Spacecraft antennae
 

In dealing with zonal restrictions (Yank) and planning
permission (Brit) I wonder if there could be a way round
these limitations by emulating the antennae of spacecraft, by
which I mean ingenious ways to fold the whole thing up when
not in use?

(OK, I do understand that with spacecraft it is a one-way operation
of only unfolding.)

There have been designs published in Brit of using the steel of
wind-up tape measures, and this could be a potential starting point
for any discussion, by the use of flat metal tape.

(I did have once a hi power ATU that tuned the inductor by winding
a flat tape around a metallic drum.)

What I would envisage, although I do not have either the mechanical
or the mental wherewithal at the moment would be a telescopic
arrangement that compressed down to about 6 feet, but when fully
opened out (Perhaps as a flower unfolds from a bud?) would
be a 30 foot mast with the equivalent of a TA33Jr atop.

A worthwhile challenge or just another of my pipe dreams
(Vapourware as they have been unkindly christened in another NG)?

QST
 

In article ,
"gareth" wrote:

In dealing with zonal restrictions (Yank) and planning
permission (Brit) I wonder if there could be a way round
these limitations by emulating the antennae of spacecraft, by
which I mean ingenious ways to fold the whole thing up when
not in use?

(OK, I do understand that with spacecraft it is a one-way operation
of only unfolding.)

There have been designs published in Brit of using the steel of
wind-up tape measures, and this could be a potential starting point
for any discussion, by the use of flat metal tape.

(I did have once a hi power ATU that tuned the inductor by winding
a flat tape around a metallic drum.)

What I would envisage, although I do not have either the mechanical
or the mental wherewithal at the moment would be a telescopic
arrangement that compressed down to about 6 feet, but when fully
opened out (Perhaps as a flower unfolds from a bud?) would
be a 30 foot mast with the equivalent of a TA33Jr atop.

A worthwhile challenge or just another of my pipe dreams
(Vapourware as they have been unkindly christened in another NG)?

Gareth-

You do believe in aiming high! You may not end up with a TA33Jr, but
might find something else that works almost as well.

My approach is the "Octopus" antenna that was published in QST magazine
several years ago. It is a fan dipole made out of mobile whips mounted
on an electrical box. It just fits in my attic. It does not work well
on the lower frequencies, but I'm making lots of contacts on the higher
bands.

Speaking of tape measures, I have an old mil-surplus Hy-Gain Tape
Dipole. Two versions are described at http://www.n2ckh.com/HA4000.htm.

Also, for VHF and higher frequencies, spacecraft and aircraft often use
"patch" antennas that are mere lumps on their skin!

Fred
K4DII

QST
 

"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...

Speaking of tape measures, I have an old mil-surplus Hy-Gain Tape
Dipole. Two versions are described at http://www.n2ckh.com/HA4000.htm.

That's very interesting and also proving that there is nothing new under the
Sun!

I'll need to google for the Octopus, though

QST
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...

Speaking of tape measures, I have an old mil-surplus Hy-Gain Tape
Dipole. Two versions are described at http://www.n2ckh.com/HA4000.htm.

That's very interesting and also proving that there is nothing new under
the Sun!

I'll need to google for the Octopus, though

OK, found this ..
http://kc5our.com/wordpress/wp-conte...entation-1.pdf

QST
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...

Speaking of tape measures, I have an old mil-surplus Hy-Gain Tape
Dipole. Two versions are described at
http://www.n2ckh.com/HA4000.htm.

That's very interesting and also proving that there is nothing new under
the Sun!

I'll need to google for the Octopus, though

OK, found this ..
http://kc5our.com/wordpress/wp-conte...entation-1.pdf


Bad practice to repsond to my own posts, but is a Hamstick merely a plastic
tube with a loading coil wound around it, and then a whip antenna at one
end?

(I have on my desk plans to make a coil winding machine)

Spacecraft antennae
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:35:47 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

I wonder if there could be a way round
these limitations by emulating the antennae of spacecraft, by
which I mean ingenious ways to fold the whole thing up when
not in use?

