speed ajuster is used, and a 5mm bit rips into it with a pattern that resembles a tornado! Can't beat precision and secure methods. The expense increase is always lower than the avoided loss. |
Then and now
Michael Black wrote in
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1408202237200.14425@darkstar. example.org: I thought of getting a Dremel tool for about 20 years, they looked so neat, but I couldn't justify the cost. I had no concrete need for it. The small high speed ones? They're cheap enough, but you're right not to. I had two, they vibrate hugely, and at those frequencies this is dangerous to eveything, our biology, the tool, the work, nothing escapes it safely. I later got a Proxxon IBS/E drill which even at top speed runs clean and smooth like Rolls Royce aircraft engines in comparison with the Dremel which was like a screaming two-stroke in comparison!! Add the small KT-70 two-axis milling table to their cheapest drill stand, and it makes a tool that can reliably use the same 0.7mm cabide PCB bit to drill FR4 fibreglass board full of as many holes as you have the patience to drill. A Dremel could never do that, it would likely break on first contact between drill and work. One nice thing about the setup I described is it will accurately place fine holes around the perimiter for small connector holes with any shape wanted, with minimal filing needed to clean up. The precision is so good that knocking the waste metal out of the hole before filing was very easy too. Print out a panel design on paper with a cheap Laserjet printer, then stick it on the panel, line it up on the table, and for a one-off design it can get results you could sell in a high end retail shop. |
Then and now
On 21/08/14 09:20, gareth wrote:
"Lordgnome" wrote in message ... Someone once said to me, that precision engineering was the easiest thing in the world - far easier than having to 'adjust' holes to fit things and used a lot less material! I freely admit that my earlier work was not something to be proud of. Somewhere on the Net is a poster of silly screws to handle such problems. along the lines of a screw with a bit shifted sideways! Anyone got the URL? ======================== These screw type punchers were/are available from Radio Spares (RS). I have a few sizes up to 30 mm diameter. Frank , GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Then and now
highlandham wrote in news:lt5mcm$7ud$1@dont-
email.me: Somewhere on the Net is a poster of silly screws to handle such problems. along the lines of a screw with a bit shifted sideways! Anyone got the URL? ======================== These screw type punchers were/are available from Radio Spares (RS). I have a few sizes up to 30 mm diameter. I think he had something far sillier in mind. :) Pythonesque, even. But I know the puches you mean, I have a couple for 20mm and 16mm, I considered one for 25 pin D-sub but in the end I never wanted to repeat enough to justify anything other than finely dotted drill-lines followed by knocking out the middle bit and light filing to clean up. Those hole puches don't always work well, especially on thicker panels, or panels that already have a tough enamel type coating. They're also not cheap, I just kept some for hole sizes I did need to use a lot. |
Then and now
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
... They tend to be fine for thin steal (eg car panels if you are fitting an antenna) or the softer aluminium alloys but can jam on the harder alloys, a little paraffin usually helps (assuming proper cutting fluid for aluminium isn't to hand). Paraffin _IS_ the recommended cutting fluid for aluminium |
Then and now
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Then and now
On 8/20/2014 10:40 PM, Michael Black wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014, John Davis wrote: On 8/20/2014 1:45 PM, Wymsey wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 16:26:12 +0100, Chronos wrote: The Dremel doesn't help - it just makes making a mess faster ;-) But does look nice on the bench :-) In one of the Smoke and Solder segments of Ham Nation, George Thomas made a jig for his Dremel so it works as a cross between a table saw and a radial saw. Allows him to cut nice straight Mitered cuts in PC board. Alas have no clue as to which episode it was http://twit.tv/hn Are you talking about using a cut-off wheel? I think the real problem with those is that the wheel is too small, so unless you are cutting off edges, the rest of the Dremel/rotary tool gets in the way. I think some of the newer models allow for a closer use. I thought of getting a Dremel tool for about 20 years, they looked so neat, but I couldn't justify the cost. I had no concrete need for it. Then suddenly I did buy one (a Sear's one, which I think was a rebadged Dremel) when it was on sale, and once I had it, I found a use for it. Those cut-off wheels are great, go through the jar of bolts to find the right diameter, and if it's too long, just cut off the extra, nice and quick. Michael Yes