I've been working on inflatable antennas and towers for several years.
Unfortunately, I don't have much to show for my efforts. Maybe by
next Field Day.

This is the current incantation of Bosch Aerospace:
http://www.ltaprojects.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8cxVcsOmrXv1d4aNaXoQCw
They sell on eBay.

For wire antennas, you might look into a tethered aerostat:
https://www.google.com/search?q=aerostat&tbm=isch
Just one problem... vertical HF antennas are not the best because of
the grounding requirements.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

QST
 

In article ,
"gareth" wrote:

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...

Speaking of tape measures, I have an old mil-surplus Hy-Gain Tape
Dipole. Two versions are described at
http://www.n2ckh.com/HA4000.htm.

That's very interesting and also proving that there is nothing new under
the Sun!

I'll need to google for the Octopus, though

OK, found this ..
http://kc5our.com/wordpress/wp-conte...-Antenna-Prese
ntation-1.pdf


Bad practice to repsond to my own posts, but is a Hamstick merely a plastic
tube with a loading coil wound around it, and then a whip antenna at one
end?

(I have on my desk plans to make a coil winding machine)

Gareth-

I replied to your message titled, "Spacecraft antennae". I do not know
how my reply became a new message titled, "QST".

That article on the Octopus Antenna is interesting. It is essentially
the same antenna described in QST, but construction is slightly
different. I suppose mine is a little different as well. For example,
I added a place for a vertical whip.

I currently use a 4 foot vertical whip to add a fifth band (10 Meters).
The ground whip for 20 Meters is a Hustler mast with the kit for extra
resonators. I use a 20 Meter resonator plus a 10 Meter resonator to
balance the vertical whip. The 4 foot vertical whip fits in the attic
with an inch to spare.

Even though it does not have whips for 12 or 17 Meters, it can be
matched with an LDG tuner. When those bands are open, I make contacts!

I believe your description of the Hamstick is correct.

Fred
K4DII

QST
 

Fred McKenzie wrote in news:fmmck-
:

I replied to your message titled, "Spacecraft antennae". I do not know
how my reply became a new message titled, "QST".


Xnews shows it in the same thread, depending on its thread ID or whatever
it's called. Maybe your client sorts only by subject title, though it might
have the option to do otherwise.

QST
 

Fred McKenzie wrote in news:fmmck-
:

I replied to your message titled, "Spacecraft antennae". I do not know
how my reply became a new message titled, "QST".


I just found another explanation. Ò^O
In Xnews, when I replied just now, I forgot to refresh before looking in
another group this thread is crossposted to. My reply showed up there, and
not here, because that group was the first one I saw the post in! It won't
now appear here (for me) unless I fiddle about with Xnews to make it so.

QST
 

On 8/28/2014 8:02 AM, Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Fred McKenzie wrote in news:fmmck-
:

I replied to your message titled, "Spacecraft antennae". I do not know
how my reply became a new message titled, "QST".


I just found another explanation. Ò^O
In Xnews, when I replied just now, I forgot to refresh before looking in
another group this thread is crossposted to. My reply showed up there, and
not here, because that group was the first one I saw the post in! It won't
now appear here (for me) unless I fiddle about with Xnews to make it so.


Your message shows up just fine in both newsgroups.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

QST
 

Jerry Stuckle wrote in news:ltn6p0$fbt$2@dont-
email.me:

Your message shows up just fine in both newsgroups.


Gets posted to both. :) Some clients, like Xnews, will have a setting to show
it only once, the first time it is read regardless of which group that is.
This, and the subject change, are both likely candidates to explain the
behaviour seen. There may be more. :)

Spacecraft antennae
 

"gareth" wrote in news:lthnu9$ilc$1@dont-
email.me:

There have been designs published in Brit of using the steel of
wind-up tape measures, and this could be a potential starting point
for any discussion, by the use of flat metal tape.


I suspect my notion is not new, but what about a coil of wire, some well-
spaced trees, a long lanyard, a tennis ball, and a spud gun?