he was using a cut off wheel.. In my case I had a job where I was using a Skill hand grinder (Their answer to the Dremel) and it had a problem.. So I got my own Dremel, a very low end of the line model which lasted me like 20+ years before It started to smoke (Well it was old enough) and I had to replace it,, I now use a Crafstman, Suspect it is made by Dremel, a bit higher up the model chain.. Last used it a couple hours ago. I also have a ROBI somewhere here in the RV. The trick to proper drilling is to use a drill press and the proper material holder, (They make one for Dremel) that way you position the drill bit when it is NOT turning, then the jig holds it in position. Alas... I do not have the drill press I DO have the router adapter -- Home, is where I park it. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Then and now
Brian Reay wrote in news:1732547063430430770.633650no.sp-
: Well, as you probably know, real precision holes (eg in watches) are pilot drilled and reamed, rather than drilled to size. The Stanley blade is not, however, part of the procedure. ;-) Indeed. There are reamers, and there are reamers. Mine is NOT a precision instrument, but you knwo what they say: Don't fear the Reamer. Awl or nothing, says I. :) |
Then and now
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Then and now
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014, Brian Reay wrote:
Lostgallifreyan wrote: Brian Reay wrote in news:558999594430351400.971108no.sp- : They tend to be fine for thin steal (eg car panels if you are fitting an antenna) Good point. I don't drive or own any large boatanchors so I'm not used to thinking of non-portable or unsupported surfaces. It may even be easier to improvise with a slightly wrong hole punch (or aim small and file outwards) and some large washers than to attempt the way I usually do things. For small round holes of unspecified size I have never beaten an M3 pilot hole followed by a tapered reamer, deburring the result with a Stanley blade. That is VERY cheap, I started out that way and it was a couple of years before I needed anything better. Well, as you probably know, real precision holes (eg in watches) are pilot drilled and reamed, rather than drilled to size. The Stanley blade is not, however, part of the procedure. ;-) A fine broach would be used I would think. I've repaired a number of pocket watches and clocks but always by hunting down new parts if needed, or getting them made. Sadly, my dexterity isn't up to it these days, although it has been improving recently- much to my surprise- plus I've learned to use my left hand more. I may rebuild my modest collection of pocket watches, stolen some years back. They were all ones I had restored, rather than simply bought working. It is surprise that, even for quite old movements, you can still locate new, old stock, parts. I recall a trek to a dusting shop in Notting Hill for a part for a 1920s gold hunter. The shop owner looked at the details and the broken part, thought for about 2 mins, turn to an array of 100s of little draws, and produced one. The price? £1. The watch was worth many times that. I return to the shop many times, it was always the same. He always had a queue of others with similar wants. He fail once, a balance staff for an 1883 cylinder escapement. I had that made, £5, inc. fitting to the balance. He did have a suitable main spring and crystal glass. I expect both watches ended up being sold for scrap gold and silver when the toe rags fenced them. The culprits were caught but the items were not recovered. Have you read this book "Longitude", I can't remember the author? (It's rom about a decade ago.) It's a small book, more like an long essay, about why a chronometer was needed for travel, and the prize and ultimate entries to create a working chronometer that could be portable. Things I'd never thought of. And surely the basis for common watches that came later. All my life I've had watches, starting with mechanical, and even those tended to keep pretty good time, likely fallout from that chronometer work. And of course in recent years, I have a watch that syncs up from the time signal, so it is very much close to "absolute" time, for the purposes of everyday timekeeping. Or a GPS, bought at a garage sale for five dollars, a tiny little thing but amazing technology that couldn't be built in that small a package (let alone imagined) forty years ago. Michael |
Then and now
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
... Yes, your chum's comment is Bovine excrement. Have you had a lover's tiff? With your habitual daily output of nasty childish remarks, it is hardly surprising that you have to go off at a complete tangent on clocks and watches to get anybody to talk to you. But how long will it be before you fall out big time with your new found friends and send for them to be arrested for daring to disagree with you on the Internet, as you have done so often to others in these NG? |
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