Someone will likely have one they prepared earlier, so I won't put the bits
together. :)

Spacecraft antennae
 

"Lostgallifreyan" wrote in message
. ..
"gareth" wrote in news:lthnu9$ilc$1@dont-
email.me:
There have been designs published in Brit of using the steel of
wind-up tape measures, and this could be a potential starting point
for any discussion, by the use of flat metal tape.
I suspect my notion is not new, but what about a coil of wire, some well-
spaced trees, a long lanyard, a tennis ball, and a spud gun?
Someone will likely have one they prepared earlier, so I won't put the
bits
together. :)

A well-tried and tested solution to one problem, but I'd be interested in a
structure that when you go QRT, you could then retract it back.

Spacecraft antennae
 

On 8/28/2014 12:53 PM, gareth wrote:
"Lostgallifreyan" wrote in message
. ..
"gareth" wrote in news:lthnu9$ilc$1@dont-
email.me:
There have been designs published in Brit of using the steel of
wind-up tape measures, and this could be a potential starting point
for any discussion, by the use of flat metal tape.
I suspect my notion is not new, but what about a coil of wire, some well-
spaced trees, a long lanyard, a tennis ball, and a spud gun?
Someone will likely have one they prepared earlier, so I won't put the
bits
together. :)

A well-tried and tested solution to one problem, but I'd be interested in a
structure that when you go QRT, you could then retract it back.



The problem is that, even if it is retractable, the antenna would still
be in violation of any covenants the home owner's association has (the
FCC has basically preempted most zoning laws for aesthetic reasons here
- although courts have interpreted it differently).

An interesting idea, however. Maybe if you just put it up from 1AM to
3AM you could get away with it :)

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

QST
 

"gareth" wrote in message ...

"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...

Speaking of tape measures, I have an old mil-surplus Hy-Gain Tape
Dipole. Two versions are described at http://www.n2ckh.com/HA4000.htm.

That's very interesting and also proving that there is nothing new under
the Sun!

I'll need to google for the Octopus, though

I agree with Fred that while wanting a beam at a decent height, there may be
some acceptable lower performance alternatives.
At least you could use some of those while still pursuing the optimum.

I've had good luck with an attic loop antenna strung around the rafters and
fed with a tuner.
I haven't had a loop large enough to use on 40 and below, but it worked fine
on 20 and above.

Currently, I use a 14 foot whip mounted on top of a rather large metal patio
cover. It is fed with about 20 feed of RG-8 and a tuner.
Performance is not bad on 20 and above.
I can manually insert a coil to use it on 40 or 80. It is "ok" on 40 and
not so good on 80.

I have a friend who uses a Butternut vertical. It is on a tilt base, and he
keeps it lowered when not in use. His homeowner association has agreed to
that arrangement because it is considered "temporary" instead of permanent.

Good luck.

Spacecraft antennae
 

On 8/26/2014 6:35 AM, gareth wrote:
In dealing with zonal restrictions (Yank) and planning
permission (Brit) I wonder if there could be a way round
these limitations by emulating the antennae of spacecraft, by
which I mean ingenious ways to fold the whole thing up when
not in use?...

That is an interesting concept.. however there are several things.. I
would worry about the neighborhood busy body seeing it when it is
deployed and filing a complaint cause, Well, that is what busy bodies
do. And of course you would still get blamed for all the television
issues even if you are not on the air when it happens.. I know of one
ham who was so blamed by a woman who said "See, you are doing it now" he
was standing beside her, not in his radio room (BTW he did figure out
where the TVI was coming from.... HER (Well a heating pad she used)).

How about being patriotic and flying the American Flag,, say from a 43
foot pole in your front yard.. a 40 foot METAL pole, with an insulator
and some other stuff at the base.. In a box (one of those things being a
spot or flood light that projects up to the flag in case you wish to fly
at night).

Seems this might solve the problem as well. (Stealth antenna doubles
as a flag pole)

That said, there are some places where even flying the flag is frowned
upon.. If the neighbors complain about a flag pole.. Call the Marines.

--
Home, is where I park it.

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